1964 Alvis Stalwart
Discussion
Gretchen said:
I drove past yours last week and noted an Audi out the front. Please tell me it’s the neighbours!
Yep that's neighbours, we've bought a 68 reg SEAT Leon, most important thing is she likes it. Been cleaning the Cooper S up today ready for sale, even got the clay bar out! Fixing or bodging 
to be fair it is impressive seeing how hardy the mechanical engineering is on them sometimes that it can be totally knackered and yet still work with a bit of bodge artistry and hitting it with a hammer.
In other news our little daughter arrived slightly early a few days ago, we're both over the moon, somewhat knackered too! I'm itching to get out into the shed for half hour or so but I'm sure any parent will know that is basically impossible with a newborn! The rewards are certainly worth it though
to be fair it is impressive seeing how hardy the mechanical engineering is on them sometimes that it can be totally knackered and yet still work with a bit of bodge artistry and hitting it with a hammer. In other news our little daughter arrived slightly early a few days ago, we're both over the moon, somewhat knackered too! I'm itching to get out into the shed for half hour or so but I'm sure any parent will know that is basically impossible with a newborn! The rewards are certainly worth it though
Thanks Niall, hope you and better half are OK, indeed she was about 3 weeks early. Thanks everyone for the kind words, it is a big life adjustment so you may as well all tune out of this thread for a while
Indeed I'm amazed to see some of the old wrecks that have came out of the woodwork as a result of them picking them up, as I thought I had a fairly good knowledge of 'what was where'. It's interesting to see some vehicles I recognise and being in fine fettle only a few years back now looking well in need of TLC too.
We haven't registered her yet so anything is on the cards, any suggestions appreciated...
Indeed I'm amazed to see some of the old wrecks that have came out of the woodwork as a result of them picking them up, as I thought I had a fairly good knowledge of 'what was where'. It's interesting to see some vehicles I recognise and being in fine fettle only a few years back now looking well in need of TLC too.
We haven't registered her yet so anything is on the cards, any suggestions appreciated...
Some progress, most of the bits needed to do the next couple of wheel stations were already prepped and painted so just needed finishing touches such as gaiters and clips fitting. Speedo drive and handbrake assembly has been stripped and taken to work to politely use their hot wash. Hopefully they will get a coat of silver paint later in the week. My mate Tyler has been putting in a few evenings to achieve that which is most helpful. The wishbone assembly was freed off a while back and ready to go back on. We refitted this one with torsion bar already in the tube, a job i was expecting to be an utter sod but went remarkably easily! (Tempted fate for the next one now haven't I)
More to follow soon, hopefully before long I'll have a little helper, Gretchen is making sure of it as she's already kindly bought Ava her first spanner
More to follow soon, hopefully before long I'll have a little helper, Gretchen is making sure of it as she's already kindly bought Ava her first spanner
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Some photos of freshly painted bits, handbrake drums have been resprayed and outer brake bands relined. The cab floor plates should technically be deep bronze green but I've decided to do them in 2k silver as it's hard wearing and a bit brighter inside the cab otherwise it's like entering a black hole.
Started to build up the centre bevel box last weekend which can only be described as fiddly sod, but needed in order to fit the centre wheel station. We intend to do that tomorrow if possible.
I sent a load of parts like bushes and pins away for a quote on getting them remade, not in any massive quantity and had a quote back of over 4k
needless to say my budget doesn't quite extend to that at present! Pushing hard for work to mend their lathe so I can make a few bits myself. It's for work purposes, honest!We are very well indeed, thankyou MD. Not quite at teething stage yet but I'm sure that'll be the next hurdle! She turned 3 months on Friday so time has flown by, it seems like an age ago from my perspective but feels like a lot has happened since then.
Pressed the old knackered suspension bushes out of the front shocks today. I was extremely lucky to find 6 NOS replacements via a company called Green Machine Surplus as they seem to be made of unobtainium. When the package arrived they ended up sending 12 bushes and charging me no more, so I was absolutely chuffed with that, many thanks to GMS if you see this!
The new bushes were pressed in and tried for size with one of the remanufactured pins, spot on.
Operation fit centre drive was then underway and would you believe it, a Stalwart job was more difficult than hoped?
The centre in place, it is notoriously difficult to line the tracta joint halves up as once the drive challis is in its very finely machined gearbox hole you don't really have any way of ensuring it's lined up, just by eye and bash it in hoping for the best. The best bit is out in the field during service they would have replaced the whole thing as one unit with brakes, planetary hub and everything but the wheel in place. Christ knows how they managed it, especially whilst covered in mud and being rained on. I thought I'd go for a test run with no joints at all to ensure the challis went into the gearbox ok, even that alone was bloody tight so I ended up putting a slight leading bevel on it with a file all the way round and fine scotchbrite/WD40 to get them agreeing with one another. Once that was OK, tracta joints were fitted and we must have tried 25 times to mate them together with no success. After that we turned the shaft inside to rotate the drive 90 degrees and it went in first try I'm sure after all 6 we'll get the hang of it!
Pressed the old knackered suspension bushes out of the front shocks today. I was extremely lucky to find 6 NOS replacements via a company called Green Machine Surplus as they seem to be made of unobtainium. When the package arrived they ended up sending 12 bushes and charging me no more, so I was absolutely chuffed with that, many thanks to GMS if you see this!
The new bushes were pressed in and tried for size with one of the remanufactured pins, spot on.
Operation fit centre drive was then underway and would you believe it, a Stalwart job was more difficult than hoped?
The centre in place, it is notoriously difficult to line the tracta joint halves up as once the drive challis is in its very finely machined gearbox hole you don't really have any way of ensuring it's lined up, just by eye and bash it in hoping for the best. The best bit is out in the field during service they would have replaced the whole thing as one unit with brakes, planetary hub and everything but the wheel in place. Christ knows how they managed it, especially whilst covered in mud and being rained on. I thought I'd go for a test run with no joints at all to ensure the challis went into the gearbox ok, even that alone was bloody tight so I ended up putting a slight leading bevel on it with a file all the way round and fine scotchbrite/WD40 to get them agreeing with one another. Once that was OK, tracta joints were fitted and we must have tried 25 times to mate them together with no success. After that we turned the shaft inside to rotate the drive 90 degrees and it went in first try
I'm sure after all 6 we'll get the hang of it!
The last bevel box this side going in, this one once cleaned up fitted bob on first try so that was a bonus.
And nutted in place with some tiger seal on the spacer ring to keep the water out.
We then needed to fit the front tracta shaft/fork, this is specific to this wheel station being longer to drive the handbrake drum inside the hull. We went to retrieve that from one the old knackered bevel box in storage.
Sadly as you can see it was in less than great condition so for now I've welded and ground back the faces slowly taking a bit off at a time then getting really fine with 1200 grit paper and oil to match the joint. I have got a mate checking his stocks for me so if they have new then fantastic, if not then we'll have to give this a try. I'm sure there are better ways of doing it but realistically I imagine this will be OK for the relatively light use it'll receive.
We are getting very close to rolling the old lady out now, hopefully at Christmas. Looking forward to that
Front shock pins away being remade as we speak, but some good progress today. Front wishbone assembly sealed up and bolted on, and best of all the centre wheel station in place and pinned in. As usual everything needed a bit of prodding and percussive adjustment to get lined up but another step closer to being back on all 6 again
Edited by LewG on Sunday 3rd December 20:35
Thanks chaps. I think it's one of those where suspension-wise it's so knackered you know if you bodge it back together you're pretty much wasting your time as it'll come back to bite later, so may as well do a half decent job at this stage.
Little one is doing very well, growing up rather quickly. She's not quite had her first try at the oxyacetylene torch yet but give it time
Lovely new front shock pins made by a local chap, and a very nice job he's done too.
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Some reference photos Tyler took of the other side, it's when you see those you realise we've come a long way even though it's taken an age.
Front station and callipers mocked up
Today was spent connecting up wishbones and fitting shocks, lubricating all pivots etc. It doesn't look like much but there is actually quite considerable progress
We wound some preload into the centre torsion bar, I'm a bit unsure about these at present as they are marked with a dot on the tube, and a dot on the bar, we then marked where the reaction arm lined up. They seem to be completely unloaded when fully wound out way before the suspension stops so in my eyes they may need some more 'spring' adding in. That will be something of a nightmare to achieve, so we're going to see how she sits when it's on wheels and dragged outside for a couple of laps of the yard, then decide what to do. Bearing in mind it should sit high with no engine/gearboxes in.
Next step was fit front torsion bar, however mount to the hull was so close to the rubber cap of the centre station tube that the bolt heads would have torn the centre or been completely touching. So after looking at the parts diagrams for a bit, we buggered off home none the wiser
Little one is doing very well, growing up rather quickly. She's not quite had her first try at the oxyacetylene torch yet but give it time
Lovely new front shock pins made by a local chap, and a very nice job he's done too.
Some reference photos Tyler took of the other side, it's when you see those you realise we've come a long way even though it's taken an age.
Front station and callipers mocked up
Today was spent connecting up wishbones and fitting shocks, lubricating all pivots etc. It doesn't look like much but there is actually quite considerable progress
We wound some preload into the centre torsion bar, I'm a bit unsure about these at present as they are marked with a dot on the tube, and a dot on the bar, we then marked where the reaction arm lined up. They seem to be completely unloaded when fully wound out way before the suspension stops so in my eyes they may need some more 'spring' adding in. That will be something of a nightmare to achieve, so we're going to see how she sits when it's on wheels and dragged outside for a couple of laps of the yard, then decide what to do. Bearing in mind it should sit high with no engine/gearboxes in.
Next step was fit front torsion bar, however mount to the hull was so close to the rubber cap of the centre station tube that the bolt heads would have torn the centre or been completely touching. So after looking at the parts diagrams for a bit, we buggered off home none the wiser
Had some more time tinkering with the fine machine today.
Project Manager Ava G planned things out for us so we had a clear schedule of what we needed to get done and how. It's a good job she's a brainiac because her dad is bloody hopeless
The torsion bars have been causing much head scratching but I think we finally got it worked out today. I have asked various groups/people in the know but nobody seemed to have an answer apart from that they were pre set at factory.
The blue marks are punched dots so as you can see there is one on the bar itself, and one on the tube which in turn is splined to the upper suspension wishbone. On the other end of the bar is a splined reaction arm which is adjusted via a big stud and nut, and sits in a holder bracket which is bolted to the side of the hull.
I suspect they should align, but when checking the nearside bars, they looked like this
Thinking about it, where the dots on bar/tube are is irrelevant as effectively that's the starting point, wishbone position and reaction arm position are the most important things to consider. In the end we removed the whole thing from the side of the hull, let the wishbones drop to full 'droop' into the bump stops (2 of the 4 'shocks' on each station are actually bump stops in a tube) then clocked the bar to the middle of its adjustment and bolted the whole thing up again. With some winding of the adjustment nut it's looking good and the torsion actually pushes the wheel station down to its stops with a very slight pressure remaining. It seems to have given us adjustment for more preload or less if required, whereas previously when the wishbone was fully lowered it'd take pressure off completely and throw the reaction arm off the end of its adjustment stud which didn't seem right at all.
It really is quite confusing as you're trying to consider all situations the wishbone could go through and thinking in about 6 planes all at once, especially with it being an off road vehicle. Annoyingly the centre bar can only go one way or the other longitudinally with either front or rear bar removed, so after that we fitted the front bar and adjusted.
Front shocks/dampers fitted with the remanufactured pins. They went in a treat.
Here you can see how the rear torsion bar is at the end of its adjustment. Annoyingly the wishbone pivots are still very very tight so it makes adjustment difficult as effectively it's seized 'up' in place at present despite being regularly lubricated over the past few months. That may have to be rectified using something hefty and torsion bar 'clocked' to allow more adjustment soon.
Finally the front to centre steering bar was fitted. Bloody heavy and awkward, but another crucial step closer to being out in the daylight again!
Project Manager Ava G planned things out for us so we had a clear schedule of what we needed to get done and how. It's a good job she's a brainiac because her dad is bloody hopeless
The torsion bars have been causing much head scratching but I think we finally got it worked out today. I have asked various groups/people in the know but nobody seemed to have an answer apart from that they were pre set at factory.
The blue marks are punched dots so as you can see there is one on the bar itself, and one on the tube which in turn is splined to the upper suspension wishbone. On the other end of the bar is a splined reaction arm which is adjusted via a big stud and nut, and sits in a holder bracket which is bolted to the side of the hull.
I suspect they should align, but when checking the nearside bars, they looked like this
Thinking about it, where the dots on bar/tube are is irrelevant as effectively that's the starting point, wishbone position and reaction arm position are the most important things to consider. In the end we removed the whole thing from the side of the hull, let the wishbones drop to full 'droop' into the bump stops (2 of the 4 'shocks' on each station are actually bump stops in a tube) then clocked the bar to the middle of its adjustment and bolted the whole thing up again. With some winding of the adjustment nut it's looking good and the torsion actually pushes the wheel station down to its stops with a very slight pressure remaining. It seems to have given us adjustment for more preload or less if required, whereas previously when the wishbone was fully lowered it'd take pressure off completely and throw the reaction arm off the end of its adjustment stud which didn't seem right at all.
It really is quite confusing as you're trying to consider all situations the wishbone could go through and thinking in about 6 planes all at once, especially with it being an off road vehicle. Annoyingly the centre bar can only go one way or the other longitudinally with either front or rear bar removed, so after that we fitted the front bar and adjusted.
Front shocks/dampers fitted with the remanufactured pins. They went in a treat.
Here you can see how the rear torsion bar is at the end of its adjustment. Annoyingly the wishbone pivots are still very very tight so it makes adjustment difficult as effectively it's seized 'up' in place at present despite being regularly lubricated over the past few months. That may have to be rectified using something hefty and torsion bar 'clocked' to allow more adjustment soon.
Finally the front to centre steering bar was fitted. Bloody heavy and awkward, but another crucial step closer to being out in the daylight again!
It's OK my toolbox isn't only this
Most definitely will have a meet, I'd love for you all to come and have a look. A good friend of ours has a field local that he's built up as a private off road course so hopefully a good place to put her through her paces once finished.
My plan in the new year as a change of tune from wheel stations, is to get the engine in and refreshed/fired up on a stand. Think it will be a good morale boost to hear the heart again. From a practical point of view after 5 years or so in a damp old chicken barn I think very much needed too as some of those valves no doubt will be open and potentially prone to seizing it up. Annoyingly engines are hard to come by now as a lot of the vintage Bentley/Rolls-Royce enthusiasts have bought up a vast amount of the RR straight eights available for vintage racer projects etc. Yes they are out there but the prices are astronomical! So fingers crossed this one is still a good one.
If no more updates in the next day or two I hope everyone has a cracking Christmas. All 6 wheels are on now so after festivities all things being well it shall be dragged out! Photos to follow no doubt
Most definitely will have a meet, I'd love for you all to come and have a look. A good friend of ours has a field local that he's built up as a private off road course so hopefully a good place to put her through her paces once finished.
My plan in the new year as a change of tune from wheel stations, is to get the engine in and refreshed/fired up on a stand. Think it will be a good morale boost to hear the heart again. From a practical point of view after 5 years or so in a damp old chicken barn I think very much needed too as some of those valves no doubt will be open and potentially prone to seizing it up. Annoyingly engines are hard to come by now as a lot of the vintage Bentley/Rolls-Royce enthusiasts have bought up a vast amount of the RR straight eights available for vintage racer projects etc. Yes they are out there but the prices are astronomical! So fingers crossed this one is still a good one.
If no more updates in the next day or two I hope everyone has a cracking Christmas. All 6 wheels are on now so after festivities all things being well it shall be dragged out! Photos to follow no doubt
Too right! I really enjoy engines so it should be a good project within the project as it were. I am going more for the if it ain't broke don't fix it approach with that so will compression test it as a start and if it comes back looking healthy will probably just have the sump off and clean it all out, ensure strainer are clear and set valve clearances etc.
It could be possible but I would say unlikely! I did see your ZT-T and it looked cracking, very much enjoyed reading the thread. I keep hankering after having another daft car on the drive again too but really can't justify the expense and time spent on maintenance etc, much as I do miss those days of blasting around in a thirsty V8!
Old Lady touched tyres back onto the concrete for the first time in probably 4 or 5 years this afternoon which was absolutely smashing. Tyler dragged it forward with his RRC and it was a surreal feeling hearing everything creak and groan as she moved off! Mrs G even had the pleasure of reversing her back into place
It could be possible but I would say unlikely! I did see your ZT-T and it looked cracking, very much enjoyed reading the thread. I keep hankering after having another daft car on the drive again too but really can't justify the expense and time spent on maintenance etc, much as I do miss those days of blasting around in a thirsty V8!
Old Lady touched tyres back onto the concrete for the first time in probably 4 or 5 years this afternoon which was absolutely smashing. Tyler dragged it forward with his RRC and it was a surreal feeling hearing everything creak and groan as she moved off! Mrs G even had the pleasure of reversing her back into place
Thanks all.
It does make you wonder hte, I know the B81 in the Stolly/Salamander is that bit rarer but not by much. I did do a bit of research into it as they also fitted the B81 into Leyland Martians and I had the opportunity to buy an engine that'd been in a Martian originally. Decided against it in the end as it was a lot of money and apparently the Stalwart Mk8B engine has quite a bit more power compared to the Martian unit due to a big valve head. Quite amazing considering the size of them! The Salamander airfield fire tender is more powerful still. I suppose in the 80s/90s apart from having a large thirst for little output they were scrapped by the dozen.
It probably would be better to put another engine in as let's face it technology has come a hugely long way since the inlet over exhaust design of the Roller, they produce laughable hp/torque numbers that are outdone by some Fiestas now. As I remember it's 220hp and 335lbft quoted so it's surprising the thing moves at all. The noise however is just on another level, can't wait to see it spit some flames across the workshop
It does make you wonder hte, I know the B81 in the Stolly/Salamander is that bit rarer but not by much. I did do a bit of research into it as they also fitted the B81 into Leyland Martians and I had the opportunity to buy an engine that'd been in a Martian originally. Decided against it in the end as it was a lot of money and apparently the Stalwart Mk8B engine has quite a bit more power compared to the Martian unit due to a big valve head. Quite amazing considering the size of them! The Salamander airfield fire tender is more powerful still. I suppose in the 80s/90s apart from having a large thirst for little output they were scrapped by the dozen.
It probably would be better to put another engine in as let's face it technology has come a hugely long way since the inlet over exhaust design of the Roller, they produce laughable hp/torque numbers that are outdone by some Fiestas now. As I remember it's 220hp and 335lbft quoted so it's surprising the thing moves at all. The noise however is just on another level, can't wait to see it spit some flames across the workshop
Yep that's been done quite a bit, some pages back I visited a chap that had put a 6BT in and it sounded/looked the business. I think top speed is reduced slightly obviously due to less rpm than the petrol, but you can get round that by putting in the transfer box gearing from a Saracen which gives a slightly lower final drive ratio resulting in more top end.
I have seen R-R K60 multifuel used as found in FV432, Leyland 500 and AF Budge who bought masses of ex surplus Stollies in the late 80s tried modernising them with Perkins Phaser diesels.
Was the guy with the 6BT Goddess the one that built the period race car transporter out of it? That was a great project to read about.
I have seen R-R K60 multifuel used as found in FV432, Leyland 500 and AF Budge who bought masses of ex surplus Stollies in the late 80s tried modernising them with Perkins Phaser diesels.
Was the guy with the 6BT Goddess the one that built the period race car transporter out of it? That was a great project to read about.
Edited by LewG on Sunday 24th December 15:46
Proper job, that's epic! Where on earth did he get one of those from?!
That sounds like a most enjoyable time MD. Hopefully 2024 shall bring a lot more in the way of decent progress.
Old lady was dragged out today with the mighty Rangey, and turned around ready to start again on the other side. Finishing touches on the 'done' side can wait til later, I really am looking forward to getting the bare bones in with the hull interior painted so we can think about putting engine and box back in after all, who needs brakes?
Safely tucked back in the shed now after a lot of shunting. Of course it had to start raining sideways before we were under cover!
That sounds like a most enjoyable time MD. Hopefully 2024 shall bring a lot more in the way of decent progress.
Old lady was dragged out today with the mighty Rangey, and turned around ready to start again on the other side. Finishing touches on the 'done' side can wait til later, I really am looking forward to getting the bare bones in with the hull interior painted so we can think about putting engine and box back in
after all, who needs brakes? Safely tucked back in the shed now after a lot of shunting. Of course it had to start raining sideways before we were under cover!
That is rather interesting, I never knew that! Seen the turbine powered Rovers at Gaydon Motor Museum but I assumed the idea had stopped at cars. Can you imagine a guy hand cranking a 2CV and expecting to hear that classic clatter and hearing a jet noise emerge from it instead? Or not as was often the case it seems!
Or not as was often the case it seems! Ouch! That cost the US taxpayer some pennies! I know back in the day they used to air drop Ferrets as in one of my books there's a pic of one that failed much like those Humvees and flat packed itself IKEA style when it met terra firma
Not sure if Stollies were ever dropped but they were designed to be transported by Beverley and Argosy aircraft I believe it was. This was part of the reason they weren't ever re-engined to diesel as it'd add weight and that was considered prohibitive for air portability.
She wasn't sat on all six for long. We simply couldn't help ourselves and was immediately out with the hammers and spanners this afternoon.
Adjuster pivot decided to be seized up. Once glowing that was quickly sorted
We did have a big fight trying to get the drive chalice out of the bevel box housing. This was mostly just the rusty remains of what was once there, if you've read the thread from the start you may remember I had to gas axe half the transfer box to bits to disconnect it from the centre bevel box drive couplings, as they were all destroyed through water ingress thanks to the previous owner.
This was very tight so in the end we decided to try and remove the nuts holding the whole gearbox and drive into the hull and bash it out with the largest of hammers available! At that point I had to leave as needed to get back and see family, but good old Tyler persevered and heroically ended up with yet another pile of scrap on the floor ready to be rejuvenated.
Good head start into 2024 I'd say.
Happy New Year everyone, thanks all very much for the kind words of support and rooting for us this last year as I think it's fair to say it's been a bit of a whirlwind this end!
Not sure if Stollies were ever dropped but they were designed to be transported by Beverley and Argosy aircraft I believe it was. This was part of the reason they weren't ever re-engined to diesel as it'd add weight and that was considered prohibitive for air portability.
She wasn't sat on all six for long. We simply couldn't help ourselves and was immediately out with the hammers and spanners this afternoon.
Adjuster pivot decided to be seized up. Once glowing that was quickly sorted
We did have a big fight trying to get the drive chalice out of the bevel box housing. This was mostly just the rusty remains of what was once there, if you've read the thread from the start you may remember I had to gas axe half the transfer box to bits to disconnect it from the centre bevel box drive couplings, as they were all destroyed through water ingress thanks to the previous owner.
This was very tight so in the end we decided to try and remove the nuts holding the whole gearbox and drive into the hull and bash it out with the largest of hammers available! At that point I had to leave as needed to get back and see family, but good old Tyler persevered and heroically ended up with yet another pile of scrap on the floor ready to be rejuvenated.
Good head start into 2024 I'd say.
Happy New Year everyone, thanks all very much for the kind words of support and rooting for us this last year as I think it's fair to say it's been a bit of a whirlwind this end!
mercedeslimos said:
Saw the New Year in reading that thinking 'I should really go to bed' some seriously impressive engineering Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff