BMW 2002Tii (ish)

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Discussion

MTW

448 posts

41 months

Thursday 20th April 2023
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SturdyHSV said:
Get an engine stand and have a go, it truly isn't complicated when it's there in front of you, and there is so much footage / content on youtube for anything you can imagine you can be pretty familiar with the process before you even start smile

I built a 600bhp engine from scratch with zero training or experience whatsoever, the reality is most of the bits only fit together one way really... hehe Just don't set yourself a deadline so there's no time pressure and just tinker away.
]
Ah good to hear! Yea I reckon you might be right! Only a Duratec I’m thinking about so might just pick up a cheap one and get to taking it apart!

SturdyHSV

10,098 posts

168 months

Thursday 20th April 2023
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MTW said:
Ah good to hear! Yea I reckon you might be right! Only a Duratec I’m thinking about so might just pick up a cheap one and get to taking it apart!
Absolutely! Take lots of pictures as you go (a Reader's Cars thread is a great place to organise them hehe) and then you've got plenty of material to reference back to even without the enormity of the internet to fall back on smile

scottos

Original Poster:

1,146 posts

125 months

Friday 21st April 2023
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MTW said:
Wow, I have spent the last 3-4 days working my way through this thread whenever I have a spare few minutes, what a lovely build. I love the attention to detail and all the “right” bits, everything on the car fits the theme, it looks incredible.

I love the Recaro pole positions, I had a MK2 golf a few years ago which had pole positions that were retrimmed in grey fabric and ultraviolet material in the centres to match the OEM rear seats. It was my favourite thing about the car. Great to see someone doing the same thing. It looks superb.

Great to see all the in depth coverage of the engine work also, I enjoy working on my car myself. But my skills don’t extend to inside the engine yet but I would love to carry out a rebuild and learn that kind of thing and some point.

Fantastic car, and very enjoyable thread to read! I look forward to seeing more.

Edited by MTW on Thursday 20th April 10:24
Wow thanks for the kind words and the time you've spent reading through it all, im glad you enjoyed it enough to do that!

I had a mk2 golf way back when too and i remember a car being done with PP and UV fabric funnily enough! I had a load of rainbow run out material kept spare as i was going to put OEM recaros in it and have them re-trimmed to suit, that never came to fruition, however!

If you start with a relatively simple engine you will be fine, im sure, if you are quite hands on. Most engines are quite simple to be honest, just more steps included with more heads, more cams etc.

Thanks again for spending your time on the thread!

Chunkychucky said:
Nice, I presume you're going to just perfect the drivability aspect with the new intake setup as opposed for trying to squeeze more power out? Must admit it's impressive what the old M10 can do, incredible when you consider the competition engines that the bottom ends went on to support!

Yeah it's a good call, I love road driving early morning/in the evenings during the Summer once all the slow c*nts/cyclists have toddled off home, and being able to enjoy the great roads we have up here in something like your 2002 is special cool Haha yeah unfortunately going to be racing it, tempting to soften it off a bit and (shock horror) raise the ride height a bit, but ideally i'd also put a carpet/back bench back in it, and not have a weld-in roll cage with door bars... need to get another one for road use really that I can tune free of the racing regulations, might have a hope in Hell of keeping your car in sight then wink
Thats the plan, there's zero number chasing with this car, however unimpressive things may seem biglaugh Melmerbey up to Hartside Summit is the test bed for me, it's my favorite stretch of road and thats also where you tend to have friendly run in's with all sorts of bikes and cars too.

That is fair enough if you're racing and a good excuse for a second one biglaugh

SturdyHSV said:
Get an engine stand and have a go, it truly isn't complicated when it's there in front of you, and there is so much footage / content on youtube for anything you can imagine you can be pretty familiar with the process before you even start smile

I built a 600bhp engine from scratch with zero training or experience whatsoever, the reality is most of the bits only fit together one way really... hehe Just don't set yourself a deadline so there's no time pressure and just tinker away.

MTW said:
Ah good to hear! Yea I reckon you might be right! Only a Duratec I’m thinking about so might just pick up a cheap one and get to taking it apart!
SturdyHSV said:
Absolutely! Take lots of pictures as you go (a Reader's Cars thread is a great place to organise them hehe) and then you've got plenty of material to reference back to even without the enormity of the internet to fall back on smile
A Duratec is a nice one to do and there's plenty around, aftermarket performance parts are aplenty too. Good excuse to upgrade 'whilst you're in there' biglaugh

scottos

Original Poster:

1,146 posts

125 months

Friday 21st April 2023
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SturdyHSV said:
Great to see the car back on the road and everything is looking top notch as always! I assume it'll be in the Readers Cars section at the PH25 event? There'll be loads of us crawling over / under it hehe
It didnt quote this for some reason but yes that is the intention but dont look too closely biglaugh it's absolutely battered with stonechips now and the front airdam center piece is hanging together by a thread (well cable ties hehe) it's certainly not a show car haha

scottos

Original Poster:

1,146 posts

125 months

Friday 21st April 2023
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Following on from the last update, i'd ordered some none quick release vband clamps for my manifold, they turned up on Wednesday.

I was penciled in at a friends rolling road on the Thursday so they came just in time! This meant some time needed to be spent on the car Wednesday night, i needed to fit these clamps and have a general check over.

Now the engine has had a few heat cycles, i wanted to re-torque the the headbolts, that was first port of call! 2 out of 10 were still torqued, so it's definitely a step that needs to be taken on these engines.

20230418_205839 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

Second port of call was to fit the clamps, hard to get a proper picture!

20230419_204757 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

I packed the car with as many spares as i could find, charged my laptop up and packed that in and good to go for the morning.

My friends place is located 5 minutes away from one of my favorites roads and im friends with Rob of Nentsport Dyno purely from going up there driving and there are many people who i can call friends, who i've initially met in the same way!

Rob's place is a wonderful place, it's an old farm house and one of the sheds conveniently has a rolling road in it hehe its a no nonsense set up!

20230420_124827 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

It's always cold up there and we've had a couple of low powered fans blowing this cool air into the front of the car and one pointing down into the top of the engine bay to help things as much as possible. The temps stayed great and the intake temps never went into the state where the map will compensate, so that was also great, before the fan onto the bay was turned on it was only pulling 1% out after being held under loads for a few minutes.

The green boxes below are the load cells adjusted in the first 3.5 hours or so. RPM is shown down the side and the top is throttle %, so all the green boxes are essentially all the lower RPM ranges and throttle positions that come about from general driving i.e. part throttle and lower RPM's and these are ones we had to alter. It was running a bit lean on my way over to Rob so this all needed some time to sort, there's obviously more air making its way in than the previous set up!

20230420_124433 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

We spent the last 30 minutes or so messing with the >95% column, as the rest of the load cells were spot on. It's running quite rich at the top and removing fuel/ timing didnt seem to make much difference, so we got it to its happy spot and i was happy to call it a day!

I've had the car on 3 different dynos now, the one where it was initially mapped called it at 180hp, i had it on one to check results with/ without the airbox that called it 164hp and Robs initially called it 164hp too but obviously there has been significant changes this time. After the messing around above and in it's most happy spot it came out at 170hp! I was grateful to Rob for the work and allowing me to sit in with him as his assistant, always love to learn.

With Hartside pass being 5 minutes away, i headed straight up, then over and down the other side, to then turn around and do the same again in reverse. The car is miles better on/ off throttle than before, pick up is instant and there's no bogging down and i genuinely think its a quicker car now than it was before. It just feels smoother through the revs so its not as hectic but when you glance at the speedo its right up there. There's a boot load more torque lower down with this different spec of cam and new valves, which makes sense with all the fuel we had to had in from the previous set up!

All in all, very happy!

A stop on the pass, looking through the mounds where the road goes through, is the lake district:

20230420_152044 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

Back up the hill:

20230420_152108 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

Another stop off on the way home, just soaking up the sun and admiring the view:

20230420_165955 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

Im hoping to get out plenty and i'll try for some better pictures and perhaps the odd video!

Cheers,

Scott

bomb

3,692 posts

285 months

Friday 21st April 2023
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woohoo

Smokin Donut

274 posts

227 months

Friday 21st April 2023
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Cars looking great! And good to see its running well and your enjoying it. Jealous of those roads, nothing like that down south.

EmBe

7,523 posts

270 months

Tuesday 25th April 2023
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scottos said:
Im hoping to get out plenty and i'll try for some better pictures and perhaps the odd video!
I saw you up above Middleton in Teesdale on Sunday, car looked fantastic and just the right size for the roads.

scottos

Original Poster:

1,146 posts

125 months

Tuesday 25th April 2023
quotequote all
bomb said:
woohoo
biggrin

Smokin Donut said:
Cars looking great! And good to see its running well and your enjoying it. Jealous of those roads, nothing like that down south.
Thanks! It really is brilliant for driving up here and the roads are never particularly busy either. If anyone wants to get West quickly then they take the a66, so these roads are generally just local traffic, with the odd person taking the 'scenic' route.The locals tend to be fairly well on it as well hehe

EmBe said:
I saw you up above Middleton in Teesdale on Sunday, car looked fantastic and just the right size for the roads.
Ah, were you in the Cayman, or something else? I came up and over from Frosterley and down to MiT. I broke a bolt on the driveshaft shortly after, which left me with a load of vibration under any real load so it was duly turned around and limped home.

New guibo and bolts on order!

And, Thank You, you're right about the size, as a consequence you still have room to position the car but also stay in your lane generally.

EmBe

7,523 posts

270 months

Tuesday 25th April 2023
quotequote all
scottos said:
Ah, were you in the Cayman, or something else? I came up and over from Frosterley and down to MiT. I broke a bolt on the driveshaft shortly after, which left me with a load of vibration under any real load so it was duly turned around and limped home.

New guibo and bolts on order!

And, Thank You, you're right about the size, as a consequence you still have room to position the car but also stay in your lane generally.
We were in the mighty Outback (family outing to Low and High Force) sadly.

When we first raced my mate's Boxter, we snapped driveshaft bolts on the LH driveshaft in quali, luckily we had spares so on they went only to find we'd also snapped the RH bolts and we were one short. Weekend over before it began frown

It looked great - I yelled out "Ooh! Ooh! that's.......the bloke....off Pistonheads....Scott!" - I got the eye roll she does so well when I get excited about cars laugh

Bright Halo

2,973 posts

236 months

Tuesday 25th April 2023
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That’s a great Dyno result.
I would I be correct in saying it is now producing about the same power as the turbo version?
Must be great to drive.

Slippydiff

14,850 posts

224 months

Tuesday 25th April 2023
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Googles “Hartside Pass” ...
Mental note made, must take a trip up there smile
Wonderful photos as always Scott. Car looking brilliant too. Good to see you saw/caught the tensioner blade before it caused an altogether more catastrophic engine failure.

Dyno session sounds very successful and productive. Your man’s dyno “cell” no doubt does wonders for providing nice cool air for low IAT’s, but not so good for waiting around in for a soft “Southerner” like me. hehe
It’s a good method to dissuade punters from watching whilst the car’s being mapped mind !!

Great to see you’ve got the old girl fixed in time for the Spring.

If I may, I’ll drop you a PM/email requesting some recommendations for other good roads in the area, then arrange a long weekend up there with a mate or two, and hopefully meet up with you too. It’d be good to see the car in the flesh smile

scottos

Original Poster:

1,146 posts

125 months

Tuesday 25th April 2023
quotequote all
EmBe said:
We were in the mighty Outback (family outing to Low and High Force) sadly.

When we first raced my mate's Boxter, we snapped driveshaft bolts on the LH driveshaft in quali, luckily we had spares so on they went only to find we'd also snapped the RH bolts and we were one short. Weekend over before it began frown

It looked great - I yelled out "Ooh! Ooh! that's.......the bloke....off Pistonheads....Scott!" - I got the eye roll she does so well when I get excited about cars laugh
I was going to be disappointing in myself if i had missed the Cayman! If you saw me coming back from that direction and towards MiT then that was after the incident biglaugh it was like a monsoon at home around 5 minutes after i put it back in the garage, so i wasnt too put out!

It is annoying when things like that happen, things you cant really account for! I got stranded late '21 when my halfshaft bolts sheared off in the diff flange, all torqued to spec with the correct thread locker and it completely screwed me getting home. When i looked into it, it's a common thing to add another 5ftlb's to the torque settings.

I do the same and get the same looks, completely understand hehe

Bright Halo said:
That’s a great Dyno result.
I would I be correct in saying it is now producing about the same power as the turbo version?
Must be great to drive.
Thanks and yes, similar peak power (mine should be a smidge more). The turbos dont get going until 4.5k and only rev to 5.8 so that power is very short lived haha mine revs to 7.5k, with max just after 7 and it gets going around 4k rpm.

I'd love to have a drive of a proper Turbo one, i bet they are hilarious fun in their own way!

Slippydiff said:
Googles “Hartside Pass” ...
Mental note made, must take a trip up there smile
Wonderful photos as always Scott. Car looking brilliant too. Good to see you saw/caught the tensioner blade before it caused an altogether more catastrophic engine failure.

Dyno session sounds very successful and productive. Your man’s dyno “cell” no doubt does wonders for providing nice cool air for low IAT’s, but not so good for waiting around in for a soft “Southerner” like me. hehe
It’s a good method to dissuade punters from watching whilst the car’s being mapped mind !!

Great to see you’ve got the old girl fixed in time for the Spring.

If I may, I’ll drop you a PM/email requesting some recommendations for other good roads in the area, then arrange a long weekend up there with a mate or two, and hopefully meet up with you too. It’d be good to see the car in the flesh smile
I was thinking as a read your first couple of lines, i would suggest you letting me know when you're up and we'd sort something out. Please feel free to PM me and it should go to my emails. I can certainly sort you a route out that gets the best bits in (and more, depending where you're heading from/ going to afterwards). There's a few of us now that have met through the love of driving out there so should be able to sort a small group at my end, too.

Robs dyno is great, i love the no nonsense approach! It does get chilly up there, there's the petrol station in Alston at the base of the pass and in summer it can be 28 degrees down there and at the top of the pass you need a jumper on!

Also, a friend got his Mk2 Escort rally car checked on Robs dyno and his wife made them all mince and dumplings for lunch, i wasnt so lucky this time but i cant imagine many rolling roads that would provide that service!


Edited by scottos on Tuesday 25th April 15:56

scottos

Original Poster:

1,146 posts

125 months

Friday 5th May 2023
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Not a lot to update, other than i've been getting out in the car when i can.

However, the next drive after the previous post, i had a small failure and had to limp the car home. There was an odd sudden noise and then the sound of something essentially dropping off under the car and then some relatively harsh vibrations! I was out in the middle of nowhere but there was a small carpark to pull into further up the road. It was apparent that the car was fine unless load was added!

I pulled in and had a quick look under and as far as i could see, i reversed out of the spot i'd parked in and heard the familiar noise of something falling off again hehe i found this on the floor:

20230424_134829 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

This was either a propshaft nut/ what was left of the bolt, or the gearbox mount. I had a 50 minute trundle home and it made it fine. I even got a few overtakes in but thats more down to people doing 30 in NSL zones and causing me load issues up the next hill, it was much better to carry speed!

Once id gotten home and jacked the car up i was greeting with the below:

20230424_142042 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

Only one bolt had snapped and from the fretting on the rear of the disc i saw later, it appears it came a little loose and allowed the output flange and disc to fret against one another and eventually fail. Tightening these bolts is on my checklist so it's odd this happened. I did note that for whatever reason i've put all the bolts in the same way, when youre supposed to alternate them I cant imagine the reasoon for the failure is that, though!

I ordered up 2 replacements, so i could check the quality:

20230430_211751 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

I also found an original BMW one (no longer available) in a pile of old parts i kept. Sadly this is well used, with cracks galore. It was nice to compare the original against the two replacements i ordered. The top one appears to have better quality metal bosses, where the bolts pass through and generally looks better but the other one, whilst not looking as good, is pretty much identical to the BMW one. It has the shore number etc. present too, the top one has not one marking.

I decided to fit the middle one, for better or worse! No pictures i'm afraid, it's a bit of a rubbish job and i just wanted it done and finished! A quick picture back on the floor, however:

20230430_231833 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

I had some time the next day to get out for a bit of a drive, had a great time and really enjoyed just being out in the middle of nowhere in it:

20230501_122126 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

20230501_122144 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

20230501_122239 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

I'd seen a guy i know through Instagram was in the area with a few mates, they'd come up for the weekend to explore the roads so i went to meet them at Alston petrol station, at the base of Hartside Pass. As luck would have it, another Insta-friend drove by in his GT3RS and quickly pulled in. We had a good run up and a couple of runs down the other side, excellent.

20230501_110143 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

20230501_110117 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

I've mentioned it before but i keep finding cars bring people together that otherwise would never meet otherwise, it really is excellent.

Hopefully ill get down to the Pistonheads meet at The Motorist, near Leeds this Sunday in it, fingers crossed the weather holds out!

Cheers,

Scott

Yazza54

18,540 posts

182 months

Friday 5th May 2023
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Black phone charger cable required!!!

scottos

Original Poster:

1,146 posts

125 months

Wednesday 17th May 2023
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Well following my previous sign-off of 'hoping the weather holds out', it didnt biglaugh

I took the 2002 anyway, it's only water and its not like i drive it often in the wet. Plus with it just going back on the road, all the components on the underside etc were freshly coated in ACF50. It was basically patchy rain storms on the way down, a couple of stretches of road were engulfed by nothing short of a monsoon, the A052 tyres were great in standing water. I was in convoy with a couple of newer cars on AR1's and they were having a much worse time.

A couple of shots the photographer of the day got:

FB_IMG_1684008287671 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

FB_IMG_1684008294394 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

FB_IMG_1684008274735 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

And a good couple from Pistonheads very own Ben. L:

2023-05-17_09-43-40 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

2023-05-17_09-43-52 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

Shortly after arriving the sun came out and it was almost too hot to stand around in, who'd have thought after the mornings rain hehe

Hung around awhile chatting to various people and a friend came later in the afternoon in the grandson of the 2002:

20230507_143155 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

20230507_143030 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

20230507_143109 by Scott Osborne, on Flickr

Lovely thing, he's owned it a very long time, before prices went silly, so it's still driven as such and not hidden away.

On the way back i think there's some form of blow from one of the V-bands at the front, on the secondary pipes on the manifold. I think when its been repaired it's distorted slightly. Further investigation required! I've had it off and apart and back together and that was my conclusion, it's a horrible tappy sound, reminiscent of a blow, i even scared myself into checking the valve clearances and the way i built the head but it all looks good. I think i'll just give it a good drive out this weekend, or one evening and see whats what!

Cheers,

Scott

Yazza54

18,540 posts

182 months

Wednesday 17th May 2023
quotequote all
Car looks awesome as usual

AR1 is really not a wise choice for an all weather tyre hehe

scottos

Original Poster:

1,146 posts

125 months

Thursday 18th May 2023
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Yazza54 said:
Car looks awesome as usual

AR1 is really not a wise choice for an all weather tyre hehe
Cheers! And no, definitely not!

illmonkey

18,209 posts

199 months

Thursday 18th May 2023
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Great posts as always Scott. You make me very jealous, mines laid up awaiting parts.

Keep posting the good stuff. Love reading the development.

scottos

Original Poster:

1,146 posts

125 months

Friday 19th May 2023
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illmonkey said:
Great posts as always Scott. You make me very jealous, mines laid up awaiting parts.

Keep posting the good stuff. Love reading the development.
Thanks! I know the feeling well, the nicer weather only makes it worse as well!

Fingers crossed its not for long and you're back out enjoying it!