Not Your Everyday Race Car - The Mighty Citroen
Discussion
skeggysteve said:
Looking good Mark.
I'll try and get cover for March 13th and come and enjoy the delights of Croft again!
I assume that you've got a decent trailer this time?
It still has number plates and an MOT Steve. Rich has a good trailer, but I'll be driving it the 5 miles to Croft I'll try and get cover for March 13th and come and enjoy the delights of Croft again!
I assume that you've got a decent trailer this time?
Short update - fired up by the weekend's progress, I went out last night and fitted the wiring for the club approved Masai spotlights so that I can start trimming the upper dash to fit round the cage, that's then the wiring and piping done from inside to out so I can wire in the laptimer, refit the dash permanently and move on to mechanicals.
I've been hunting down a decent welder via local racing friends and have a few options now, but before I can take the car to be welded I need to be able to close the doors (I'll be driving it there as the car is still road legal). At the moment they foul on the cage, and the cage has to be in when I get to the welders so that they can tack weld it in the right place, remove the cage and then seam weld the spreaders properly.
I could take the door trim off completely, but it's not too difficult to make the cuts needed with the right tool, so last night I set about hacking them to bits.
As usual, the Haynes manual was blasé, suggesting the window winder would come off by 'inserting a wide bladed tool between the handle and the door trim and wiggling the handle while pulling'. In actual fact there's a spring clip which, unless it's released absolutely refuses to let the handle go. It took an age to discover this, as the handle and trim are so close together.
In fact, when the handle wouldn't come off I thought I might be able to cut the trim in situ:
But it soon became apparent that some of the angles were too tight to get the tool into. A word about the tool also - my joiner showed me this a few years ago when we were laying wooden flooring, they're perfect for cutting plastic dashboards and the like and make the job so much easier, well worth the money if you have something like this to do.
In less time than it took me to remove the window handle, I'd managed this:
I also got the rear spring mount from Gaz today which means as long as I get the 12mm hex attachment I ordered I can assemble the new rear suspension this evening - another step to getting the car on the road and to the welders.
I could take the door trim off completely, but it's not too difficult to make the cuts needed with the right tool, so last night I set about hacking them to bits.
As usual, the Haynes manual was blasé, suggesting the window winder would come off by 'inserting a wide bladed tool between the handle and the door trim and wiggling the handle while pulling'. In actual fact there's a spring clip which, unless it's released absolutely refuses to let the handle go. It took an age to discover this, as the handle and trim are so close together.
In fact, when the handle wouldn't come off I thought I might be able to cut the trim in situ:
But it soon became apparent that some of the angles were too tight to get the tool into. A word about the tool also - my joiner showed me this a few years ago when we were laying wooden flooring, they're perfect for cutting plastic dashboards and the like and make the job so much easier, well worth the money if you have something like this to do.
In less time than it took me to remove the window handle, I'd managed this:
I also got the rear spring mount from Gaz today which means as long as I get the 12mm hex attachment I ordered I can assemble the new rear suspension this evening - another step to getting the car on the road and to the welders.
As above, it's expected that the 4 hour race at Snett will be £700 entry fees.
Only one set of tyres needed for a 4 hour race, plus fuel of course, which we'll work out a bit more accurately when we have our first test (which to answer the question above could well be Croft on March 13th, if not then early April) and wear and tear.
I'd say on top of initial costs for the car and conversion, testing, travel and accom. you could budget a grand per 4 hour race and you'll be about right, more if something breaks and factor in consumables (oil, pads etc.).
Only one set of tyres needed for a 4 hour race, plus fuel of course, which we'll work out a bit more accurately when we have our first test (which to answer the question above could well be Croft on March 13th, if not then early April) and wear and tear.
I'd say on top of initial costs for the car and conversion, testing, travel and accom. you could budget a grand per 4 hour race and you'll be about right, more if something breaks and factor in consumables (oil, pads etc.).
Edited by Mark Benson on Thursday 2nd February 14:52
Edited by Mark Benson on Thursday 2nd February 15:23
Remove the seats by all means as they're easy to reinstall, but the dash / door panels are unnecessary removals and has effectively reduced the car to scrap at the end of your use.
How much time do you expect to gain by removing ~500 grams worth of plastic door card? Too much faffing for me; keep the interior and port the head, that's how the winning vehicle will have been modified.
How much time do you expect to gain by removing ~500 grams worth of plastic door card? Too much faffing for me; keep the interior and port the head, that's how the winning vehicle will have been modified.
Sir Lord Poopie said:
Remove the seats by all means as they're easy to reinstall, but the dash / door panels are unnecessary removals and has effectively reduced the car to scrap at the end of your use.
How much time do you expect to gain by removing ~500 grams worth of plastic door card? Too much faffing for me; keep the interior and port the head, that's how the winning vehicle will have been modified.
How much time do you expect to gain by removing ~500 grams worth of plastic door card? Too much faffing for me; keep the interior and port the head, that's how the winning vehicle will have been modified.
The car was effectively one step away from scrap when we bought it, it's a 10 year old city car with a Cat D marker on it. It'll only ever be a race car from now on.
The rules state the door cars are to be retained, but they need to be trimmed to fit round the door bars of the cage.
And the rules also state no head work, in fact no changes to the engine at all and only club permitted changes to the drivetrain so the winning vehicle won't have been ported, as it would have been disqualified.
Mark Benson said:
Sir Lord Poopie said:
Remove the seats by all means as they're easy to reinstall, but the dash / door panels are unnecessary removals and has effectively reduced the car to scrap at the end of your use.
How much time do you expect to gain by removing ~500 grams worth of plastic door card? Too much faffing for me; keep the interior and port the head, that's how the winning vehicle will have been modified.
How much time do you expect to gain by removing ~500 grams worth of plastic door card? Too much faffing for me; keep the interior and port the head, that's how the winning vehicle will have been modified.
- snip*
Not sure why so negative from Poopie - how can you fit a cage without trimming the door cards?
I'll just leave this here for any future 'just turbo it' queries:
http://c1racing.club/wp-content/uploads/documents/...
Awesome build Mark, I'm on the look out for a donor car now to hopefully get on the grid by Snetterton, might see you there!
http://c1racing.club/wp-content/uploads/documents/...
Awesome build Mark, I'm on the look out for a donor car now to hopefully get on the grid by Snetterton, might see you there!
It still really bothers me that the door cards have to remain, cutting htem looks crap, why cant they do what every other race series does and allow us to bin them and panel over? I know the plastic has to be cut to fit the cage but this just makes it look shoddy!
Also did you see the storm in a teacup on facebook when someone flocked there dashboard?
Also did you see the storm in a teacup on facebook when someone flocked there dashboard?
geeks said:
It still really bothers me that the door cards have to remain, cutting htem looks crap, why cant they do what every other race series does and allow us to bin them and panel over? I know the plastic has to be cut to fit the cage but this just makes it look shoddy!
Also did you see the storm in a teacup on facebook when someone flocked there dashboard?
Flockgate!Also did you see the storm in a teacup on facebook when someone flocked there dashboard?
I know what you mean about the door cards, I'm going to try and find something to neaten them up (but it's low on my priorities list).
Must admit that the 2CVs never did it for me, although I recognise the skill in keeping the momentum up and driving them quickly.
I like the idea of the C1/Aygo/ 107 series. I also wondered about having a multi class series for cars like original Mini 1000, air cooled VW Beetle and the Smart car.
I like the idea of the C1/Aygo/ 107 series. I also wondered about having a multi class series for cars like original Mini 1000, air cooled VW Beetle and the Smart car.
As I understand it, this is going to be a separate series.
There are around 15 cars built or in the process and a few more with the intention of doing so, which makes it look viable as a standalone series. The original intention was to piggyback on the 2CV championship, but there was opposition to that from the 2CVs and at the same time quite a response to the idea from prospective C1 racers.
It seems to have caught people's imagination as it did ours; OK the cars aren't exactly firebreathing monsters but they're equal so it's down to the drivers and cost of entry is relatively accessible.
For example, this car's modifications are such that I can do them myself. I've had a fair bit of experience tinkering and I know what a race car should look and feel like, but I couldn't build a competitive race car for say Modern Classics, the series we raced in last year - the engine mods alone would put me off - and certainly not for £5-6k (which is what this one looks to be costing, but we're not skimping on parts).
The other thing of course is that the races are between 4 and 24 hours long, which you simply can't do on a budget anymore.
Anyway, progress over the weekend:
Rear suspension built back up after a replacement spring platform from Gaz:
Door cards back in:
Steering wheel and pedals fitted and a general tidy up. Had to get the horn working as it's required for the MOT but there's only one wire, the circuit completes through the steering wheel chassis so I added a short wire to the steering wheel boss and connected it to the horn push in the centre of the new wheel.
There are around 15 cars built or in the process and a few more with the intention of doing so, which makes it look viable as a standalone series. The original intention was to piggyback on the 2CV championship, but there was opposition to that from the 2CVs and at the same time quite a response to the idea from prospective C1 racers.
It seems to have caught people's imagination as it did ours; OK the cars aren't exactly firebreathing monsters but they're equal so it's down to the drivers and cost of entry is relatively accessible.
For example, this car's modifications are such that I can do them myself. I've had a fair bit of experience tinkering and I know what a race car should look and feel like, but I couldn't build a competitive race car for say Modern Classics, the series we raced in last year - the engine mods alone would put me off - and certainly not for £5-6k (which is what this one looks to be costing, but we're not skimping on parts).
The other thing of course is that the races are between 4 and 24 hours long, which you simply can't do on a budget anymore.
Anyway, progress over the weekend:
Rear suspension built back up after a replacement spring platform from Gaz:
Door cards back in:
Steering wheel and pedals fitted and a general tidy up. Had to get the horn working as it's required for the MOT but there's only one wire, the circuit completes through the steering wheel chassis so I added a short wire to the steering wheel boss and connected it to the horn push in the centre of the new wheel.
starting to look pretty good.
You need something like this for the door cards:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Car-Parts/section-black...
You need something like this for the door cards:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Car-Parts/section-black...
andy97 said:
I like the idea of the C1/Aygo/ 107 series. I also wondered about having a multi class series for cars like original Mini 1000, air cooled VW Beetle and the Smart car.
I'm going to add the Ford Ka to my own list. Multi class but all to the same standard philosophy as the C1, and whilst equality is never achievable between different makes, you could have similar power to weight ratios. Prizes for overall and for I each of the individual one make classes.Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff