UK Integra R. Low miles & minty fresh
Discussion
chrismc1977 said:
Definite thumbs up for hardrace & Spoon here. It’s very good quality stuff.
With double wishbones all round it’s vital all the bushings are in good order.
I’m hugely impressed with how it drives & handles now. The back end being tighter with new bushings & more firmly damped has dialled out any understeer that had crept in. I can truly feel what everyone raved about when they were new....
It just doesn’t understeer & feels better the harder you push it. Very capable indeed with AD08 tyres.
It certainly proves to me that it’s a false economy wasting cash on coilover suspension on uk roads. The fresh dampers & bushes are entirely sufficient. Whilst the dampers aren’t cheap- that’s for a very good reason. Spoon know a thing or two about Integras....
Ride height is unaltered as retained standard springs & the dampers are effectively OEM with all the same spring perches & bracketry.
Not a fan of coilovers either. I must admit though that I prefer the ride height slightly lower for its aesthetics so I've got Eibach springs on mine which give it a slightly lower stance to standard. With double wishbones all round it’s vital all the bushings are in good order.
I’m hugely impressed with how it drives & handles now. The back end being tighter with new bushings & more firmly damped has dialled out any understeer that had crept in. I can truly feel what everyone raved about when they were new....
It just doesn’t understeer & feels better the harder you push it. Very capable indeed with AD08 tyres.
It certainly proves to me that it’s a false economy wasting cash on coilover suspension on uk roads. The fresh dampers & bushes are entirely sufficient. Whilst the dampers aren’t cheap- that’s for a very good reason. Spoon know a thing or two about Integras....
Ride height is unaltered as retained standard springs & the dampers are effectively OEM with all the same spring perches & bracketry.
However, this means speed bumps could occasionally cause some slight scraping to the underside of the Mugen twin loop exhaust depending on approach.
Petrolism said:
Here's a few pics of mine, a '99 model. Only does a couple of thousand km every summer (& probably less than that this year).
Rebuilt the gearbox last summer with Synchrotech, Toda Racing, Cusco, Mugen (synchros, flywheel, clutch & engine/box mounts) parts last summer.
Runs beautifully with a Spoon ECU (revs to 9,000 and V-Tec from 5,100) and Mugen Twin loop exhaust. Intake is lovely too.
More pics and story of this and the CRX-R I built because I miss driving the DC2 regularly on www.jomoncarrental.com/blog
That's a great looking one you've got there also. I'm sure I've seen this on a previous thread here on Pistonheads. I checked out the link to the blogs, subscribed to the channel and enjoyed watching the videos. Rebuilt the gearbox last summer with Synchrotech, Toda Racing, Cusco, Mugen (synchros, flywheel, clutch & engine/box mounts) parts last summer.
Runs beautifully with a Spoon ECU (revs to 9,000 and V-Tec from 5,100) and Mugen Twin loop exhaust. Intake is lovely too.
More pics and story of this and the CRX-R I built because I miss driving the DC2 regularly on www.jomoncarrental.com/blog
Love the build you've done to the CRX-R and especially the S2000 speedo that you've built in. Had a couple of Delsols in the past but never this shape as much as I wanted one but most were rusty and good ones were too expensive at the time.
Will be following the channel with interest!
Koolkat969 said:
Petrolism said:
Here's a few pics of mine, a '99 model. Only does a couple of thousand km every summer (& probably less than that this year).
Rebuilt the gearbox last summer with Synchrotech, Toda Racing, Cusco, Mugen (synchros, flywheel, clutch & engine/box mounts) parts last summer.
Runs beautifully with a Spoon ECU (revs to 9,000 and V-Tec from 5,100) and Mugen Twin loop exhaust. Intake is lovely too.
More pics and story of this and the CRX-R I built because I miss driving the DC2 regularly on www.jomoncarrental.com/blog
That's a great looking one you've got there also. I'm sure I've seen this on a previous thread here on Pistonheads. I checked out the link to the blogs, subscribed to the channel and enjoyed watching the videos. Rebuilt the gearbox last summer with Synchrotech, Toda Racing, Cusco, Mugen (synchros, flywheel, clutch & engine/box mounts) parts last summer.
Runs beautifully with a Spoon ECU (revs to 9,000 and V-Tec from 5,100) and Mugen Twin loop exhaust. Intake is lovely too.
More pics and story of this and the CRX-R I built because I miss driving the DC2 regularly on www.jomoncarrental.com/blog
Love the build you've done to the CRX-R and especially the S2000 speedo that you've built in. Had a couple of Delsols in the past but never this shape as much as I wanted one but most were rusty and good ones were too expensive at the time.
Will be following the channel with interest!
There's two more videos being published of the CR-X, the last being of how she drives, this Monday and a week on Monday.
Thereafter we have other interesting 5-part video series coming, the next being a tour of the best driving / scenic routes of Fuji's lakes (We used to live there for 4 years, so know the region well - should be a good guide for people interested in Japan's best driving roads) in a C55AMG wagon. Some spectacular footage of Fuji too.
I intend to make a proper video of the DC2 next time she's out of dry storage, which may only be next year. Currently 6 stories underground inside a locked garage, on a trickle charger, but we have lots of other cars that'll be featured on our videos before...
Koolkat969 said:
chrismc1977 said:
Definite thumbs up for hardrace & Spoon here. It’s very good quality stuff.
With double wishbones all round it’s vital all the bushings are in good order.
I’m hugely impressed with how it drives & handles now. The back end being tighter with new bushings & more firmly damped has dialled out any understeer that had crept in. I can truly feel what everyone raved about when they were new....
It just doesn’t understeer & feels better the harder you push it. Very capable indeed with AD08 tyres.
It certainly proves to me that it’s a false economy wasting cash on coilover suspension on uk roads. The fresh dampers & bushes are entirely sufficient. Whilst the dampers aren’t cheap- that’s for a very good reason. Spoon know a thing or two about Integras....
Ride height is unaltered as retained standard springs & the dampers are effectively OEM with all the same spring perches & bracketry.
Not a fan of coilovers either. I must admit though that I prefer the ride height slightly lower for its aesthetics so I've got Eibach springs on mine which give it a slightly lower stance to standard. With double wishbones all round it’s vital all the bushings are in good order.
I’m hugely impressed with how it drives & handles now. The back end being tighter with new bushings & more firmly damped has dialled out any understeer that had crept in. I can truly feel what everyone raved about when they were new....
It just doesn’t understeer & feels better the harder you push it. Very capable indeed with AD08 tyres.
It certainly proves to me that it’s a false economy wasting cash on coilover suspension on uk roads. The fresh dampers & bushes are entirely sufficient. Whilst the dampers aren’t cheap- that’s for a very good reason. Spoon know a thing or two about Integras....
Ride height is unaltered as retained standard springs & the dampers are effectively OEM with all the same spring perches & bracketry.
However, this means speed bumps could occasionally cause some slight scraping to the underside of the Mugen twin loop exhaust depending on approach.
I used some from Nagisa Auto, but I think HardRace offer a similar replacement which may be cheaper. These help keep geometry in check, especially important during harder cornering. Well worth investing in. With a hydraulic press - they're not too hard to fit either.
I'm still on original suspension aside from the above. Checked it all thoroughly last time we used it and its all fine, car has only 79,000km.
Yes that’ll be the trailing arm bushes.
Always the first to go as you say. Mine were already replaced on spec when I first got the car.
Even with lower mileage such as yours I’d definitely consider doing the rest of the bushes. None of mine looked terrible & would easily pass an MOT test here in the UK.
My specialists Implored how even bushes that look ok will have softened over time- 20yrs+ for most DC2’s now. It’s an age thing- not mileage.
The difference with replacement bushes proves they were right!!
My car had only 80k kms (50k miles) when I bought it & didn’t feel anything like as good as it does now.
Always the first to go as you say. Mine were already replaced on spec when I first got the car.
Even with lower mileage such as yours I’d definitely consider doing the rest of the bushes. None of mine looked terrible & would easily pass an MOT test here in the UK.
My specialists Implored how even bushes that look ok will have softened over time- 20yrs+ for most DC2’s now. It’s an age thing- not mileage.
The difference with replacement bushes proves they were right!!
My car had only 80k kms (50k miles) when I bought it & didn’t feel anything like as good as it does now.
Edited by chrismc1977 on Sunday 31st May 08:16
I checked all of the bushes on the CRX-R when I had all the suspension apart during the build (which had covered about 100,000km on Japanese roads) and only needed to replace the front tie rods (to pillow ball assembly) and trailing arm bushes. For good measure, I replaced the upper front arms (with pillow ball Nagisa Auto parts). The rest were fine and not at all softened. Track rod ends weren't tight, but zero play. Steering rack was fine.
Bushes on the ARB's were changed since those were upgraded and drop links too. I have spare new track rod ends as well as other Mugen bushes in packaging, but see no reason to change. I'd say it may be overkill to change every bush that shows no sign of wear.
I'd say bushes tend to harden and crack over time, rather than softening - much like car tyres... Where they do fail, there's play that can be found with judicious use of a long pry bar when the car is on a lift. Even a little play can be found / heard.
Did replace all of the engine and transmission mounts on the DC2 when we rebuilt the box - then added urethane inserts (I usually avoid Eurethane, as long term it can crack & flake out, but there was no superior choice here) and whilst the box was out, checked all the front suspension bushes since we'd taken the driveshafts, lower arms, steering arms, etc. out too. Was all fine; maybe my friend & previous owner had some work done. He was pretty meticulous with care of this car & had it serviced by an Italian Honda tuning specialist 3 times a year despite only covering a total of less than 10,000km in 3 years.
Checked the rear too and only the large bushes on the trailing arm needed changing, which was also done of course. On the rear, the rest doesn't usually wear out so quick. Shock lower mounts can wear, but the originals were fine too. I haven't been tempted to change the shocks yet, as I don't want to run it any lower than standard. The car is used to carry my wife, kids and luggage to our family summer home in the countryside, which includes a 1km run along a rocky road through a forest. I always drive really dead slow along with it, not wanting to get the body dusty, nor scrape the underside, whilst the locals think it's a rally road and drive their cars harder. Their poor cars & suspension!
It may be that things like your Spoon shocks (which have different valving fo higher speeds than OEM), (& lower springs with different rates?), laser alignment, better tyres, etc. may have led you to believe that replacement bushes make a difference, where alone, they may not have.
Not saying there's anything wrong with changing all the bushes all either. Sooner than later they'll be discontinued!
Maybe I'll get buying soon... On the other hand, there are always so many other things to concentrate on with different projects, that are seemingly more urgent. Its a juggling act of time and expense too.
Bushes on the ARB's were changed since those were upgraded and drop links too. I have spare new track rod ends as well as other Mugen bushes in packaging, but see no reason to change. I'd say it may be overkill to change every bush that shows no sign of wear.
I'd say bushes tend to harden and crack over time, rather than softening - much like car tyres... Where they do fail, there's play that can be found with judicious use of a long pry bar when the car is on a lift. Even a little play can be found / heard.
Did replace all of the engine and transmission mounts on the DC2 when we rebuilt the box - then added urethane inserts (I usually avoid Eurethane, as long term it can crack & flake out, but there was no superior choice here) and whilst the box was out, checked all the front suspension bushes since we'd taken the driveshafts, lower arms, steering arms, etc. out too. Was all fine; maybe my friend & previous owner had some work done. He was pretty meticulous with care of this car & had it serviced by an Italian Honda tuning specialist 3 times a year despite only covering a total of less than 10,000km in 3 years.
Checked the rear too and only the large bushes on the trailing arm needed changing, which was also done of course. On the rear, the rest doesn't usually wear out so quick. Shock lower mounts can wear, but the originals were fine too. I haven't been tempted to change the shocks yet, as I don't want to run it any lower than standard. The car is used to carry my wife, kids and luggage to our family summer home in the countryside, which includes a 1km run along a rocky road through a forest. I always drive really dead slow along with it, not wanting to get the body dusty, nor scrape the underside, whilst the locals think it's a rally road and drive their cars harder. Their poor cars & suspension!
It may be that things like your Spoon shocks (which have different valving fo higher speeds than OEM), (& lower springs with different rates?), laser alignment, better tyres, etc. may have led you to believe that replacement bushes make a difference, where alone, they may not have.
Not saying there's anything wrong with changing all the bushes all either. Sooner than later they'll be discontinued!
Maybe I'll get buying soon... On the other hand, there are always so many other things to concentrate on with different projects, that are seemingly more urgent. Its a juggling act of time and expense too.
Edited by Petrolism on Sunday 31st May 09:26
Pic for ride height reference.
Unlike many- I think the DC2 looks suitably snug as standard. Mine might sit slightly proud owing to the weight reduction & fresh firm bushes/dampers.
I wouldn’t want to go lower/uprated springs as I feel it would make it less usable on UK roads.
I expect it might well settle a bit over time too
Petrolism said:
thanks @Koolkat969 for following. .
There's two more videos being published of the CR-X, the last being of how she drives, this Monday and a week on Monday.
Thereafter we have other interesting 5-part video series coming, the next being a tour of the best driving / scenic routes of Fuji's lakes (We used to live there for 4 years, so know the region well - should be a good guide for people interested in Japan's best driving roads) in a C55AMG wagon. Some spectacular footage of Fuji too.
I intend to make a proper video of the DC2 next time she's out of dry storage, which may only be next year. Currently 6 stories underground inside a locked garage, on a trickle charger, but we have lots of other cars that'll be featured on our videos before...
That's great...... Will certainly be looking forward to future videos. The articles make a nice read also!There's two more videos being published of the CR-X, the last being of how she drives, this Monday and a week on Monday.
Thereafter we have other interesting 5-part video series coming, the next being a tour of the best driving / scenic routes of Fuji's lakes (We used to live there for 4 years, so know the region well - should be a good guide for people interested in Japan's best driving roads) in a C55AMG wagon. Some spectacular footage of Fuji too.
I intend to make a proper video of the DC2 next time she's out of dry storage, which may only be next year. Currently 6 stories underground inside a locked garage, on a trickle charger, but we have lots of other cars that'll be featured on our videos before...
chrismc1977 said:
Pic for ride height reference.
Unlike many- I think the DC2 looks suitably snug as standard. Mine might sit slightly proud owing to the weight reduction & fresh firm bushes/dampers.
I wouldn’t want to go lower/uprated springs as I feel it would make it less usable on UK roads.
I expect it might well settle a bit over time too
Hope I'm not intruding. Here's a side profile of mine, I dug up earlier today - parked illegally on a pedestrian crossing in Portugal.
Was such a pretty setting & light, just couldn't resist at the time. LOL. [EDIT - Standard shocks and springs]
Was such a pretty setting & light, just couldn't resist at the time. LOL. [EDIT - Standard shocks and springs]
Edited by Petrolism on Monday 1st June 16:06
Koolkat969 said:
It's definitely sitting quite tall as in oem and to be fair, it makes it more useable as you say. Probably would have replaced my springs with standard if it were my daily tbh. Here's how it currently sits...
Eibachs? Rear end looks good- can already see some negative camber up front even with a mild drop mind you....Petrolism said:
Hope I'm not intruding. Here's a side profile of mine, I dug up earlier today - parked illegally on a pedestrian crossing in Portugal.
Was such a pretty setting & light, just couldn't resist at the time. LOL. [EDIT - Standard shocks and springs]
Looking great- & not intruding at all.Was such a pretty setting & light, just couldn't resist at the time. LOL. [EDIT - Standard shocks and springs]
Edited by Petrolism on Monday 1st June 16:06
I’m a huge fan of the OEM look
Edited by chrismc1977 on Monday 1st June 20:53
chrismc1977 said:
Petrolism said:
Hope I'm not intruding. Here's a side profile of mine, I dug up earlier today - parked illegally on a pedestrian crossing in Portugal.
Was such a pretty setting & light, just couldn't resist at the time. LOL. [EDIT - Standard shocks and springs]
Looking great- & not intruding at all.Was such a pretty setting & light, just couldn't resist at the time. LOL. [EDIT - Standard shocks and springs]
Edited by Petrolism on Monday 1st June 16:06
I’m a huge fan of the OEM look
Edited by chrismc1977 on Monday 1st June 20:53
I like both.
Think they’ve both aged well if unmolested- UK & JDM both my preference over a 96 spec too
I still like the stock UK wheels being smaller & lighter & always liked the look of the UK car right back from Tiff Needell reviewing on Top Gear
A bit of extra sidewall always welcome on UK roads of course.
Dynamically very little between them- easy enough to get a UK to the equivalent Of a JDM 98spec if that’s your thing too.
https://youtu.be/vsFt_zvgLVQ
Think they’ve both aged well if unmolested- UK & JDM both my preference over a 96 spec too
I still like the stock UK wheels being smaller & lighter & always liked the look of the UK car right back from Tiff Needell reviewing on Top Gear
A bit of extra sidewall always welcome on UK roads of course.
Dynamically very little between them- easy enough to get a UK to the equivalent Of a JDM 98spec if that’s your thing too.
https://youtu.be/vsFt_zvgLVQ
No idea why Japan felt the need to make an entirely different front end for US & EU markets. Maybe plastic headlights weren't quite legal yet, in 1996 & HID wasn't yet legal, since the Japan market HID doesn't require headlamp wash for homologation?
Personally, I prefer the JDM front's styling, it just flows better in my eyes & the 98 spec HID are also a welcome feature for driving at night.
I haven't had any problems with 17" wheels (Shod with AD08's), despite a couple of occasions I drove over some big potholes on cobbled Lisbon roads and caused the front suspension to bottom out. There's probably a bit more grip and reduced flexing of tyre walls due to the lower profile tyres, which may help cornering speeds & poise marginally.
Was the JDM 4-1 2.5" exhaust manifold on the JDM '98 spec also fitted to the UK models? Would be interested to know as there's a small power difference.
Despite the added weight and small sapping of power as a result, I prefer to have the choice of use of air conditioning, especially since we only use the car during August each year.
But all in all, like you say, there's not a huge difference, really.
A lot of people do seem to prefer EUDM models in the U.K.
Personally, I prefer the JDM front's styling, it just flows better in my eyes & the 98 spec HID are also a welcome feature for driving at night.
I haven't had any problems with 17" wheels (Shod with AD08's), despite a couple of occasions I drove over some big potholes on cobbled Lisbon roads and caused the front suspension to bottom out. There's probably a bit more grip and reduced flexing of tyre walls due to the lower profile tyres, which may help cornering speeds & poise marginally.
Was the JDM 4-1 2.5" exhaust manifold on the JDM '98 spec also fitted to the UK models? Would be interested to know as there's a small power difference.
Despite the added weight and small sapping of power as a result, I prefer to have the choice of use of air conditioning, especially since we only use the car during August each year.
But all in all, like you say, there's not a huge difference, really.
A lot of people do seem to prefer EUDM models in the U.K.
EUDM (UK) cars got a different manifold & cat as standard. Not the best pieces of engineering!
Smaller primaries, collector diameter & longer thinner cat as well. JDM cars are listed as +10bhp on EU cars. Header, cat, & mapping on 102Ron fuel accounts for this.
Fortunately I picked up a 98 JDM 4-1 header with Cat & B-pipe for mine.
At least I know it’s breathing properly with the best OEM bits now.
Should be around the 180-185 mark. UK cars tend to make a bit less than quoted 187 as standard with the cast manifold. 175-180hp flywheel is about right.
My first DC2 made bang on stock (187) power with a Mugen airbox & twinloop. Mapping found +9hp peak & a big jump in the mid range. Power came from leaning the mixture. Mapped rich (safe) from the factory....
Smaller primaries, collector diameter & longer thinner cat as well. JDM cars are listed as +10bhp on EU cars. Header, cat, & mapping on 102Ron fuel accounts for this.
Fortunately I picked up a 98 JDM 4-1 header with Cat & B-pipe for mine.
At least I know it’s breathing properly with the best OEM bits now.
Should be around the 180-185 mark. UK cars tend to make a bit less than quoted 187 as standard with the cast manifold. 175-180hp flywheel is about right.
My first DC2 made bang on stock (187) power with a Mugen airbox & twinloop. Mapping found +9hp peak & a big jump in the mid range. Power came from leaning the mixture. Mapped rich (safe) from the factory....
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