Mk4 Golf diesel machine
Discussion
Speedgelb said:
Fastdruid said:
Speedgelb said:
Fastdruid said:
I wouldn't go SMF on a diesel.
...the risk of catastrophic failure to crank or gearbox is too high. They use a DMF for a reason and that reason is to cushion the gearbox and crank from the way a diesel makes its power.
The 90hp 1Z 1.9 TDI engine, which was is one of the predecessors of the PD TDI in the OP's car, were equipped with SMFs from the factory....the risk of catastrophic failure to crank or gearbox is too high. They use a DMF for a reason and that reason is to cushion the gearbox and crank from the way a diesel makes its power.
The 75hp 1.4 TDI (in effect a PD100 with a cylinder lopped off) also came with an SMF from the factory.
A DMF on a diesel lets the factory "get away" with lighter, cheaper components for the same durability. If it was _designed_ with a SMF then it'll be absolutely fine but that doesn't therefore follow that you can throw one on a car that was designed to have a DMF, makes a load more torque and power to start with, then tune it more and it'll be absolutely fine.
The PD75 is (figuratively and literally) 3/4 of a PD100. Same conrods, same pistons, same injectors, you get the idea. Yet, the three unbalanced 3 cylinder unit uses an SMF and doesn't rattle itself apart.
The use of a DMF in the VAG PD engines discussed above (and in this thread) is purely down to NVH considerations - nothing else.
I'm not saying an SMF is acceptable on all diesels that were equipped with DMFs, particularly if they are used as a critical vibration damper.
The blanket statement "I wouldn't go SMF on a diesel." does not apply to all diesels, including the one being discussed in this thread. HTH.
In the early days, lets say the first ten years of DMF's being around, people would fit SMF conversions because they MUCH cheaper than a DMF. Not so these days DMF's are a much more reasonable price.
if it helps - from my experience,
my car has 250,000 miles, PD130 golf.
Mapped to 175
clutch went within 3 days, put a £50 quid clutch back in it, DMF only has minor play.
20,000 miles later of hard driving and a bit of towing and she's doing well.. its not the clutch material that gives out just the older pressure plate that needs refreshing.
If i was being tighter than i already had i could have just got a pressure plate and kept the standard friction material
my car has 250,000 miles, PD130 golf.
Mapped to 175
clutch went within 3 days, put a £50 quid clutch back in it, DMF only has minor play.
20,000 miles later of hard driving and a bit of towing and she's doing well.. its not the clutch material that gives out just the older pressure plate that needs refreshing.
If i was being tighter than i already had i could have just got a pressure plate and kept the standard friction material
I ran a mk1 fabia vrs with the pd130 in it.
Removed a dmf on its way out. Its was noisey, pulsing through the clutch pedal, stiff
I replaced it with a valeo smf kit & luk concentric slave cylinder
It was silent in operation, no ill effects what so ever, I put that in at 110k miles. I sold the car on & know the next owner still currently north of 150k. Still running as good as it did from the factory.
The valeo kit isn't a light flywheel. It measured pretty much the same as the dmf that came out.. Very good bit of kit
Removed a dmf on its way out. Its was noisey, pulsing through the clutch pedal, stiff
I replaced it with a valeo smf kit & luk concentric slave cylinder
It was silent in operation, no ill effects what so ever, I put that in at 110k miles. I sold the car on & know the next owner still currently north of 150k. Still running as good as it did from the factory.
The valeo kit isn't a light flywheel. It measured pretty much the same as the dmf that came out.. Very good bit of kit
Ste372 said:
I ran a mk1 fabia vrs with the pd130 in it.
Removed a dmf on its way out. Its was noisey, pulsing through the clutch pedal, stiff
I replaced it with a valeo smf kit & luk concentric slave cylinder
It was silent in operation, no ill effects what so ever, I put that in at 110k miles. I sold the car on & know the next owner still currently north of 150k. Still running as good as it did from the factory.
The valeo kit isn't a light flywheel. It measured pretty much the same as the dmf that came out.. Very good bit of kit
That's good to hear - so you had no chatter at all on idle/foot off the clutch scenarios? That's the only reason i discount them as although i'm hardly in traffic I never sit with my foot on the clutch and the chatter would drive me nuts.Removed a dmf on its way out. Its was noisey, pulsing through the clutch pedal, stiff
I replaced it with a valeo smf kit & luk concentric slave cylinder
It was silent in operation, no ill effects what so ever, I put that in at 110k miles. I sold the car on & know the next owner still currently north of 150k. Still running as good as it did from the factory.
The valeo kit isn't a light flywheel. It measured pretty much the same as the dmf that came out.. Very good bit of kit
I'm going to be due a clutch change in the future as I get a rattle like a bag bolts have been dropped in the flywheel on start up but disappears as soon as the car is driven. Clutch is heavier but still smooth at the moment.
Gallons Per Mile said:
That's an interesting option! Can you even buy just a pressure plate on its own?!
Yes you can, however recently i got a full clutch set including slave brand new off ebay for £30 (diesel one but put it in my TT), just need to look for them, mine was listed as for a leon pd130 but same same 
_Mja_ said:
That's good to hear - so you had no chatter at all on idle/foot off the clutch scenarios? That's the only reason i discount them as although i'm hardly in traffic I never sit with my foot on the clutch and the chatter would drive me nuts.
I'm going to be due a clutch change in the future as I get a rattle like a bag bolts have been dropped in the flywheel on start up but disappears as soon as the car is driven. Clutch is heavier but still smooth at the moment.
No rattle/chatter what so over. It was quieter than the worn dmf that came out tbh I'm going to be due a clutch change in the future as I get a rattle like a bag bolts have been dropped in the flywheel on start up but disappears as soon as the car is driven. Clutch is heavier but still smooth at the moment.
my local facebay has a Golf GT TDI 150 for sale at moment. Its done 212K miles and advert says its had a full camshaft rebuilt. The money they are asking seems strong at £1250, but its the first such car i've seen for sale in months so I guess its a demand and supply issue. Not sure I would give £1250 for a 200K+ mile car of that age.....they do tempt me though I have to say, as a run around shed that can do long distances with ease.
ryan1684 said:
212k is an average of 11k a year for 19 years. So as long as its been well serviced it should be fine.
I think the rust will kill off most mk4s before the mechanicals give up. Especially with maintaining them being relatively cheap.
Yes you're right, the mechanicals should be fine. Its stuff like suspension that I think will be tired by that stage if it hasnt been refreshed and the cost of new bushes/shocks/ etc can add up.I think the rust will kill off most mk4s before the mechanicals give up. Especially with maintaining them being relatively cheap.
These Golfs are cheap arent they. I notice the Skoda Fabia VRS of the same vintage goes for more money, which is interesting seeing is how much it undercut the Golf when new!
1250 sounds about right to be honest. I'd reckon on selling mine for 1000 right now if I were going to put it up for sale. They're pretty bullet proof apart from the cam shaft, as we all know. The suspension will need some work on any car of that age so it's par for the course, really. Mines on 182k miles now, and I fully expect 250k to come around with just routine servicing. Brilliant every day cars, these.
Love a MK4, infact anything PD engined.
I’ve had :
3 Passats
2 Bora
3 MK4 Golfs
1 Touran
All 1.9tdi, such a good engine for the relative expense, the Passats are a little more of a faff to do a cambelt on but all things considered not horrific.
My current MK4 I bought after I had my MK7 Golf R keyed and attempted to be stolen one too many times I figured it was time to go back to a subtle sturdy daily.
I’ve had :
3 Passats
2 Bora
3 MK4 Golfs
1 Touran
All 1.9tdi, such a good engine for the relative expense, the Passats are a little more of a faff to do a cambelt on but all things considered not horrific.
My current MK4 I bought after I had my MK7 Golf R keyed and attempted to be stolen one too many times I figured it was time to go back to a subtle sturdy daily.
Great thread, there’s something refreshing about an old mk4. Many slate them and loads are absolute wrecks but it won’t be long until they are a rarity in good original condition
I’ve got a 3dr 150 too, on the same miles ironically, it’s my daily as running my C63 daily is not an option in winter.
Keep it and crack the 200k mark
Here’s mine, I owned it in 2012-13 then sold it for an E90 M3 but bought it back recently it’s a bit rough but I’m working on bringing it up to scratch again.
I’ve got a 3dr 150 too, on the same miles ironically, it’s my daily as running my C63 daily is not an option in winter.
Keep it and crack the 200k mark
Here’s mine, I owned it in 2012-13 then sold it for an E90 M3 but bought it back recently it’s a bit rough but I’m working on bringing it up to scratch again.
martin mrt said:
Great thread, there’s something refreshing about an old mk4. Many slate them and loads are absolute wrecks but it won’t be long until they are a rarity in good original condition
I’ve got a 3dr 150 too, on the same miles ironically, it’s my daily as running my C63 daily is not an option in winter.
Keep it and crack the 200k mark
Here’s mine, I owned it in 2012-13 then sold it for an E90 M3 but bought it back recently it’s a bit rough but I’m working on bringing it up to scratch again.
200k is only 18k away, so this time next year I'll be very close to it I’ve got a 3dr 150 too, on the same miles ironically, it’s my daily as running my C63 daily is not an option in winter.
Keep it and crack the 200k mark
Here’s mine, I owned it in 2012-13 then sold it for an E90 M3 but bought it back recently it’s a bit rough but I’m working on bringing it up to scratch again.
Yes, there don't seem to be quite as many around just recently as there were, maybe they're starting to tip over the edge of being scrapped rather than repaired due to age and mileage.
Funny you should say about an E90 M3, mines sitting on the drive awaiting me to rebuild the prop shaft. Not used it for a few weeks now and it's looking sorry for itself sitting idle.
Have you got a thread going for your car? It would be good to compare running costs and jobs you've done, etc
Gallons Per Mile said:
200k is only 18k away, so this time next year I'll be very close to it
Yes, there don't seem to be quite as many around just recently as there were, maybe they're starting to tip over the edge of being scrapped rather than repaired due to age and mileage.
Funny you should say about an E90 M3, mines sitting on the drive awaiting me to rebuild the prop shaft. Not used it for a few weeks now and it's looking sorry for itself sitting idle.
Have you got a thread going for your car? It would be good to compare running costs and jobs you've done, etc
I think your right, there’s certainly a few in scrap yards at the minute. Good for us as it’s a good source of parts. I actually bought a 115 at the weekend in the same colour and I’m going to swap some parts over from that. Started today with the tailgate and the grille but I’m hopefully going to take both to work at the weekend and swap the bits indoors. Too cold up here just now. Yes, there don't seem to be quite as many around just recently as there were, maybe they're starting to tip over the edge of being scrapped rather than repaired due to age and mileage.
Funny you should say about an E90 M3, mines sitting on the drive awaiting me to rebuild the prop shaft. Not used it for a few weeks now and it's looking sorry for itself sitting idle.
Have you got a thread going for your car? It would be good to compare running costs and jobs you've done, etc
My C63 is the same it’s barely moved this week.
Not yet no, but I will once I get some jobs done on it, believe it or not it’s getting some paint soon to sort out some scrapes and dents. Can’t be many 183k mk4s getting that these days.
How it looked first time around in 2012, the xenons have been removed so I intend to refit them too.
Edited by martin mrt on Thursday 4th February 19:46
Another month, another update. This time it's drive shafts. I've been talking about changing these for a while and I've finally got around to it! Three out of four CV boots were toast so buying a pair of shafts from JR seemed like the thing to do.
I also wanted to test out my latest acquisition:
Money well spent. It dealt with wheel nuts and hub nuts no problem at all, and I used it for everything else too - removing bottom ball joint bolts and drive shaft bolts. It saved me a lot of time and effort with a manual ratchet or bar, so I'm very happy!
When taking the wheel off the driver's side I noticed a load of free play on the hub - you could wobble the wheel back and forth which was slightly alarming. The free play was soon identified as a dead ball joint on my track rod end. I've already got a new pair on order...Oh, and noticed my power steering pump seems to be giving up while I was under there. Suspicious leakage on the bottom of the pump and fluid's been spun around the place by the pulley. Another unexpected job to sort out. I'll investigate it properly soon:
Back to the job at hand, here's where the long shaft used to be:
Old and new shafts compared. JR's shaft is slightly different to OEM but they're about the same weight and dimensions. You can see the state of the inner boot here, and the outer one is missing a clip for the millionth time:
That was quickly put back on the car, and the short shaft removed. The inner boot's been like this all the time I've had the car and I'm surprised it isn't leaking still. It survived a top speed run on the Autobahn too
Still, it needed replacing:
Everything went back together very well and I went for a test drive this morning as we needed some shopping. It all feels much tigher now - the old shafts were probably quite sloppy after all the miles:
We're on 183k now and the dash is reminding me we need to do another service soon. I've owned the car almost exactly three years so a little run down of costs seems appropriate:
I also wanted to test out my latest acquisition:
Money well spent. It dealt with wheel nuts and hub nuts no problem at all, and I used it for everything else too - removing bottom ball joint bolts and drive shaft bolts. It saved me a lot of time and effort with a manual ratchet or bar, so I'm very happy!
When taking the wheel off the driver's side I noticed a load of free play on the hub - you could wobble the wheel back and forth which was slightly alarming. The free play was soon identified as a dead ball joint on my track rod end. I've already got a new pair on order...Oh, and noticed my power steering pump seems to be giving up while I was under there. Suspicious leakage on the bottom of the pump and fluid's been spun around the place by the pulley. Another unexpected job to sort out. I'll investigate it properly soon:
Back to the job at hand, here's where the long shaft used to be:
Old and new shafts compared. JR's shaft is slightly different to OEM but they're about the same weight and dimensions. You can see the state of the inner boot here, and the outer one is missing a clip for the millionth time:
That was quickly put back on the car, and the short shaft removed. The inner boot's been like this all the time I've had the car and I'm surprised it isn't leaking still. It survived a top speed run on the Autobahn too
Still, it needed replacing:Everything went back together very well and I went for a test drive this morning as we needed some shopping. It all feels much tigher now - the old shafts were probably quite sloppy after all the miles:
We're on 183k now and the dash is reminding me we need to do another service soon. I've owned the car almost exactly three years so a little run down of costs seems appropriate:
- Total cost of buying car and maintenance so far: £3753.83
- Monthly equivalent cost of the above: £107.25
- Miles covered: 54,884
- Pence/mile: 6.84
- No of services in my ownership: 6
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