Phoenix from the flames - Porsche Boxster with an Audi 2.7T
Discussion
Thanks for the positive comments.
epicsales-0-032017
I've not documented it that well but to recap and carry on from the last video, the car was running really nice, then I went to start it up and it wouldn't idle and kept cutting out. I found the damaged wires on the crank sensor, replaced the plug. It then ran but to my mind it wasn't feeling as slick as before when I'd first had it running. It felt a bit rough, I was convinced it had a misfire but all injectors and coils fired and the egt's and lambdas matched up. I took it out for a drive, stopped after a bit to look at the laptop and I couldn't start it up again. Crank sensor signal gone. I got it towed back by my mate Alex (thanks bud!). The next day it started up straight away. The plug wiring was fine when I checked for continuity, I had a spare crank sensor so I decided to chuck it in. I've had no cutting out issues since but I'm not 100% on it all being perfect (I'll explain why at the bottom of the post).
After having been out in it for a few drives the smoke from the exhaust cleared up which was good news. However I noticed this mess under the car which was less welcome.
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The turbo oil drain was leaking where it was crimped, cut it off and used a rubber hose, it's all good now. The sump is the eternal issue I seem to be having. As everything had been cleaned up it was easier to find the source. I cleaned it all up, removed my engine mount bracket, put the engine on a transmission jack and ran it until I saw it leak. It was coming from the bolt that I'd snapped and done a helicoil repair on. It's bloody obvious when I think about it but the oil was running across the flange and down from various places.
Sump back off, this time I used a stud and nut on it to torque it up a bit more. Never say never but I've put the car through it's places and it's dry as a bone now so I think I'm good.
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My brother was over for the weekend and he did the driving and I did some tuning. Everything is miles off, the PID on my throttle body was off (i'd cleaned it) and it was all over the place at WOT. My boost control PID was also dodgy, don't know why. Got all that sorted, now my knock control is set-up tuning should be straight forward. I needed to tweak the VE table a little to get the fuel nice, that was easy enough. It all got a bit of a struggle with the ignition timing and the boost. Basically there seems to be hardly any timing in it and I'm getting knock. As an example, at 4000rpm it's making 23psi which is good going but I had 3 degrees of timing in it and it was knocking and pulling timing so it wanted even less. From what i've seen on other 2.7t tunes it should be more like 13 degrees of timing at that point.
I did try running less boost and more ignition advance and taper in the boost up top but it's s
t through the gears and it's not improving things much with knock. There are mitigating circumstances, it's been crazy hot, the charge coolers aren't up to it, they are struggling to keep IAT's decent. Saw 75 degrees on one log. The car is getting a battering during these repeated pulls. It's not a major problem as I've got the water/methanol injection which will do the lions share of the cooling (can't use that until I tune it without though). The temps are going to explain some of it but not all of it. One potential issue could be my base timing is off on my ECU, I have changed the gearbox and the sensor is mounted in it, so when it says 3 degrees of timing, it could be more and it's not actually an issue. I've got a timing light coming so I can check this. I don't think this is the case though, it's feeling a bit lethargic like the timing is retarded. It's quick once it's on song, my arse dyno is putting it around low 400's and it's making decent boost so its quite far off where it should be.
If I think back to the how it ran when first started compared to the running after my crank sensor issue, I'm not totally convinced it's back to how it was. It runs nice enough but just seems to feel a little less refined. That could all be my imagination though. The idle is stable but it feels a bit rough, that might be the new gearbox mounts and me over thinking things.
I've booked it into Indigo GT again, August the 13th. I need to make sure all the basics are right otherwise it's a waste of time. I might need to change the injectors, it saw 26psi and that was 85% injector duty cycle. Once the weather cools down a bit and I've checked the base timing I'll do a bit more tuning. For the time being it's perfectly useable and plenty quick. The fact it's being put though it's paces during this heatwave and it's fine is good news.
A few pictures of it out in the sun on it's new wheels.
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A couple of the interior with it's red bits. I added some more switches down by the gear knob, rotary switch on the left will be for boost control, one on the right for traction control stages and the buttons in the middle for methanol injection and anti lag.
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MDifficult said:
Don't be silly - just before he puts in that last bolt.....
I think this is the reason everyone comments on my motivation, it might look like a lost cause to the rest of you but I feel like I've been one bolt away from finishing it for years. This probably sums it up.epicsales-0-032017I've not documented it that well but to recap and carry on from the last video, the car was running really nice, then I went to start it up and it wouldn't idle and kept cutting out. I found the damaged wires on the crank sensor, replaced the plug. It then ran but to my mind it wasn't feeling as slick as before when I'd first had it running. It felt a bit rough, I was convinced it had a misfire but all injectors and coils fired and the egt's and lambdas matched up. I took it out for a drive, stopped after a bit to look at the laptop and I couldn't start it up again. Crank sensor signal gone. I got it towed back by my mate Alex (thanks bud!). The next day it started up straight away. The plug wiring was fine when I checked for continuity, I had a spare crank sensor so I decided to chuck it in. I've had no cutting out issues since but I'm not 100% on it all being perfect (I'll explain why at the bottom of the post).
After having been out in it for a few drives the smoke from the exhaust cleared up which was good news. However I noticed this mess under the car which was less welcome.
P7160588P7160590The turbo oil drain was leaking where it was crimped, cut it off and used a rubber hose, it's all good now. The sump is the eternal issue I seem to be having. As everything had been cleaned up it was easier to find the source. I cleaned it all up, removed my engine mount bracket, put the engine on a transmission jack and ran it until I saw it leak. It was coming from the bolt that I'd snapped and done a helicoil repair on. It's bloody obvious when I think about it but the oil was running across the flange and down from various places.
Sump back off, this time I used a stud and nut on it to torque it up a bit more. Never say never but I've put the car through it's places and it's dry as a bone now so I think I'm good.
P7160603P7160602My brother was over for the weekend and he did the driving and I did some tuning. Everything is miles off, the PID on my throttle body was off (i'd cleaned it) and it was all over the place at WOT. My boost control PID was also dodgy, don't know why. Got all that sorted, now my knock control is set-up tuning should be straight forward. I needed to tweak the VE table a little to get the fuel nice, that was easy enough. It all got a bit of a struggle with the ignition timing and the boost. Basically there seems to be hardly any timing in it and I'm getting knock. As an example, at 4000rpm it's making 23psi which is good going but I had 3 degrees of timing in it and it was knocking and pulling timing so it wanted even less. From what i've seen on other 2.7t tunes it should be more like 13 degrees of timing at that point.
I did try running less boost and more ignition advance and taper in the boost up top but it's s
t through the gears and it's not improving things much with knock. There are mitigating circumstances, it's been crazy hot, the charge coolers aren't up to it, they are struggling to keep IAT's decent. Saw 75 degrees on one log. The car is getting a battering during these repeated pulls. It's not a major problem as I've got the water/methanol injection which will do the lions share of the cooling (can't use that until I tune it without though). The temps are going to explain some of it but not all of it. One potential issue could be my base timing is off on my ECU, I have changed the gearbox and the sensor is mounted in it, so when it says 3 degrees of timing, it could be more and it's not actually an issue. I've got a timing light coming so I can check this. I don't think this is the case though, it's feeling a bit lethargic like the timing is retarded. It's quick once it's on song, my arse dyno is putting it around low 400's and it's making decent boost so its quite far off where it should be.If I think back to the how it ran when first started compared to the running after my crank sensor issue, I'm not totally convinced it's back to how it was. It runs nice enough but just seems to feel a little less refined. That could all be my imagination though. The idle is stable but it feels a bit rough, that might be the new gearbox mounts and me over thinking things.
I've booked it into Indigo GT again, August the 13th. I need to make sure all the basics are right otherwise it's a waste of time. I might need to change the injectors, it saw 26psi and that was 85% injector duty cycle. Once the weather cools down a bit and I've checked the base timing I'll do a bit more tuning. For the time being it's perfectly useable and plenty quick. The fact it's being put though it's paces during this heatwave and it's fine is good news.
A few pictures of it out in the sun on it's new wheels.
P7190626P7190627P7190628P7190622P7190623P7190620A couple of the interior with it's red bits. I added some more switches down by the gear knob, rotary switch on the left will be for boost control, one on the right for traction control stages and the buttons in the middle for methanol injection and anti lag.
P7190624P7130576P7190625SuperCharged V6 said:
Cracking job Escy, well done.
The car is looking great, very factory, love it.
Thanks, I'm really pleased with it. The car is looking great, very factory, love it.
therealsamdailly said:
It looks bloody excellent on those wheels
Thanks, they were a good buy, I sold my old wheels for what these cost me. wormus said:
Great update as always. Are you sure your knock sensors aren’t lying to you and you aren’t picking up false knock? Can you get hold of a set of det cans to test?
It is possible my knock threshold is set a bit lower than it needs to be but my logs do show distinct spikes so I think it's probably accurate. I have got home made det cans so I'll have a listen and make sure. gregs656 said:
Great to see the car out and about. Think you can see the pay off of switching the shells now it's on the road.
Yeah, it was defiantly worthwhile re-shelling the car, the condition of this 987 is much better and I think it's a better looking car. Batch 7.5R said:
This has been my go-to build thread for years now. Absolutely love this car and the ingenuity you’ve used all the way through is mindblowing. The OZs look perfect too, just in love! Thank you for keeping us all hooked!
Thanks, the ingenuity comes from trying to not spend too much money on fancy aftermarket parts. It's a bit like scrap heap challenge with bits from loads if different cars. I've gone my own way with a lot of things, often down to budget.threadlock said:
Really enjoyed catching up on this, Escy. Thanks for documenting this amazing project. What will you do with all the knowledge you've learnt along the way? New career?
Thanks, I'd love to do something like this as a job. I'm doing less days in my normal job now so I've got more time. I've had a few people ask me about building one (or wanting to buy my car) so the potential is there but I don't think it would be the most efficient use of my time, it's been a lot of work. I've put hundreds of hours into my car. I've learnt so much the last few years from doing these Boxsters. I probably under estimated the scope of the project at the outset. I can see why so many projects don't get finished. The wiring, tuning and canbus were the most difficult parts and I couldn't have done that with the help of Baldur from Baldur's Control Systems. My knowledge is not all going to waste, I have wired up 2 other Audi powered 987's, both V8's.
Yeah, that's true.
A few weeks back the engine developed a rattle when cold. It pretty much disappears when warm. This wasn't there when the engine first started up after going back together, it started a couple of weeks ago and has been getting worse since. I'd initially thought it was something on the drive belt but I removed that and the noise was still there. I'd been busy fixing an Audi A8 so hadn't really concerned myself with it. I'm getting fed up of constantly working on it. I've got the dyno booked for Friday the 13th, I was undecided on what to do, it's fine when it's warm and I'm confident it'll make it through the day but it seems like a bad decision to know it's not 100% and take it like it is. I decided best to do it before hand but I've not left myself much time!
This is the noise.
The timing chain tensioners are a common issue, I thought it was either that or a lifter. After sharing a video on Facebook everyone that knows these engines said chain tensioners. When I put the engine back together a month or so ago I didn't change the tensioners and chains, this was a poor decision in hindsight. The heads I'm using are unknown and I paid £80 for the whole engine so it was a gamble but the cams looked good and it generally seemed in better condition than my old cylinder heads so I decided to go with it all as it was. I'd personally rather original parts with some miles under their belts to aftermarket parts that are new which is why I'd gone that way. It's not worked out unfortunately. New OEM just isn't happening, I don't think I'd get much change out of £1000 for a pair of tensioners and the chains. The car is insured for 2k miles a year so it makes no sense spending big on stuff like that, they'd cost more than the whole engine is worth. I've gone for a set of Chinese ones off ebay, it's the same part used on the 1.8t and the 4.2 V8 and loads of people have been using them for years with no issues.
Although the noise is on bank 2 I'm changing doing both sides. Reason being, I want new chains on both banks so I know my cam timing is perfectly matched. That way I'll calibrate the cam position sensors to match each other on my ECU and I can make sure the variable timing is functioning the same on both banks and it's a reference then for if they ever have a variance in the future to help me diagnose issues.
This is the state of play Sunday evening. Half the engine is in the boot, I should get the parts by Tuesday and I've got Wednesday off work so will be able to get it all back together then ready for Friday. I'm a bit pissed off that I need to open the engine back up so soon after putting it in the car but at least it's not too difficult to work on. The plan is, the engine goes back together Wednesday, it does the business on the dyno Friday and I live happily ever after enjoying it.
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A few weeks back the engine developed a rattle when cold. It pretty much disappears when warm. This wasn't there when the engine first started up after going back together, it started a couple of weeks ago and has been getting worse since. I'd initially thought it was something on the drive belt but I removed that and the noise was still there. I'd been busy fixing an Audi A8 so hadn't really concerned myself with it. I'm getting fed up of constantly working on it. I've got the dyno booked for Friday the 13th, I was undecided on what to do, it's fine when it's warm and I'm confident it'll make it through the day but it seems like a bad decision to know it's not 100% and take it like it is. I decided best to do it before hand but I've not left myself much time!
This is the noise.
The timing chain tensioners are a common issue, I thought it was either that or a lifter. After sharing a video on Facebook everyone that knows these engines said chain tensioners. When I put the engine back together a month or so ago I didn't change the tensioners and chains, this was a poor decision in hindsight. The heads I'm using are unknown and I paid £80 for the whole engine so it was a gamble but the cams looked good and it generally seemed in better condition than my old cylinder heads so I decided to go with it all as it was. I'd personally rather original parts with some miles under their belts to aftermarket parts that are new which is why I'd gone that way. It's not worked out unfortunately. New OEM just isn't happening, I don't think I'd get much change out of £1000 for a pair of tensioners and the chains. The car is insured for 2k miles a year so it makes no sense spending big on stuff like that, they'd cost more than the whole engine is worth. I've gone for a set of Chinese ones off ebay, it's the same part used on the 1.8t and the 4.2 V8 and loads of people have been using them for years with no issues.
Although the noise is on bank 2 I'm changing doing both sides. Reason being, I want new chains on both banks so I know my cam timing is perfectly matched. That way I'll calibrate the cam position sensors to match each other on my ECU and I can make sure the variable timing is functioning the same on both banks and it's a reference then for if they ever have a variance in the future to help me diagnose issues.
This is the state of play Sunday evening. Half the engine is in the boot, I should get the parts by Tuesday and I've got Wednesday off work so will be able to get it all back together then ready for Friday. I'm a bit pissed off that I need to open the engine back up so soon after putting it in the car but at least it's not too difficult to work on. The plan is, the engine goes back together Wednesday, it does the business on the dyno Friday and I live happily ever after enjoying it.
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Yeah, I think so. Best to do it now.
I've also sent my subframe I made off for powder coating while it's apart. I know what's going to happen, I'll get the engine back together and running and miss the dyno because the subframe isn't back. The guy doing it said it should be ready by Wednesday, fingers crossed.
I've also sent my subframe I made off for powder coating while it's apart. I know what's going to happen, I'll get the engine back together and running and miss the dyno because the subframe isn't back. The guy doing it said it should be ready by Wednesday, fingers crossed.
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