Bentley 3 Litre
Discussion
Wow, fantastic machine, not something you see in Readers Cars every day! It sounds like quite some experience to drive, and looks in lovely condition without looking over-restored. Given what you say about rising prices it ought to be a great investiment too especially if improved upon.
Thanks for posting all of this, its great reading.
Last year a friend and I went to a car show in Germany called Classic Days at Schloss Dyck. It was a fantastic event and the centerpiece of the weekend was the coming together of pre-war Bentleys; they were everywhere! We had a tenuous link to some of the main characters so had a slightly closer look than we were supposed to. It really was great.
Here is a random Youtube video of last years event https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Stp4RtcpJaI
What I wanted to ask is, do you have any information about the wrapping of the steering wheel and what sort of material it is? I'm restoring an aftermarket steering wheel for an old Land Rover and I'm just investigating the possibilities.
Last year a friend and I went to a car show in Germany called Classic Days at Schloss Dyck. It was a fantastic event and the centerpiece of the weekend was the coming together of pre-war Bentleys; they were everywhere! We had a tenuous link to some of the main characters so had a slightly closer look than we were supposed to. It really was great.
Here is a random Youtube video of last years event https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Stp4RtcpJaI
What I wanted to ask is, do you have any information about the wrapping of the steering wheel and what sort of material it is? I'm restoring an aftermarket steering wheel for an old Land Rover and I'm just investigating the possibilities.
ntiz said:
Many thanks and look forward to seeing some of the history!
Would you mind terribly posting your full address and what times you are normally out? I do not have any ulterior motives or criminal tendancies... honest 
Utterly, utterly gorgeous. I am so jealous I could kick the dog! I pulled up alongside what I thought was an extremely well worn and travel weary car like yours last year outside the local Co-op of all places. Got chatting to the owner and he offered me a swap for my Bentley (98 version) and I was gobsmacked and nearly broke his arm in my rush. It turned out that it was a 50s special and nothing but trouble and strife, didn't run properly and leaked oil like the Torrey Canyon (that's age appropriate ).
I was still mighty tempted but by the time my feeble brain had stopped dithering he'd gone and I've never seen it since even though I know it is local.
Please post everything you can on the lovely old lady, even if it's just about checking tyre pressures.
Utterly, utterly gorgeous. I am so jealous I could kick the dog! I pulled up alongside what I thought was an extremely well worn and travel weary car like yours last year outside the local Co-op of all places. Got chatting to the owner and he offered me a swap for my Bentley (98 version) and I was gobsmacked and nearly broke his arm in my rush. It turned out that it was a 50s special and nothing but trouble and strife, didn't run properly and leaked oil like the Torrey Canyon (that's age appropriate
).I was still mighty tempted but by the time my feeble brain had stopped dithering he'd gone and I've never seen it since even though I know it is local.
Please post everything you can on the lovely old lady, even if it's just about checking tyre pressures.
MX6 said:
Wow, fantastic machine, not something you see in Readers Cars every day! It sounds like quite some experience to drive, and looks in lovely condition without looking over-restored. Given what you say about rising prices it ought to be a great investiment too especially if improved upon.
Thanks I wasn't sure how well it would go down on here as it's not particularly fast or sporting. It is fantastic to drive in its own unique way usually I drive very fast but there is something special about doing 50-60 on a country road in the old girl. Probably because every corner is a challenge that requires planning, concentration and coordination to maintain your 50 mph were as you don't need half as much to do the same corner at 100 in the Ferrari. Both are fantastic though.We are in a bit of a conundrum with its condition as we quite like that it looks its age but we want to tidy it up a little bit, the tricky part is knowing when we should stop. The previous owner we know used it a huge amount it had only just got back from 2 weeks in Portugal when we bought it. The issue is that he did also seem to put things in to just keep it going on trips which aren't correct that we would like to set right. But on the other hand they are kind of parts of its character that show it has been used.
As much as we don't like to admit to it. It being a good investment was quite a big factor in justifying the purchase as it was double what we had payed for any other car so being fairly certain it won't be worth 50k in a couple of years did help. Also not a bad vehicle for passing money on to your children
Although there is one major issue with thinking of cars as investments. It relies on the concept that you will sell it at some point which I certainly never intend to do, a lot of other assets will be going before this one like a kidney for example.
Edited by ntiz on Tuesday 24th April 16:40
That’s pretty much the plan keep it as is only replace stuff that is clearly to modern like the pozidrive screws on the interior.
We are thinking about possibly giving the engine more power with new pistons, crank, cams, modern fluids etc. If we do that though we will keep all the original parts so can be put back if we want to not really sure yet.
We are thinking about possibly giving the engine more power with new pistons, crank, cams, modern fluids etc. If we do that though we will keep all the original parts so can be put back if we want to not really sure yet.
Fantastic car, and great to read about it. Your enthusiasm is clear to see.... I'm sure it will give you and family many years of enjoyment.
On the rev counter... All the AT rev counters that I have seen on Bentleys rotate anti-clockwise - ie in the opposite direction to the speedo and in the opposite direction to yours. The rev counter wasn't standard equipment, and when fitted it had the plain dial without the Bentley script - much the same style as yours. It's quite possible that AT sold a generic clockwise rev counter and that is what you now have on the car.
Maybe one of the specialists can use the case and the guts and reverse the rotation. Alternatively as others have suggested you could use a reversing gearbox in the cable. On the plus side it looks like you already have the correct drive unit on the front of the camshaft.
Like others, I love the patina. It would be a shame to lose the history and evolution apparent in the dashboard. In the same vein, I'm a great believer that there's no reason not to make sympathetic changes - this all adds to the history over time.
You have the all the correct instruments, with the exception of the Bentley specific switch panel. If you could source one of those, that would complete the set and take care of the choke, mag and dynamo controls allowing you to get rid of some of the more modern looking additions. You could also re-instate the autovac, getting rid of the need for a fuel pump switch, and finally you could hide the fan switch and other non standard bits behind the dash. Just a personal view of course!
Whatever you do with the engine will be expensive. There's not many people tuning 3 litres beyond the speed model spec you have. The obvious upgrade path is to bite the bullet and upgrade to a 4 1/2 litre block which is a well trodden path. Looking at recent prices, 3 litres with the 4 1/2 conversion carry a large premium, and the majority of cars going through the dealer network are converted. Suggests to me that the cost of conversion is more than offset by the increase in asking price. That's some great man maths to support a ~50k upgrade!. On one level I think it's a bit of a shame - standard 3 litres are becoming a rarity. Not that it should discourage anyone from upgrading their own car - it clearly makes for a great package.
Keep the updates coming - particularly info on the history.
On the rev counter... All the AT rev counters that I have seen on Bentleys rotate anti-clockwise - ie in the opposite direction to the speedo and in the opposite direction to yours. The rev counter wasn't standard equipment, and when fitted it had the plain dial without the Bentley script - much the same style as yours. It's quite possible that AT sold a generic clockwise rev counter and that is what you now have on the car.
Maybe one of the specialists can use the case and the guts and reverse the rotation. Alternatively as others have suggested you could use a reversing gearbox in the cable. On the plus side it looks like you already have the correct drive unit on the front of the camshaft.
Like others, I love the patina. It would be a shame to lose the history and evolution apparent in the dashboard. In the same vein, I'm a great believer that there's no reason not to make sympathetic changes - this all adds to the history over time.
You have the all the correct instruments, with the exception of the Bentley specific switch panel. If you could source one of those, that would complete the set and take care of the choke, mag and dynamo controls allowing you to get rid of some of the more modern looking additions. You could also re-instate the autovac, getting rid of the need for a fuel pump switch, and finally you could hide the fan switch and other non standard bits behind the dash. Just a personal view of course!
Whatever you do with the engine will be expensive. There's not many people tuning 3 litres beyond the speed model spec you have. The obvious upgrade path is to bite the bullet and upgrade to a 4 1/2 litre block which is a well trodden path. Looking at recent prices, 3 litres with the 4 1/2 conversion carry a large premium, and the majority of cars going through the dealer network are converted. Suggests to me that the cost of conversion is more than offset by the increase in asking price. That's some great man maths to support a ~50k upgrade!. On one level I think it's a bit of a shame - standard 3 litres are becoming a rarity. Not that it should discourage anyone from upgrading their own car - it clearly makes for a great package.
Keep the updates coming - particularly info on the history.
We are looking into all of the engine options originally we thought about changing it to a 4.5. As the 3 litre speed chassis with the 4.5 engine is considered the best drivers spec for these cars the worth goes up by around 100-150k for around 60k investment although we think we could do it cheaper as we would like to get our hand dirty. It’s a no brainer really but at the same time that’s what lots of people do and we think it would be quite nice to keep it as the configuration it left the factory in. We have been told with some not so huge investment we could make it a genuine 100mph car which we think for the time being is fast enough for us.
It’s all quite a long way off anyway as we want to get it to a condition we are happy with and use it a lot before we get into changing anything major. Plus Dad is building a new garage that will be heated and big enough to make working on the cars much easier at the moment you have to be pretty comited to get out there in the winter which at 71 my Dad is not.
It’s all quite a long way off anyway as we want to get it to a condition we are happy with and use it a lot before we get into changing anything major. Plus Dad is building a new garage that will be heated and big enough to make working on the cars much easier at the moment you have to be pretty comited to get out there in the winter which at 71 my Dad is not.
Pacman1978 said:
Can you comment what it is like to work on? Is there feature or function that you would like to see on a modern day vehicle which is missing?
How likely is it to still be roadworthy with your (oap age) son at the wheel?
:-)
To work on I have no idea yet really need to get it into the new garage next winter to start tinkering. We are determined to use it as much as possible while it is warm.How likely is it to still be roadworthy with your (oap age) son at the wheel?
:-)
All cars should be opened wheeled and have a bonnet strap! Also real petrol heads don't need synchromesh (have always wondered if Bentley boys sneered at synchro the way we do at paddle shifters these days)
. In seriousness not really that I can think of at the moment.Which son do you mean me or my son (Grandson). Hopefully I will be able to keep it for my life time as I love it and won't be getting rid if I can help it. If you can afford to these will still be going in another 100 years the support and passion for them is huge!! You can buy all the parts brand new if required so there is no reason they will ever stop. Of course there might not be much left of the original car but they will still be going.
The level of love for these cars is like no other brand I have been involved with. The BDC does tours all over the world for the vintage cars couple of years ago a whole bunch got shipped down to NZ for a tour. I know of a group of guys who shipped there cars to the East coast of the US, drove to Laguna Seca raced won had a party drove back. My Dad knows a guy who isn't leaving his car to his kids because he knows they won't look after it so it's in his will to go to his mate, so it will be looked after. As long as there are mad people like that around these cars will always be around.
So I had a little look in the file for the car last week found a couple of things but will have to ask my Dad if he has more of the older history.
Just took couple of pics one is just some pics of it as its original body and its tour of New Zealand (didn't know it had been there) and of when it was restored in the 60/70s.
IMG_3501 by Elliot Simpson, on Flickr
IMG_3502 by Elliot Simpson, on Flickr
Asked Dad to pop by work Tuesday for a quick chat was surprised to see he turned up in the 3 litre it turns out since I had seen him Friday he has got it out and been using it as his daily
enjoying the weather. He got bored over the weekend and has been out in it just driving around all his favourite roads/places.
More pics.
IMG_3711 by Elliot Simpson, on Flickr
IMG_3710 by Elliot Simpson, on Flickr
I took some video to try and get the sound but its rubbish so will have to try again.
Totally unrelated but does anyone know the best way to heat a garage to look after your cars? Garage is being started this week and we are trying to decide if we should put underfloor heating in or radiators or just have a dehumidifier? Or a combination any advice would be really helpful.
Just took couple of pics one is just some pics of it as its original body and its tour of New Zealand (didn't know it had been there) and of when it was restored in the 60/70s.
IMG_3501 by Elliot Simpson, on FlickrIMG_3502 by Elliot Simpson, on FlickrAsked Dad to pop by work Tuesday for a quick chat was surprised to see he turned up in the 3 litre it turns out since I had seen him Friday he has got it out and been using it as his daily
enjoying the weather. He got bored over the weekend and has been out in it just driving around all his favourite roads/places.More pics.
IMG_3711 by Elliot Simpson, on FlickrIMG_3710 by Elliot Simpson, on FlickrI took some video to try and get the sound but its rubbish so will have to try again.
Totally unrelated but does anyone know the best way to heat a garage to look after your cars? Garage is being started this week and we are trying to decide if we should put underfloor heating in or radiators or just have a dehumidifier? Or a combination any advice would be really helpful.
A hat-tip to your dad for using the car as his daily, just as it should be.
Regarding the garage, the important thing is to limit rapid temperature changes and to keep it above dew point where condensation occurs. The dew point varies according to temperature and relative humidity. This is what Carcoons and Airchambers do, almost sealed up but with a small air flow to slow temperature changes and stop condensation occurring.
If it is practical and affordable to insulate, heat and dehumidify with some controlled ventilation that's what I'd do. It needn't be very warm, 12 degrees C is plenty. You must have some ventilation, remember you have a vented fuel tank. If you use a dehumidifier fit a drain pipe so you don't have to keep emptying it. The desiccant types will work regardless of the temperature but the condenser types get less efficient as the temperature falls.
Your choices depend on the construction and condition of the garage and your budget.
Regarding the garage, the important thing is to limit rapid temperature changes and to keep it above dew point where condensation occurs. The dew point varies according to temperature and relative humidity. This is what Carcoons and Airchambers do, almost sealed up but with a small air flow to slow temperature changes and stop condensation occurring.
If it is practical and affordable to insulate, heat and dehumidify with some controlled ventilation that's what I'd do. It needn't be very warm, 12 degrees C is plenty. You must have some ventilation, remember you have a vented fuel tank. If you use a dehumidifier fit a drain pipe so you don't have to keep emptying it. The desiccant types will work regardless of the temperature but the condenser types get less efficient as the temperature falls.
Your choices depend on the construction and condition of the garage and your budget.
So the Bentley has had a busy few weeks since the weather improved.
I have been looking for a good time go out with my Dad to have long drive in the car so I can become confident with the gearbox, brakes etc as I have only really driven the car on wide open roads were you just slot it into 4th then 1st when you have to stop and pull away again. So I wanted to have a good drive down some great winding roads to get some confidence, big reason for this is that I obviously would like to be able to take the car out by myself or with my wife.
A cunning plan was hatched, I had noticed there was quite a large wedding coming up that would mean most people wouldn't be out early on a Saturday morning. I arrived at my fathers at 8am expecting to have to turn him out of bed. Much to my surprise I found the car already out of the garage with Dad checking all the levels turns out he was as excited as I was. After having the various ignition settings explained and what they are for plus the adjustable throttle on the steering wheel to be used for getting the car warmed up and how to know when it's warmed up.
We then set off with the plan of going from Mundesley to Hunstanton using the coast road through Blakeney and Wells to have breakfast/brunch at our favourite pub. I will admit to being apprehensive of how enjoyable this road would be in the Bentley as for those of you who don't know that route is a fairly twisty, undulating road with some longish straights great fun in sports cars, but I was concerned with how much fun it would be in something that although sporty in its day isn't exactly the last word in agility
As it turned out we got blue sky's barely any traffic and fantastic road. I needn't have worried you can actually hustle her along at 50+ really easily once you stop treating it like it's made of glass. It took me some time to get used to the gearbox and steering. I should confess that until this drive I had just been dipping the clutch trying to select a gear hoping for the best. My father taught me how to double de clutch and rev match on the way down the box. It really is great fun challenging yourself to get it right as there is a lot of rhythm in knowing how long to leave between putting it in neutral to trying for the desired gear and to make it harder each gear requires different timing, also how warm the box is changes it all over again. I am fairly proud to say I only had one complete f
k up were couldn't get it to go into third as I approached a corner. I did attempt something I have been thinking would be helpful which is to left foot blip the throttle on down changes so that you can change down whilst braking which was a success.
Handling wise I have never driven any car that is so throttle responsive. At first I was sort of trying to coast my way around bends then accelerate on the straights but the steering was extremely heavy after the first mile or 2 my Dad told me to stop being such a vagina and give it some bloody throttle like I would in any other car (yes he is slightly mental). This totally changes the way the car feels if you have the power on even just a little the steering becomes much lighter and you can adjust your line were as before it kind of felt like a super tanker not really wanting to go round.
We got to the pub an hour earlier than expected for breakfast and pint
IMG_3943 by Elliot Simpson, on Flickr
The next day dad went on a VSCC tour all round Suffolk meeting loads of great people with a wide range of vintage cars. The car ran great except for it developing a worrying rattle that sounded like the exhaust was tapping the road after inspection he came to the conclusion it wasn't serious as nothing was hanging down and the noise didn't seem to coincide with braking, steering etc. I did get blamed for it though as I had clearly thrashed his car
Pics of that day coming soon.
On these road trips we had noticed that the ride was a bit odd up until now we assumed that it was just the way it was but the car seemed to flex a bit side to side when going quickly (relatively) so dad has taken off all the shock absorbers and reset them back to factory setting as in the manual. This was done by using a hook scale to make sure the resistance was correct whilst tightening or slackening as necessary. It turned out as suspected they were all at different settings which would explain the slightly odd flexing.
IMG_3801 by Elliot Simpson, on Flickr
We are looking into having a new roof and cover made as the ones on the car at the moment have holes in just waiting for quotes.
Other than that just been driving around having a blast!
More pics just because I have them.
Passenger shots.
IMG_3947 by Elliot Simpson, on Flickr
IMG_3945 by Elliot Simpson, on Flickr
Random
IMG_3948 by Elliot Simpson, on Flickr
IMG_3791 by Elliot Simpson, on Flickr
Next generation.
IMG_3951 by Elliot Simpson, on Flickr
I have been looking for a good time go out with my Dad to have long drive in the car so I can become confident with the gearbox, brakes etc as I have only really driven the car on wide open roads were you just slot it into 4th then 1st when you have to stop and pull away again. So I wanted to have a good drive down some great winding roads to get some confidence, big reason for this is that I obviously would like to be able to take the car out by myself or with my wife.
A cunning plan was hatched, I had noticed there was quite a large wedding coming up that would mean most people wouldn't be out early on a Saturday morning. I arrived at my fathers at 8am expecting to have to turn him out of bed. Much to my surprise I found the car already out of the garage with Dad checking all the levels turns out he was as excited as I was. After having the various ignition settings explained and what they are for plus the adjustable throttle on the steering wheel to be used for getting the car warmed up and how to know when it's warmed up.
We then set off with the plan of going from Mundesley to Hunstanton using the coast road through Blakeney and Wells to have breakfast/brunch at our favourite pub. I will admit to being apprehensive of how enjoyable this road would be in the Bentley as for those of you who don't know that route is a fairly twisty, undulating road with some longish straights great fun in sports cars, but I was concerned with how much fun it would be in something that although sporty in its day isn't exactly the last word in agility
As it turned out we got blue sky's barely any traffic and fantastic road. I needn't have worried you can actually hustle her along at 50+ really easily once you stop treating it like it's made of glass. It took me some time to get used to the gearbox and steering. I should confess that until this drive I had just been dipping the clutch trying to select a gear hoping for the best. My father taught me how to double de clutch and rev match on the way down the box. It really is great fun challenging yourself to get it right as there is a lot of rhythm in knowing how long to leave between putting it in neutral to trying for the desired gear and to make it harder each gear requires different timing, also how warm the box is changes it all over again. I am fairly proud to say I only had one complete f
k up were couldn't get it to go into third as I approached a corner. I did attempt something I have been thinking would be helpful which is to left foot blip the throttle on down changes so that you can change down whilst braking which was a success. Handling wise I have never driven any car that is so throttle responsive. At first I was sort of trying to coast my way around bends then accelerate on the straights but the steering was extremely heavy after the first mile or 2 my Dad told me to stop being such a vagina and give it some bloody throttle like I would in any other car (yes he is slightly mental). This totally changes the way the car feels if you have the power on even just a little the steering becomes much lighter and you can adjust your line were as before it kind of felt like a super tanker not really wanting to go round.
We got to the pub an hour earlier than expected for breakfast and pint
IMG_3943 by Elliot Simpson, on FlickrThe next day dad went on a VSCC tour all round Suffolk meeting loads of great people with a wide range of vintage cars. The car ran great except for it developing a worrying rattle that sounded like the exhaust was tapping the road after inspection he came to the conclusion it wasn't serious as nothing was hanging down and the noise didn't seem to coincide with braking, steering etc. I did get blamed for it though as I had clearly thrashed his car
Pics of that day coming soon.
On these road trips we had noticed that the ride was a bit odd up until now we assumed that it was just the way it was but the car seemed to flex a bit side to side when going quickly (relatively) so dad has taken off all the shock absorbers and reset them back to factory setting as in the manual. This was done by using a hook scale to make sure the resistance was correct whilst tightening or slackening as necessary. It turned out as suspected they were all at different settings which would explain the slightly odd flexing.
IMG_3801 by Elliot Simpson, on FlickrWe are looking into having a new roof and cover made as the ones on the car at the moment have holes in just waiting for quotes.
Other than that just been driving around having a blast!
More pics just because I have them.
Passenger shots.
IMG_3947 by Elliot Simpson, on FlickrIMG_3945 by Elliot Simpson, on FlickrRandom
IMG_3948 by Elliot Simpson, on FlickrIMG_3791 by Elliot Simpson, on FlickrNext generation.
IMG_3951 by Elliot Simpson, on FlickrGreat thread. Thanks for sharing.
I followed two of these( not quite sure of the models !) about 18 mths or so ago: they were filling up at a shell petrol station in keighley West Yorkshire.
I guess heading for a jaunt in the dales. The presence, the noise, honestly: as you know was amazing!!!
I followed two of these( not quite sure of the models !) about 18 mths or so ago: they were filling up at a shell petrol station in keighley West Yorkshire.
I guess heading for a jaunt in the dales. The presence, the noise, honestly: as you know was amazing!!!
What a stunning car, its nice to see someone documenting working on it.
I always wondered what effect re-bodying had on the value, none it would seem! I think it probably needs to have been done a while ago though.
I've always had aspirations of restoring my grandads lesser Derby Bentley.
Joe
I always wondered what effect re-bodying had on the value, none it would seem! I think it probably needs to have been done a while ago though.
I've always had aspirations of restoring my grandads lesser Derby Bentley.
Joe
1275 GT said:
What a stunning car, its nice to see someone documenting working on it.
I always wondered what effect re-bodying had on the value, none it would seem! I think it probably needs to have been done a while ago though.
I've always had aspirations of restoring my grandads lesser Derby Bentley.
Joe
It does seem a bit mad that you can change the entire way a car looks and it not make a difference to the value at all, but if the number on the engine and chassis don't match you are out 50,000+.I always wondered what effect re-bodying had on the value, none it would seem! I think it probably needs to have been done a while ago though.
I've always had aspirations of restoring my grandads lesser Derby Bentley.
Joe
Dad originally really wanted a matching numbers car but came to the conclusion that having matching numbers doesn't make a difference to enjoying the driving experience. Once he came to that conclusion he started looking for cars that could be traced back to the factory.
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