Not Your Everyday Race Car - The Mighty Citroen
Discussion
Maybe I'm misunderstanding but if you need Nat A to race Spa (and presumably the other Euro tracks), it would take several years of just doing the UK tracks to progress from the Nat B/yellow cross and get signed up to Nat A and be able to enter all the races in the series. Am I being a bit thick?
Smitters said:
Maybe I'm misunderstanding but if you need Nat A to race Spa (and presumably the other Euro tracks), it would take several years of just doing the UK tracks to progress from the Nat B/yellow cross and get signed up to Nat A and be able to enter all the races in the series. Am I being a bit thick?
No, you're quite correct. You need 6 signatures to upgrade, one of which you can get by spending a day with the chaps in orange so you need to have done 5 UK races on a Nat. B to get a Nat. A.You can enter any UK club race with a Nat. B though, so you could enter enough saloon car races (there are several regional championships, plus Trackday Trophy, Tintops etc) to gain your signatures more quickly, though it's doubtful you'd be competitive in a C1.
I suspect the international nature of 2017 is as much to do with the difficulty of getting a completely new series on an already packed club calendar here in the UK.
So, progress.....
I finally got a bit of time on the car over Christmas, so first job was to drop the sump, no nasties but no pictures either as I was so keen to get on with the car I forgot to take any. Once the sump was back on, the oil/air separator panel went back on with liberal RCV sealant and a (not very interesting) picture as well:
So then back on with all the ancillaries and fire her up..... Well, almost. Someone forgot to connect up the alternator (I'd taped the wires out of the way) so it wasn't charging. Like a hero I found the fault immediately but in my self-congratulatory rush I forgot to disconnect the battery and shorted the wires against the bodywork; a big flash and, unbeknown to me at the time a PITA problem for later.
Anyway, nothing leaked so I called it a day.
Next time out it was 'make it look more like a racecar' day so I started on the interior. This was for two reasons, a) for myself, all I'd done so far was a service and b) so I could send Rich some pics that made it look like I was actually doing something.
Rear seats out:
Front seats out:
Trim, carpet and upper dash out:
Also took the sound deadening out (the deadening in total weighs about as much a a handkerchief, no wonder these cars are noisy on the motorway).
There wasn't much more I could do without the stuff we're going to be buying at Autosport next week or the cage, lower wishbones and modified driveshafts (all club parts that Rich is buying/has bought) so I thought I'd start it up and drain the gearbox oil ready to swap the driveshafts and wishbones over.
It was then I noticed that the battery and power steering lights didn't go out when the car was running.
I checked the alternator, there was current. I checked the fuses in the fuse box, they were all intact. I checked the continuity from the alternator to the battery - nothing. Bugger. Those sparks when I refitted the alternator terminals had something to do with it I'm sure.
So in desperation I turned to the Haynes manual. The wiring diagram has a master fuse yet the entire manual fails to mention it's location or even that the car has one. I traced the wires from the alternator, having to take apart a lot of the bits I'd recently reassembled - nothing. There was definitely a broken link and a fuse was the only logical reason, the cable running from the alternator to the battery was too thick for a short circuit to have melted it.
Long story short I set about taking the fuse box out to see if I could get a look behind and......
Not the best picture, but you see that big metal plate on the front of the fusebox? That's a fusible link and it should be, erm... linked all the way across. It's not and because it's moulded into the fuse box at the factory I need a whole new box. £100 from Citroen or £27 from a breakers on ebay.
Not the most expensive lesson in financial terms, but a whole morning lost and at least another one to get everything back together when the new fusebox arrives. Lesson learned.
Autosport next week and a bit of a shopping spree (costs so far including the car and all service parts, around £1500).
I finally got a bit of time on the car over Christmas, so first job was to drop the sump, no nasties but no pictures either as I was so keen to get on with the car I forgot to take any. Once the sump was back on, the oil/air separator panel went back on with liberal RCV sealant and a (not very interesting) picture as well:
So then back on with all the ancillaries and fire her up..... Well, almost. Someone forgot to connect up the alternator (I'd taped the wires out of the way) so it wasn't charging. Like a hero I found the fault immediately but in my self-congratulatory rush I forgot to disconnect the battery and shorted the wires against the bodywork; a big flash and, unbeknown to me at the time a PITA problem for later.
Anyway, nothing leaked so I called it a day.
Next time out it was 'make it look more like a racecar' day so I started on the interior. This was for two reasons, a) for myself, all I'd done so far was a service and b) so I could send Rich some pics that made it look like I was actually doing something.
Rear seats out:
Front seats out:
Trim, carpet and upper dash out:
Also took the sound deadening out (the deadening in total weighs about as much a a handkerchief, no wonder these cars are noisy on the motorway).
There wasn't much more I could do without the stuff we're going to be buying at Autosport next week or the cage, lower wishbones and modified driveshafts (all club parts that Rich is buying/has bought) so I thought I'd start it up and drain the gearbox oil ready to swap the driveshafts and wishbones over.
It was then I noticed that the battery and power steering lights didn't go out when the car was running.
I checked the alternator, there was current. I checked the fuses in the fuse box, they were all intact. I checked the continuity from the alternator to the battery - nothing. Bugger. Those sparks when I refitted the alternator terminals had something to do with it I'm sure.
So in desperation I turned to the Haynes manual. The wiring diagram has a master fuse yet the entire manual fails to mention it's location or even that the car has one. I traced the wires from the alternator, having to take apart a lot of the bits I'd recently reassembled - nothing. There was definitely a broken link and a fuse was the only logical reason, the cable running from the alternator to the battery was too thick for a short circuit to have melted it.
Long story short I set about taking the fuse box out to see if I could get a look behind and......
Not the best picture, but you see that big metal plate on the front of the fusebox? That's a fusible link and it should be, erm... linked all the way across. It's not and because it's moulded into the fuse box at the factory I need a whole new box. £100 from Citroen or £27 from a breakers on ebay.
Not the most expensive lesson in financial terms, but a whole morning lost and at least another one to get everything back together when the new fusebox arrives. Lesson learned.
Autosport next week and a bit of a shopping spree (costs so far including the car and all service parts, around £1500).
Edited by Mark Benson on Wednesday 4th January 13:49
So, we've been shopping at Autosport.
I'm currently waiting for a big Demon Tweeks delivery as I type (although it's 'out for delivery' with Parcelfarce, so it's probably in France or somewhere), but in the meantime I've been finding out just why you always, always disconnect the battery when working on the car's electrics. What. A. Pain.
To recap - I blew the main fuse which is moulded into the main fusebox on the car - so just buy another fusebox I thought, swap it in and solve the problem.
Oh no. It wouldn't be that simple.
£27 bought a box from a breakers, and the first thing I discovered was that half the plugs from the loom into the box do not want to be removed. At all. And this is on the bench where I can get at the underside of the fusebox, not in the car where access is severely limited.
So I did what any self respecting bloke would do, I took it apart.
An intact master fuse, and some very, very stubborn multiplugs:
Many, many pieces:
That's the bit we want, but how do I get it into the existing fusebox?
Ah yes, powertools are the answer:
An intact fusible link in the original fusebox:
So, off to Autosport and a good poke about a semi-finished car on the BARC stand and a good chat with someone official, who's name I didn't catch but Rich seemed to know (he's good at business stuff and talking to people without upsetting them so I leave that side of things to him):
Nice to see another 'not red' car being built:
Same seat as us. In the background is the official person (red jumper) talking to someone I recognise but can't place:
Cage in situ, but the shoulder straps are bolted to the floor
Home again and waiting for the big order from Demon Tweeks, Lifeline and a load of other places, I started making a panel for the cut off and extinguisher.
Rivnutted ally plate and a big hole cut out for cables:
And a plate cut to go round the cup holders - endurance racing takes ages, we might want a McDonalds Coke on the Kemmel straight. Always thinking ahead you see.
More drivel like this when the goodies arrive. Apologies if it's all a bit too detailed, it's as much for me to document as for anything else (and to publicly self-flagellate about the stupid mistake blowing the main fuse, can't beat a Catholic upbringing....).
I'm currently waiting for a big Demon Tweeks delivery as I type (although it's 'out for delivery' with Parcelfarce, so it's probably in France or somewhere), but in the meantime I've been finding out just why you always, always disconnect the battery when working on the car's electrics. What. A. Pain.
To recap - I blew the main fuse which is moulded into the main fusebox on the car - so just buy another fusebox I thought, swap it in and solve the problem.
Oh no. It wouldn't be that simple.
£27 bought a box from a breakers, and the first thing I discovered was that half the plugs from the loom into the box do not want to be removed. At all. And this is on the bench where I can get at the underside of the fusebox, not in the car where access is severely limited.
So I did what any self respecting bloke would do, I took it apart.
An intact master fuse, and some very, very stubborn multiplugs:
Many, many pieces:
That's the bit we want, but how do I get it into the existing fusebox?
Ah yes, powertools are the answer:
An intact fusible link in the original fusebox:
So, off to Autosport and a good poke about a semi-finished car on the BARC stand and a good chat with someone official, who's name I didn't catch but Rich seemed to know (he's good at business stuff and talking to people without upsetting them so I leave that side of things to him):
Nice to see another 'not red' car being built:
Same seat as us. In the background is the official person (red jumper) talking to someone I recognise but can't place:
Cage in situ, but the shoulder straps are bolted to the floor
Home again and waiting for the big order from Demon Tweeks, Lifeline and a load of other places, I started making a panel for the cut off and extinguisher.
Rivnutted ally plate and a big hole cut out for cables:
And a plate cut to go round the cup holders - endurance racing takes ages, we might want a McDonalds Coke on the Kemmel straight. Always thinking ahead you see.
More drivel like this when the goodies arrive. Apologies if it's all a bit too detailed, it's as much for me to document as for anything else (and to publicly self-flagellate about the stupid mistake blowing the main fuse, can't beat a Catholic upbringing....).
Good work. We were on the BRSCC stand next door, went and had a long chat about this as we are putting one together as well following a chat at RoR. Currently trying to find a donor car that is NOT RED (very unusual for us, two of the three guys in the team race red cars elsewhere) I did notice a few entertaining things on the show car, no door cards, harness angles and the like but its a show car that's what they are for 
many a motorsport show car i have seen with fully blacked out windows because inside they are either empty or standard cars 
When does your cage arrive?
Also will you be ordering your rubber pre-shaved? (matron!)
many a motorsport show car i have seen with fully blacked out windows because inside they are either empty or standard cars When does your cage arrive?
Also will you be ordering your rubber pre-shaved? (matron!)
Tip for the rivnuts - put some Araldite on the back, it will stop/help them stay in place.
WRT the multiplugs - the only way I know of getting them out is using a screwdriver as a lever, there isn't enough plug to release the tag and pull the buggers out!
We used to shave tyres using a Surform file with the wheel on a tyre balancer.
Very messy and it didn't do the balancer much good!
ETA: Track day at Elvington would be a good way to 'shave' the tyres?
WRT the multiplugs - the only way I know of getting them out is using a screwdriver as a lever, there isn't enough plug to release the tag and pull the buggers out!
We used to shave tyres using a Surform file with the wheel on a tyre balancer.
Very messy and it didn't do the balancer much good!
ETA: Track day at Elvington would be a good way to 'shave' the tyres?
Edited by skeggysteve on Thursday 19th January 19:14
carylwills said:
A good place to get a C1 is Copart, which is where I got mine for £720. It was a CAT D with a broken headlight and cracked bumper. It had 1 owner from new, 27k miles and had been serviced the week before it got hit.
The Copart experience was OK, but their fees get up your nose - mine were £110, but I got a great car and only had to spend £100 to get a new bumper and head light.
We took it to Mallory Park for its first test day. It was the car Will Beaumont of Evo magazine drove in the Anglesey 24hr. It also raced at the Spa 24hr race in October.
It brilliant fun and low cost. My engine got buzzed at Anglesey (not by Will) and I picked up a new one from a breaker with 4.5k miles for £265.
Parts for the build are available on the c1racing.club website. I hope to see you at Pembrey in July or possibly in Belgium or France sooner.
How?? I'd love another C1 again. Supercharge etc project.The Copart experience was OK, but their fees get up your nose - mine were £110, but I got a great car and only had to spend £100 to get a new bumper and head light.
We took it to Mallory Park for its first test day. It was the car Will Beaumont of Evo magazine drove in the Anglesey 24hr. It also raced at the Spa 24hr race in October.
It brilliant fun and low cost. My engine got buzzed at Anglesey (not by Will) and I picked up a new one from a breaker with 4.5k miles for £265.
Parts for the build are available on the c1racing.club website. I hope to see you at Pembrey in July or possibly in Belgium or France sooner.
geeks said:
Good work. We were on the BRSCC stand next door, went and had a long chat about this as we are putting one together as well following a chat at RoR. Currently trying to find a donor car that is NOT RED (very unusual for us, two of the three guys in the team race red cars elsewhere) I did notice a few entertaining things on the show car, no door cards, harness angles and the like but its a show car that's what they are for many a motorsport show car i have seen with fully blacked out windows because inside they are either empty or standard cars
When does your cage arrive?
Also will you be ordering your rubber pre-shaved? (matron!)
We have a cage, it's just that it's currently sitting somewhere down south, Rich is coming up to do some many a motorsport show car i have seen with fully blacked out windows because inside they are either empty or standard cars When does your cage arrive?
Also will you be ordering your rubber pre-shaved? (matron!)
And yes, we'll be shaving our rubber, that's one of the few jobs I've entrusted to Rich.
Steve - I put red threadlock on the rivnuts, araldite is too messy (plus I have a mandrel for my air riveter so they're not likely to come loose anyway).
And Elvington would destroy tyres (as we know!) on this, road tread would just disintegrate. At least like everything they're cheap though, £40 or so a corner, I'm used to paying 5 or 6 times that.
Plate for the cutoff, spotlight switch and extinguisher pull finished. Will install it once the cage is in - hopefully this weekend for the trial fit and marking up the feet, then I need to find a decent welder to neatly weld the feet in (my welding is not neat).
Put the steering wheel in too, forgot to take a picture but it looks tiny (30cm wheel, so it is tiny) but kind of suits the car.
Put the steering wheel in too, forgot to take a picture but it looks tiny (30cm wheel, so it is tiny) but kind of suits the car.
A Very productive weekend on the car. Rich came up on Thursday evening and we had all day Friday, all day Saturday and half of Sunday to work on it. We were also very restrained at a Burns night party on Saturday night, resisting the temptation of many, many excellent whiskies, so we could be up on Sunday morning. Now that's dedication.
Picture heavy update:
Friday morning, we needed to drill out spot welds holding 'cups' on top of the rear turrets and remove the lower dash to accommodate the cage for trial fitting and marking of the weld-in feet.
Buying the correct drill bit for the job helps immensely with the former, drill through and whack with a cold chisel:
I set Rich about removing the lower dash, I should state for the record he's done very little 'hands on' car work; he's a businessman and so this is all new to him but it's fair to say he learned a lot this weekend. First lesson was the shortcomings of a Haynes manual where it claims most parts can be 'eased out of position' or 'slid easily away from the dash' when in fact nothing could be further from the truth - they're a handy guide but sometimes you just need to 'give it a good pull'
Rich having a go at the dash:
Dash out, it was time to unwrap the cage:
First up was the rear section with the main hoop, we needed to ratchet strap the feet closer to get it into the car, but once in it sat neatly in place.
We quickly manage to assemble the rest of the cage (no pics, it needed four hands as we found out when I was almost given concussion by a falling section we both thought the other had hold of), marking out the location of the holes in the weld-in 'feet' that the cage bolts to, allowing the captive nuts to sit inside the sills.
We then removed the cage again to drill. The Safety Devices instructions say to allow 25mm for the nuts but it's clear when looking at them that the welds holding the nuts are wider than 25mm and for the feet to sit flat on the car, we used (and destroyed) a 32mm holesaw:
A nice flush fit for the foot:
And the cage sitting back in the car on it's anchors, loosely bolted together. I'll need to take the car for welding then we'll bolt the cage in permanently:
Last job cage-wise is to install the brace bar across between the rear turrets, this bolts through the turret into a plate inside the wheelarch, one of the plates needed a bit of grinding to allow it to sit correctly but eventually it bolted in and we had the cage 'dry assembled':
Next up was the 'club' suspension, this is optional but who doesn't want adjustable dampers and nice machined billet aluminium stuff to play with? Unfortunately we got to this stage:
and found that one of the rear spring platforms wasn't machined correctly, the retaining bolt would only go into the ally spring seat about half way, so that's going back to Gaz this week and hopefully we can get a replacement quickly so I can reassemble the rear end.
Saturday was electrics day, we need to connect the FIA switch like this:
It's not as simple as simply cutting the battery cable, the alternator can surge when the battery power is cut, so that needs a route to earth and the requirements include a need to interrupt the signal from the ignition switch to the coils as otherwise the alternator will continue to provide power to the car and it will just keep running.
Not many pictures, but we started by creating another terminal in the engine bay to connect the 'main feed electrical circuit' in the diagram above into, it's the lower of the two positive terminals in this picture:
We then set about finding the live feed to the ignition switch. The Haynes manual is suitably vague so that was no use, I then managed to find some wiring diagrams for the Aygo online, but they were in Dutch. I was fairly sure they indicated that the live feed was blue on the loom, but didn't want to trust myself so Rich made a call to someone who's built a car and they confirmed we need to cut into the blue wire. It felt like I was in a film trying to defuse a bomb with someone at the end of the line saying "Cut the blue wire":
Not a particularly clear picture, but if you look at the multiplug in the centre of the picture you can see the end of the blue wire.
<Snip> no going back now.
Everything was wired up to the switch and we test fire............nothing.
Eventually we realised that we got the ends of the wires mixed up at the master switch in our anxiety at doing the ignition end, once we corrected that, we had a working master switch that cuts everything once activated. This felt like a real success.
Sunday was running pipework for the fire extinguisher system. the rules state there has to be two outlets in the engine bay and two in the cabin. They recommend one pointing at the fuel rail:
and one at the manifold:
I'll properly fit the bottle and finish the pipework once the cage is in.
Last job for the weekend was to cut down the dash as neatly as possible to fit between the cage, then refit the lower portion:
It'll need a bit of extra support, but a couple of aluminium brackets will do the trick.
It's starting to feel like a proper race car now. Next up is the club suspension kit, which extends the lower arms at the front of the car to give it camber and fitting all new springs and dampers.
We're biting the bullet and booking a test day at Croft on March 13th so the pressure's on a bit now.
Picture heavy update:
Friday morning, we needed to drill out spot welds holding 'cups' on top of the rear turrets and remove the lower dash to accommodate the cage for trial fitting and marking of the weld-in feet.
Buying the correct drill bit for the job helps immensely with the former, drill through and whack with a cold chisel:
I set Rich about removing the lower dash, I should state for the record he's done very little 'hands on' car work; he's a businessman and so this is all new to him but it's fair to say he learned a lot this weekend. First lesson was the shortcomings of a Haynes manual where it claims most parts can be 'eased out of position' or 'slid easily away from the dash' when in fact nothing could be further from the truth - they're a handy guide but sometimes you just need to 'give it a good pull'
Rich having a go at the dash:
Dash out, it was time to unwrap the cage:
First up was the rear section with the main hoop, we needed to ratchet strap the feet closer to get it into the car, but once in it sat neatly in place.
We quickly manage to assemble the rest of the cage (no pics, it needed four hands as we found out when I was almost given concussion by a falling section we both thought the other had hold of), marking out the location of the holes in the weld-in 'feet' that the cage bolts to, allowing the captive nuts to sit inside the sills.
We then removed the cage again to drill. The Safety Devices instructions say to allow 25mm for the nuts but it's clear when looking at them that the welds holding the nuts are wider than 25mm and for the feet to sit flat on the car, we used (and destroyed) a 32mm holesaw:
A nice flush fit for the foot:
And the cage sitting back in the car on it's anchors, loosely bolted together. I'll need to take the car for welding then we'll bolt the cage in permanently:
Last job cage-wise is to install the brace bar across between the rear turrets, this bolts through the turret into a plate inside the wheelarch, one of the plates needed a bit of grinding to allow it to sit correctly but eventually it bolted in and we had the cage 'dry assembled':
Next up was the 'club' suspension, this is optional but who doesn't want adjustable dampers and nice machined billet aluminium stuff to play with? Unfortunately we got to this stage:
and found that one of the rear spring platforms wasn't machined correctly, the retaining bolt would only go into the ally spring seat about half way, so that's going back to Gaz this week and hopefully we can get a replacement quickly so I can reassemble the rear end.
Saturday was electrics day, we need to connect the FIA switch like this:
It's not as simple as simply cutting the battery cable, the alternator can surge when the battery power is cut, so that needs a route to earth and the requirements include a need to interrupt the signal from the ignition switch to the coils as otherwise the alternator will continue to provide power to the car and it will just keep running.
Not many pictures, but we started by creating another terminal in the engine bay to connect the 'main feed electrical circuit' in the diagram above into, it's the lower of the two positive terminals in this picture:
We then set about finding the live feed to the ignition switch. The Haynes manual is suitably vague so that was no use, I then managed to find some wiring diagrams for the Aygo online, but they were in Dutch. I was fairly sure they indicated that the live feed was blue on the loom, but didn't want to trust myself so Rich made a call to someone who's built a car and they confirmed we need to cut into the blue wire. It felt like I was in a film trying to defuse a bomb with someone at the end of the line saying "Cut the blue wire":
Not a particularly clear picture, but if you look at the multiplug in the centre of the picture you can see the end of the blue wire.
<Snip> no going back now.
Everything was wired up to the switch and we test fire............nothing.
Eventually we realised that we got the ends of the wires mixed up at the master switch in our anxiety at doing the ignition end, once we corrected that, we had a working master switch that cuts everything once activated. This felt like a real success.
Sunday was running pipework for the fire extinguisher system. the rules state there has to be two outlets in the engine bay and two in the cabin. They recommend one pointing at the fuel rail:
and one at the manifold:
I'll properly fit the bottle and finish the pipework once the cage is in.
Last job for the weekend was to cut down the dash as neatly as possible to fit between the cage, then refit the lower portion:
It'll need a bit of extra support, but a couple of aluminium brackets will do the trick.
It's starting to feel like a proper race car now. Next up is the club suspension kit, which extends the lower arms at the front of the car to give it camber and fitting all new springs and dampers.
We're biting the bullet and booking a test day at Croft on March 13th so the pressure's on a bit now.
Edited by Mark Benson on Monday 30th January 10:38
Krikkit said:
jamiebae said:
This looks like a great project. Is there a view on 3 or 5 door being the best option, or is it just a case of getting hold of whatever you can?
3-door body is mandated in the regs.
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