JZW Stage 5 Saab 9-3 v6 Aero

[griffin dai]

HybridAero said:

What a brute, so much torque! Are the gearboxes in these loads stronger than the ones in a 2002 9-5?

Wondering if they are a simple swap?

400+ lb ft would most likely lunch a mk1/2 9-5 gearbox, especially 5th gear.

Yeah the F40 box is pretty strong mate, I think they've got dual imput shafts but the gear change can be a little notchy at times, there's a turret repair kit on eBay that sorts it though and better gear oil like redline helps (did it over summer and its ok now)
There's some 550+ft/lb cars in the states now, I'm probably just under 500 here so should be ok. The auto's can take a shed load too

Not sure on swapping to the 9-5, I think the 9-5 uses the f35? I guess anythings possible with enough ££££ though!! Someone on UKS is looking at fitting the 2.8 to his 9-5....that'll be awesome if he can do it!!

Best speak to someone like Mike or Ade on UKS (or Karl & Kev) about the torque limits on the box, couple of GT30 cars there running 400+ft/lbs but not sure if they've done anything to strengthen the box, I think Kevs got the Quaife gear set though (££££)

But I had more gearbox issues running stage 4 & 5 power on my 9000 vs stage 6, everything happens a good 1,000rpm later with the bigger turbo so it's a little easier on the box as long as you don't hoon it in 1st & 2nd all the time. I did 3 boxes on my 9k until I calmed down Fun trying the different ratios out though, the 4:45 was bonkers!!

[griffin dai]

Shadow R1 said:

Great stuff.

Is that boost cut thing at lower revs to protect the bottom end.
I remember from the t5's if they had the early bosch ecu (4.4 I think) it could get full boost at low rpms with a big turbo fitted it would do big damage.
The cars with the later bosch ecu (me7 if memory serves), had a failsafe to protect against this, the cutting it did was as you describe.
This stuff goes back a few years from when i had my T5, so has most likely been sorted now.

Just a thought that popped into my head reading this.

Seems to happen on the jzw stage 5 cars mate, the hirsch/maptun guys don't have this issue but we're running more boost here. The 3.5bar map sensor has cured this with the 19/20T cars but I'm still getting it on the 18t (I'm hoping the new actuator cures this though) can't think what else it could be, unless the plugs/coils are passed it?

[TheAngryDog]

Bluehawk said:

Loving this car!!
Recently owned a Saab 93 2.0t, running 300bhp with bigger turbo etc... so i can only imagine what this thing must go like!

Have you had it on a Dyno yet? would love to see some real figures!

Tell me more!

[Hackney]

Complete noob question, but what does "WOT" mean / stand for?

[griffin dai]

Wide Open Throttle

[Hackney]

Thanks.

Must stop reading your threads on here and UK Saabs. Keep getting itchy credit card finger!
Shopping list now includes 3" downpipe, strut brace, intercooler, brake upgrade etc, etc.
Necessities: rear diff (maybe), service (in 3,000 miles)

[griffin dai]

Hackney said:

Thanks.

Must stop reading your threads on here and UK Saabs. Keep getting itchy credit card finger!
Shopping list now includes 3" downpipe, strut brace, intercooler, brake upgrade etc, etc.
Necessities: rear diff (maybe), service (in 3,000 miles)

Yeah best to get the diff serviced mate, they can be a little problematic and end up with big repair bills, I think the TX has the same Hadlex as the Insignia VXR and they seem to be having the same diff issues on VXROL. Thorney MS seem to be the ones to use there for a good service/upgrade especially if your looking to tune it. This would be my first port of call before any upgrades tbh.

Strut brace....I can't really say it's made a big difference on mine but with all the other suspension mods it's probably helped. Martin93t fitted one to his TX a while back and it sounded like a worthwhile upgrade here.

Brake upgrade- You've got the same 345's as me on the TX, I guess the next step up would be the Maptun 4 pots or if your flush (I'm not) the Maptun 6 pots. For a cheap upgrade though I'd just for some good pads like Ferodo DS2500 or DS3000, HEL lines and decent fluid like RBF600. Shouldn't cost too much. Basically what I've got but with standard Vec VXR discs. The Maptun kit probably weighs less than the 345's though (they're well heavy)!!

Downpipe you can go slightly bigger to 3.5" but the heat shield won't go back on so you'd have to heat wrap it or get this ceramic coated, 3" will be fine though. I'm going for the 5" one later next year when I've got a few quid spare but have it ceramic coated.

IC- This evo ones fine, had to fit inbetween the rad & a/c though, I know one of the guys on UKS fitted it right up front line a proper FMIC but had issues with it rubbing so bummed it for the DO88 cooler instead (I think that's a drop in fit but 50mm and wider/taller) I'll probably have to bin mine this year and get the thinner IC when i go for a bigger water rad, really tight there so I'll struggle to fit the 90mm IC, 50mm rad and keep the A/C....plus upgrading the oil cooler for an external one which sits right up front of the IC. Gonna be tight!!

[Shadow R1]

griffin dai said:

Seems to happen on the jzw stage 5 cars mate, the hirsch/maptun guys don't have this issue but we're running more boost here. The 3.5bar map sensor has cured this with the 19/20T cars but I'm still getting it on the 18t (I'm hoping the new actuator cures this though) can't think what else it could be, unless the plugs/coils are passed it?

Right, fingers crossed the actuator sorts it.

Ask to have a look at the plugs when the old ones come out, plus which pot they come out of.


That came out of pot 4 in the R1, it was only running on 3.


Sv1000 (twin) that was not happy, changed the pair and all ok (it had done 10k with them in).


R1 plug 4 dirty at the top but ok at the electrode end, all 4 matched colour wise.

It might just help confirm if yours is ok across all 6.

[griffin dai]

Thanks mate, yeah I'll ask the garage to keep them in order to check if there's any issues. I'll probably take a small box down with numbered cut outs so they can plonk then in quickly in the right order. The 3 old coils will be kept in the car just in case for spare. The other two will probably die soon

I think new plugs should sort it here, hope so anyway!

[griffin dai]

Have you still got the R1? Guess you've seen this

http://youtu.be/nANRAeyu_sU

[Shadow R1]

griffin dai said:

Have you still got the R1? Guess you've seen this

http://youtu.be/nANRAeyu_sU

Its a good vid, I was going for the parachute when the guy nearly came off the back, that wouldn't have ended well.

I hope all goes well with the Saab.

[Heaveho]

[quote=griffin dai) IC- This evo ones fine, had to fit inbetween the rad & a/c though, I know one of the guys on UKS fitted it right up front line a proper FMIC but had issues with it rubbing so bummed it for the DO88 cooler instead (I think that's a drop in fit but 50mm and wider/taller) I'll probably have to bin mine this year and get the thinner IC when i go for a bigger water rad, really tight there so I'll struggle to fit the 90mm IC, 50mm rad and keep the A/C....plus upgrading the oil cooler for an external one which sits right up front of the IC. Gonna be tight!!
[/quote]

Hi, if you need to change the ic, have a look at the HDI GT range, very good cooler. Had one on my Evo, about 75mm thick, measured the temps, and it was as good as the thicker and much heavier ETS I run now. And cheaper! Both of them are better than the standard Evo 8 item, and that in itself is a good cooler within it's limits. If you're at 500 brake, you're past the limits of a standard Evo cooler, the HDI is rated to 750 brake. I sold mine for £250 a couple of years ago, so they're not barmy money 2nd hand for how good they are. The unbranded stuff on ebay is generally crap at keeping temps low.

All the best with the car, great thread.

[griffin dai]

Heaveho said:

Hi, if you need to change the ic, have a look at the HDI GT range, very good cooler. Had one on my Evo, about 75mm thick, measured the temps, and it was as good as the thicker and much heavier ETS I run now. And cheaper! Both of them are better than the standard Evo 8 item, and that in itself is a good cooler within it's limits. If you're at 500 brake, you're past the limits of a standard Evo cooler, the HDI is rated to 750 brake. I sold mine for £250 a couple of years ago, so they're not barmy money 2nd hand for how good they are. The unbranded stuff on ebay is generally crap at keeping temps low.

All the best with the car, great thread.

Thanks mate I'll take a look at them, if I can keep the 90mm evo IC (Chinese copy off eBay) plus the bigger rad I should be ok. No issues with heat soak here yet either but might be different over summer. Heavy thing though!!

The US Saab lot rate the ETS coolers highly, seems a popular choice over there.

[griffin dai]

Forgot to add another exhaust clip with a few revs thrown in:

http://youtu.be/abtMT-tpxkY

Sounds nice but still missing that little crackle you get on the Turbo X when you lift off. I think that comes from the TX's rumble box that's fitted just before the system splits to the tail pipes.

Standard Aero exhaust


Turbo X exhaust


I might give the rumble box a try out after the boost issues sorted and see how it sounds then

[Heaveho]

griffin dai said:

Thanks mate I'll take a look at them, if I can keep the 90mm evo IC (Chinese copy off eBay) plus the bigger rad I should be ok. No issues with heat soak here yet either but might be different over summer. Heavy thing though!!

The US Saab lot rate the ETS coolers highly, seems a popular choice over there.

Hi, are you measuring the temps from the IC you're currently using? A k type thermocouple in the throttle body linked to a digital display, and a scangauge plugged into the OBD socket to take measurements from the IAT on the inlet manifold makes interesting reading. Also interesting comparisons in temp differences between the two, the differences can be massive, depending on throttle openings. The air temp in the manifold is what I've learnt to pay more attention to, that's obviously more representative of the temp of air likely to be entering the cylinders. It's always higher than at the throttle body.

[griffin dai]

Heaveho said:

Hi, are you measuring the temps from the IC you're currently using? A k type thermocouple in the throttle body linked to a digital display, and a scangauge plugged into the OBD socket to take measurements from the IAT on the inlet manifold makes interesting reading. Also interesting comparisons in temp differences between the two, the differences can be massive, depending on throttle openings. The air temp in the manifold is what I've learnt to pay more attention to, that's obviously more representative of the temp of air likely to be entering the cylinders. It's always higher than at the throttle body.

Thanks again I'll be getting my head into HP Tuners over the next few weeks, and hoping to sort something out later this year to keep an eye on things with a small 7" tablet as a display. I think I can measure everything through that?

http://www.hptuners.com/products/vcmscanner.php

[Heaveho]

griffin dai said:

Thanks again I'll be getting my head into HP Tuners over the next few weeks, and hoping to sort something out later this year to keep an eye on things with a small 7" tablet as a display. I think I can measure everything through that?

http://www.hptuners.com/products/vcmscanner.php

Yeah, that should do it, looks pretty comprehensive.

[AntiLagGC8]

Heaveho said:

Just a word based on experience, those ebay intercoolers are " usually " poor, in my experience. If it's made for an Evo, chances are it doesn't perform anything like as well as the Evo factory intercooler, which is known to be very good, and not worth changing below 450 brake. The temps on the ebay one I had were appalling, and I binned it and bought an ETS, not cheap, but keeps temps low. The HDI 2 ones are also very good. I measure temps, it's worth paying attention to.

Love the car, btw.

I couldn't agree more.

I had a poor after market intercooler and I didn't understand that was the problem until I took it to the excellent Engine Tuner in Plymouth who know Impreza's very well who took one look and said the rubbish intercooler was the issue. The car never over heated or showed any signs of heat issues but changing it to a recommended one (the HDi GT is always well recommended) and with a remap and some other changes it made an additional 120bhp.

Excellent thread by the way! I love reading threads like this!

[griffin dai]

AntiLagGC8 said:

I couldn't agree more.

I had a poor after market intercooler and I didn't understand that was the problem until I took it to the excellent Engine Tuner in Plymouth who know Impreza's very well who took one look and said the rubbish intercooler was the issue. The car never over heated or showed any signs of heat issues but changing it to a recommended one (the HDi GT is always well recommended) and with a remap and some other changes it made an additional 120bhp.

Excellent thread by the way! I love reading threads like this!

Thanks

That's some jump in power What other mods did you do? How much power can the Impreza's take before its forged piston time? Good mate of mine had the P1 for a while, awesome bit of kit

I really need to get into HP Tuners here and start logging a few things. Im happy enough with the performance side now and handlings about as good as I can get it bar fitting some sticky tyres over summer, so next 'project' is tackle the engine temps and try bring them down a bit (you could fry an egg in there it gets so hot!!) should really look at upgrading the water rad and oil cooler sooner than later.

Not many options here bar a uprated Courtney Rad for the Vectra VXR, or go custom for around £500 (nothing Saab available anywhere) Probably not so much an issue yet (not exactly running mad power compared to some 9-3's in the states! Still a pretty small turbo) But will probably go for a bigger turbo later this year so best sort the cooling side out first.

[AntiLagGC8]

griffin dai said:

AntiLagGC8 said:

I couldn't agree more.

I had a poor after market intercooler and I didn't understand that was the problem until I took it to the excellent Engine Tuner in Plymouth who know Impreza's very well who took one look and said the rubbish intercooler was the issue. The car never over heated or showed any signs of heat issues but changing it to a recommended one (the HDi GT is always well recommended) and with a remap and some other changes it made an additional 120bhp.

Excellent thread by the way! I love reading threads like this!

Thanks

That's some jump in power What other mods did you do? How much power can the Impreza's take before its forged piston time? Good mate of mine had the P1 for a while, awesome bit of kit

I really need to get into HP Tuners here and start logging a few things. Im happy enough with the performance side now and handlings about as good as I can get it bar fitting some sticky tyres over summer, so next 'project' is tackle the engine temps and try bring them down a bit (you could fry an egg in there it gets so hot!!) should really look at upgrading the water rad and oil cooler sooner than later.

Not many options here bar a uprated Courtney Rad for the Vectra VXR, or go custom for around £500 (nothing Saab available anywhere) Probably not so much an issue yet (not exactly running mad power compared to some 9-3's in the states! Still a pretty small turbo) But will probably go for a bigger turbo later this year so best sort the cooling side out first.

There is no hard or fast rules around this but 350-400 seems like a reasonable number to most. Plenty of folk have pushed well over 450 on standard internals but most tuners don't recommend that. Also depending the model gearboxes and clutches are usually the weak link.

£500 seems reasonable for a front intercooler, my cars combined cost of being converted into a front mount (airbox has to go so induction kit is required) was a lot more than that with the remap.

My car is fully forged and was rebuilt about 30k ago and has the following (copy and paste), I'm sure I've probably missed things;

H Pattern Manley Con-rods
Mahle Pistons
Studded cylinder heads using ARP stud kit
Refaced all valves and lapped into the new seats
Competition bearings used for Big end and main bearings
New oil pump
Twin scroll VF37
Twin scroll sump
Twin scroll OE Headers
Oil cooler and modine
Front mount intercooler
RCM 340 fuel pump
RCM Induction Kit
550cc Power Enterprise injectors
PFR7B spark plugs
3 Port Boost Solenoid
Miltek Full Exhaust
Alcatek ECU V5-6 Motorsport Enabled (anti-lag/launch control)

So it should be good for a safe 450-500 or maybe a bit more if I wanted to chance it.

I'm working more on handling and brakes now as I plan to track it this year.

Edit: Actually you may want to try Engine Tuner as they work on all sorts of modified cars and could probably give you a price to fit one for your car if they are anywhere near your location?

Edited by AntiLagGC8 on Friday 1st January 21:09