1998 Mercedes-Benz CL420 (C140)

[mwstewart]

Jack is a good hand but I am used to paying between £125 and £130 if the leather in stock. £175 is starting to sound a little high. I use a retired chap; ex Bentley Crewe from the days when the majority of trim was made by hand. Latterly he and other experienced trimmers were put on to special projects or attending to factory defects. I can't fault his work.

If you are interested I will contact him tomorrow to see if he would like to take on additional work alongside the grandkids and current backlog.

[honevo]

If he is still in the Crewe area or thereabouts, I would be interested although the issue in my case would be sourcing a matching hide...

[tobinen]

honevo said:

This is mine (before it sat up and begged)

Nice car honevo. Thanks for your post regarding springs. They're a bloody pain.

The way I see it I have two options:

1. Take a punt on my 2015 invoice and order the same part number, in the hope it is correct and accurate (or equivalent from Autodoc for a 6-cylinder saloon). The pair is £100 with discount from CP4L.
2. Ask the garage to cut the springs I have (he mentioned it but I don't think he was overly keen on the idea).

I'll call the garage and sound him out first.

Do you know what SACHS part number you had fitted? Thanks

[honevo]

No - I left it to the garage when they serviced the car and by the time the fouling of the wheel arch became a real problem, the 2 year guarantee had expired.
I got some assistance via MBClub.co.uk - see my new member’s thread - advice was similar to here but still useful.
I also called on on Mark of MCP restorations (although he specialises in W126 models) who suggested cutting them down but I would not be happy with this from a safety perspective and what if they are cut too much or unequally...?
It seems to be a common issue with no clear resolution.
I was going to ask my garage to order the equivalent springs for the rear so that they will at least all match but that could be exacerbating the issue if they are also incorrect although you would expect Mercedes to supply the correct part assuming my garage ordered correctly - I trust my garage but he just tells me that they will settle ( this may partly be because they are such a pain to fit...)
I now get the impression that he dreads my call s but every time so look at the car, it seems wrong and then I wonder if it will affect tyre wear/ handling...
On top of that, the rear view mirror has gone floppy again - he bonded a part to repair it. So now I have to tell him about that.
The driver’s door mirror was repaired as that had also worked loose but I then fiddled with it to make sure that it was a solid fix and worked on power fold that it has managed to work loose again.
It seems that the more one does to address issues, the more arise!!
Let me know what you do to resolve the spring saga and I will do likewise
I will take a photo once it’s back from my bodywork man who has done a good job so far but is an ex MMA world champ who I am probably going to annoy with my requests!!

[tobinen]

Springs never settle in my experience and I have had to replace them on every MB I have had. They're correct or not at the time of fitment.

The SACHS rear springs I had fitted seem OK, if anything a touch lower but acceptable.

Rear springs are NLS from MB for mine so probably for yours if you have 2 red paint marks.

[Prinny]

Honevo, if you’re only on the Wirral, talk to Jack from here: https://www.autotrimltd.co.uk/. (Stockport).

Did a fantastic job on my SL seat bolsters, for a good price too.


(sorry Tobinen. )

[honevo]

Thanks Prinny - may be worth a trip...
I’ll contact him

[nullogik]

tobinen said:

The way I see it I have two options:

1. Take a punt on my 2015 invoice and order the same part number, in the hope it is correct and accurate (or equivalent from Autodoc for a 6-cylinder saloon). The pair is £100 with discount from CP4L.
2. Ask the garage to cut the springs I have (he mentioned it but I don't think he was overly keen on the idea).

There is the third option of changing out the springs pads and retaining the current springs as I mentioned on the previous page. How much do you think you need to reduce the ride height by to get close to stock? What pads do you currently have in the car? Get them measured. There may be enough variation in pad size to achieve what you are looking for by going down a few sizes (assuming you haven't got the thinest pads already fitted).

tobinen said:

The SACHS rear springs I had fitted seem OK, if anything a touch lower but acceptable.

Go up a size of spring pad assuming you haven't already got the thickest ones installed.

I would try and work with what you have and what you know the ride height to be with the different springs fitted (set 1 and set 2) and seeing if you can make those work as opposed to gambling on yet another set of springs and labour costs for which the outcome is completely unknown which now in our collective experience (yours, mine and Honevo) highly likely to produce the wrong ride height anyway if aftermarket Sachs.

Did you try the Classic Centre in Germany for a part number? MB UK are useless. Like minded enthusiasts in the Classic Centre might be more open to spending more time researching your query as they are used to dealing with owners who are particular on details like with nut-and-bolt restorations. Generic MB UK call handlers probably weren't born when your car was sold and couldn't care less as its just "an old car" to them.

Edited by nullogik on Thursday 15th April 14:41

[nullogik]

honevo said:

I also called on on Mark of MCP restorations (although he specialises in W126 models) who suggested cutting them down but I would not be happy with this from a safety perspective and what if they are cut too much or unequally...?

I'd agree that cutting springs is not a good thing to do safety-wise.

honevo said:

I was going to ask my garage to order the equivalent springs for the rear so that they will at least all match but that could be exacerbating the issue if they are also incorrect although you would expect Mercedes to supply the correct part assuming my garage ordered correctly

I'm surprised MB springs haven't worked for you and tobinen. Something is terribly wrong, either the dealer has miscalculated the number of points using the spring calculator and order the wrong ones or the springs have been made incorrectly by MB to the wrong spec. There is no reason why MB springs should not achieve a factory ride height unless the car has aftermarket mods that affect the sprung weight.

honevo said:

I trust my garage but he just tells me that they will settle

In my experience springs will settle by a tiny bit but not significantly. If it looks very wrong after fitting such that it looks like its on stilts then it is not going to settle enough to make up the difference. If its a couple of millimeters too high then yes it is possible it will settle just that little bit enough to make a difference, beyond that I doubt it.

honevo said:

On top of that, the rear view mirror has gone floppy again - he bonded a part to repair it.

A common problem both on W140 and R129 that share the same mirror. Lots of DIY threads on Benzworld, particularly the R129 section, about using bits of wire or cable ties inside to hold it in place and make it more rigid.

honevo said:

The driver’s door mirror was repaired as that had also worked loose but I then fiddled with it to make sure that it was a solid fix and worked on power fold that it has managed to work loose again.

Is it slightly floppy? Chances are the metal bracket has fractured inside again a common problem on all W140s. I ordered a set of these:
http://www.hongmei.com.tw/shop/power-mirror-inner-...

Have done the passenger mirror which was a struggle a few years ago and took a good few hours but was do-able. Here is a similar thread on Benzworld:
https://www.benzworld.org/threads/rebuilding-my-mi...

honevo said:

I will take a photo once it’s back from my bodywork man

Yes, would be interested to see how high it is sitting.

Edited by nullogik on Thursday 15th April 14:57

[honevo]

Thanks for all this - the car is having some paint rectified at the moment (due to the front tyre fouling the wheel arch after the wing was refabricated) and hopefully the parking sensor system will start working again with the fitment of a replacement sensor sourced from W140 however I have learned not to be hopeful as I am inevitably disappointed when the car is returned and issues unresolved.....

I can't work out the spring issue - the stance of the car is now at the other extreme.
I appreciate now that the springs work on a points system which takes into account the weight of the car and ancillaries but I would have thought that you cannot get much heavier than a W140 with a 5.0 litre engine so why is it sitting too high ?- I was so looking forward to it being just right once the expensive OEM springs were fitted and now I spend my time looking at the car from different angles wondering what to do next....

I will post a photo once I get the car back

Edited by honevo on Thursday 15th April 19:20

[tobinen]

I think the main issue is that there are only two part numbers still available from MB and the lack of information of the specifications. Compare my earlier post on the list of front spring part numbers; they're all dead bar two. AMG springs? Forget it, all NLS.

What annoys me most is that I have the colour codes on the original springs and MB can match them but there are way over height. Perhaps something changed in the manufacture, but I don't know.

I am slowly accepting that a 23-year-old car which sold in low numbers has limited parts from MB. However what grates is that I have the colour codes and instead of MB saying they're NLS and sort yourself out, it has supplied wrong height springs under the 'that's all that is left' excuse. wkers.

The shims is an interesting angle but the difference between maximum and minimum is 18mm. I am way over that margin.

[Stegel]

tobinen said:

.

The shims is an interesting angle but the difference between maximum and minimum is 18mm. I am way over that margin.

I would certainly look at spring pads. I’ve ordered a few types from Autodoc (Meyle) as I have new (MB) springs for my A124 and envisage trouble getting it sitting right. I haven’t measured them but there is substantial difference thinnest to thickest. The springs sit part way between the pivot point of the arm and the wheel which means the effect of pad change on ride height is greater than actual pad thickness, so I reckon 18mm pad difference equates to a multiple of that in ride height.

[BigBen]

Stegel said:

The springs sit part way between the pivot point of the arm and the wheel which means the effect of pad change on ride height is greater than actual pad thickness, so I reckon 18mm pad difference equates to a multiple of that in ride height.

I was struggling with that at first but having re-read I think that is important information. I have a similar problem with the springs on my R107, the new ones make it look like a Dakar rally car

[mwstewart]

Motion ratio. The MB pads go up to around 17mm which actually makes a significant change to ride height when the motion ratio is taken into account.

[Stegel]

I don’t know why I talked of measuring them when I have the invoice! They range from 8mm to 23mm in 5mm increments. MB are not going to adjust suspension height in 5mm steps, it’s definitely multiples of that step.

[r129sl]

It is a frustrating business trying to keep these cars right. I too have had problems with springs and I don't have any answers.

As for seats, you may wish to scour American eBay from time to time. These cars were more common there. A right-side seat in America is the passenger seat and will be a lot less worn. For my 129, I obtained a used right-side seat back from America and, while not cheap (about £200 all told), it was considerably less expensive than the alternatives and almost as good.

[Penguinracer]

A Benz World thread had the following colour coding for the W140 springs:

1403212504 - 2 yellow and 2 white
1403212404 - 2 yellow and 1 white
1403212004 - 1 yellow
1403212304 - 3 red and 1 blue
1403210704 - 2 green and 1 blue
1403210904 - 2 blue and 1 green
1403210604 - 1 blue and 1 green
1403210804 - 3 green and 1 blue

And on the second coil:

BLUE - NORMAL/REGULAR COIL SPRING
RED - SOFTER COIL SPRING (softer than with a BLUE mark)

[tobinen]

Stegel said:

I would certainly look at spring pads. I’ve ordered a few types from Autodoc (Meyle) as I have new (MB) springs for my A124 and envisage trouble getting it sitting right. I haven’t measured them but there is substantial difference thinnest to thickest. The springs sit part way between the pivot point of the arm and the wheel which means the effect of pad change on ride height is greater than actual pad thickness, so I reckon 18mm pad difference equates to a multiple of that in ride height.

Thanks Stegel, I was not aware of that but it makes sense so something more to ponder. I would really like to pay the garage just one more time as the labour costs add up each time he removes the springs. Plus I think he's tiring of me though he accepts it's definitely a lot higher.

[tobinen]

The four shims available

[B'stard Child]

tobinen said:

The four shims available

So cut a coil and then compensate if required with a suitable spring pad