600bhp 1 Series

[culpz]

It's absolutely staggering how good these cars are on fuel for their engine set-up and power. 27 MPG is what my dad's currently getting out of his M240i, which is exactly the same as what I'm getting in my Cupra 290. Quite how a 3-litre 6-cylinder can be as fuel efficient as a 2.0 4-pot is simply astonishing!

[Glenn63]

Im assuming that’s average and can get a lot more on a long run as even my old 6.2 c63 could manage 30mpg on a long motorway haul.
Plus the fact a 2lt 4 pot will be more highly tuned to make the same power. My old 2.5 sti was abysmal on fuel for a measly 340bhp!

[culpz]

Yeah, that's a long term average. Both can do much more on longer runs at consistent speeds.

[D4MJT]

Glenn63 said:

Im assuming that’s average and can get a lot more on a long run as even my old 6.2 c63 could manage 30mpg on a long motorway haul.
Plus the fact a 2lt 4 pot will be more highly tuned to make the same power. My old 2.5 sti was abysmal on fuel for a measly 340bhp!

Thing is, 30mpg on a run is one thing with a V8, but having ran a fair few V8’s in the past, you get nothing like that round the doors at all. It’s one thing ticking over at low revs for a long time, but generally they’re predictably appalling on fuel, which is acceptable as they sound incredible

My car used to do 50+ easily on a motorway cruise, however it won’t do anything like that now. That said, the fuelling system is obviously changed, it’s got a completely different turbo and map on it, and it’s making almost twice the factory power, so 27-28mpg on a run is still pretty acceptable in my eyes.

[D4MJT]

culpz said:

It's absolutely staggering how good these cars are on fuel for their engine set-up and power. 27 MPG is what my dad's currently getting out of his M240i, which is exactly the same as what I'm getting in my Cupra 290. Quite how a 3-litre 6-cylinder can be as fuel efficient as a 2.0 4-pot is simply astonishing!

Yeah they’re really very good. The combination of coasting in eco pro and the ZF8 being so well set up in the car makes it a real gem.

Stock they’re unbelievably efficient for what they are.

[HM-2]

Glenn63 said:

Im assuming that’s average and can get a lot more on a long run as even my old 6.2 c63 could manage 30mpg on a long motorway haul

My record is nearly 50mpg (48.6 to be exact) over about 200 miles of almost exclusively motorway driving, albeit with nearly half of that being 50 average speed camera zones. I'll commonly get 41-43mpg with the CC set to 75.

[Henry_b]

From looking at some builds it seems the M140 is capable of some simply obscene power figures, I think you've made a good choice keeping her!

[D4MJT]

Henry_b said:

From looking at some builds it seems the M140 is capable of some simply obscene power figures, I think you've made a good choice keeping her!

I hope so fella, looking forward to a good few years together yet!

[Henry_b]

D4MJT said:

I hope so fella, looking forward to a good few years together yet!

A good few years, from looing through the stuff that can be done to these, i'd imagine she'll be right weapon.

Even more so than she is now!

With the wick turned up 700hp, maybe?

[HM-2]

Henry_b said:

D4MJT said:

I hope so fella, looking forward to a good few years together yet!

A good few years, from looing through the stuff that can be done to these, i'd imagine she'll be right weapon.

Even more so than she is now!

With the wick turned up 700hp, maybe?

Over 700 wheel horsepower from some of the kits available in the US...believe that's with bolt-ons only too so no need to crack the block open.

Edited by HM-2 on Tuesday 12th January 13:28

[Ben Lowden]

Can't quite get my head around how bonkers this must be – 600bhp in a family hatchback! Apologies if you're repeating yourself here but:

Is this still on standard internals and am I right in thinking you're still using the standard diff? Did you consider a manual when you bought the car or do you ever find yourself wanting for one at all?

[D4MJT]

Ben Lowden said:

Can't quite get my head around how bonkers this must be – 600bhp in a family hatchback! Apologies if you're repeating yourself here but:

Is this still on standard internals and am I right in thinking you're still using the standard diff? Did you consider a manual when you bought the car or do you ever find yourself wanting for one at all?

Hey Ben,

Yeah so the engine is completely standard internally. They have a forged crank from the factory and the rods and pistons are also forged, however the pistons seem the weakest point and some have cracked on builds around 800hp in the US.

The block is a closed deck design and the bottom end has a girdle plate built in so they seem to be really really strong as a motor.

Mine is on the standard open LSD, the traction control does a decent job of keeping it in check and it doesn’t seem to have any problems hooking up at all, as shown with the Dragy time.

I think I’ll be looking at an LSD this year, but more for being a hooligan than out of necessity.

The manual point is interesting.

I’ve driven 2 manual 140’s. I wouldn’t have considered it myself as I’m often sat in traffic / commuting with the mileage I do and I just can’t be chewed with a clutch in traffic any more if I’m honest. I drive the car in manual mode the majority of the time using the paddles and that’s a great compromise for me, the ZF will let you hit the limiter and won’t change up, it’s a great box.

Whereas I have to say, I’m not really a fan of the manual box at all, it’s a pretty typical BMW box, doesn’t massively like fast changes and has the clutch delay valve etc, although you could remove this.

The standard clutch also gives up at around 450bhp quite quickly, so you’d have to factor that in, the 550i clutch will go in as an upgrade.

The ZF8 in mine is still perfectly happy and is showing no signs of stress.

[TheJimi]

I honestly cannot wrap my head around the power & torque figures, for a 3.0 6 pot, and those economy numbers.

Mind-bending.

[brickwall]

D4MJT said:

Thing is, 30mpg on a run is one thing with a V8, but having ran a fair few V8’s in the past, you get nothing like that round the doors at all. It’s one thing ticking over at low revs for a long time, but generally they’re predictably appalling on fuel, which is acceptable as they sound incredible

My car used to do 50+ easily on a motorway cruise, however it won’t do anything like that now. That said, the fuelling system is obviously changed, it’s got a completely different turbo and map on it, and it’s making almost twice the factory power, so 27-28mpg on a run is still pretty acceptable in my eyes.

I found this as well when I had a 745i. On a run you could get 25-29 out of it, which really wasn’t bad. But around town it would average 13mpg. One tank went at an average of 11.5mpg...which was 50p per mile in fuel alone.

[Ben Lowden]

Thanks for the info Matt, very interesting indeed. Mind boggling that BMW went to so much effort with forged parts that can handle so much power.

Part of the reason I bought an auto 130i was a budget way of testing how I'd get with an auto box. It was perfectly fine but I found myself pining after a manual as I missed the engagement but I wonder how differently I'd feel with the ZF in a M140i. Definitely something to ponder should I be required to change from 3 doors to 5!

[HM-2]

Ben Lowden said:

Thanks for the info Matt, very interesting indeed. Mind boggling that BMW went to so much effort with forged parts that can handle so much power.

Part of the reason I bought an auto 130i was a budget way of testing how I'd get with an auto box. It was perfectly fine but I found myself pining after a manual as I missed the engagement but I wonder how differently I'd feel with the ZF in a M140i. Definitely something to ponder should I be required to change from 3 doors to 5!

I can only speak from my own experience, but I tried the M140i with both the manual box and the auto (having exclusively owned manual cars beforehand), and found that the manual wasn't particularly enjoyable to use, being rather rubbery and notchy. The auto, however, is IMO an absolutely perfect pairing for the B58 engine.

[Court_S]

This must be bonkers fast. My stock M140i still feel fast to me, especially if I’ve been driving my other half’s car for a while or haven’t given it the beans for a while.

Ben Lowden said:

Thanks for the info Matt, very interesting indeed. Mind boggling that BMW went to so much effort with forged parts that can handle so much power.

Part of the reason I bought an auto 130i was a budget way of testing how I'd get with an auto box. It was perfectly fine but I found myself pining after a manual as I missed the engagement but I wonder how differently I'd feel with the ZF in a M140i. Definitely something to ponder should I be required to change from 3 doors to 5!

I wonder if BMw put effort into the B58 knowing that it would be the basis of the M engines going forward. Now they’re on modular engines perhaps the economies of scale make sense to beef the stock B58 internals making it easier to handle the M power. Saves re-engineering further down the line.

The ZF8 is a million miles away from from the ZF6 that you had in your 130i. I’ve recently bought an E88 125 cab with the N52 and a manual. Having had an auto E90, the N52 suits the manual loads more. I think the later B58 is really well suited to the auto with so much torque. P,us the ratios are shorter and it shifts faster.

[toon10]

HM-2 said:

I can only speak from my own experience, but I tried the M140i with both the manual box and the auto (having exclusively owned manual cars beforehand), and found that the manual wasn't particularly enjoyable to use, being rather rubbery and notchy. The auto, however, is IMO an absolutely perfect pairing for the B58 engine.

I formerly owned the M135i LCI and had the same experience. Don't think of it as manual vs auto, more the auto variant of these cars works better than the manual version. The car was my first auto and I've replaced it with another car with the ZF 8 speed.

[Court_S]

toon10 said:

HM-2 said:

I can only speak from my own experience, but I tried the M140i with both the manual box and the auto (having exclusively owned manual cars beforehand), and found that the manual wasn't particularly enjoyable to use, being rather rubbery and notchy. The auto, however, is IMO an absolutely perfect pairing for the B58 engine.

I formerly owned the M135i LCI and had the same experience. Don't think of it as manual vs auto, more the auto variant of these cars works better than the manual version. The car was my first auto and I've replaced it with another car with the ZF 8 speed.

Same here too.

This is my second auto, and it’s a huge improvement over the old ZF6 that I had.

[HM-2]

Court_S said:

I wonder if BMw put effort into the B58 knowing that it would be the basis of the M engines going forward.

This, plus the entire modular engine ecosystem which also encompasses the 3 and 4 cylinder powerplants and the diesel range. They're all built around the same core architecture so definitely economies of scale considerations. With everything from a piddly 1.5 through the repmobile 2L diesel specials, to 3L M powerplants basically built on what is basically the same platform, the costs of some overengineering are likely to be trivial in comparison to the potential savings.