Sensible family daily wagon - Mercedes Benz S211 E500
Discussion
C70R said:
Hmm. I have to say that the whole 'collapsed line' thing is a new one on me. I've never heard that mentioned as the cause of brake wobble.
You're in good company as ever. My Discovery has developed epic brake wobble over the past month or so, and it's going in on Monday for the annual wallet reaming.
Looking back at the (hilariously/worryingly extensive) history, it appears the front discs have done 35k. Given that we're talking about a 2.5T 4x4 that does plenty of long runs, I'd expect your discs to be lasting at least that long.
Interested to see what you find.
Absolutely they should and given that nowadays most miles are over distance, longer perhaps. I usually plan ahead and use the gears for tapering speed and I wouldn't expect that the occasional You're in good company as ever. My Discovery has developed epic brake wobble over the past month or so, and it's going in on Monday for the annual wallet reaming.
Looking back at the (hilariously/worryingly extensive) history, it appears the front discs have done 35k. Given that we're talking about a 2.5T 4x4 that does plenty of long runs, I'd expect your discs to be lasting at least that long.
Interested to see what you find.
Willber said:
Sounds like a frustrating issue!
I had a similar issue on a CLK where the hub face had corroded behind where the inner discs mates to the hub. I cleaned all this up as best I could and the issue went away. I imagine with all the investigation that yours are clean however but the hub runout gauge thingy will show up any wobble hopefully?
Could it be to do with the wheel bearings needing adjustment? Theyre simple to tighten up on Merc but you can usually feel wobble in the road wheel if they're overly loose.
Hope you get it sorted soon
I did get the sense at some stage that the front wheel bearings may have been starting to sound as though they're on the way out, but I think that it may have been the sound of the winter tyres on that particular road surface. I had a similar issue on a CLK where the hub face had corroded behind where the inner discs mates to the hub. I cleaned all this up as best I could and the issue went away. I imagine with all the investigation that yours are clean however but the hub runout gauge thingy will show up any wobble hopefully?
Could it be to do with the wheel bearings needing adjustment? Theyre simple to tighten up on Merc but you can usually feel wobble in the road wheel if they're overly loose.
Hope you get it sorted soon
I have asked repeatedly about the hubs being clean prior to the wheel discs being replaced, particularly given the frequency of the failures and have been repeatedly assured that they are clean.
E90_M3Ross said:
Very bizarre issue, that's an awful lot of brake changes. Hope you get to the bottom of it, must be very frustrating 
juddery brakes are a pain, I had them badly at points in the LS460.
It's become almost like a nervous tick now! I really (as you've probably gathered) like a car that is sound and just does its job without any discomfort for driver or passengers and this perennial issue needs sorting. juddery brakes are a pain, I had them badly at points in the LS460. 
mercedeslimos said:
5 sets of front discs in 50k! 
I know that I've got slightly juddery front brakes on the daily at the moment but they aren't warped or cracked - the heat of hard braking (motorway use when some f
ker pulls out on you etc) is pad transfer from the pad to certain parts of the disc, not evenly. Even pad transfer is a thing that happens when we bed the brakes in, but you can see spots on the disc where it's left a bit more than it should have. The fact that they are the cheapest ste pads is the problem; luckily, they are nearly gone, and I'll replace the lot with new ones.
http://forums.racingbrake.com/forum/category/gener...
Very strange that it's only the nearside though.
The MB thing eliminates (let's say, minimises) the likelihood of failure due to poor pattern quality parts. I did have the discs warping with the brembo combo (the first recorded change) and had to get the discs sorted in Barcelona. I know that I've got slightly juddery front brakes on the daily at the moment but they aren't warped or cracked - the heat of hard braking (motorway use when some f
ker pulls out on you etc) is pad transfer from the pad to certain parts of the disc, not evenly. Even pad transfer is a thing that happens when we bed the brakes in, but you can see spots on the disc where it's left a bit more than it should have. The fact that they are the cheapest ste pads is the problem; luckily, they are nearly gone, and I'll replace the lot with new ones.http://forums.racingbrake.com/forum/category/gener...
Very strange that it's only the nearside though.
It's either the SBC, in which case I'm facing the prospect of a large component cost (I'd aim to be reimbursed for the SBC work, however). Note that when I was considering it, tobinen heeded caution on this thread about the success rate of the repairs. Unfortunately, that came a little too late for me. In which case, it's 'buy cheap buy twice'.
If it's the hubs, then that's another matter.
SBC is reporting a mechanical fault and the dial gauge has reports a high spots on the discs.
Next step is to order and replace all four brake hoses, bleed the system which takes ninety minutes and measure the variance again to see whether it has been resolved.
If so, it'll be skimming the brake discs and likely cleaning the hubs.
Next step is to order and replace all four brake hoses, bleed the system which takes ninety minutes and measure the variance again to see whether it has been resolved.
If so, it'll be skimming the brake discs and likely cleaning the hubs.
As they replaced the hoses, the SBC wasn't pushing enough pressure to bleed the brakes -- ergo, it's frucked.
I've asked my Man to request a reimbursement from the SBC repair man, who says he can repair it. In exchange, we'll give him the used SBC for repair and sale.
My Man is waiting to hear back form a contact in Bosch -- they may have one remaining SBC unit available -- he used to be able to purchase them from a Bosch agent in the UK.
So, this is going to be -- one Bosch SBC, four brake hoses, two discs (don't know about the pads), PDC replacement, washer jet unblocking and alloys swapped for summers. Also sunroof lubricated.
It isn't going to be ready in time for me to drive to Athens, so I'll probably take a flight -- a shame, but I have to reap what I have sowed, in this respect. Had I swapped the SBC rather than repaired it, it would've save hassle and money, but at £2,000 it was a suitable deterrent. Had I been presented with the third option of the Bosch sourced unit, my maths would've been slightly different, I dare say.
I've asked my Man to request a reimbursement from the SBC repair man, who says he can repair it. In exchange, we'll give him the used SBC for repair and sale.
My Man is waiting to hear back form a contact in Bosch -- they may have one remaining SBC unit available -- he used to be able to purchase them from a Bosch agent in the UK.
So, this is going to be -- one Bosch SBC, four brake hoses, two discs (don't know about the pads), PDC replacement, washer jet unblocking and alloys swapped for summers. Also sunroof lubricated.
It isn't going to be ready in time for me to drive to Athens, so I'll probably take a flight -- a shame, but I have to reap what I have sowed, in this respect. Had I swapped the SBC rather than repaired it, it would've save hassle and money, but at £2,000 it was a suitable deterrent. Had I been presented with the third option of the Bosch sourced unit, my maths would've been slightly different, I dare say.
bolidemichael said:
As they replaced the hoses, the SBC wasn't pushing enough pressure to bleed the brakes -- ergo, it's frucked.
I've asked my Man to request a reimbursement from the SBC repair man, who says he can repair it. In exchange, we'll give him the used SBC for repair and sale.
My Man is waiting to hear back form a contact in Bosch -- they may have one remaining SBC unit available -- he used to be able to purchase them from a Bosch agent in the UK.
So, this is going to be -- one Bosch SBC, four brake hoses, two discs (don't know about the pads), PDC replacement, washer jet unblocking and alloys swapped for summers. Also sunroof lubricated.
It isn't going to be ready in time for me to drive to Athens, so I'll probably take a flight -- a shame, but I have to reap what I have sowed, in this respect. Had I swapped the SBC rather than repaired it, it would've save hassle and money, but at £2,000 it was a suitable deterrent. Had I been presented with the third option of the Bosch sourced unit, my maths would've been slightly different, I dare say.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and you weren't to know it'd fail. Live and learn. I hope your final bill isn't too much.I've asked my Man to request a reimbursement from the SBC repair man, who says he can repair it. In exchange, we'll give him the used SBC for repair and sale.
My Man is waiting to hear back form a contact in Bosch -- they may have one remaining SBC unit available -- he used to be able to purchase them from a Bosch agent in the UK.
So, this is going to be -- one Bosch SBC, four brake hoses, two discs (don't know about the pads), PDC replacement, washer jet unblocking and alloys swapped for summers. Also sunroof lubricated.
It isn't going to be ready in time for me to drive to Athens, so I'll probably take a flight -- a shame, but I have to reap what I have sowed, in this respect. Had I swapped the SBC rather than repaired it, it would've save hassle and money, but at £2,000 it was a suitable deterrent. Had I been presented with the third option of the Bosch sourced unit, my maths would've been slightly different, I dare say.
I think the term ‘sodding pain’ springs to mind, Michael. I’d be livid, as that’s cost you more for parts and in annoyance when the car is warping brakes.
Hope a new BOSCH one can be sourced.
I’m naive and drive cars with more conventional braking systems, but what benefits does SBC bring, exactly? I remember that and AIRMATIC were big issues on the 220 (I think) S-Class.
Hope a new BOSCH one can be sourced.
I’m naive and drive cars with more conventional braking systems, but what benefits does SBC bring, exactly? I remember that and AIRMATIC were big issues on the 220 (I think) S-Class.
I popped in for an update. The bosch part that my indy had tried to secure on the cheap was not so straightforward as they requested a VIN to release it and encountered issues releasing it as my car isn't left hand drive. So he had to go via MB Gatwick and secure it through them with a buy back price against the broken SBC (whether actual or administratively) and is currently waiting for it. He reckons he can twist the arm of the SBC refurbisher to get the money back for the unsuccessful repair, too.
Another observation is that the ride height on the near side looks correct, so there must be an element of accentuation from the new spring fitted to the offside that, as he told me at the time, makes it difficult to calibrate, therefore a reasonable approximation is required.
Another observation is that the ride height on the near side looks correct, so there must be an element of accentuation from the new spring fitted to the offside that, as he told me at the time, makes it difficult to calibrate, therefore a reasonable approximation is required.
I'm fairly calm about it as I don't need it for anything that can't be accomplished by the FFRR.
The FFRR does deserve some updates but there is quite a lot of ground covered since August's trip to France and I'm loath to catch up. Additionally, the fragmentation of car-based chat away from PH and onto whatsapp since bargegate has made the discussion of interests and issues more granular and immediate, though there isn't the stature and permanence of a thread, in addition to the encountering of new and interesting fellow enthusiasts.
The FFRR does deserve some updates but there is quite a lot of ground covered since August's trip to France and I'm loath to catch up. Additionally, the fragmentation of car-based chat away from PH and onto whatsapp since bargegate has made the discussion of interests and issues more granular and immediate, though there isn't the stature and permanence of a thread, in addition to the encountering of new and interesting fellow enthusiasts.
Cheeky, Steve!
Edmond, I suspect that it may be a long while indeed... I popped round to the indy today and the 'Bosch' round the houses part is due to arrive next Friday (yeah, right!).
As it happens, I have around ten weeks to get it back on the road as I've arrived! Yes, that's right, my prolific, incessant and self-indulgent rambling has seen Magnus ushered into the 'Reader's Cars' section of PH25 at Bicester.
I suggest that you PM me for appointments on the day and I'll be serving turkey sandwiches for all visitors but not accepting liability for those that choose to eat them.
Edmond, I suspect that it may be a long while indeed... I popped round to the indy today and the 'Bosch' round the houses part is due to arrive next Friday (yeah, right!).
As it happens, I have around ten weeks to get it back on the road as I've arrived! Yes, that's right, my prolific, incessant and self-indulgent rambling has seen Magnus ushered into the 'Reader's Cars' section of PH25 at Bicester.
I suggest that you PM me for appointments on the day and I'll be serving turkey sandwiches for all visitors but not accepting liability for those that choose to eat them.
Thanks Percy and ED. It'll be interesting to know who'll be attending, as it would be nice to put a personality to your PH 'andles.
Some movement on the Magnus front... subsequent to a delay in shipment from Germany and a debacle during which period the SBC was misplaced somewhere between Milton Keynes parts HQ and MB Gatwick, it has arrived and is in the hands of the Man. So we're on the way to getting sorted and driving on summer tyres for the first time in 2023
He did mention that there is a small hose that needs to be replaced along with the SBC that wasn't indicated on the parts 'fiche' and he is waiting for that. I do need the car back now, as I'll be using all six passenger seats to squeeze a load of thirteen year olds for a birthday party in a couple of weeks. The shortest will have to assigned the shortest straw for the rear pop up bench!
Some movement on the Magnus front... subsequent to a delay in shipment from Germany and a debacle during which period the SBC was misplaced somewhere between Milton Keynes parts HQ and MB Gatwick, it has arrived and is in the hands of the Man. So we're on the way to getting sorted and driving on summer tyres for the first time in 2023
He did mention that there is a small hose that needs to be replaced along with the SBC that wasn't indicated on the parts 'fiche' and he is waiting for that. I do need the car back now, as I'll be using all six passenger seats to squeeze a load of thirteen year olds for a birthday party in a couple of weeks. The shortest will have to assigned the shortest straw for the rear pop up bench!
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