Alfa Romeo 164 Twinspark Super
Discussion
Potential success.
Having got into the habit of disconnecting the battery after each trip, I had hoped the 164 would give me a clue as to what was ailing it. In my experience, a bit of care taken to listen, smell and look carefully at a car often yields some clues as to an issues.
With the engine just swtiched off and the headlights beginning to flicker, I sat quietly for a moment.
<muted clicking>
Was that...?
<muffled click>
Is that a relay firing with the key out? Hmm... let's open the interior fuse box again... it appears A727 559 relay for the 'Control Unit Parking Lamps' is occasionally activating. Oh, and it's warm - hot, indeed!
So I took a punt and tracked down the same relay, actually from the the breaker of the black 164 earlier in this thread that I took some panels from, and swapped it out.
This may have cured the issue, but as it was intermittent only time will tell!
Having got into the habit of disconnecting the battery after each trip, I had hoped the 164 would give me a clue as to what was ailing it. In my experience, a bit of care taken to listen, smell and look carefully at a car often yields some clues as to an issues.
With the engine just swtiched off and the headlights beginning to flicker, I sat quietly for a moment.
<muted clicking>
Was that...?
<muffled click>
Is that a relay firing with the key out? Hmm... let's open the interior fuse box again... it appears A727 559 relay for the 'Control Unit Parking Lamps' is occasionally activating. Oh, and it's warm - hot, indeed!
So I took a punt and tracked down the same relay, actually from the the breaker of the black 164 earlier in this thread that I took some panels from, and swapped it out.
This may have cured the issue, but as it was intermittent only time will tell!
Thanks for the kind words - I'll endeavour to post up some more content now as it's back on the road.
The relay has cured the issue for now - the battery is healthy, the lights back to normal and nothing is too hot or making terrifying noises in the electrical areas. Hopefully this means we can get to the Alfa day in April without incident!
My wife took it for a drive yesterday and said "The Alfa is, just ... sharper than the Saab. Steering, brakes, engine, noise - even the seats." I think that sums it up nicely - it'll hopefully sharpen up further once I finally get round to foisting the new front and rear subframes I have resting in the garage full of new suspension gubbins. Also, underseal.
I now have three cars that require derusting, sealing and undersealing. This is not going to be a fun spring...
The relay has cured the issue for now - the battery is healthy, the lights back to normal and nothing is too hot or making terrifying noises in the electrical areas. Hopefully this means we can get to the Alfa day in April without incident!
My wife took it for a drive yesterday and said "The Alfa is, just ... sharper than the Saab. Steering, brakes, engine, noise - even the seats." I think that sums it up nicely - it'll hopefully sharpen up further once I finally get round to foisting the new front and rear subframes I have resting in the garage full of new suspension gubbins. Also, underseal.
I now have three cars that require derusting, sealing and undersealing. This is not going to be a fun spring...
Alfahol Addict said:
What a great thread and good job on the car, thank you for saving that 164. 
Thanks, it's getting there, though every time I leave it for a month something else demands attention!wojtekz28 said:
Great job! The car is definitely worth renovating. Do You have an old cassette radio? Can You sell it to me?
Not at present, but I'll let you know if the car and spares are ever going anywhere, thanks.dasigty said:
Check your email.
Saw something on ebay that could be of interest to you, wont fit any of mine ;0)
I bid but missed it at the end due to work commitments - a shame as I doubt I'll see another. Thanks for the notes though, much appreciated.Saw something on ebay that could be of interest to you, wont fit any of mine ;0)
The Alfa did make it to Auto Italia this year, although not before its traditional harrumphing of a battery ever so slightly down on charge. Only just this time mind, not utterly doornailed, but as it was my backup battery from the GT6 I finally decided to agree with what the battery has been telling me for a few years and actually dispose of it. Oh well. I also tidied up some fuses that were showing some grottiness (I only changed these a few years ago - I'll blame the miserable part quality) and finally got shot of the oversized battery tray that obscured the shroud.
There we go. Done. Right? Nothing untidy or annoying in that last picture? Anyway, time was ticking on...
Alfa specific entrance, how fancy and brilliantly traffic-dodging:
Made it and even had a few moments to clean off the worst of the grime and hold the Super Resin Polish under its snout to get it to shine.
An excellent day, as always, alas I took many photos on an actual camera, rather than the phone and have yet to blue my tooth for enough hours to transfer them over. Update to follow.
I checked the fluid last weekend and topped up the coolant tank in, I think, the first time since we did the thermostat three years ago. My memory jabbed me with a sharp piece of trim to remind me of a coolant bottle somewhere in that large stash I dragged back to the garage... perhaps I could clean it up ready for swapping out when the radiator is changed...
Plan abandoned upon further inspection.
The 164 has been back into daily use for a short while, as my wife decided she preferred it over her Saab 900 that was developing ever more exhaust leaks and whose front engine mount was making stop-start traffic a chore.
Not to be outdone, the ever-faithful 164 shrugged off its admirer by developing its own exhaust leak, plus a few clunks as the newly-odorous pipework sagged into crossmembers at the slightest mention of motion:
It capped it off by dismissing a rubber exhaust hanger and really making a noisy mess of itself.
Thus it is returned to skulking in the corner of the drive while I plot some potential time to work on it. Yay.
There we go. Done. Right? Nothing untidy or annoying in that last picture? Anyway, time was ticking on...
Alfa specific entrance, how fancy and brilliantly traffic-dodging:
Made it and even had a few moments to clean off the worst of the grime and hold the Super Resin Polish under its snout to get it to shine.
An excellent day, as always, alas I took many photos on an actual camera, rather than the phone and have yet to blue my tooth for enough hours to transfer them over. Update to follow.
I checked the fluid last weekend and topped up the coolant tank in, I think, the first time since we did the thermostat three years ago. My memory jabbed me with a sharp piece of trim to remind me of a coolant bottle somewhere in that large stash I dragged back to the garage... perhaps I could clean it up ready for swapping out when the radiator is changed...
Plan abandoned upon further inspection.
The 164 has been back into daily use for a short while, as my wife decided she preferred it over her Saab 900 that was developing ever more exhaust leaks and whose front engine mount was making stop-start traffic a chore.
Not to be outdone, the ever-faithful 164 shrugged off its admirer by developing its own exhaust leak, plus a few clunks as the newly-odorous pipework sagged into crossmembers at the slightest mention of motion:
It capped it off by dismissing a rubber exhaust hanger and really making a noisy mess of itself.
Thus it is returned to skulking in the corner of the drive while I plot some potential time to work on it. Yay.
Last weekend I visited Cheltenham to see a friend and as the Rover was full of furniture and the Saab awaiting engine mount and exhaust work, I took the 164 outside of the M25 for the first time this year. Tyres checked, coolant and oil topped up ever so slightly and sunroof open - time to blow out the cobwebs!
I worked out a route through the woods outside Newbury to collect exhaust past for the Saab. The seller has a mid box, but then volunteered a downpipe too. Result!
Yes, I have enough confidence in the electricals to actually have the batter cover mounted. This is the first time in a while.
Fantastic greenery streamed past and I remembered how enjoyable this car is to drive. The 164 is very at home with twisty B road detours as its relative short geared and grippy. Some of the work over the past years really shows now - the brakes are responsive and fade resistant, the steering sharp and it never missed a chance to rev or hesistated throughout. The seats hug your kidneys and there's not a single warning light on the dash. Although the exhaust is in its last throes of life, it has a magnificent death rattle - the twinspark really snarls without ever being irritating.
The 164 was the last recipient of the 8V twinspark, and once it's fully warmed (as in, 30 minutes), all last remnants of tappet noise and gearbox whine soften, the buzzsaw twin cam catches on at reliable rev points and it becomes an absolute blast.
After takign a few muddy road the ABS light started winking at me - probably just mud but some of the connectors likely need a clean. In fact the entire underbonnet area needs a proper descrunge. Brushes and Gunk en route.
250 miles covered in the weekend and I think the Alfa needs some rewards. Work begins...
I worked out a route through the woods outside Newbury to collect exhaust past for the Saab. The seller has a mid box, but then volunteered a downpipe too. Result!
Yes, I have enough confidence in the electricals to actually have the batter cover mounted. This is the first time in a while.
Fantastic greenery streamed past and I remembered how enjoyable this car is to drive. The 164 is very at home with twisty B road detours as its relative short geared and grippy. Some of the work over the past years really shows now - the brakes are responsive and fade resistant, the steering sharp and it never missed a chance to rev or hesistated throughout. The seats hug your kidneys and there's not a single warning light on the dash. Although the exhaust is in its last throes of life, it has a magnificent death rattle - the twinspark really snarls without ever being irritating.
The 164 was the last recipient of the 8V twinspark, and once it's fully warmed (as in, 30 minutes), all last remnants of tappet noise and gearbox whine soften, the buzzsaw twin cam catches on at reliable rev points and it becomes an absolute blast.
After takign a few muddy road the ABS light started winking at me - probably just mud but some of the connectors likely need a clean. In fact the entire underbonnet area needs a proper descrunge. Brushes and Gunk en route.
250 miles covered in the weekend and I think the Alfa needs some rewards. Work begins...
Thanks for the kind words - having to skip the Alfa Day tomorrow unfortunately, a pain but perhaps next year.
Clattering of exhaust quelled, for now, with some new rubber hangers and slight bending of the existing hooks. Phil at Alfacraft once again helped me out in exchange for some muttered curses and general whinging:
The ABS light has also sauntered off for the time being after a waggle of connectors, and the 164 is once again twincamming along happily.
Phil and I have also hatched a plan for bringing the underneath up to standard. More to follow.
Clattering of exhaust quelled, for now, with some new rubber hangers and slight bending of the existing hooks. Phil at Alfacraft once again helped me out in exchange for some muttered curses and general whinging:
The ABS light has also sauntered off for the time being after a waggle of connectors, and the 164 is once again twincamming along happily.
Phil and I have also hatched a plan for bringing the underneath up to standard. More to follow.
Inspection of the rear underside.
Summary: Not quite leftover cornflakes, but requiring some attention. Golden Grahams? No, that's not right either...
It looks worse than it is on the suspension components, but then it is worse than it looks on some bits of the floorpan where rust has got under the underseal.
Crossmember a little worse for wear:
Shock absorbers and brake dust covers in particularly reprehensible state, but fortunately all to be replaced:
Fortunately I have this, another rear crossmember. After much scraping and prodding, its probably about the same standard as the one on the car, so I'm going to consult with chemicals, dip firms and a friend who restores steelwork to see how we can get it to a stage that will last for a good few years.
I finally removed the last cable tie from the previous ownership: it tidied the cam sensor cable away from spinny belty things, but I replaced it with a P clips run through the dipstick support bolt.
At this corner of the block there has always been a slight oil weep, and while rummaging I found the head of an inverted bolt, and experimentally gave a bit of a tighten. We'll see if it makes any difference.
Not pretty but it's not a cable tie:
I also tighten everything I could spot that needed it, emptied the oil catch can and topped up a few fluids.
It was a delight to come home that evening to find the wife had cleaned it following the departure of our driveway skip (two bucket method, she is fastidious, don't worry) and the 164 is ready from some more disassembly or summer pottering.
I now have to source the correct shocks, springs and bushes for the rear, and a few jars of POR15 and BiltHamber products in preparation.
Should I go polybush or standard? The Poly experiment on the engine mounts was a disaster, but for suspension perhaps more suitable. Opinions welcome!
Summary: Not quite leftover cornflakes, but requiring some attention. Golden Grahams? No, that's not right either...
It looks worse than it is on the suspension components, but then it is worse than it looks on some bits of the floorpan where rust has got under the underseal.
Crossmember a little worse for wear:
Shock absorbers and brake dust covers in particularly reprehensible state, but fortunately all to be replaced:
Fortunately I have this, another rear crossmember. After much scraping and prodding, its probably about the same standard as the one on the car, so I'm going to consult with chemicals, dip firms and a friend who restores steelwork to see how we can get it to a stage that will last for a good few years.
I finally removed the last cable tie from the previous ownership: it tidied the cam sensor cable away from spinny belty things, but I replaced it with a P clips run through the dipstick support bolt.
At this corner of the block there has always been a slight oil weep, and while rummaging I found the head of an inverted bolt, and experimentally gave a bit of a tighten. We'll see if it makes any difference.
Not pretty but it's not a cable tie:
I also tighten everything I could spot that needed it, emptied the oil catch can and topped up a few fluids.
It was a delight to come home that evening to find the wife had cleaned it following the departure of our driveway skip (two bucket method, she is fastidious, don't worry) and the 164 is ready from some more disassembly or summer pottering.
I now have to source the correct shocks, springs and bushes for the rear, and a few jars of POR15 and BiltHamber products in preparation.
Should I go polybush or standard? The Poly experiment on the engine mounts was a disaster, but for suspension perhaps more suitable. Opinions welcome!
Edited by Spinakerr on Sunday 7th July 17:47
Lovely work, every time I read your updates I recall mine with affection. I've poly bushed (not that I did the spanner work...) three of ours over the years, two BMs & a 156 GTA. On balance is say worth it, but I perceived I subtle difference in ride quality in all 3, not unbearable at all, just less compliance which makes sense I guess. The payback in terms of handling & serviceability offset that in my view though.
I've replaced bushes with poly on my impreza and legacy, and they've really enhanced the feel and experience.
However, my current car is a big comfy cruiser/family transport, and it's the first car I've had where I'm aiming for quiet and comfort. So, no poly bushes, no exhaust mods, no induction kits.
What do you use the 164 for?
However, my current car is a big comfy cruiser/family transport, and it's the first car I've had where I'm aiming for quiet and comfort. So, no poly bushes, no exhaust mods, no induction kits.
What do you use the 164 for?
Edited by Cambs_Stuart on Sunday 7th July 21:15
Cambs_Stuart said:
I've replaced bushes with poly on my impreza and legacy, and they've really enhanced the feel and experience.
However, my current car is a big comfy cruiser/family transport, and it's the first car I've had where I'm aiming for quiet and comfort. So, no poly bushes, no exhaust mods, no induction kits.
What do you use the 164 for?
Need another?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Apologies I missed this! The Alfa mainly does occasional A road meanderings and some inner city stuff. I rare get the chance to push it in interesting environments, but after some research I'm going to go for the softest polybushes on the suspension and leave engine mounts and ride height all at stock (or replaced as standard). Fingers and toes crossed - I've a lot of prep to do before dropping the bottom of this car out!However, my current car is a big comfy cruiser/family transport, and it's the first car I've had where I'm aiming for quiet and comfort. So, no poly bushes, no exhaust mods, no induction kits.
What do you use the 164 for?
Need another?
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
In the interim, before a drive the other day I thought I'd do a quick check under the bonnet. Good thing I did - two injection rail fuel hoses had some serious splits:
Worrying in any situation, but even more so as I replaced these myself when the originals began weeping. I must have used non-fuel rated line - curse my earlier self and his impudence!
Careful removal gave rise to further concern - these were sold and stamped as rated fuel lines. Either they weren't right for unleaded or the original construction was not up to speck. How worrying.
I made up two new lines from some reliably-source pipe used on the Triumph and the car is back running.
Immolation dodged.
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