Citroen Saxo VTS.
Discussion
April 2018 and next on the list was to get them god awful wheels and tyres off. The long term plan to rip the ancient tyres off, get the alloys blasted, powder coated in OE silver etc. For now though my girlfriend (Hannah) had a set of these lying around!
I was not willing to run decent tyres however until that poor alignment was sorted. Thankfully know some really nice guys who have a camera alignment machine; I was able to use this and fettle it myself! A country mile out on front toe, just as I'd suspected, track rod ends replaced without any adjustments afterwards! A huge surprise came when I changed the machine to the back to find all the values on the rear axle near perfect!
We now had a straight steering wheel and for the first time quality rubber. Once again another job that made the car feel reborn!
Next was the dreadful Frankenstein exhaust! Like a scrap yard assortment bin, all parts had rusted different amounts and were from totally different manufacturers which also meant it really wasn't a great fit!
I replaced it with a Scorpion SaxSport which I bought brand new then sold with my old VTR and we bought back for £50 when the guy decided to go for something else! Nonsensical man logic right there.. Any who the guy who had the exhaust for a while unlike me did not put his car on the ramp every month to clean underneath! It had gotten a bit dirty, but a little tar remover and washing up liquid was all this formerly waxed up exhaust needed to return to it former glory! The sax sport looks and sounds great and since the genuine exhaust parts are not available and never made the most of that little raspy 16v; it's a modification I'm happy to do!
When I owned the exhaust first time round on my old VTR, all detailed up!
After a year with someone else!
After some Autosol and Machine Polisher!
I had the front bumper off which revealed a little rot on one of the bumper brackets! I will attend to that at a later date as the bumper requires a respray at some point. For now I removed the fog lights, baked at low heat in the oven, split the glass and wiped that misty wispy condensation that often lurks in Saxo fog lights! I also changed the orange indicator bulbs in the lights for Phillips SilverVison, which surprisingly changes the look of the front lamp clusters quite a bit! Obviously detailed up the cooling fans etc while the bumper was off too!
I chose Total 10w40 for the Saxo engine and 75w80 for the gearbox. I replaced the plugs, fuel filter, air filter and gave the car a thorough checking over!
Everything checked out apart from one small matter. I checked for play up and down and side to side and nothing! A tip an old boy once gave me when I used to work at Citroen is to grab the wheel and a 5 to 5 position which me reveal some hidden play in a rear torsion beam axle such as the one found on a Saxo! Well hey presto, minuscule play! This was picked up by the MOT tester as was a tender brake pipe surrounding the rear axle!
My girlfriend decided the best plan of attack was to off road the car this coming winter and remove the rear axle and replace it with a refurbished and painted axle from IM Axles. While the axle is off, tend to any rot in the boot floor and rear arch area, stone chip and paint it. Re new the shocks and re pipe the rear brakes with copper. Thankfully we have brand new flexi hoses left over when I bought a new set when the fronts needed doing! Phew.. looks like I'll be busy as ever this winter!
To celebrate the fresh test ticket Hannah paid for a paintless dent repair on the whole car which a brave man undertook! It nearly cost the initial purchase price of the car but oh boy what a difference!
2016.
After. (You may notice the black badges, they are temporary as I inadvertently polished the sliver off of them!)
2016.
Smooth!
There was also may small parking dings which were attended to! The car was truly dent free and still fully original paint, no body filler, welding etc ever done!
In addition I gave the car a full machine polish with my new toy; a Meguiars MT230 DA polisher which I highly recommend!
While the paintwork was abused and heavily soiled when I got the car, it was beginning to look better. Although the scuffed bodykit was still to be attended to and the tarnished roof and bonnet proving difficult.
Bonnet after a machine polish!
With a fresh MOT and less faults than it had had for a long while but still far from where we wanted it we headed for the Lake District! It preformed faultlessly, which is odd really as an impeding fault was about to reveal itself..
Stick around for more!
Highest road in England.
Wastwater.
Back home and waxed up!
Thanks for reading. Danny.
I was not willing to run decent tyres however until that poor alignment was sorted. Thankfully know some really nice guys who have a camera alignment machine; I was able to use this and fettle it myself! A country mile out on front toe, just as I'd suspected, track rod ends replaced without any adjustments afterwards! A huge surprise came when I changed the machine to the back to find all the values on the rear axle near perfect!
We now had a straight steering wheel and for the first time quality rubber. Once again another job that made the car feel reborn!
Next was the dreadful Frankenstein exhaust! Like a scrap yard assortment bin, all parts had rusted different amounts and were from totally different manufacturers which also meant it really wasn't a great fit!
I replaced it with a Scorpion SaxSport which I bought brand new then sold with my old VTR and we bought back for £50 when the guy decided to go for something else! Nonsensical man logic right there.. Any who the guy who had the exhaust for a while unlike me did not put his car on the ramp every month to clean underneath! It had gotten a bit dirty, but a little tar remover and washing up liquid was all this formerly waxed up exhaust needed to return to it former glory! The sax sport looks and sounds great and since the genuine exhaust parts are not available and never made the most of that little raspy 16v; it's a modification I'm happy to do!
When I owned the exhaust first time round on my old VTR, all detailed up!
After a year with someone else!
After some Autosol and Machine Polisher!
I had the front bumper off which revealed a little rot on one of the bumper brackets! I will attend to that at a later date as the bumper requires a respray at some point. For now I removed the fog lights, baked at low heat in the oven, split the glass and wiped that misty wispy condensation that often lurks in Saxo fog lights! I also changed the orange indicator bulbs in the lights for Phillips SilverVison, which surprisingly changes the look of the front lamp clusters quite a bit! Obviously detailed up the cooling fans etc while the bumper was off too!
I chose Total 10w40 for the Saxo engine and 75w80 for the gearbox. I replaced the plugs, fuel filter, air filter and gave the car a thorough checking over!
Everything checked out apart from one small matter. I checked for play up and down and side to side and nothing! A tip an old boy once gave me when I used to work at Citroen is to grab the wheel and a 5 to 5 position which me reveal some hidden play in a rear torsion beam axle such as the one found on a Saxo! Well hey presto, minuscule play! This was picked up by the MOT tester as was a tender brake pipe surrounding the rear axle!
My girlfriend decided the best plan of attack was to off road the car this coming winter and remove the rear axle and replace it with a refurbished and painted axle from IM Axles. While the axle is off, tend to any rot in the boot floor and rear arch area, stone chip and paint it. Re new the shocks and re pipe the rear brakes with copper. Thankfully we have brand new flexi hoses left over when I bought a new set when the fronts needed doing! Phew.. looks like I'll be busy as ever this winter!
To celebrate the fresh test ticket Hannah paid for a paintless dent repair on the whole car which a brave man undertook! It nearly cost the initial purchase price of the car but oh boy what a difference!
2016.
After. (You may notice the black badges, they are temporary as I inadvertently polished the sliver off of them!)
2016.
Smooth!
There was also may small parking dings which were attended to! The car was truly dent free and still fully original paint, no body filler, welding etc ever done!
In addition I gave the car a full machine polish with my new toy; a Meguiars MT230 DA polisher which I highly recommend!
While the paintwork was abused and heavily soiled when I got the car, it was beginning to look better. Although the scuffed bodykit was still to be attended to and the tarnished roof and bonnet proving difficult.
Bonnet after a machine polish!
With a fresh MOT and less faults than it had had for a long while but still far from where we wanted it we headed for the Lake District! It preformed faultlessly, which is odd really as an impeding fault was about to reveal itself..
Stick around for more!
Highest road in England.
Wastwater.
Back home and waxed up!
Thanks for reading. Danny.
Edited by Willo26 on Saturday 24th November 19:15
Flying along then I'll hit you with another update!
So while not perfect yet, the little Saxo had been through the biggest transformation and more owners than ever before in its life! The road trip to the Lakes went off without a hitch, climbing effortlessly (if not noisily) up the highest mountain pass in England! Its small size made squeezing past family tourist SUV's much easier and its nippy handling and revvy engine made it a joy! As I mentioned before it had always been the same mature hands since new so the original engine, box and clutch all preformed strongly as you would expect! Anyone who tells you these cars eat gearboxes cannot drive or have bought a lemon. Driveshafts however, perhaps so..! Not that this car needed them!
No sooner than we got back from the Lake District it was arranged we was to go to Edinburgh to visit the better halves family! Confident on its impeccable performance I had no doubts!
In the mean time we got some new plip keys that actually worked!
So off to Edinburgh we went..
Silly O'Clock in the morning!
We split the journey pretty nicely travelling from North Yorkshire stopping for some fuel first, then half way roughly at Hexham to see a friend then 3/4 at Jedburgh for some lunch. This is when a problem appeared! Sat still at a junction, I watched the temperature gauge rise from half to full in seconds, red light flashing! Hastily we pulled up had some lunch and let the car cool!
It was a very hot day, as has been the case with this year and the car had only been used to short trips and furthermore had been sat for a while! I feared for the head gasket; not because I thought it was at fault (although everyone automatically assumes this when a car is overheating) but because I know running an engine over temperature is truly what knackers the head gasket hence the association!
Back on the road and the temperature behaved itself once again, it seemed to run fine air-cooled.
On the night we decided to park in the city centre! This journey did not go off without a hitch! Regular stops ensured the journey took us twice as long, the thing just would not stay cool! The coolant level looked slightly low but very hard to tell in the header tank as it's positioned awkwardly and not really opaque!
Trip over we headed home! The car hit a milestone (not literally).
50k!
The trip was brilliant, the car was not!
We travelled late and kept our speed up which meant the little Saxo ran air cooled and behaved temperature wise but been my girlfriends daily; I wasn't happy with these issues at all!
Because we car share and do only 5 miles a day from and to work, we suspected the problem had started during or after the Lake District trip, something we would not have picked up on, on short trips!
I got to work, stripping the front end off the Saxo and draining the coolant fully! We only got short of three litres way too little! However there was no evidence of a leak on our driveway or in the garage? I removed the radiator and flushed only to find it was impeccable and blockage free! I changed the thermostat and housing as a matter of procedure and gave the engine bay a thorough check for leakage especially round the timing area! Nothing not a drop! Checked the heater matrix area and all the carpets but nothing. Even had the car on my ramp at work and nothing could be identified!
Three litres of genuine coolant and de ionised water was put back in and after a good bleed through it appeared the problem was history.
That was until three weeks later when my girlfriend noticed the gauge rising in traffic.. Overheated again!
The cause would turn out to be a simple one but a fiddly job..!
For now though, thanks for reading.
Danny!
So while not perfect yet, the little Saxo had been through the biggest transformation and more owners than ever before in its life! The road trip to the Lakes went off without a hitch, climbing effortlessly (if not noisily) up the highest mountain pass in England! Its small size made squeezing past family tourist SUV's much easier and its nippy handling and revvy engine made it a joy! As I mentioned before it had always been the same mature hands since new so the original engine, box and clutch all preformed strongly as you would expect! Anyone who tells you these cars eat gearboxes cannot drive or have bought a lemon. Driveshafts however, perhaps so..! Not that this car needed them!
No sooner than we got back from the Lake District it was arranged we was to go to Edinburgh to visit the better halves family! Confident on its impeccable performance I had no doubts!
In the mean time we got some new plip keys that actually worked!
So off to Edinburgh we went..
Silly O'Clock in the morning!
We split the journey pretty nicely travelling from North Yorkshire stopping for some fuel first, then half way roughly at Hexham to see a friend then 3/4 at Jedburgh for some lunch. This is when a problem appeared! Sat still at a junction, I watched the temperature gauge rise from half to full in seconds, red light flashing! Hastily we pulled up had some lunch and let the car cool!
It was a very hot day, as has been the case with this year and the car had only been used to short trips and furthermore had been sat for a while! I feared for the head gasket; not because I thought it was at fault (although everyone automatically assumes this when a car is overheating) but because I know running an engine over temperature is truly what knackers the head gasket hence the association!
Back on the road and the temperature behaved itself once again, it seemed to run fine air-cooled.
On the night we decided to park in the city centre! This journey did not go off without a hitch! Regular stops ensured the journey took us twice as long, the thing just would not stay cool! The coolant level looked slightly low but very hard to tell in the header tank as it's positioned awkwardly and not really opaque!
Trip over we headed home! The car hit a milestone (not literally).
50k!
The trip was brilliant, the car was not!
We travelled late and kept our speed up which meant the little Saxo ran air cooled and behaved temperature wise but been my girlfriends daily; I wasn't happy with these issues at all!
Because we car share and do only 5 miles a day from and to work, we suspected the problem had started during or after the Lake District trip, something we would not have picked up on, on short trips!
I got to work, stripping the front end off the Saxo and draining the coolant fully! We only got short of three litres way too little! However there was no evidence of a leak on our driveway or in the garage? I removed the radiator and flushed only to find it was impeccable and blockage free! I changed the thermostat and housing as a matter of procedure and gave the engine bay a thorough check for leakage especially round the timing area! Nothing not a drop! Checked the heater matrix area and all the carpets but nothing. Even had the car on my ramp at work and nothing could be identified!
Three litres of genuine coolant and de ionised water was put back in and after a good bleed through it appeared the problem was history.
That was until three weeks later when my girlfriend noticed the gauge rising in traffic.. Overheated again!
The cause would turn out to be a simple one but a fiddly job..!
For now though, thanks for reading.
Danny!
Edited by Willo26 on Saturday 24th November 19:16
So June 2018 and after some digging I found.. A tell tale dried up ethylene glycol trail on the back of the sump! Bizarre I thought at first until I had my powerful LED torch up in the engine bay, buried up there was a plastic coolant outlet and sure enough had the dried up gunk on it! Very very slight loss of coolant was playing havoc with this sensitive little 16v TU5J4 engine!
I really couldn't find any information regarding this rear coolant outlet other than a few pictures! I realised that I would have to remove the inlet manifold to get to this troublesome part.
With fiddly Allen key screws and limited access taking the inlet off wasn't particularly enjoyable, however once off the access to the fault was great!
The new genuine replacement ordered from Citroen using my chassis number however was all back to front!
After some digging and showing the parts guy the one that came off the matter was put through Citroen technical which found my part, oddly corresponding to a Xsara Picasso 16v rather than a Saxo. Every single picture online showed the green one as above, so why my vehicle has this one on is a mystery although its certainly the one it came out the factory with! If anyone else has a Saxo/106 16v would love to know which type it has on!
The correct replacement against the old one, which if you squint has a hairline crack all the way around it!
While off we took the opportunity to clean up the inlet manifold and air box.
All built up and topped up with fresh stuff once more, this time I'm confident the system is properly bled and should prove reliable! It's nice to finally have it mechanically sound with all fresh fluids etc!
With fresh enthusiasm Hannah bought a couple of nice touches to lift the Saxo!
Lovely window sticker to replace dowdy old one!
Much fresher!
There are still problems though! Handbrake low effort on N/S believe it to be slightly seized calliper. Slight play in NSR axle bearing. Scuffed mirrors (got a brand new set to go on) Engine light intermittent as it doesn't seem to like the SaxSport cat, clicky top mounts when turning side to side, many scuffs to body kit which look better after a polish but creep back over time!
Body shell wise I haven't really mentioned so far but fear not; I'm not naive! Despite it being a good shell I'm well aware that it isn't perfect!
The jacking points don't look brilliant..
The rear arch at one side is separating layers..
Lower cross member has surface rust..
Inner wings aren't looking too bad however I imagine something will be lurking if only minor!
Rear arch where fuel filler is, sometimes a bad spot!
Boot floor surface rust.
This post is probably the last I will do for a while as you are now up to date! I've been firing out updates to try and get to where we are today and due to the passage of time there are things I have forgotten or missed which over time I'll include or elaborate. I'll now be uploading more infrequent and this thread has turned into a current rather than perspective!
The little Saxo has purpose and has proved to be a decent car which was the original mission of purchase! It's changed hands and my girlfriend is extremely willing to get this car perfect; whatever it takes. Plans for this winter include taking it off road (Winter car post possibly on the way!) and replacing the rear axle with a refurbished part from IM axles, repiping the rear brakes, stripping and protecting the boot floor and refurbishing the OE alloys with new quality rubber to finish! Beyond plans include engine removal and further body shell tidying and protection! After getting this car to a reasonable standard, the real work now begins!
For now thats me!
Regards, Danny.
I really couldn't find any information regarding this rear coolant outlet other than a few pictures! I realised that I would have to remove the inlet manifold to get to this troublesome part.
With fiddly Allen key screws and limited access taking the inlet off wasn't particularly enjoyable, however once off the access to the fault was great!
The new genuine replacement ordered from Citroen using my chassis number however was all back to front!
After some digging and showing the parts guy the one that came off the matter was put through Citroen technical which found my part, oddly corresponding to a Xsara Picasso 16v rather than a Saxo. Every single picture online showed the green one as above, so why my vehicle has this one on is a mystery although its certainly the one it came out the factory with! If anyone else has a Saxo/106 16v would love to know which type it has on!
The correct replacement against the old one, which if you squint has a hairline crack all the way around it!
While off we took the opportunity to clean up the inlet manifold and air box.
All built up and topped up with fresh stuff once more, this time I'm confident the system is properly bled and should prove reliable! It's nice to finally have it mechanically sound with all fresh fluids etc!
With fresh enthusiasm Hannah bought a couple of nice touches to lift the Saxo!
Lovely window sticker to replace dowdy old one!
Much fresher!
There are still problems though! Handbrake low effort on N/S believe it to be slightly seized calliper. Slight play in NSR axle bearing. Scuffed mirrors (got a brand new set to go on) Engine light intermittent as it doesn't seem to like the SaxSport cat, clicky top mounts when turning side to side, many scuffs to body kit which look better after a polish but creep back over time!
Body shell wise I haven't really mentioned so far but fear not; I'm not naive! Despite it being a good shell I'm well aware that it isn't perfect!
The jacking points don't look brilliant..
The rear arch at one side is separating layers..
Lower cross member has surface rust..
Inner wings aren't looking too bad however I imagine something will be lurking if only minor!
Rear arch where fuel filler is, sometimes a bad spot!
Boot floor surface rust.
This post is probably the last I will do for a while as you are now up to date! I've been firing out updates to try and get to where we are today and due to the passage of time there are things I have forgotten or missed which over time I'll include or elaborate. I'll now be uploading more infrequent and this thread has turned into a current rather than perspective!
The little Saxo has purpose and has proved to be a decent car which was the original mission of purchase! It's changed hands and my girlfriend is extremely willing to get this car perfect; whatever it takes. Plans for this winter include taking it off road (Winter car post possibly on the way!) and replacing the rear axle with a refurbished part from IM axles, repiping the rear brakes, stripping and protecting the boot floor and refurbishing the OE alloys with new quality rubber to finish! Beyond plans include engine removal and further body shell tidying and protection! After getting this car to a reasonable standard, the real work now begins!
For now thats me!
Regards, Danny.
Enjoyed reading this read, had a 1999 Posidon Blue VTR which i ran from brand new until 2012 when it had reached 81,000 miles. Rust had basically plagued rear window on the boot and passenger door sill and for some reason it was (if i remember correctly?) eating the rubbers on the wishbones. Got to the point i had an £800 repair bill after getting it through the MOT and had enough of it and bought an FN2 Type-R.
Sold it to a guy whose son raced them and wanted the engine for it, from MOT history it seems that it ran for another year on the road. Fantastic handling car and not had another car like it.
Sold it to a guy whose son raced them and wanted the engine for it, from MOT history it seems that it ran for another year on the road. Fantastic handling car and not had another car like it.
So I'll hit with one more update which may well be the last in a while!
Recently I've sold a vehicle, bought a winter car, been on a long deserved holiday and been very busy as per travelling the country with my job!
Saxo ownership has been fairly uneventful however which isn't bad news! Is it?
After an enjoyable summer and autumn, the time has come to off road the little Saxo for necessary repairs and preservation of the ageing body shell from the salty badness which we all hate! Now that I've sold a project, I have a spare lockup space where it can hide away which is all good!
So after a good clean of the body arches and underside, I removed all the tar it had gained from our hot summer (surpisingly visible on a black car) and hand polished the paint. I do want to attack it with a clay bar and machine polisher again but removing contamination and especially anything from the arches which would stay wet and or rot it; was my main goal.
I discovered a broken spring on the NS which was a surprise although lock to lock was a bit clicky I put that down to worn strut top bearings! This now presents us with a dillema however.. As described in an earlier post a refurbished axle from IM axles is on the cards due to slight play in the current one. This means new shocks new springs and new rear axle!
Is this a perfect time to lower the car? I was thinking 25mm/ 20mm front and rear respectively would be ideal to take away the slighty comical arch gap?
After the pre storage clean heres how things are..
Looks clean enough but what's lurking underneath!
Not bad on first inspection!
Over painted this when first bought as a preventative short term measure, doesn't seem to have worsened although I hate to think what I'll find when stripping!
The seams are bleeding out in places, again unsure what the stonechip could be hiding!
It was the rear arch at the drivers side which concerned me the most!
...
...
Certainly some work will be needed for this!
Plans then for the future then, straight away the rear axle is coming off, as are all the rear brake lines (the only two advisorys on MOT). Strip the boot floor and the rear arches and see whats left. Weld accordingly and protect. New shocks, new handbrake cables, new axle, discs and pads, new brake lines and flexis should see the back end right.. Thats before I've even touched the front! I can see this been off the road for longer than a winter..!
Your thoughts on the shell condition; wether we should go lower and the future plans would be much appreciated!
Regards, Danny.
Recently I've sold a vehicle, bought a winter car, been on a long deserved holiday and been very busy as per travelling the country with my job!
Saxo ownership has been fairly uneventful however which isn't bad news! Is it?
After an enjoyable summer and autumn, the time has come to off road the little Saxo for necessary repairs and preservation of the ageing body shell from the salty badness which we all hate! Now that I've sold a project, I have a spare lockup space where it can hide away which is all good!
So after a good clean of the body arches and underside, I removed all the tar it had gained from our hot summer (surpisingly visible on a black car) and hand polished the paint. I do want to attack it with a clay bar and machine polisher again but removing contamination and especially anything from the arches which would stay wet and or rot it; was my main goal.
I discovered a broken spring on the NS which was a surprise although lock to lock was a bit clicky I put that down to worn strut top bearings! This now presents us with a dillema however.. As described in an earlier post a refurbished axle from IM axles is on the cards due to slight play in the current one. This means new shocks new springs and new rear axle!
Is this a perfect time to lower the car? I was thinking 25mm/ 20mm front and rear respectively would be ideal to take away the slighty comical arch gap?
After the pre storage clean heres how things are..
Looks clean enough but what's lurking underneath!
Not bad on first inspection!
Over painted this when first bought as a preventative short term measure, doesn't seem to have worsened although I hate to think what I'll find when stripping!
The seams are bleeding out in places, again unsure what the stonechip could be hiding!
It was the rear arch at the drivers side which concerned me the most!
...
...
Certainly some work will be needed for this!
Plans then for the future then, straight away the rear axle is coming off, as are all the rear brake lines (the only two advisorys on MOT). Strip the boot floor and the rear arches and see whats left. Weld accordingly and protect. New shocks, new handbrake cables, new axle, discs and pads, new brake lines and flexis should see the back end right.. Thats before I've even touched the front! I can see this been off the road for longer than a winter..!
Your thoughts on the shell condition; wether we should go lower and the future plans would be much appreciated!
Regards, Danny.
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