2001 Toyota Altezza RS200 (Lexus IS200 with 210bhp BEAMS)
Discussion
Brilliant cars. There's two variants of the Legana bumper (The super aggressive prefacelift and much rarer facelift), genuine items generally fetch £500+. Fibreglass items are available for alot less but the fit is generally cack. Altezzas are a very different beast to the IS200 despite looking the same; lighter, stiffer, shorter diff ratio and better suspension mean they're a much tighter drive and the BEAMS engine is awesome. Watch out for bottom ends going; like any highly strung old engine (any jap performance engine or BMW S series engines for example) they have a habit of doing bottom ends after 120k or so; it's worth putting some new shells in when you get it and having the peace of mind.
Ireland is chock full of these, there's a big scene over there with people keeping them as minters, ragging them round cones, going drifting, or just decking them and ragging down lanes. Regardless of what you think of the scene it's a great place for parts and info as chances are if you have an issue or you're looking for a part, someone will have had the same experience and will be able to point you in the right direction. IMO to really bring them alive they need a light flywheel, decent clutch, coilovers and a plated LSD but even in stock form they are a brilliant drive. Would have one over a 330i any day.
Also make sure you get proper 13x6.5 jap plates on it, nothing worse than genuine imports with poxy UK sized plates on!
Ireland is chock full of these, there's a big scene over there with people keeping them as minters, ragging them round cones, going drifting, or just decking them and ragging down lanes. Regardless of what you think of the scene it's a great place for parts and info as chances are if you have an issue or you're looking for a part, someone will have had the same experience and will be able to point you in the right direction. IMO to really bring them alive they need a light flywheel, decent clutch, coilovers and a plated LSD but even in stock form they are a brilliant drive. Would have one over a 330i any day.
Also make sure you get proper 13x6.5 jap plates on it, nothing worse than genuine imports with poxy UK sized plates on!
Edited by Gooly on Wednesday 8th February 18:31
Always had a thing for the original IS. The subsequent generations never did anything for me.
They missed a trick by not offering the IS300 with a manual this side of the pond. I was tempted by an IS200 a few years ago as despite being quite thirsty for its relatively modest output, it's a sweet straight six and feels very well balanced especially in Sport spec. The pipe dream was to get one and do a 1JZ-GTE swap.
Out of interest, what sort of figure would one be looking at, all in, with fees, duty, etc if buying from auction and shipping a nice Altezza from the land of the rising sun? Engine aside, is the remaining running gear basically a 1st generation IS?
They missed a trick by not offering the IS300 with a manual this side of the pond. I was tempted by an IS200 a few years ago as despite being quite thirsty for its relatively modest output, it's a sweet straight six and feels very well balanced especially in Sport spec. The pipe dream was to get one and do a 1JZ-GTE swap.
Out of interest, what sort of figure would one be looking at, all in, with fees, duty, etc if buying from auction and shipping a nice Altezza from the land of the rising sun? Engine aside, is the remaining running gear basically a 1st generation IS?
Rosewood Red said:
They missed a trick by not offering the IS300 with a manual this side of the pond. I was tempted by an IS200 a few years ago as despite being quite thirsty for its relatively modest output, it's a sweet straight six and feels very well balanced especially in Sport spec. The pipe dream was to get one and do a 1JZ-GTE swap.
?
Tooo right I'd have one. ?
As it happens I just bought another IS200 at the weekend. Like yourself a 1JZ conversion would be superb, perhaps more short term I may just turbo/supercharge the existing engine.
So... An update!
For the past few months I had been focussing on selling the GTR for our remortgage later in the year. Now that it is gone my attention has moved back to the Altezza.
The car went through its MOT fine with a couple of advisories on low tyre tread and nothing else which is a relief! The documentation is now all with the DVLA. Fingers crossed they don't balls it up!
The main reason being that we are now going to Le Mans. And in support of Toyota after last year's heartbreak we'll be taking the Altezza as well as the following!
We are staying with Pistonheads and can't wait. If you see us (or hear us, the Lexus manifold is blowing to f
k) come and say hello!
For the past few months I had been focussing on selling the GTR for our remortgage later in the year. Now that it is gone my attention has moved back to the Altezza.
The car went through its MOT fine with a couple of advisories on low tyre tread and nothing else which is a relief! The documentation is now all with the DVLA. Fingers crossed they don't balls it up!
The main reason being that we are now going to Le Mans. And in support of Toyota after last year's heartbreak we'll be taking the Altezza as well as the following!
We are staying with Pistonheads and can't wait. If you see us (or hear us, the Lexus manifold is blowing to f
k) come and say hello!Edited by bicycleshorts on Wednesday 17th May 23:09
aka_kerrly said:
I believe there are more differences than just the engine. The Altezza RS200 is built as more of a Toyota sports car where as the IS200 is a Lexus more focused on luxury/refinement.
A RS200 has better seats /interior/carpets, is lighter by over 100kg, different gearbox ratios/final drive, lsd, different suspension, often come with TRD bodykits so look far better than a standard model.
I must say that the RS200 is a car that has always intrigued me from the perspective of a good all-rounder and potential alternative to my 330. However, I think I'd need to drive one to be completely sold, as it doesn't seem to stack up all that well on paper.A RS200 has better seats /interior/carpets, is lighter by over 100kg, different gearbox ratios/final drive, lsd, different suspension, often come with TRD bodykits so look far better than a standard model.
Power/weight ratio is roughly the same, but with significantly less torque. Peak power at 7600prm is good, without being completely bonkers. As for the trim, I'd definitely be plumping for leather/nav etc. for a daily/family car. Those 'lightweight' specials seem like a good idea until you're doing a long motorway drive with a crying child...
Time for an overdue update!
All 3 cars made it to and from Le Mans perfectly. Except for the LS400 which had a sticky thermostat, having full heating through the vents in the car was unpleasant to say the least in 34°C on the Dartford Crossing.
Sadly not the result we wanted for Toyota, but we had a blast and the Pistonheads/1st Tickets camp site was great.
We also amassed enough flies on each car to make them an endangered species in France:
The eagle eyed amongst you will note the car is now on different wheels. I'd fancied a change having had standard IS/Altezza wheels on the wife's Lexus for the last 2 years. These are Evo 6 OZ wheels with rainsports all round.
Having now put 6,000km on the car in 3 months, I'll put up a more detailed write up soon. The main takeaway so far is what a peach the engine is, it doesn't really come on until about 5,000rpm but then sings all the way to 8 and a bit.
All 3 cars made it to and from Le Mans perfectly. Except for the LS400 which had a sticky thermostat, having full heating through the vents in the car was unpleasant to say the least in 34°C on the Dartford Crossing.
Sadly not the result we wanted for Toyota, but we had a blast and the Pistonheads/1st Tickets camp site was great.
We also amassed enough flies on each car to make them an endangered species in France:
The eagle eyed amongst you will note the car is now on different wheels. I'd fancied a change having had standard IS/Altezza wheels on the wife's Lexus for the last 2 years. These are Evo 6 OZ wheels with rainsports all round.
Having now put 6,000km on the car in 3 months, I'll put up a more detailed write up soon. The main takeaway so far is what a peach the engine is, it doesn't really come on until about 5,000rpm but then sings all the way to 8 and a bit.
Firstly a bit more about the Altezza vs the IS200. I'm in a bit of an odd position as I still own the IS so can back to back them quite extensively!
Engine
In both cases, the engine is one of the strongest points IMO.
The straight 6 2 litre in the IS200 is wonderfully smooth right from low revs. It may only have ~150bhp but the short gearing means it's usable. The noise is great - amplified by a partially blowing backbox in my case! I've personally never found it slow - but I drove a 60bhp Ford KA for 3 years and still found that had enough power to overtake on Northumbrian B roads.
We've had the car for 2 years, other than regular servicing the only problem I've had is a single fuel injector failing on me. Car was happy to crawl back on 5 cyls and a replacement fuel rail inc. 6 newer injectors was only £50.
Overall, it makes the IS200 a great cruiser but also a decent town car. I'd certainly recommend them for anyone wanting something a bit different as their daily driver.
The BEAMS 4 pot is a very special engine indeed. When I owned my MK2 MR2 I longed for one of the final Revision 5 models which came with the BEAMS 3SGE. I know the engine is strong and workable, if not that tuneable, from my MR2 experience. This one however takes it to another level.
The pick up is rapid, with a noticeable jump around 5,000rpm when the cam timing changes. amongst other top trumps, standard compression is 11.5:1 with titanium valves. It'll rev all the way up to and just passed 8,000rpm. Peak power is at 7,600rpm so this is very much an engine you need to rev. Overtaking on a single carriageway will need 3rd (sometimes 2nd!), putting your foot down in 6th just won't work at all. A quote from a passenger recently was: "Does it ever stop revving?!"
Even having put 6,000km on the car, I still find myself in the wrong gear on occassion. The engine means the car is always involving, if not a little tiring at times!
A lot of people will talk about the thirstiness of the straight 6, the 4 pot isn't much better, but I don't do enough miles for it to matter to me for either car.
Transmission and Diff
I haven't done too much research but I believe the transmission, gear ratios and diff casings are the same. In the manual IS200 Sport and Altezzas, the differential is a Torsen LSD, found in other applications but notably the 1.8 import MX5s. It locks up well when needed, though in the IS200 it's very difficult to overpower the tyres unless its wet. The Altezza is a little better, but the 215 rears really don't offer much in the way of slip (especially after I fitted Rainsports).
HOWEVER, the final drive in the diffs is definitely different. Cruising at 70mph on the motorway in the Altezza is 4,000rpm! This results in rapid through gear acceleration offset with a terrible cruising gear. If I'm being picky, this is the worst part of the car. In particular maintaining speed with an engine that is constantly engine breaking/pulling through the revs is a bit annoying. However, I drove it to and from Le Mans from Scotland, arriving awake enough to enjoy a beer on behalf of PH so it can't be that bad!
Handling
My IS200 is a Sport, so it is lowered slightly from factory. Looking at both cars, the gap appears to be the same so I'm inclined to say they are sharing suspension and springs.
Both are higher mileage cars (~120,000). The suspension has held up well over those miles, however, there is a noticeable "settling" on initial turn in. Not sure if this is as they were from the factory, or a result of some slightly tired springs/bushes. Did anyone have one new to chip in?!
In any case, my plan is to put some Meister Rs on the car ahead of a European road trip in November.
Interior
The interior on the IS200 offers a lot of bang for your buck. Electric heated half or full leather seats, 6 disc multichanger (normally broken), historic sat nav and so on. In the Altezza, the opposite is true, they've really cut out as much unnecessary stuff as possible to save weight. The seats are all manual and cloth, there is no Sat Nav, I believe it is supposed to have the same radio/CD player but mine came with an incomprehensible Japanese lady who thinks I'm in Yokohama and shouts a lot instead (see pic below).
One of my biggest annoyances about both the IS and the Altezza is that the rear seats don't fold flat. I don't need this regularly but it's nice to have. The ski hatch does mean you can get a decent amount of timber in the car I recently found out.
That's about it in terms of a comparison! If anyone has any questions, let me know.
Engine
In both cases, the engine is one of the strongest points IMO.
The straight 6 2 litre in the IS200 is wonderfully smooth right from low revs. It may only have ~150bhp but the short gearing means it's usable. The noise is great - amplified by a partially blowing backbox in my case! I've personally never found it slow - but I drove a 60bhp Ford KA for 3 years and still found that had enough power to overtake on Northumbrian B roads.
We've had the car for 2 years, other than regular servicing the only problem I've had is a single fuel injector failing on me. Car was happy to crawl back on 5 cyls and a replacement fuel rail inc. 6 newer injectors was only £50.
Overall, it makes the IS200 a great cruiser but also a decent town car. I'd certainly recommend them for anyone wanting something a bit different as their daily driver.
The BEAMS 4 pot is a very special engine indeed. When I owned my MK2 MR2 I longed for one of the final Revision 5 models which came with the BEAMS 3SGE. I know the engine is strong and workable, if not that tuneable, from my MR2 experience. This one however takes it to another level.
The pick up is rapid, with a noticeable jump around 5,000rpm when the cam timing changes. amongst other top trumps, standard compression is 11.5:1 with titanium valves. It'll rev all the way up to and just passed 8,000rpm. Peak power is at 7,600rpm so this is very much an engine you need to rev. Overtaking on a single carriageway will need 3rd (sometimes 2nd!), putting your foot down in 6th just won't work at all. A quote from a passenger recently was: "Does it ever stop revving?!"
Even having put 6,000km on the car, I still find myself in the wrong gear on occassion. The engine means the car is always involving, if not a little tiring at times!
A lot of people will talk about the thirstiness of the straight 6, the 4 pot isn't much better, but I don't do enough miles for it to matter to me for either car.
Transmission and Diff
I haven't done too much research but I believe the transmission, gear ratios and diff casings are the same. In the manual IS200 Sport and Altezzas, the differential is a Torsen LSD, found in other applications but notably the 1.8 import MX5s. It locks up well when needed, though in the IS200 it's very difficult to overpower the tyres unless its wet. The Altezza is a little better, but the 215 rears really don't offer much in the way of slip (especially after I fitted Rainsports).
HOWEVER, the final drive in the diffs is definitely different. Cruising at 70mph on the motorway in the Altezza is 4,000rpm! This results in rapid through gear acceleration offset with a terrible cruising gear. If I'm being picky, this is the worst part of the car. In particular maintaining speed with an engine that is constantly engine breaking/pulling through the revs is a bit annoying. However, I drove it to and from Le Mans from Scotland, arriving awake enough to enjoy a beer on behalf of PH so it can't be that bad!
Handling
My IS200 is a Sport, so it is lowered slightly from factory. Looking at both cars, the gap appears to be the same so I'm inclined to say they are sharing suspension and springs.
Both are higher mileage cars (~120,000). The suspension has held up well over those miles, however, there is a noticeable "settling" on initial turn in. Not sure if this is as they were from the factory, or a result of some slightly tired springs/bushes. Did anyone have one new to chip in?!
In any case, my plan is to put some Meister Rs on the car ahead of a European road trip in November.
Interior
The interior on the IS200 offers a lot of bang for your buck. Electric heated half or full leather seats, 6 disc multichanger (normally broken), historic sat nav and so on. In the Altezza, the opposite is true, they've really cut out as much unnecessary stuff as possible to save weight. The seats are all manual and cloth, there is no Sat Nav, I believe it is supposed to have the same radio/CD player but mine came with an incomprehensible Japanese lady who thinks I'm in Yokohama and shouts a lot instead (see pic below).
One of my biggest annoyances about both the IS and the Altezza is that the rear seats don't fold flat. I don't need this regularly but it's nice to have. The ski hatch does mean you can get a decent amount of timber in the car I recently found out.
That's about it in terms of a comparison! If anyone has any questions, let me know.
Edited by bicycleshorts on Friday 25th August 13:16
So, now a quick update on the car...
I'm personally not a fan of the standard "Lexus" lights - possibly due to the propensity of Vauxhall Corsa owners to fit them when I was growing up. I'm also not a fan of the aftermarket options or "smoked" lights. As such, I had a go with some red vinyl and a red tint spray can. The vinyl was a complete disaster but the spray can worked pretty well!
The lights are a little dull, which I'm hoping I can add another coat of paint then polish them. Imo they look much better. If I get bored/come to sell, the paint will come back off with acetone:
The car also had another long trip at the weekend. 4 of us headed up to Ellon to check out the Brewdog Brewery. We stopped in Aviemore for a tasting and tour at Cairngorm Brewery as well. Both recommended.
However, it was the roads which really made it the trip worth it.
Having scared us all stless over the Cairngorm roads, our designated driver stopped at one of the higher points to let us enjoy a nice cold beer and take in the view. It looks scenic, but there was about a 50 mph wind!
We also saw some humourous road signs which appealed to our inner 12 year olds.
I'm personally not a fan of the standard "Lexus" lights - possibly due to the propensity of Vauxhall Corsa owners to fit them when I was growing up. I'm also not a fan of the aftermarket options or "smoked" lights. As such, I had a go with some red vinyl and a red tint spray can. The vinyl was a complete disaster but the spray can worked pretty well!
The lights are a little dull, which I'm hoping I can add another coat of paint then polish them. Imo they look much better. If I get bored/come to sell, the paint will come back off with acetone:
The car also had another long trip at the weekend. 4 of us headed up to Ellon to check out the Brewdog Brewery. We stopped in Aviemore for a tasting and tour at Cairngorm Brewery as well. Both recommended.
However, it was the roads which really made it the trip worth it.
Having scared us all s
tless over the Cairngorm roads, our designated driver stopped at one of the higher points to let us enjoy a nice cold beer and take in the view. It looks scenic, but there was about a 50 mph wind!We also saw some humourous road signs which appealed to our inner 12 year olds.
I remember my MR2 Rev 5 with the 'BEAMS' engine quite fondly back in the day.. Really quite a characterful engine for a 4-pot, coupled to sweeter, lighter NA gearbox and torson diff made it probably the best MR2 drivetrain combo I owned, over turbo or V6 engines (the 2GR-FE was good also, but was almost too powerful to properly use on the road, and coupled to the stonger but clunkier turbo gearbox).
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