2005 BMW M6 V10

[bolidemichael]

James B said:

Hot Knife said:

Hi James,

I am considering the M6, it's a bit of a daunting purchase so not jumping otherwise I would snap yours up in a second and I wish you weren't offering it just yet!

I'm just wondering what you think re the back seat size. I have an 11 year old and a 7 year old do you think the back seat is too small for them? The legroom looks doable if the seats are pushed forward a little, do you think this is practical?

I would appreciate your opinion.

Hi there! Well I can absolutely recommend the M6 as a car to go for, it really is superb in both performance and usability.

As for the rear seats, I have had full adults in them but only for short journeys. I would say that it’s ideal for my son in his car seat and someone car sit in front of him easily but not necessarily as far back or reclined as they would usually want to be. The buckets are very buckety though so you may find they are supremely comfortable for a smaller human. It looks a very nice place to be although my wife feels it would be claustrophobic for her to sit there which is understandable

I parted ways with my 645Ci because children on a seat couldn't sit comfortably with little legs necessarily outstretched. For an adult, the rear seats are cripplingly uncomfortable. The journey that convinced me to part ways was a traffic laden one from North to South London and I was the rear passenger. I had to resort to stretching legs out across both buckets, most awkward.

I imagine that the window of individuals for whom this may be comfortable is in amongst the 11 to 13 range that you might be approaching, height dependent. The legroom is paltry and the compromise on the front occupants unacceptable.

[Speed addicted]

I’ve put people in the back of my 645 for short journeys. You need to be reasonably flexible (to get back out) and quite small, also as I’m 6’2” no-one can get in behind me without my seat being an awfully long way forward. Once in it’s apparently quite comfortable!

I find the rear seats perfect for my jacket and occasionally a bag or something. Think of them as a nicely trimmed shelf that small people can sit in if required and you’re about there.

Much the same as the Jaguar XK, Porsche 911 etc.

[Hot Knife]

Speed addicted said:

I’ve put people in the back of my 645 for short journeys. You need to be reasonably flexible (to get back out) and quite small, also as I’m 6’2” no-one can get in behind me without my seat being an awfully long way forward. Once in it’s apparently quite comfortable!

I find the rear seats perfect for my jacket and occasionally a bag or something. Think of them as a nicely trimmed shelf that small people can sit in if required and you’re about there.

Much the same as the Jaguar XK, Porsche 911 etc.

I'm 6ft 5, which is obviously an issue, but my wife is a very petite 5ft and my 7 year old daughter is following her mum, she's very tiny. My boy is going to be more like me but he would have the benefit of a very tiny mother in front of him so it may well work.

The whole family is excited about the thought of the car. We just have to go and try one out. But it may well be that a Panamera is the better option.

Edited by Hot Knife on Sunday 12th May 12:39

[bolidemichael]

Hot Knife said:

I'm 6ft 5, which is obviously an issue, but my wife is a very petite 5ft and my 7 year old daughter is following her mum, she's very tiny. My boy is going to be more like me but he would have the benefit of a very tiny mother in front of him so it may well work.

The whole family is excited about the thought of the car. We just have to go and try one out. But it may well be that a Panamera is the better option.

Edited by Hot Knife on Sunday 12th May 12:39

Bear in mind that the rear windows don't open and are quite high.

[Hot Knife]

bolidemichael said:

Bear in mind that the rear windows don't open and are quite high.

Ahhhh good point, thanks

[rdysan]

That's a cracking price James. I'm majorly tempted and I already own two as you know. If it doesn't sell at the full asking price then there is something seriously wrong with this world. I understand your reasoning for letting the Russian go but I'll lay a penny to a pound you'll wake up in the future and think "what have I done?"

[James B]

rdysan said:

That's a cracking price James. I'm majorly tempted and I already own two as you know. If it doesn't sell at the full asking price then there is something seriously wrong with this world. I understand your reasoning for letting the Russian go but I'll lay a penny to a pound you'll wake up in the future and think "what have I done?"

Thanks. Yes you do have previous for owning these! One of your pals was messaging me about the car too, not to buy just to talk, and I worked out it was you he referred to as a previous interested buyer for the car before I bought it.
I may well have regrets in the future but if fortunate enough that I have a few cars already and have experienced rather a lot of interesting before so it will be added near the top, if not at the top spot, and will be remembered fondly.
Whatever it’s replaced with will not be there to exactly replicate what it did. I’ll likely buy something wild for my west coast trips etc but the daily will need to have the ability to munch miles in comfort, like the M6 did, but not require weekly fuel stops. Of course the ability to overtake/keep up with absolutely anything on the road will be gone but I really don’t need that when carting my son to nursery etc. I won’t accept a car that doesn’t look nice nor one that won’t handle at all but my shortlisted cars meet those requirements.

Whoever buys this car will not be disappointed. They need to go into it eyes open as to what they’re buying and what the running costs are if they’re doing any real miles. I’ve been lucky and it has wanted little more than oil, water, tyres and of course a certain quantity of petrol. I am happy to step out of ownership on an absolute high with this car.

[rdysan]

That'll probably be Ben Getting as obsessed as me!

Quite honestly, if I wasn't quite so set on a quiet home life I'd love to add your steed to the garage I haven't got. That's half the problem actually - no garage

Just out of interest, what's your longer term view of owning a large engined eco killer like this? Not in terms of value but whether in a few years we'll be able to run one of these at all. I think you're into the marine side (??) but my job includes following the connected car / electric / driverless sphere and frankly I'm not sure I'm going to like the driving future that my kids are heading for - or lack of it...

GLWS but as I said I'll be amazed if it hangs around at all for that price. It's a beautiful car.

[Hot Knife]

James B said:

Thanks. Yes you do have previous for owning these! One of your pals was messaging me about the car too, not to buy just to talk, and I worked out it was you he referred to as a previous interested buyer for the car before I bought it.
I may well have regrets in the future but if fortunate enough that I have a few cars already and have experienced rather a lot of interesting before so it will be added near the top, if not at the top spot, and will be remembered fondly.
Whatever it’s replaced with will not be there to exactly replicate what it did. I’ll likely buy something wild for my west coast trips etc but the daily will need to have the ability to munch miles in comfort, like the M6 did, but not require weekly fuel stops. Of course the ability to overtake/keep up with absolutely anything on the road will be gone but I really don’t need that when carting my son to nursery etc. I won’t accept a car that doesn’t look nice nor one that won’t handle at all but my shortlisted cars meet those requirements.

Whoever buys this car will not be disappointed. They need to go into it eyes open as to what they’re buying and what the running costs are if they’re doing any real miles. I’ve been lucky and it has wanted little more than oil, water, tyres and of course a certain quantity of petrol. I am happy to step out of ownership on an absolute high with this car.

Out of interest, James, what is on your shortlist now?

[James B]

rdysan said:

That'll probably be Ben Getting as obsessed as me!

Quite honestly, if I wasn't quite so set on a quiet home life I'd love to add your steed to the garage I haven't got. That's half the problem actually - no garage

Just out of interest, what's your longer term view of owning a large engined eco killer like this? Not in terms of value but whether in a few years we'll be able to run one of these at all. I think you're into the marine side (??) but my job includes following the connected car / electric / driverless sphere and frankly I'm not sure I'm going to like the driving future that my kids are heading for - or lack of it...

GLWS but as I said I'll be amazed if it hangs around at all for that price. It's a beautiful car.

These cars can bring out the obsessive it has to be said!

I know what you mean. I'm always buying things and at my last house I had a lovely triple garage in which to house them as well as a decent drive. The new house has an even bigger drive but just a large double garage which i will extend to a quadruple at some point but until then it'll limit my purchases of garage-worthy cars!

As for your other question I too can see that the future is green and all things eco. I am actually not against it in the slightest. We did buy my wife a Cayenne Hybrid S but she absolutely hated it's indecision as to whether is was in elec or petrol mode. She kept it year and got rid of our green credentials once and for all by getting a G63! I have also had a couple of Smart ForTwos when I started my business and wanted something easy to park, unassuming, different and that everyone looked at. I emblazoned it with my company logos and they served me very well for a few years. Everyone saw this little Smart I drove daily but at home there was a 3.0 911, 4.2 Audi S4 and 2.5 Impreza Turbo race car that was towed by a V8 Discovery. Not the greenest line up I must concede.
I would be very surprised if my son's generation (he's 3) get to drive ICE cars in daily but I do feel that ICE cars will always be around. Dispensation should be made to limit their use by all means and appropriate taxes applied to those of us who choose to use them. I would argue that these taxes are already in place and the Governments of the world should further incentivise EV use with reductions vs ICE use but in all reality we know that as ICE use reduces and income from RFL/Fuel etc reduces there will be a swing to tax for EV use. That then puts the gas guzzlers in a difficult position. If the car is old enough then it may fall into a classic category; something I enjoy now with 3 of our cars being tax & mot free (albeit MOT'd annually anyway for safety). If they choose to go the Japanese route of heavily punitive taxation for larger engines then we may see great swathes of cars that are deemed valueless overnight. Sadly things like the M6 could be lost to a ruling like this. They haven't quite hit classic status and could be lumped in with a large engined, but still quite vanilla, 3 series and retired to the scrap yard.
I think there is still a little way to go before the EV is perfected and even further before truly autonomous cars are able to operate together but I do see that some time in the not too distant future the likes of California will declare an EV-only status and autonomous cars will ferry citizens to and from their homes/offices at speed without traffic jams. When that day comes there will be no place for ICE on the road as they will be unable to fit in and react like an autonomous EV will.

There are no doubt massive holes in my thinking and this is the very first time I've ever put these thoughts into writing. I haven't really even spoken them previously.

[James B]

Hot Knife said:

Out of interest, James, what is on your shortlist now?

There are some parameters to consider in this too.
I'm willing to pay up to £30k.
Needs to have good fuel economy which i've deemed to be 35mpg+
Needs to be able to fit my son in his car seat in the rear. (My wife complains a little about putting him in the back of the M6 as it's a little awkward. I have it down to a fine art but I can see where she's coming from. My list therefore has both 2 and 4 door options.)
I live in the country now and it can really snow. I am very comfortable with a RWD car in any conditions where the tyres or low bodywork are not overwhelmed (deep snow for example). I typically run winters on all our cars in the winter. 4wd might be a preference for this reason.
Needs to have enough power for me to pass dawdlers on the commute. High 200's would be a minimum. I am happy to remap so the standard car need not meet this limit. (The A5 3.0 TDi is a good example of this. The latest version is super eco for ULEZ and outputs a measly 210 or so bhp but the engine appears to be exactly the same as the 280bhp version which remaps to 340bhp with ease. Literally the same remap takes the 210 bar to 340 and all for £500. Wild!)
Has to handle. I do still want to take this on little blasts when the opportunity arises.
Can't be huge as the car park at my office has an extremely tight exit turn and there are vehicles stuck/scraped there daily!
Has to make me look back at it once i've parked it. I love the look of the M6 as i return to it. It sits there quietly and unassuming but for the slight tell tales of the chunky tyres on large wheels, big brakes and subtle badging. I think this of a number of the BMW range. Their designers have hit a sweet spot for me with their cars at the moment.

With the above in mind the shortlist for the moment is;

Audi A5 3.0 TDI S-line Quattro Coupe
BMW 4 Series 435d X-Drive M Sport Coupe
BMW 4 Series 435d X-Drive M Sport Convertible
BMW 4 Series 430d M Sport Coupe
BMW 6 Series 640d M Sport Coupe
BMW 6 Series 640d M Sport Gran Coupe

I'm always open to suggestions too. I did consider Mercedes but I'm not sold on their looks for the generation I will be looking at, nor their interior. The Panamera is also a consideration but too elderly at my budget. I would look at hybrid and did so but i'm not a Lexus fan and the other hybrids fell foul of the fun to drive requirement.

[bolidemichael]

Hi James,

Whilst doing my best (incidentally) to dissuade potential buyers with young families from purchasing an E63, I have enjoyed keeping up with your thread. Maintain another one too with a new car (perhaps an ISF for n/a unicorn value), as you have a very approachable style and a methodology that suits my own approach to driving and ownership.

My 'fine art' method of child in car (E63) was 'seat forward. left foot in, bring child in, right foot in (this is behind the passenger seat), squat, child in seat, swivel, left foot out, land on face'.

Michael

[Hot Knife]

James B said:

There are some parameters to consider in this too.
I'm willing to pay up to £30k.
Needs to have good fuel economy which i've deemed to be 35mpg+
Needs to be able to fit my son in his car seat in the rear. (My wife complains a little about putting him in the back of the M6 as it's a little awkward. I have it down to a fine art but I can see where she's coming from. My list therefore has both 2 and 4 door options.)
I live in the country now and it can really snow. I am very comfortable with a RWD car in any conditions where the tyres or low bodywork are not overwhelmed (deep snow for example). I typically run winters on all our cars in the winter. 4wd might be a preference for this reason.
Needs to have enough power for me to pass dawdlers on the commute. High 200's would be a minimum. I am happy to remap so the standard car need not meet this limit. (The A5 3.0 TDi is a good example of this. The latest version is super eco for ULEZ and outputs a measly 210 or so bhp but the engine appears to be exactly the same as the 280bhp version which remaps to 340bhp with ease. Literally the same remap takes the 210 bar to 340 and all for £500. Wild!)
Has to handle. I do still want to take this on little blasts when the opportunity arises.
Can't be huge as the car park at my office has an extremely tight exit turn and there are vehicles stuck/scraped there daily!
Has to make me look back at it once i've parked it. I love the look of the M6 as i return to it. It sits there quietly and unassuming but for the slight tell tales of the chunky tyres on large wheels, big brakes and subtle badging. I think this of a number of the BMW range. Their designers have hit a sweet spot for me with their cars at the moment.

With the above in mind the shortlist for the moment is;

Audi A5 3.0 TDI S-line Quattro Coupe
BMW 4 Series 435d X-Drive M Sport Coupe
BMW 4 Series 435d X-Drive M Sport Convertible
BMW 4 Series 430d M Sport Coupe
BMW 6 Series 640d M Sport Coupe
BMW 6 Series 640d M Sport Gran Coupe

I'm always open to suggestions too. I did consider Mercedes but I'm not sold on their looks for the generation I will be looking at, nor their interior. The Panamera is also a consideration but too elderly at my budget. I would look at hybrid and did so but i'm not a Lexus fan and the other hybrids fell foul of the fun to drive requirement.

Thanks, that was an interesting read.

I'm in love the M6 and it seems for the same reasons as you. I really want to try one out but my wife has practicality on this list much higher than I do. sigh. I think it might work and will try one out but I'm also going to take a look at the M6 GC which might be better with the growing kids. But I just really love the Bangle design, I think it's unusual and really strikingly beautiful.

I do have an interest in the 640D as well but less so, as I read it's just not as fun to drive. Still will read into it further and try one out anyway.

I am also considering an M4 (which I do really quite like as a balance of power, MPG and practicality), M3 (for the V8 sound track), M5 (as a more all rounder and better back seat) and the Porsche Panamera Turbo. The Porsche is very interesting to me and the interior is to die for and will make planned trips to Europe that much more comfortable for front and back seat passengers.

The Diesel and Hybrid Panamera's look pretty good MPG wise too.

I think if I was in need of long distance traveller like you I might consider an LPG conversion. I have a friend with a Cayenne Turbo LPG conversion and it's a brilliant car, all the V8 Perks with ridiculously good economy.

Goodluck with the M6 and new acquisition. I might end up paying you a visit at some point if it's still available once I have figured things out.

Edited by Hot Knife on Monday 13th May 12:56

Edited by Hot Knife on Monday 13th May 12:56

[8bit]

James B said:

Thanks Niall,

Well we ended up selling in just 1 weeks which was pretty incredible. We got a house out in Banchory which is a town i've always loved.

If you're ever out then drop me a line. We're just over from the Tor Na Coille.

In the meantime the ad is now live. Thanks too to you, Niall, for the brilliant pics.

Ad link

Haha, I love it! I'd happily have shot a few more/better ones for the ad if you'd wanted? I don't imagine it'll take any longer to sell the car than you did to sell the house but if you do somehow find yourself wanting to refresh the ad a little the pop me a note.

Banchory will be great, I like it out there and you're literally right in the middle of some of the best roads in Scotland. I keep looking at properties in Aboyne for chiefly the same reason...

[Pizzaeatingking]

James B said:

With the above in mind the shortlist for the moment is;

Audi A5 3.0 TDI S-line Quattro Coupe
BMW 4 Series 435d X-Drive M Sport Coupe
BMW 4 Series 435d X-Drive M Sport Convertible
BMW 4 Series 430d M Sport Coupe
BMW 6 Series 640d M Sport Coupe
BMW 6 Series 640d M Sport Gran Coupe

I'm always open to suggestions too. I did consider Mercedes but I'm not sold on their looks for the generation I will be looking at, nor their interior. The Panamera is also a consideration but too elderly at my budget. I would look at hybrid and did so but i'm not a Lexus fan and the other hybrids fell foul of the fun to drive requirement.

The B58 engine from BMW is fantastic, unless you're doing mega miles I'd seek out a 40i model over a 35d model of your chosen car, you'll at least get some noise and drama vs the diesel.

[Hot Knife]

Just to add - I do hope the new owner of your M6 continues this thread or starts another linked one. It's really interesting to watch the history of such a good example move through the ages.

[Hot Knife]

James B said:

These cars can bring out the obsessive it has to be said!

I know what you mean. I'm always buying things and at my last house I had a lovely triple garage in which to house them as well as a decent drive. The new house has an even bigger drive but just a large double garage which i will extend to a quadruple at some point but until then it'll limit my purchases of garage-worthy cars!

As for your other question I too can see that the future is green and all things eco. I am actually not against it in the slightest. We did buy my wife a Cayenne Hybrid S but she absolutely hated it's indecision as to whether is was in elec or petrol mode. She kept it year and got rid of our green credentials once and for all by getting a G63! I have also had a couple of Smart ForTwos when I started my business and wanted something easy to park, unassuming, different and that everyone looked at. I emblazoned it with my company logos and they served me very well for a few years. Everyone saw this little Smart I drove daily but at home there was a 3.0 911, 4.2 Audi S4 and 2.5 Impreza Turbo race car that was towed by a V8 Discovery. Not the greenest line up I must concede.
I would be very surprised if my son's generation (he's 3) get to drive ICE cars in daily but I do feel that ICE cars will always be around. Dispensation should be made to limit their use by all means and appropriate taxes applied to those of us who choose to use them. I would argue that these taxes are already in place and the Governments of the world should further incentivise EV use with reductions vs ICE use but in all reality we know that as ICE use reduces and income from RFL/Fuel etc reduces there will be a swing to tax for EV use. That then puts the gas guzzlers in a difficult position. If the car is old enough then it may fall into a classic category; something I enjoy now with 3 of our cars being tax & mot free (albeit MOT'd annually anyway for safety). If they choose to go the Japanese route of heavily punitive taxation for larger engines then we may see great swathes of cars that are deemed valueless overnight. Sadly things like the M6 could be lost to a ruling like this. They haven't quite hit classic status and could be lumped in with a large engined, but still quite vanilla, 3 series and retired to the scrap yard.
I think there is still a little way to go before the EV is perfected and even further before truly autonomous cars are able to operate together but I do see that some time in the not too distant future the likes of California will declare an EV-only status and autonomous cars will ferry citizens to and from their homes/offices at speed without traffic jams. When that day comes there will be no place for ICE on the road as they will be unable to fit in and react like an autonomous EV will.

There are no doubt massive holes in my thinking and this is the very first time I've ever put these thoughts into writing. I haven't really even spoken them previously.

Actually, there is a lot of marketing in current EV's. Car companies were struggling, government bailouts were becoming more regular, more probable and also more difficult. A great way to reinvigorate the market is with incentivised Electric Cars and Hybrids. Get them buying something that on paper seems better.

The Carbon footprint in the production of an EV is significantly larger than that of a combustion engined car. The rocks need to be mined in Australia, sent to China to be crushed and processed, sent to Thailand to be turned into batteries, sent back to China to be assembled and then out to car manufacturer's in Japan, USA etc. It then gets shipped out to your country and shipped further to your dealer and you. There are 6 journey's via ocean liner and each journey uses 6 MILLION dollars worth of fuel and a further 10% on top is lost in "unpumpables", the fuel that goes to waste in the pumping tanks from contamination at the bottom of the tank and moisture. Then there are many cars that are lost at sea causing catastrophic damage as they degrade. This is even before you can get a hold of it!

The technology is not even there yet. Driving from London to Cornwall means you need to stop 3 times for one hour to charge. And with our current technology and the way we use these batteries means that the batteries do not last that well from the damage done by constant fast charging. So the car doesn't live as long and is putting more toxic waste into the environment, sooner. The cost of these batteries will mean that in many cases it is not feasible to replace especially in the future so cars will be junked and scrapped sooner leading to an increase in consumption of the cars and components, repeating the process all over again.

The argument is that the best thing you can do for the environment is use what you already have, or buy a used car where the majority of it's carbon footprint has already been made, providing of course it complies with emission standards and is safe. It's of course hard to precisely calculate but many argue that continuing to use even the biggest of V8 etc guzzlers have less impact on the environment overall.

Of course, that doesn't sell Electric cars though, does it?

Edited by Hot Knife on Monday 13th May 15:50

[rdysan]

@JamesB and @HotKnife - Most interesting read guys - thanks both! I remember trying to get my head around an Adam Jonas presentation about disruption in the automotive industry and I have to say his vision of the Shared Autonomy future was pretty depressing to me as a car lover...

Anyway, today I kicked against the pricks and put the grey M6 Comp in for its MOT, which thankfully it sailed through. The car's currently housed in the Oxford countryside, so today was a beautiful day to open her up a little around the roads.

[James B]

So here we are about 3 weeks on from my decision to sell.

At this moment the car remains unsold.

I've spoken to some traders and the range of offers is between £11.5k and £14k, none of which particularly float my boat.

I think the M6 is a tough car to sell privately as it needs a knowledgeable buyer to know what they're buying rather than just a fast BMW.
They're very much at the specialist end of the spectrum where they're likely too technical for the average hobbyist mechanic and can land owners with some hefty bills if there's a shortage of luck and no warranty cover.

I suspect I am suffering here with some of the above where there is a fundamental concern at the age of the car, coupled with the complexity of the mechanicals and the possibility of issues down the line. Add to that the fact the car and I are based in the North East of Scotland and you remove a considerable amount of footfall.

I would like to think that by buying a low mile car i was somewhat removing the potential for the real disasters to occur but maybe it's still too much of a concern for many buyers.

I have also modified my desires on the next car and have decided that I need to accept the pace of the journey home and just do it in comfort. Add to that something with a little height for viewing over other cars in the eventuality of an overtake and I have ended up looking at 2013 and onwards Macan DS and Range Rover Sport. I've seen an example of each that I would buy in a heartbeat so i'm exploring options on what to do with the M6. I may well be happy enough to lower my expectation a little to achieve a decent deal on either of the other cars i've seen.

[bolidemichael]

Are you selling your car with a mondial warranty attached to it? I think that this may ease the mind of a potential buyer, as well as promoting the virtues of collection from Aberdeenshire, in that the roads heading back South offer a wonderful opportunity to get or know the car!