Discussion
Well I made it about 90 miles and the bottom end developed a horrible knock. To say I'm gutted is an understatement. I am not a wealthy chap and I worked long and hard to be able to afford the engine rebuild, so for this to happen after just 3 or 4 thousand miles is pretty devastating. Obviously no-one died and it's a first world problem etc, but I just don't have any luck with this M3, unless it's bad.
So, the car is back at ARM and I'm waiting for them to whip the sump off and take a look. I have a suspicion that I know what may have caused this but it wouldn't be right to say anything until I know for sure.
Anyone want to buy an E30 M3?
So, the car is back at ARM and I'm waiting for them to whip the sump off and take a look. I have a suspicion that I know what may have caused this but it wouldn't be right to say anything until I know for sure.
Anyone want to buy an E30 M3?
stevesingo said:
O rings missing from chain tensioner rail?
Too much ign advance?
I really don't know to be honest. Since first having the car/engine back I had put around 2000 - 2200 miles on it, which included a couple of short sessions at Brands Hatch. I changed the oil after that, although I never leave the oil and filter changes more than 2 or 3 months anyway. Everything seemed OK, although I hadn't seen a dyno sheet and when questioned about power output the reply was pretty vague. I have to say that whilst performance was certainly improved I was a little underwhelmed. Too much ign advance?
Fast forward a few weeks and whilst in for the alternator mounting bush failing, it became clear that the FSE fuel pressure regulator was playing up. I had noticed an intermittent idle fluctuation and I imagine this was a sign of the fuel pressure not being constant? Anyway, Jenvey supplied a 3 bar FPR and it soon became clear that the fuelling was way too rich now, so it went back for mapping again. It came back with the fuelling adjusted but an idle of 1100 rpm. There was still no dyno sheet though and when I asked how much power was being made and at what RPM etc, I told that ''chasing numbers was a mugs game'' and when pushed I was told that power was ''200 and something as I don't pay much, if any, attention to the max figures''. The higher than expected idle was explained thus ''The 1100-1200 tickover is stable and clean, any lower, speed fluctuates and the fuel drop out makes it very inconsistent. It's a function of the exhaust/cam combination primarily''.
Since the second (not cheap!) mapping session there has been intermittent hot starting issues and I have changed the plugs twice due to their being a little sooty / fouling. Ironically, as my repeated requests for a dyno printout went nowhere, I was going to drop in on Paul Sheppard at Circuit Motors yesterday, so that a power run could be done. Ideally, I would have preferred to be able to use the same dyno and compare with before the rebuild but I was at a point where the lack of printout told me far more. So, yesterday, with a fresh oil change, new plugs and a tank of V power I set off along the A30. All seemed OK and I was going along at about 75 - 80 mph. After an hour or so there was a bit of a stutter from the engine but oil pressure was fine, no smoking and it seemed to clear. A few minutes later, still nothing untoward on the gauges, no warning light, no smoke but the unmistakable knock of the bottom end letting go. I dipped the clutch, the engine died and I saw the temp' gauge was higher than usual. I have to say, it sounded pretty terminal. I pulled over and rang the RAC (I should have them on speed dial really) but whilst waiting I popped the bonnet to see if there was anything untoward? If honest, the bay did feel hotter than usual but there had definitely not been any warning light and the coolant level was spot on. I dipped the oil, which was to the upper level, but it wasn't the clear, golden colour I expected on fresh engine oil. There were no obvious metal filings either. The only other thing I noted was the exhaust tailpipe, which I had cleaned the day before, but was now dirty with soot which suggests to me that it was still running rich?
So, hopefully the sump will come off tomorrow and we can see where we are at. The only thing I feel confident about right now, is that nobody is going to be throwing their hands in the air saying the failure is down to them! I don't know enough to be able to say whether the crank is now knackered but if it is, a new one is £1300 (or a months wages). Obviously there will then be new bearings, bolts, gaskets etc. In truth, I could barely find the money to rebuild the s14 once, let alone twice in 3 months. The only other option might be that I sell the engine, carbon airbox, DTA, dogleg gearbox etc and convert to run an s54?
Any advice would be welcome. I know it's only a car but I'm gutted that it's back in the workshop again.
ETA *just to be clear that the mapping & engine build wasn't done by ARM*
Edited by e30m3Mark on Sunday 29th October 08:30
e30m3Mark said:
I really don't know to be honest. Since first having the car/engine back I had put around 2000 - 2200 miles on it, which included a couple of short sessions at Brands Hatch.
Do you have additional baffles in the sump and did you top up your oil to the first kink on the dipstick? e30m3Mark said:
I changed the oil after that, although I never leave the oil and filter changes more than 2 or 3 months anyway. Everything seemed OK, although I hadn't seen a dyno sheet and when questioned about power output the reply was pretty vague. I have to say that whilst performance was certainly improved I was a little underwhelmed.
Easy to say in hindsight, but as a paying customer, when asking for a service you should be specific in what you want from them. Don't pay them unless they deliver.e30m3Mark said:
Fast forward a few weeks and whilst in for the alternator mounting bush failing, it became clear that the FSE fuel pressure regulator was playing up. I had noticed an intermittent idle fluctuation and I imagine this was a sign of the fuel pressure not being constant? Anyway, Jenvey supplied a 3 bar FPR and it soon became clear that the fuelling was way too rich now, so it went back for mapping again. It came back with the fuelling adjusted but an idle of 1100 rpm. There was still no dyno sheet though and when I asked how much power was being made and at what RPM etc, I told that ''chasing numbers was a mugs game'' and when pushed I was told that power was ''200 and something as I don't pay much, if any, attention to the max figures''. The higher than expected idle was explained thus ''The 1100-1200 tickover is stable and clean, any lower, speed fluctuates and the fuel drop out makes it very inconsistent. It's a function of the exhaust/cam combination primarily''.
So, if you changed FPR to a 3 bar regulator and the car went rich? That would imply that fuel pressure was lower than 3bar with the old regulator.RE Power; What is the point of having a measuring tool when you don't pass on the results?
RE idles speed excuses; my engine on 292/284 cams idles solid at 950rpm. It sounds like they have struggled to get it right and just jacked on it.
e30m3Mark said:
Since the second (not cheap!) mapping session there has been intermittent hot starting issues and I have changed the plugs twice due to their being a little sooty / fouling. Ironically, as my repeated requests for a dyno printout went nowhere, I was going to drop in on Paul Sheppard at Circuit Motors yesterday, so that a power run could be done. Ideally, I would have preferred to be able to use the same dyno and compare with before the rebuild but I was at a point where the lack of printout told me far more. So, yesterday, with a fresh oil change, new plugs and a tank of V power I set off along the A30. All seemed OK and I was going along at about 75 - 80 mph. After an hour or so there was a bit of a stutter from the engine but oil pressure was fine, no smoking and it seemed to clear. A few minutes later, still nothing untoward on the gauges, no warning light, no smoke but the unmistakable knock of the bottom end letting go. I dipped the clutch, the engine died and I saw the temp' gauge was higher than usual. I have to say, it sounded pretty terminal. I pulled over and rang the RAC (I should have them on speed dial really) but whilst waiting I popped the bonnet to see if there was anything untoward? If honest, the bay did feel hotter than usual but there had definitely not been any warning light and the coolant level was spot on. I dipped the oil, which was to the upper level, but it wasn't the clear, golden colour I expected on fresh engine oil. There were no obvious metal filings either. The only other thing I noted was the exhaust tailpipe, which I had cleaned the day before, but was now dirty with soot which suggests to me that it was still running rich?
It does sound like the mapping is not what it should be. This can cause some slight issues and it can cause some major issues. As you were only cruising, there would not be a significant load on the engine. You could be over advanced at part throttle which put unnecessary load through the big ends, but at a cruise, the ign adv would need to be a long way out.e30m3Mark said:
So, hopefully the sump will come off tomorrow and we can see where we are at. The only thing I feel confident about right now, is that nobody is going to be throwing their hands in the air saying the failure is down to them! I don't know enough to be able to say whether the crank is now knackered but if it is, a new one is £1300 (or a months wages). Obviously there will then be new bearings, bolts, gaskets etc. In truth, I could barely find the money to rebuild the s14 once, let alone twice in 3 months. The only other option might be that I sell the engine, carbon airbox, DTA, dogleg gearbox etc and convert to run an s54?
Any advice would be welcome. I know it's only a car but I'm gutted that it's back in the workshop again.
ETA *just to be clear that the mapping & engine build wasn't done by ARM*
The big issue is responsibility. Is the car now at the same place who built the engine and mapped it? I would be very wary of having them do their own home work.Any advice would be welcome. I know it's only a car but I'm gutted that it's back in the workshop again.
ETA *just to be clear that the mapping & engine build wasn't done by ARM*
Edited by e30m3Mark on Sunday 29th October 08:30
What ECU and can you download a copy of the map? Does the ECU log and can you download it?
Do you have oil pressure guage, what was it reading on failure?
Do you have fuel pressure guage, what was it reading on failure?
Also you need to confirm that item 15 (2 off) are present.
http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E30-2-doors/Euro...
Dropped you a mail.
Yes, baffled 'big wing'' sump and oil was up to top mark.
If honest, I assumed I would get a dyno sheet and was initially told the only reason I didn't was because the printer was out of ink. It was when I kept asking that the excuses started.
The original FPR was adjustable and was told it was fine. It subsequently failed but, as you say, it can't have been making 3 bar or else the map wouldn't have been so far out when the new one was fitted.
I was just baffled that anyone mapping an engine wouldn't take note of the power figure, even if they didn't print it off. He now says he didn't even save the results.
ECU is a DTA Pro 40.
http://www.dtafast.co.uk/dta_products/s40pro-ecu/
Oil pressure was 60+ but I don't have a fuel pressure gauge.
ARM didn't do the engine build or mapping (they rent him the dyno) but the car is there now.
If honest, I assumed I would get a dyno sheet and was initially told the only reason I didn't was because the printer was out of ink. It was when I kept asking that the excuses started.
The original FPR was adjustable and was told it was fine. It subsequently failed but, as you say, it can't have been making 3 bar or else the map wouldn't have been so far out when the new one was fitted.
I was just baffled that anyone mapping an engine wouldn't take note of the power figure, even if they didn't print it off. He now says he didn't even save the results.
ECU is a DTA Pro 40.
http://www.dtafast.co.uk/dta_products/s40pro-ecu/
Oil pressure was 60+ but I don't have a fuel pressure gauge.
ARM didn't do the engine build or mapping (they rent him the dyno) but the car is there now.
The engine builder is going to examine the engine with me later in the week and the oil has been saved for analysis. Evidently the ECU is PIN locked? I've messaged the mapper and said I want to download the map and any info recorded.
A couple of days on and I'm still gutted. My car has spent so much of the past 2 years in the workshop and here we are back there again, looking at the potential for another bloody great bill.
A couple of days on and I'm still gutted. My car has spent so much of the past 2 years in the workshop and here we are back there again, looking at the potential for another bloody great bill.
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