Discussion
Matter88 said:
Sorry to read of yet more rotten luck.
As someone who has had engines fail and sold cars as a result (& subsequently regretted it), I'd advise that you take a step back and properly consider your options.
I.E you already own the car, admittedly it doesn't run now. Get it home, throw a sheet over it and let your financials recoup. Whilst it's parked, it's not costing anything. Then make your plan to use someone for both engine work & mapping who has a solid reputation specifically on S14's, and ask them if they'd work on it slow time.
Personally, I wouldn't let anyone other than Chipwizards map any car of mine. Both my M3's were mapped there, and both have been used for proper cruel competition use with no issues. Both are JC Racing built engines.
Don't rush to sell because you can't afford the repair right now - cover it up, take a breath and make a new plan with some new providers.
Just my 2p.
EDIT: without wishing to sound like too much of a JC fanboy, they charge £350 per cylinder to rebuild a motor, plus parts. If you've gotten away lightly, the bill could be as low as £2500-3000 VAT inclusive provided you don't allow scope creep to come in. As someone who has had engines fail and sold cars as a result (& subsequently regretted it), I'd advise that you take a step back and properly consider your options.
I.E you already own the car, admittedly it doesn't run now. Get it home, throw a sheet over it and let your financials recoup. Whilst it's parked, it's not costing anything. Then make your plan to use someone for both engine work & mapping who has a solid reputation specifically on S14's, and ask them if they'd work on it slow time.
Personally, I wouldn't let anyone other than Chipwizards map any car of mine. Both my M3's were mapped there, and both have been used for proper cruel competition use with no issues. Both are JC Racing built engines.
Don't rush to sell because you can't afford the repair right now - cover it up, take a breath and make a new plan with some new providers.
Just my 2p.
Matter88 said:
EDIT: without wishing to sound like too much of a JC fanboy, they charge £350 per cylinder to rebuild a motor, plus parts. If you've gotten away lightly, the bill could be as low as £2500-3000 VAT inclusive provided you don't allow scope creep to come in.
Some good advice there. I have helped out at a competition engine builders near JC for some 14 years now and we work with them rather often. Russ and my boss are good friends and their work is great.Chipwizards is sound advice too, my car will be going to Wayne once it's up and running.
I'll fire you a PM, Mark.
Thanks,
Scott
scottos said:
Matter88 said:
EDIT: without wishing to sound like too much of a JC fanboy, they charge £350 per cylinder to rebuild a motor, plus parts. If you've gotten away lightly, the bill could be as low as £2500-3000 VAT inclusive provided you don't allow scope creep to come in.
Some good advice there. I have helped out at a competition engine builders near JC for some 14 years now and we work with them rather often. Russ and my boss are good friends and their work is great.Chipwizards is sound advice too, my car will be going to Wayne once it's up and running.
I'll fire you a PM, Mark.
Thanks,
Scott
^^^ These are the sort of people you NEED to be working with (regardless of geography) when you're spending £1,000's on old cars.
I've spent a long time going through this thread (most of my day).
Gone from elation, to depression, elation, depression, elation back to depression. Gutted for you after all the money you have spent on the car. I think it is worth persevering with, it looks absolutely spot on.
Good luck!
Gone from elation, to depression, elation, depression, elation back to depression. Gutted for you after all the money you have spent on the car. I think it is worth persevering with, it looks absolutely spot on.
Good luck!
Appreciate all the well wishes chaps.
I'm still waiting on the engine builder so don't know the full extent of the damage yet. I'm hoping I have a buyer for my 325ti, as that would certainly make a useful contribution to the parts bill, but it's hard to stay motivated when the car spends so long in the workshop and I don't even get to enjoy it.
First though, I will wait and see what the builder says and then I will take things from there.
I'm still waiting on the engine builder so don't know the full extent of the damage yet. I'm hoping I have a buyer for my 325ti, as that would certainly make a useful contribution to the parts bill, but it's hard to stay motivated when the car spends so long in the workshop and I don't even get to enjoy it.
First though, I will wait and see what the builder says and then I will take things from there.
e30m3Mark said:
Appreciate all the well wishes chaps.
I'm still waiting on the engine builder so don't know the full extent of the damage yet. I'm hoping I have a buyer for my 325ti, as that would certainly make a useful contribution to the parts bill, but it's hard to stay motivated when the car spends so long in the workshop and I don't even get to enjoy it.
First though, I will wait and see what the builder says and then I will take things from there.
Admire your determination MarkI'm still waiting on the engine builder so don't know the full extent of the damage yet. I'm hoping I have a buyer for my 325ti, as that would certainly make a useful contribution to the parts bill, but it's hard to stay motivated when the car spends so long in the workshop and I don't even get to enjoy it.
First though, I will wait and see what the builder says and then I will take things from there.
Really can't imagine how fed up you must be
Certainly if funds are short at present I'd do as suggested and park it under a sheet till you can afford another build.......rather than sell it
You've come a long way with all the other work and prices are still going up if you sold it .....and then wanted to buy another one
Lottery win aside, I would never be in a position to buy another. I consider myself very lucky to have this one (especially as SWMBO hates the thing with a passion! 
) and am fortunate that I don't have kids etc to pay for, so can use whatever disposable income I have, as I see fit. Whilst it's been a pretty s
te week, these are very much first world problems and sometimes I need to remind myself of that.
Anyway, I dopped in at ARM and they're hoping to hear back from builder today. He collected the engine yesterday in order to give a thorough inspection. It's clear that there has been a lot of premature wear to all the bearings though, as it resembles an engine that has done 100k miles and not the 30 hours running that the ECU shows.
I'd been looking forward to just enjoying the M3 this summer. Oh well. Many thanks for the support and those of you that have mailed me. I really do appreciate it. All the advice is much appreciated also and I will make some decisions on how I plan to proceed once I know the full extent of the damage. Meanwhile, the Compact will hopefully go this weekend and I can get the crank and feel like I'm making some progress again.
) and am fortunate that I don't have kids etc to pay for, so can use whatever disposable income I have, as I see fit. Whilst it's been a pretty ste week, these are very much first world problems and sometimes I need to remind myself of that.Anyway, I dopped in at ARM and they're hoping to hear back from builder today. He collected the engine yesterday in order to give a thorough inspection. It's clear that there has been a lot of premature wear to all the bearings though, as it resembles an engine that has done 100k miles and not the 30 hours running that the ECU shows.
I'd been looking forward to just enjoying the M3 this summer. Oh well. Many thanks for the support and those of you that have mailed me. I really do appreciate it. All the advice is much appreciated also and I will make some decisions on how I plan to proceed once I know the full extent of the damage. Meanwhile, the Compact will hopefully go this weekend and I can get the crank and feel like I'm making some progress again.
As previously mentioned by another poster. Assuming the engine builder can actually build and engine and the crank was correctly sized for the shells this could well be be an ignition over advanced issue.
Is it the big end or main shells that have the excessive wear?
Assuming my head is screwed on after a very long week... If its mainly the upper big end shell, that would lead me to think it is a over advance issue hammering the big ends when the rod hasn't past TDC far enough. The lower mains with more wear than the upper would also link to this.
Is it the big end or main shells that have the excessive wear?
Assuming my head is screwed on after a very long week... If its mainly the upper big end shell, that would lead me to think it is a over advance issue hammering the big ends when the rod hasn't past TDC far enough. The lower mains with more wear than the upper would also link to this.
Extremely frustrating to read this again Mark.
With regards paying for a rebuild again, could you mothball the car for a few months while you get some funds together to pay for it?
As an aside is it worth digging out another S14 engine and trying your arm with that one? I'm wondering if there's something fundamentally amiss with the one you've got, as the build quality sounds decent (hardly a shed bodge).
With regards paying for a rebuild again, could you mothball the car for a few months while you get some funds together to pay for it?
As an aside is it worth digging out another S14 engine and trying your arm with that one? I'm wondering if there's something fundamentally amiss with the one you've got, as the build quality sounds decent (hardly a shed bodge).
Right now I'm not going to name the builder here, although they are reputable and experienced. I just think it would be unfair until we know exactly what went wrong and I don't want anything to be misconstrued and taken as me apportioning blame.
I've made a few calls this morning and spoken with half a dozen engine shops, with previous experience of building s14 for competition, just to get some general opinions / previous experiences as to why oil pressure might suddenly be lost without prior warning? Pretty much all of them said they would suspect crankshaft issues. Especially as it has had a .75mm regrind. In fact, a couple said that they would either a) simply not use a reground crank in an s14, b) not go beyond .5mm or c) never use a reground crank on track. I also spoke to Russ (at JC Racing) who was incredibly helpful. It was he who initially suggested the premature bearing wear pointed at the crankshaft bending.
As an aside, were I ever to replace the s14 engine I would most likely go s54. In truth though, the s14 is what the E30 M3 is about for me. I know I've been unlucky but they're usually awesome engines and their character helps make the E30 M3 so special. Bottom line is I am going to find a way to get through this. I'll most likely have to work 60 hour weeks for the foreseeable but at least I have that option open to me.
I've made a few calls this morning and spoken with half a dozen engine shops, with previous experience of building s14 for competition, just to get some general opinions / previous experiences as to why oil pressure might suddenly be lost without prior warning? Pretty much all of them said they would suspect crankshaft issues. Especially as it has had a .75mm regrind. In fact, a couple said that they would either a) simply not use a reground crank in an s14, b) not go beyond .5mm or c) never use a reground crank on track. I also spoke to Russ (at JC Racing) who was incredibly helpful. It was he who initially suggested the premature bearing wear pointed at the crankshaft bending.
As an aside, were I ever to replace the s14 engine I would most likely go s54. In truth though, the s14 is what the E30 M3 is about for me. I know I've been unlucky but they're usually awesome engines and their character helps make the E30 M3 so special. Bottom line is I am going to find a way to get through this. I'll most likely have to work 60 hour weeks for the foreseeable but at least I have that option open to me.
e30m3Mark said:
Right now I'm not going to name the builder here, although they are reputable and experienced. I just think it would be unfair until we know exactly what went wrong and I don't want anything to be misconstrued and taken as me apportioning blame.
I've made a few calls this morning and spoken with half a dozen engine shops, with previous experience of building s14 for competition, just to get some general opinions / previous experiences as to why oil pressure might suddenly be lost without prior warning? Pretty much all of them said they would suspect crankshaft issues. Especially as it has had a .75mm regrind. In fact, a couple said that they would either a) simply not use a reground crank in an s14, b) not go beyond .5mm or c) never use a reground crank on track. I also spoke to Russ (at JC Racing) who was incredibly helpful. It was he who initially suggested the premature bearing wear pointed at the crankshaft bending.
As an aside, were I ever to replace the s14 engine I would most likely go s54. In truth though, the s14 is what the E30 M3 is about for me. I know I've been unlucky but they're usually awesome engines and their character helps make the E30 M3 so special. Bottom line is I am going to find a way to get through this. I'll most likely have to work 60 hour weeks for the foreseeable but at least I have that option open to me.
Great to hear that you've decided to keep fighting on.I've made a few calls this morning and spoken with half a dozen engine shops, with previous experience of building s14 for competition, just to get some general opinions / previous experiences as to why oil pressure might suddenly be lost without prior warning? Pretty much all of them said they would suspect crankshaft issues. Especially as it has had a .75mm regrind. In fact, a couple said that they would either a) simply not use a reground crank in an s14, b) not go beyond .5mm or c) never use a reground crank on track. I also spoke to Russ (at JC Racing) who was incredibly helpful. It was he who initially suggested the premature bearing wear pointed at the crankshaft bending.
As an aside, were I ever to replace the s14 engine I would most likely go s54. In truth though, the s14 is what the E30 M3 is about for me. I know I've been unlucky but they're usually awesome engines and their character helps make the E30 M3 so special. Bottom line is I am going to find a way to get through this. I'll most likely have to work 60 hour weeks for the foreseeable but at least I have that option open to me.
I'm surprised that the S14 crank is that close to it's limit that it can't cope with a regrind. For full on racing I can understand that when you're pushing the limit in every area then its the tiny percentages that cause a failure.
But for a fast road car, with a dozen trackday laps......? I have no experience of the S14 but, well I'm surprised that the crank is that close to its limit.
Still, if this is the issue it's a fairly simple (albeit expensive) fix to stop a re-occurrence. Does anyone make a crank for the S14 or is it a case of hunting down an OE one?
Fortunately I have made a few excellent contacts (here especially) who run s14's and Kirby (www.c3bmw.co.uk) has a stock 2.3 crank which I will be getting once my 325ti is sold.
It seems the problem (and this info is just what I have been told and I'm no engineer) is due in the most part, to the loss of the nitriding due to machining? You can have it redone but it doesn't work particularly well becuae of the need to get the tolerance so close for the bearing, if that makes sense? Hopefully someone with a brain can explain more fully?
It seems the problem (and this info is just what I have been told and I'm no engineer) is due in the most part, to the loss of the nitriding due to machining? You can have it redone but it doesn't work particularly well becuae of the need to get the tolerance so close for the bearing, if that makes sense? Hopefully someone with a brain can explain more fully?
helix402 said:
Lots of cranks out there:
My sump came from VAC and once you add import duty and shipping costs, to an already expensive part, the cost becomes prohibitive. I do know someone with a brand new crank (that's already here) but it's a months wages.Edited by e30m3Mark on Friday 25th May 17:13
Well I've spent a good few hours researching s14 crankshafts and potential reasons for failure. As a result I'm pretty much convinced that regrinding my original crank was where my problems started.
So, am going with a stock 2.3 crank but have been wondering what the potential gains would be were I to go 2.5?
Am also wondering what (if anything) I can do to improve my oil pan? Can I do something to stop oil surge under braking?
So, am going with a stock 2.3 crank but have been wondering what the potential gains would be were I to go 2.5?
Am also wondering what (if anything) I can do to improve my oil pan? Can I do something to stop oil surge under braking?
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