1979 Mercedes 450 SLC
Discussion
CharlesdeGaulle said:
Before you go nap, have you seen strela's SL thread? You might choose to consider other garages too. Edward Hall is well-regarded, and Steve Griffin (Merc Tec on the MB forums) is excellent; he's based Worcester-way and did the work on mine.
No naming and shaming allowed of course, but I think some well-known eponymous specialists are marketed beyond their talents. Allegedly.
Well thank you for this. I will indeed investigate that thread and go from there.No naming and shaming allowed of course, but I think some well-known eponymous specialists are marketed beyond their talents. Allegedly.
ilovequo said:
If it sounds like a budgie trapped behind the dash, that'll cure it.
Had the same problem with my W124.
Ordered what I was assured was the correct unit from a shop that sells SLs. My garage stripped down car (lots of stuff needs removing to access motor) only to find they had supplied the wrong unit. Car now holding up other work.
Then had to drive to said shop to get the correct part!
Bears out what other posters have said about competence.
Think i’ll order one... (the replacement motor internal at £130)
Presumably the heater unit can be removed pretty easily through the panel at bulkhead?
Bonnet up, Unscrew 8 philips-head screws (use a short screwdriver), gently pull out the electrical terminal, remove lid of heater area, undo 4 bolts and the unit lifts out. 2 of those bolts are rather tricky as they lay lower inside the bulkhead and you cannot see them but that's it. I have missed out the final stage where you stare into the rotten abyss.Had the same problem with my W124.
Ordered what I was assured was the correct unit from a shop that sells SLs. My garage stripped down car (lots of stuff needs removing to access motor) only to find they had supplied the wrong unit. Car now holding up other work.
Then had to drive to said shop to get the correct part!
Bears out what other posters have said about competence.
Think i’ll order one... (the replacement motor internal at £130)
Presumably the heater unit can be removed pretty easily through the panel at bulkhead?
Edited by paulyv on Tuesday 20th March 15:09
Now I get this image up it doesn't look as dramatic as it felt when actually departing Goodwood on Sunday afternoon.
I am not one to gloat but given the weekend temperatures I could not deny the warm feeling I got when gliding past a Discovery spinning its wheels as it submerged deeper into the Sussex clay. The Duchess is now sat on the street begging me to wash the salt of numerous county gritting outfits from her underside. I'd best get onto that tomorrow or there won't be much left by the weekend.
Plenty of fancy cars there on Sunday but it was the little red Datapost Metro that made the trip worthwhile, even if it did only last one corner.
I am not one to gloat but given the weekend temperatures I could not deny the warm feeling I got when gliding past a Discovery spinning its wheels as it submerged deeper into the Sussex clay. The Duchess is now sat on the street begging me to wash the salt of numerous county gritting outfits from her underside. I'd best get onto that tomorrow or there won't be much left by the weekend.
Plenty of fancy cars there on Sunday but it was the little red Datapost Metro that made the trip worthwhile, even if it did only last one corner.
So we had a long weekend's holiday to Zaragoza planned, flying out Friday. This was, however, thoroughly scuppered by Ryan canceling our flights the day before due to the French Air Traffic controllers deciding that work wasn't for them, and that a long weekend looked far more attractive.
What to do? Rather than spend several hours on Skyscanner trying to find something suitable we hopped in the SL and left London, not knowing where we might end up. No better opportunity to stretch the car's legs at last.
A little over 350 miles and just over a tank of fuel later we are back having been all around Oxfordshire and Gloucestershire. Driving holidays like this never fail to remind me what a beautiful country we live in. Towns and villages such as Marlborough, Stow-on-the-Wold, Bourton-on-the-Water and Ledbury were visited and the car never missed a beat.
First things first - this was fitted just before we left:
Much better. No worries about my eyelids freezing together should we get another cold snap. Observations about the car...I was surprised that I didn't get through more fuel and whilst the engine doesn't sip the fuel I was happy not to use more than about 80 pounds worth of fuel during the whole weekend.
Another point well worth mentioning is that after some investigation I don't think I have 'that' rusty a bulkhead. The driver's footwell had been wet under the carpet since I bought the car, but prior to departure I removed the sodden matting-type material under the carpet. Immediately this got rid of the godawful funk in the car, making the imminent journey more attractive. After thoroughly drying the area I noted whilst there was a little rust around the accelerator hinge, there's certainly none visible higher up the footwell area, something I am choosing to take as a positive sign. An even brighter note being that despite driving through rain, enduring several overnight showers, and being subject to my pouring a full bottle of water over the air intakes, the car has refused to leak at all over the weekend.
I am not naive enough to suggest I don't have any rust in the bulkhead - an inspection will reveal all no doubt, but at the moment I can say with some semi-informed hope I don't have water pouring into the footwell as is so often the case. I think some preventative measures will be needed in the spring if I am lucky. The question remains however - where did that water come from in the first place? Answers on a postcard and don't worry about bursting my hopeful bubble.
The heater is currently all over the place with a new motor in the post. I am getting warm air from the drivers side nozzle nearest the door, and cold air from the other three, regardless of what I do with the 4 mysterious vertical levers of climate change on the dash. At times more air comes through those slots into which those levers themselves sit rather than the nozzles themselves. There also seems to be air blowing around the passenger door area near the footwell - weather seals perhaps? Let's see what a new motor does, but some investigation required.
Opening the windows, even at some speed results in some fumes entering the cabin. Perished fuel lines perhaps and certainly something I need to get atop of living in a city.
More good news - I have kickdown. The carpet hadn't been aligned correctly meaning the pedal was not pushing directly against the solenoid. Easily solved and the car pulls as it should, as demonstrated to an E-type driver this afternoon on the M40.
Finally I get some wind noise around the top of the car (the sunroof being firmly closed), often at random speeds - a feature of the SLC perhaps?
Plenty of positive comments and even observed someone taking photos of it in a car park. Here we are at Cowley Manor - a superb hotel I knew nothing of until we perused Booking.com from the excellent privately-run services at jcn 11a on the M5...both the hotel and the services were outstanding.
Thanks for reading.
Pauly
What to do? Rather than spend several hours on Skyscanner trying to find something suitable we hopped in the SL and left London, not knowing where we might end up. No better opportunity to stretch the car's legs at last.
A little over 350 miles and just over a tank of fuel later we are back having been all around Oxfordshire and Gloucestershire. Driving holidays like this never fail to remind me what a beautiful country we live in. Towns and villages such as Marlborough, Stow-on-the-Wold, Bourton-on-the-Water and Ledbury were visited and the car never missed a beat.
First things first - this was fitted just before we left:
Much better. No worries about my eyelids freezing together should we get another cold snap. Observations about the car...I was surprised that I didn't get through more fuel and whilst the engine doesn't sip the fuel I was happy not to use more than about 80 pounds worth of fuel during the whole weekend.
Another point well worth mentioning is that after some investigation I don't think I have 'that' rusty a bulkhead. The driver's footwell had been wet under the carpet since I bought the car, but prior to departure I removed the sodden matting-type material under the carpet. Immediately this got rid of the godawful funk in the car, making the imminent journey more attractive. After thoroughly drying the area I noted whilst there was a little rust around the accelerator hinge, there's certainly none visible higher up the footwell area, something I am choosing to take as a positive sign. An even brighter note being that despite driving through rain, enduring several overnight showers, and being subject to my pouring a full bottle of water over the air intakes, the car has refused to leak at all over the weekend.
I am not naive enough to suggest I don't have any rust in the bulkhead - an inspection will reveal all no doubt, but at the moment I can say with some semi-informed hope I don't have water pouring into the footwell as is so often the case. I think some preventative measures will be needed in the spring if I am lucky. The question remains however - where did that water come from in the first place? Answers on a postcard and don't worry about bursting my hopeful bubble.
The heater is currently all over the place with a new motor in the post. I am getting warm air from the drivers side nozzle nearest the door, and cold air from the other three, regardless of what I do with the 4 mysterious vertical levers of climate change on the dash. At times more air comes through those slots into which those levers themselves sit rather than the nozzles themselves. There also seems to be air blowing around the passenger door area near the footwell - weather seals perhaps? Let's see what a new motor does, but some investigation required.
Opening the windows, even at some speed results in some fumes entering the cabin. Perished fuel lines perhaps and certainly something I need to get atop of living in a city.
More good news - I have kickdown. The carpet hadn't been aligned correctly meaning the pedal was not pushing directly against the solenoid. Easily solved and the car pulls as it should, as demonstrated to an E-type driver this afternoon on the M40.
Finally I get some wind noise around the top of the car (the sunroof being firmly closed), often at random speeds - a feature of the SLC perhaps?
Plenty of positive comments and even observed someone taking photos of it in a car park. Here we are at Cowley Manor - a superb hotel I knew nothing of until we perused Booking.com from the excellent privately-run services at jcn 11a on the M5...both the hotel and the services were outstanding.
Thanks for reading.
Pauly
Edited by paulyv on Thursday 3rd January 16:11
Thanks all. I will start some more thorough investigation into where this moisture might be coming from if and when it returns, but your ideas on that and the fuel smell issue are welcomed. I will get those fuel-related items changed as a matter of course in any case.
CdG - how uncanny that your daughter worked at the services. We spent plenty on biscuits and desserts on this occasion as well as partaking of a delicious lunch. I love the place and it really is a welcome change.
Also apologies for spelling 'knew' incorrectly in the above posting...I would like it noted that my phone is the moron, not me, at least on this occasion.
CdG - how uncanny that your daughter worked at the services. We spent plenty on biscuits and desserts on this occasion as well as partaking of a delicious lunch. I love the place and it really is a welcome change.
Also apologies for spelling 'knew' incorrectly in the above posting...I would like it noted that my phone is the moron, not me, at least on this occasion.
Edited by paulyv on Sunday 25th March 23:05
Some posts ago I jauntily described how to remove the blower, although I had never actually done it - spare us from so-called 'experts' like myself. Allow me to set things straight. Every guide to removing the SL heater blower I have seen states there are 4 bolts holding the unit into the bulkhead. THERE ARE NOT - THERE ARE FIVE as I eventually found out today.
A new blower unit arrived from the SL Shop today. Seems to be a good design - not identical but similar enough to the old unit. Should hopefully see me out for the next decade. With an extra hour in the day I now have time to toil over the car after work, so no time like the present. Out I strode, vintage socket set (with much needed extension) in hand.
Bonnet up, ready to go. I started by removing the 8 screws clamping the hopefully weather-proof lid to the bulkhead. Easy, although you do need a short stubby screwdriver as there isn't much room to access the upper 4 due to the bonnet. A little prying lifts the lid off and there is your blower. 2 of the supposed 4 bolts holding it in are clearly visible at the top...not so easy are the remaining '2' which are deeper down in the bulkhead and cannot be seen as the bonnet gets in the way of your head as you peer into the bulkhead itself. A camera helps you see the situation and you can feel them on each corner. An extension is required on the socket as they are quite low down.
Next I unplugged the connector running to the resistor pack on the unit - it just pulls out, and I then removed the 2 screws which hold the resistor pack to the bulkhead. If you have a short philips-head screwdriver you won't need to remove the airbox which restricts the angle you can get to them if you have a longer screwdriver.
So, by my reckoning we should be all done. But no - the unit wouldn't come out. It felt like the lower half was welded to the bulkhead along the gasket. I spent a good 15 minutes pulling, pushing, twisting, scraping my knuckles, swearing, peering, waiting until passers by had gone until I resumed beating the unit unto submission, and repeatedly photographing and I still couldn't understand why it was not shifting...had the previous owner superglued the thing in place? I would not put it past him. I couldn't get my head in far enough to see the bottom edge of the blower and by this time my phone was low on battery and would not let me use the flash. Wits end time.
It was purely by chance as I broggled (an old Lincolnshire word - it means to get an eel out of a muddy hole with stick) the socket extension in the area below the blower that all became clear as it randomly snagged and connected to something. There's a fifth bolt down there in the middle of the two fans. A FIFTH BOLT.
One more bolt off and the unit lifted out as promised on the interwebs. Positive to see no sign of rust coming through here, although I appreciate that's no proof of a clean bulkhead.
So given my time wasting that's as far as I got tonight. I put the cover back on the area and closed the bonnet. Later this week I am going to have to figure out how to attach the existing resistor pack onto the new blower...expect another tale of several hours wasted as I don't know what I am doing. If anyone has ever done that or knows a link online to a guide I would be more than thrilled to hear from them.
A new blower unit arrived from the SL Shop today. Seems to be a good design - not identical but similar enough to the old unit. Should hopefully see me out for the next decade. With an extra hour in the day I now have time to toil over the car after work, so no time like the present. Out I strode, vintage socket set (with much needed extension) in hand.
Bonnet up, ready to go. I started by removing the 8 screws clamping the hopefully weather-proof lid to the bulkhead. Easy, although you do need a short stubby screwdriver as there isn't much room to access the upper 4 due to the bonnet. A little prying lifts the lid off and there is your blower. 2 of the supposed 4 bolts holding it in are clearly visible at the top...not so easy are the remaining '2' which are deeper down in the bulkhead and cannot be seen as the bonnet gets in the way of your head as you peer into the bulkhead itself. A camera helps you see the situation and you can feel them on each corner. An extension is required on the socket as they are quite low down.
Next I unplugged the connector running to the resistor pack on the unit - it just pulls out, and I then removed the 2 screws which hold the resistor pack to the bulkhead. If you have a short philips-head screwdriver you won't need to remove the airbox which restricts the angle you can get to them if you have a longer screwdriver.
So, by my reckoning we should be all done. But no - the unit wouldn't come out. It felt like the lower half was welded to the bulkhead along the gasket. I spent a good 15 minutes pulling, pushing, twisting, scraping my knuckles, swearing, peering, waiting until passers by had gone until I resumed beating the unit unto submission, and repeatedly photographing and I still couldn't understand why it was not shifting...had the previous owner superglued the thing in place? I would not put it past him. I couldn't get my head in far enough to see the bottom edge of the blower and by this time my phone was low on battery and would not let me use the flash. Wits end time.
It was purely by chance as I broggled (an old Lincolnshire word - it means to get an eel out of a muddy hole with stick) the socket extension in the area below the blower that all became clear as it randomly snagged and connected to something. There's a fifth bolt down there in the middle of the two fans. A FIFTH BOLT.
One more bolt off and the unit lifted out as promised on the interwebs. Positive to see no sign of rust coming through here, although I appreciate that's no proof of a clean bulkhead.
So given my time wasting that's as far as I got tonight. I put the cover back on the area and closed the bonnet. Later this week I am going to have to figure out how to attach the existing resistor pack onto the new blower...expect another tale of several hours wasted as I don't know what I am doing. If anyone has ever done that or knows a link online to a guide I would be more than thrilled to hear from them.
Edited by paulyv on Tuesday 27th March 20:21
Time on my hands today between Easter eggs so moved the resistor pack over from the old blower to the new.
After cleaning 39 years of dust and grot from the component I saw the design of the resistor means it's very difficult to undo the electrical joints without reducing the pack to its constituent parts so I chose to use wire connectors. It doesn't look as pretty, and I will be adding some insulation tape to ensure moisture can't enter, but it'll have to do and as it sits out of the way in the blower case I think it'll remain reliable.
These resistor packs go for a pretty penny on Ebay and the like so I am thrilled to be able to reuse it. Can't wait to find out my removal of the South African grit from inside the casing has rendered it useless. Doesn't seems to be too much to go wrong in here however.
A new blower gasket is arriving tomorrow and I should get the chance to get all of this back in the car by the middle of the week.
Thanks to your advice the car is now booked in to be peered at by Edward Hall from the 16th April. With my original concern of bulkhead rot somewhat sidestepped I will have him glance at that but concentrate on those fuel lines so I can undertake a long journey without going green. It'll be interesting to get his general view of the car.
After cleaning 39 years of dust and grot from the component I saw the design of the resistor means it's very difficult to undo the electrical joints without reducing the pack to its constituent parts so I chose to use wire connectors. It doesn't look as pretty, and I will be adding some insulation tape to ensure moisture can't enter, but it'll have to do and as it sits out of the way in the blower case I think it'll remain reliable.
These resistor packs go for a pretty penny on Ebay and the like so I am thrilled to be able to reuse it. Can't wait to find out my removal of the South African grit from inside the casing has rendered it useless. Doesn't seems to be too much to go wrong in here however.
A new blower gasket is arriving tomorrow and I should get the chance to get all of this back in the car by the middle of the week.
Thanks to your advice the car is now booked in to be peered at by Edward Hall from the 16th April. With my original concern of bulkhead rot somewhat sidestepped I will have him glance at that but concentrate on those fuel lines so I can undertake a long journey without going green. It'll be interesting to get his general view of the car.
Morning.
The second headlight dipper switch is by the gear selector, where one might expect to find the speaker fader switch on some models.
I do think I have had a heater trim change at some point in time. Indeed I have what must be the original one. It has 2 LED's and a sensor drilled into it for some kind of 80's alarm which likely pumped out microwaves - would have been useful when I was freezing cold in it last month.
I doubt I need either of these switches, so the positive is that if I get a replacement wooden trim for around the gear selector (my lacquer is cracked there) I can fit one without the headlamp dial.
The second headlight dipper switch is by the gear selector, where one might expect to find the speaker fader switch on some models.
I do think I have had a heater trim change at some point in time. Indeed I have what must be the original one. It has 2 LED's and a sensor drilled into it for some kind of 80's alarm which likely pumped out microwaves - would have been useful when I was freezing cold in it last month.
I doubt I need either of these switches, so the positive is that if I get a replacement wooden trim for around the gear selector (my lacquer is cracked there) I can fit one without the headlamp dial.
It's one thing after another here.
So looking at the blower motor supplied I can see the new one has a different base to the old blower motor - notice the upward angle on the base of the moulding. If I try to place the motor into the aperture in the bulkhead with that upward part facing in the direction of travel I cannot get it in. If I place it the other way around there's no way to bolt it down due to the flanges and the holes not being in the correct positions.
I am assuming I am having difficulties in getting the right angle to place this back inside the car - I have heard you need to get the exact angle, but 20 minutes of trying and I still haven't found it.
Anyone here changed a blower motor or any thoughts whilst I await a reply? On the plus side when connected the blower works perfectly.
So looking at the blower motor supplied I can see the new one has a different base to the old blower motor - notice the upward angle on the base of the moulding. If I try to place the motor into the aperture in the bulkhead with that upward part facing in the direction of travel I cannot get it in. If I place it the other way around there's no way to bolt it down due to the flanges and the holes not being in the correct positions.
I am assuming I am having difficulties in getting the right angle to place this back inside the car - I have heard you need to get the exact angle, but 20 minutes of trying and I still haven't found it.
Anyone here changed a blower motor or any thoughts whilst I await a reply? On the plus side when connected the blower works perfectly.
Edited by paulyv on Wednesday 4th April 20:45
I did consider that but it is in a terrible old state. The item I have is sold as a direct replacement so I must be missing something in the manner in which I am trying to get it back into the car. I'll await word from the SL Shop and we'll see what's what.
If I find out anything useful I will post it up for future reference.
If I find out anything useful I will post it up for future reference.
A Sunday evening update whilst the Bahrain GP plays on the TV. Both Red Bulls out already. Hard to root for Mercedes in F1 as they hold a penchant for domination greater than that of Max Moseley. I hope their cars don't have the heating problems I have experienced nor wait for parts as long as I have to.
Blower - Seems I was not going nuts, nor is my mechanical savvy quite as poor as I had feared. The manufacturer of the replacement blower motor had made a schoolboy error. After a couple of emails to the SL Shop they, unprompted, took the time to fit one to their own car and found an error in the manner in which the base had been glued to the blower cover. Not ideal but to be fair they were very communicative, and very helpful. No harm done and I will get another one in the post in the coming week.
My Puma is out of MOT and we had a weekend booked away with friends so was in something of a pickle. The Duchess became the chosen weapon, and we decided to venture on the journey, back to Gloucester again of all places (we forgot we had this upcoming trip when we ventured out that way a fortnight ago), with no heater in place. A couple of blankets for my valued passenger and I am happy to report it was a pleasant and rapid journey. Rain all the way down which again showed no signs in the footwells, but some water in the boot on this occasion. Given the threads I have seen on here I'll check the seals and do the talcum powder trick. Still a happy driver.
This time next week I will be staying in a cheap hotel in Edward Hall's neck of the woods who shall become custodian for the month from Monday morning. In no particular order I am aiming for:
A bulkhead inspection.
Fuel lines/inspect for fumes.
Fitting of a new heater.
Looking over the heater behaviour...when fitted it randomly blew at full blast when the car was warmed up - anyone else had this? Possibly the resistor pack perhaps?
Checking the bushes and replacement as required.
Tracking down the odd draught around the car.
Timing chain.
A little tidy up, for example the cover of my back seat has come away along the full length near the parcel shelf.
Thanks for reading. I will update with anything I learn this month for the greater good.
Blower - Seems I was not going nuts, nor is my mechanical savvy quite as poor as I had feared. The manufacturer of the replacement blower motor had made a schoolboy error. After a couple of emails to the SL Shop they, unprompted, took the time to fit one to their own car and found an error in the manner in which the base had been glued to the blower cover. Not ideal but to be fair they were very communicative, and very helpful. No harm done and I will get another one in the post in the coming week.
My Puma is out of MOT and we had a weekend booked away with friends so was in something of a pickle. The Duchess became the chosen weapon, and we decided to venture on the journey, back to Gloucester again of all places (we forgot we had this upcoming trip when we ventured out that way a fortnight ago), with no heater in place. A couple of blankets for my valued passenger and I am happy to report it was a pleasant and rapid journey. Rain all the way down which again showed no signs in the footwells, but some water in the boot on this occasion. Given the threads I have seen on here I'll check the seals and do the talcum powder trick. Still a happy driver.
This time next week I will be staying in a cheap hotel in Edward Hall's neck of the woods who shall become custodian for the month from Monday morning. In no particular order I am aiming for:
A bulkhead inspection.
Fuel lines/inspect for fumes.
Fitting of a new heater.
Looking over the heater behaviour...when fitted it randomly blew at full blast when the car was warmed up - anyone else had this? Possibly the resistor pack perhaps?
Checking the bushes and replacement as required.
Tracking down the odd draught around the car.
Timing chain.
A little tidy up, for example the cover of my back seat has come away along the full length near the parcel shelf.
Thanks for reading. I will update with anything I learn this month for the greater good.
After a run up to the midlands over the weekend, this Monday morning rolled around which meant it was time to take the Duchess for her date with Edward Hall, as recommended through this forum.
I recall it was CdG and Strela who recommended Edward, so thanks for that. Indeed Strela your name came up and a car in their garage reminded me of your wonderful machine.
What a lovely place to visit, with equally lovely people working there. I met Edward upon arrival and we soon had a look over my SLC, which was in good company.
A full inspection is going to be carried out but some things I learned as a result of his first glance and drive:
Structurally it looked solid to the eye - we didn't get it up on the ramp but at least nothing fell off as Edward prodded around.
I am getting fumes in the cabin, possibly from a lack of seals around the bottom of the boot of all places.
I may be getting more vibration from the engine than I might reasonably expect.
I do encounter a little more wind noise than is usual.
I need a new thermostat as my car runs cool (not in the Fonzy sense)
The car may have been retrimmed in black leather, possibly at the South African factory, possibly later.
My boot leak is likely through the rear window where the sealant has gone hard and porous.
There are after market bolts around the bulkhead, so possibly someone has already done work in there...
I was generously offered a lift to the train station and for now the car will remain with his team for a report in the future, after which we can plan out what work is pressing and what might be done later in the year. Happy to know it is clearly in very safe hands.
So you won't hear from me for a few weeks, at least on this thread, but in the mean time have a look at what was sitting around Edward's premises. That last SLC was beautiful as a result of a full restoration.
I recall it was CdG and Strela who recommended Edward, so thanks for that. Indeed Strela your name came up and a car in their garage reminded me of your wonderful machine.
What a lovely place to visit, with equally lovely people working there. I met Edward upon arrival and we soon had a look over my SLC, which was in good company.
A full inspection is going to be carried out but some things I learned as a result of his first glance and drive:
Structurally it looked solid to the eye - we didn't get it up on the ramp but at least nothing fell off as Edward prodded around.
I am getting fumes in the cabin, possibly from a lack of seals around the bottom of the boot of all places.
I may be getting more vibration from the engine than I might reasonably expect.
I do encounter a little more wind noise than is usual.
I need a new thermostat as my car runs cool (not in the Fonzy sense)
The car may have been retrimmed in black leather, possibly at the South African factory, possibly later.
My boot leak is likely through the rear window where the sealant has gone hard and porous.
There are after market bolts around the bulkhead, so possibly someone has already done work in there...
I was generously offered a lift to the train station and for now the car will remain with his team for a report in the future, after which we can plan out what work is pressing and what might be done later in the year. Happy to know it is clearly in very safe hands.
So you won't hear from me for a few weeks, at least on this thread, but in the mean time have a look at what was sitting around Edward's premises. That last SLC was beautiful as a result of a full restoration.
Edited by paulyv on Monday 16th April 12:00
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