Alfa 159 1750 tbi (208000 miles)
Discussion
Piginapoke said:
Good work again. Enjoying this thread.
Thanks, I do try to make it interesting, but lets be honest, it's a diary about running a vectra in a little black dress.Paul S4 said:
Good work and enjoyable write up...I wish I had the knowledge and skills, and space to do that amount of work !
I fully understand that you would want to do all this ...it's because it's an Alfa !
I am on my second 156, I have spent way more than it will ever be worth, I have put more miles on this one ( 2005 150 JTDM with a remap to 180), over 90 K it is now at 155,000 and is my daily commuter car.
There is nothing else that I would rather drive which is the reason I have kept it for so long.
I agree with the statement about using a car: I left mine for about 2 months, parked outside, while I used my 'new' spare car, a Grande Punto 130 1.9 Mjet, and getting back into the Alfa caused me concern, as there were quite a few squeaks and noises that definitely were not there when I parked it up ! The brakes needed a day or 2 to get back to normal, there were noises of protest with the steering on parking etc. After a week of use all was back to normal, so I shall be wary of leaving it unused for too long.
PS just a thought about yours: one of the pics shows the fuel tank etc, and those tank straps look quite rusty. The reason I mention it is that I brimmed my tank on the 156 once, pulled away from the pump and discovered that one of the tank straps had broken. I had to drive extremely gently with about 70 litres of diesel resting on the remaining rusty strap until I could arrange for new Alfa ones to be fitted. I think they are reasonably easy to get at on a 156, maybe not on a 159 !
Don't you start. (see below) The tank straps are fine! I fully understand that you would want to do all this ...it's because it's an Alfa !
I am on my second 156, I have spent way more than it will ever be worth, I have put more miles on this one ( 2005 150 JTDM with a remap to 180), over 90 K it is now at 155,000 and is my daily commuter car.
There is nothing else that I would rather drive which is the reason I have kept it for so long.
I agree with the statement about using a car: I left mine for about 2 months, parked outside, while I used my 'new' spare car, a Grande Punto 130 1.9 Mjet, and getting back into the Alfa caused me concern, as there were quite a few squeaks and noises that definitely were not there when I parked it up ! The brakes needed a day or 2 to get back to normal, there were noises of protest with the steering on parking etc. After a week of use all was back to normal, so I shall be wary of leaving it unused for too long.
PS just a thought about yours: one of the pics shows the fuel tank etc, and those tank straps look quite rusty. The reason I mention it is that I brimmed my tank on the 156 once, pulled away from the pump and discovered that one of the tank straps had broken. I had to drive extremely gently with about 70 litres of diesel resting on the remaining rusty strap until I could arrange for new Alfa ones to be fitted. I think they are reasonably easy to get at on a 156, maybe not on a 159 !
Spinakerr said:
Good stuff - the 'subtly snapped springs' are a complete pain, well done getting it symmetrical and good for another few miles. Are you going to get it realigned? Or is there further suspension work to do before visiting one of the Laser Churches?
The rear tyres are practically worn out, new ones are in the loft. Going to monitor tyre wear and decide whether to spend the 70quid on a full alignment on that basis. Also, see below... No point getting it tracked ATMBlueHave said:
Bodywork doesn't look too bad for a 208k car.
Some sellers are just bluffers. I drove 100 mile round trip to see a MINT and IMMACULATE car a few weeks ago. Turned up and it was obvious the car hadn't been driven in months and had effectively taken route on his gravel driveway. He had lied about the mileage and condition.
The dense cobweb on the wing mirror was the last straw. The seller kept saying it was a future classic and collectors item. It was a CAT D lemon.
That's the paradox. There are plenty of low mileage dogs out there - I went to see a GT Q2 with 72k on it before the 159, with a serious interest. It was described as good and I think it was up for 2.5k, but it turned out to be a battered dog bodywork wise. It didn't have a straight panel, wheel was bent it wasn't tracking straight and it had a vibration from the front. I Offered 2k for it and was shown the door. After I'd bought the 159, I was amused to see the GT on ebay for £1995 about 2 weeks after looking at it.Some sellers are just bluffers. I drove 100 mile round trip to see a MINT and IMMACULATE car a few weeks ago. Turned up and it was obvious the car hadn't been driven in months and had effectively taken route on his gravel driveway. He had lied about the mileage and condition.
The dense cobweb on the wing mirror was the last straw. The seller kept saying it was a future classic and collectors item. It was a CAT D lemon.
Others I've seen have been cat C & D recently. Seems to be a growing trend for that kind of thing being falsely advertised on ebay as Autotrader checks and flags them now. And there's no mechanism to report an ad on ebay as being fraudulent for this reason.
The kind folk on the alfa forums have been at it again.
Apparently there are two types of upper arm that the parts suppliers generally aren't aware of or acknowledge (#Firstline, yes you!!!
)
This relates to the taper of the ball joint in the upper arm which differs relative to the suspension upright. Early 159's and Brera's were built with cast iron uprights but after being accused by the press and general public as being a bit porky, alfa put them on a diet and changed the uprights to cast alloy, resulting in a the need for a different ball join taper.
After being informed of this and it being suggested that the part i fitted wasn't right, I pulled it apart and checked the taper dimensions, which confirmed it's the wrong part;
Old arm;
IMG_8684 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_8682 by Chris, on Flickr
So that's 14mm at the base of the taper and 11mm at the end. Length of the taper being 16mm.
New arm (the one that's on the car);
IMG_8685 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_8686 by Chris, on Flickr
14mm at the base, 13mm at the tip with a 10mm taper length.
Both measurements roughly correlating with the 10:1 and 6:1 ratios suggested by alfa's workshop manual.
New one on ordered from first line, hoping it's the right one as they list 2 types.
Went to collect it today. Nope. Same. More time wasted.
Tried ordering a TRW arm from a different supplier, which should be here tomorrow (Friday).
Apparently there are two types of upper arm that the parts suppliers generally aren't aware of or acknowledge (#Firstline, yes you!!!
) This relates to the taper of the ball joint in the upper arm which differs relative to the suspension upright. Early 159's and Brera's were built with cast iron uprights but after being accused by the press and general public as being a bit porky, alfa put them on a diet and changed the uprights to cast alloy, resulting in a the need for a different ball join taper.
After being informed of this and it being suggested that the part i fitted wasn't right, I pulled it apart and checked the taper dimensions, which confirmed it's the wrong part;
Old arm;
IMG_8684 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_8682 by Chris, on FlickrSo that's 14mm at the base of the taper and 11mm at the end. Length of the taper being 16mm.
New arm (the one that's on the car);
IMG_8685 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_8686 by Chris, on Flickr14mm at the base, 13mm at the tip with a 10mm taper length.
Both measurements roughly correlating with the 10:1 and 6:1 ratios suggested by alfa's workshop manual.
New one on ordered from first line, hoping it's the right one as they list 2 types.
Went to collect it today. Nope. Same. More time wasted.
Tried ordering a TRW arm from a different supplier, which should be here tomorrow (Friday).
Edited by Zombie on Friday 29th June 01:20
Not satisfied with the outcome of the upper arm issue I also had a look at the HP feed to the turbo as well - thought I could smell burning oil yesterday, opened the bonnet and spotted a small plume escape from heat shields around it.
It's got the original part on it and looks like it's been leaking from the banjo bolt for some time;
IMG_8674 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_8673 by Chris, on Flickr
However, not that I've looked at it, the routing of the replacement pipe is different. Theres a solid section from the turbo side that feeds into a flexi section on the other end on both pipes but the first bit by the turbo is different;
IMG_8676 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_8677 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_8678 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_8679 by Chris, on Flickr
I suspect that the flow in the existing pipe is restricted by carbon deposits causing excessive pressure (hence the modified, insulated part) and the leak or the banjo seals have failed.
But as the routing of the pipe is different, there's questions in my mind if it's the right part. (FFS...)
- After the palaver that's unfolded with the upper arm, I disinclined to trust anything at the moment!!
It's got the original part on it and looks like it's been leaking from the banjo bolt for some time;
IMG_8674 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_8673 by Chris, on FlickrHowever, not that I've looked at it, the routing of the replacement pipe is different. Theres a solid section from the turbo side that feeds into a flexi section on the other end on both pipes but the first bit by the turbo is different;
IMG_8676 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_8677 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_8678 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_8679 by Chris, on FlickrI suspect that the flow in the existing pipe is restricted by carbon deposits causing excessive pressure (hence the modified, insulated part) and the leak or the banjo seals have failed.
But as the routing of the pipe is different, there's questions in my mind if it's the right part. (FFS...)
- After the palaver that's unfolded with the upper arm, I disinclined to trust anything at the moment!!
209,408miles.... Wednesday. Engine managment light had a party and limp home mode decided to join in.
And we don't have a workshop manual that covers the engine.
Seems to be a boost issue, we've not had much luck with theses, tricksey they are.
But having taken my head out out my hands, I thought I'd found the problem wednesday evening;
159 boost fault by Chris, on Flickr
Fitted some new hose today and, I'm hesitant to say as it's tempting fate, it seems to be fixed.
And we don't have a workshop manual that covers the engine.
Seems to be a boost issue, we've not had much luck with theses, tricksey they are.
But having taken my head out out my hands, I thought I'd found the problem wednesday evening;
159 boost fault by Chris, on FlickrFitted some new hose today and, I'm hesitant to say as it's tempting fate, it seems to be fixed.
Whilst sorting out the 159, We've had a right saga with my Mum's Brera 2.2sv (06, 50k, owned from new) recently.
It started with a trip to a specialist for timing chains. £1k later and on the way back my Dad noticed what he thought was a noise wheel bearing.
We investigated and found on of the rear springs was broken, same as mine and pretty much as posted above. Surmising that after being picked up on the lift, the spring could have moved relative to to broken part resulting in the noise.
We stripped it down, got new springs ordered and found they were completely wrong. (This was a Saturday) - new ones wouldn't arrive till Wednesday.
And then my Dad found that the dampers were corroded - small hole in the cup. New ones of them required then.
He put it all back together and.... No change the noise is still there. Possibly worse. I took it for a drive last night and noticed that in addition to the noise, the instruments were flickering and it was missing between 1.5k and 3k.
Having checked the battery voltage my dad thinks the lumpy power deliver and flickering instruments is down to alternator voltage, which is 12.8v under load. Seems to be an intermittent issue though, possibly temperature related.
As for the noise, it's a high frequency rumble that I can just about feel through the steering. Starts at around 40mph, peaks at 50 mph and disappears at 60 mph. It is road speed related and is not related to gear selection.
So we think its either offside wheel bearing or gearbox. Father has had the wheel off, taken the calliper off and can't find any movement or noise in the bearing, hence the question over the gearbox.
Moving forward to today, fixing the vacuum hose on the 159 was a side issue to the Brera which we had another look at.
We started by swapping the wheels off my 159 on to the Brera to confirm or rule them out as the cause;
IMG_7892 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_7893 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_7895 by Chris, on Flickr
I was not impressed with the way the 159 looked on the Brera's 17's...
IMG_7888 by Chris, on Flickr
Having swapped them and the noise remaining with the Brera, we're 100% sure it's not wheels.
Back to the other suspects it is then. Wheel bearing or gearbox.
As it's most evident at 50mph, it's not easy to be flinging it about left and right to see if the the whine changes - I got shouted at... So that's inconclusive.
We did jack both the 159 and the brera up to compare with each other. There is a notchiness on rotating the wheel in it's initial movement that's not present on the 159. There is a noise present in the Brera's gearbox when spinning the wheel by hand. But by this time the BT Engineer working on a fault in the road had his van running so I couldn't check it against the 159.
We also put a stethoscope on the gearbox and the offside bearing which we think is where the noise is going from. The bearing is quiet and the noise in the gearbox that could be normal, just amplified.
Again, inconclusive. Arse.
It started with a trip to a specialist for timing chains. £1k later and on the way back my Dad noticed what he thought was a noise wheel bearing.
We investigated and found on of the rear springs was broken, same as mine and pretty much as posted above. Surmising that after being picked up on the lift, the spring could have moved relative to to broken part resulting in the noise.
We stripped it down, got new springs ordered and found they were completely wrong. (This was a Saturday) - new ones wouldn't arrive till Wednesday.
And then my Dad found that the dampers were corroded - small hole in the cup. New ones of them required then.
He put it all back together and.... No change the noise is still there. Possibly worse. I took it for a drive last night and noticed that in addition to the noise, the instruments were flickering and it was missing between 1.5k and 3k.
Having checked the battery voltage my dad thinks the lumpy power deliver and flickering instruments is down to alternator voltage, which is 12.8v under load. Seems to be an intermittent issue though, possibly temperature related.
As for the noise, it's a high frequency rumble that I can just about feel through the steering. Starts at around 40mph, peaks at 50 mph and disappears at 60 mph. It is road speed related and is not related to gear selection.
So we think its either offside wheel bearing or gearbox. Father has had the wheel off, taken the calliper off and can't find any movement or noise in the bearing, hence the question over the gearbox.
Moving forward to today, fixing the vacuum hose on the 159 was a side issue to the Brera which we had another look at.
We started by swapping the wheels off my 159 on to the Brera to confirm or rule them out as the cause;
IMG_7892 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_7893 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_7895 by Chris, on FlickrI was not impressed with the way the 159 looked on the Brera's 17's...
IMG_7888 by Chris, on FlickrHaving swapped them and the noise remaining with the Brera, we're 100% sure it's not wheels.
Back to the other suspects it is then. Wheel bearing or gearbox.
As it's most evident at 50mph, it's not easy to be flinging it about left and right to see if the the whine changes - I got shouted at... So that's inconclusive.
We did jack both the 159 and the brera up to compare with each other. There is a notchiness on rotating the wheel in it's initial movement that's not present on the 159. There is a noise present in the Brera's gearbox when spinning the wheel by hand. But by this time the BT Engineer working on a fault in the road had his van running so I couldn't check it against the 159.
We also put a stethoscope on the gearbox and the offside bearing which we think is where the noise is going from. The bearing is quiet and the noise in the gearbox that could be normal, just amplified.
Again, inconclusive. Arse.
Edited by Zombie on Friday 29th June 01:40
Ste372 said:
Dont know if this will help, you may ready be aware of this method. Regards to the wheel bearing. Jack it up spin the wheel and grab a hold of the shock/spring see if you can feel any vibration/roughness being transmitted through the shock
I wasn't aware of that method specifically, but I used an electronic stethoscope on both and the hub carrier and couldn't hear anything.We changed the bearing on the Brera today (Saturday) to rule it out and thankfully it's cured it. My Dad also replaced the regulator in the Brera's alternator, which is buried under the inlet manifold and that's also fixed the flickering instruments lights and lumpy power delivery under 3k. Marvellous.
Whilst yesterday, Friday (29/06/18), We replaced the High Pressure oil feed pipe to the turbo on the 159.
The revised part from the Giulietta which is shielded was the right part and followed the same route. I'd previously identified the feed on one end correctly but it terminated at the turbo in a different and inaccessible location under the hard line i posted a pic of earlier.
IMG_7899 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_7905 by Chris, on Flickr
It wasn't a particularly easy task, being buried between the turbo, cat and manifold with a load of pipes in the way too.
IMG_7914 by Chris, on Flickr
We also replaced the upper arm with the right type;
IMG_7897 by Chris, on Flickr
Gave it a service;
IMG_7911 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_7910 by Chris, on Flickr
The sump plug gave us reason to stop and reconsider what we were doing though. It had RTV around it and it looked like it's been welded. Don't know why, suspect either a nut was attached to it (not rounded off) or maybe a spot weld to heat it up to remove it.
We carried on though and refitted it with some sealant just in case. Fortunately, it's not leaking but a new replacement will be used next time around...
IMG_7908 by Chris, on Flickr
Threads are Ok;
IMG_7918 by Chris, on Flickr
As is the plug by the looks of it;
IMG_7921 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_7922 by Chris, on Flickr
Access to the oil filter isn't great either, which may explain why the hex on the end of it was rounded off. New oil filter hat needed for next time as well. Something to do with the ape who did it up last time around maybe. Wouldn't mind but it's got the torque written on it, 25N.m!
Whilst yesterday, Friday (29/06/18), We replaced the High Pressure oil feed pipe to the turbo on the 159.
The revised part from the Giulietta which is shielded was the right part and followed the same route. I'd previously identified the feed on one end correctly but it terminated at the turbo in a different and inaccessible location under the hard line i posted a pic of earlier.
IMG_7899 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_7905 by Chris, on FlickrIt wasn't a particularly easy task, being buried between the turbo, cat and manifold with a load of pipes in the way too.
IMG_7914 by Chris, on FlickrWe also replaced the upper arm with the right type;
IMG_7897 by Chris, on FlickrGave it a service;
IMG_7911 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_7910 by Chris, on FlickrThe sump plug gave us reason to stop and reconsider what we were doing though. It had RTV around it and it looked like it's been welded. Don't know why, suspect either a nut was attached to it (not rounded off) or maybe a spot weld to heat it up to remove it.
We carried on though and refitted it with some sealant just in case. Fortunately, it's not leaking but a new replacement will be used next time around...
IMG_7908 by Chris, on FlickrThreads are Ok;
IMG_7918 by Chris, on FlickrAs is the plug by the looks of it;
IMG_7921 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_7922 by Chris, on FlickrAccess to the oil filter isn't great either, which may explain why the hex on the end of it was rounded off. New oil filter hat needed for next time as well. Something to do with the ape who did it up last time around maybe. Wouldn't mind but it's got the torque written on it, 25N.m!
Edited by Zombie on Saturday 30th June 23:29
Getting towards the end of the list of faults and niggles that need attending to now. I was going to give it a wash yesterday as it's covered in sap from the Oak tree over the road, but that soon escalated into replacing the broken parking sensor;
IMG_8110 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_8099 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_8101 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_8105 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_8108-2 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_8110 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_8099 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_8101 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_8105 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_8108-2 by Chris, on Flickrmilu said:
Looks great! Lots of effort from your side and useful info for us.
With that in mind, not looking to hijack,I have been looking at a 2.0 jtdm. It's high mileage also although not nearly as much as yours,but don't know what to do. It wouldn't be my main vehicle because I have a new van for everyday but having sold my weekend car...supposedly to save up lol,I was just fancying something cheap to tinker with.
It would also get me out of my van at the weekends.
Am I mad?
I was actually looking for a diesel 159 when I bought this. Or a 123D. Problem with the 123 is they're not much better as a car, right wheel drive but that's about it and they're crazy money in relative terms. With that in mind, not looking to hijack,I have been looking at a 2.0 jtdm. It's high mileage also although not nearly as much as yours,but don't know what to do. It wouldn't be my main vehicle because I have a new van for everyday but having sold my weekend car...supposedly to save up lol,I was just fancying something cheap to tinker with.
It would also get me out of my van at the weekends.
Am I mad?
I know the 2.4jtd is probably as quick as the 1750tbi and is better on fuel, although not by as much as you'd think. The 2.0jtd would be the better car in terms of mpg, but the thing that put me off is that it's slowly dawning on society (shock, horror) that diesels are dirty, nasty things that aren't very good for your health. And now they're cracking down on emissions gear tampering and making sure it's all working.
They're not easy to fix when they fail and can be expensive in terms of parts too. But this is a general principal rather than something unique to Alfas or the 159. As a car, it's well built and generally reliable.
milu said:
deposit paid....
Well done, good luck with it.Some invaluable tools are;
Registered copy of Multi ECU Scan;
http://www.multiecuscan.net
An ELM 327 cable;
http://www.multiecuscan.net/HowToUse.aspx
The switching cables (red green & yellow) to connect to some of the body computers;
Like these;
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_osacat=0&_o...
There is a workshop manual for 159s. If you search for "159 elearn" on flea-bay (make sure it is for a 159) then that will find it, but they (Fiat/Alfa) changed the format of elearn to an online resource a few years ago which doesn't appear to be available to anyone outside the dealer network.
The versions that are available don't cover the later engines like mine and the 2.0 diesel as far as I'm aware.
However, don't panic - there's still Autodata that covers stiff like timing belts and that kind of thing.
Owners Manual;
http://www.fiat-lancia.org.rs/Manuals/AlfaRomeo/15...
On line parts catalog (doesn't work all the time)
http://eper.jacekowski.org/navi?COMM_MODEL=159&...
Or download it here;
http://eper.jacekowski.org/iso/
milu said:
Cheers!
Should be collecting in morning. Needs a few bits..good buffing,bit of lacquer repair in one place. Think parking sensors are down,well I guess at least one.
Also needs a couple of tyres and possible wheel bearing but could be tyres.
Of course a super thorough clean is needed.
On a positive,it's straight,wheels good,air con cold! And every thing seemed to work. Plenty of receipts too plus only 2 owners.
I've actually written a couple of guides in the last week or so that cover well bearing and parking sensor replacement (I'm Chris155 on Alfa Owner)Should be collecting in morning. Needs a few bits..good buffing,bit of lacquer repair in one place. Think parking sensors are down,well I guess at least one.
Also needs a couple of tyres and possible wheel bearing but could be tyres.
Of course a super thorough clean is needed.
On a positive,it's straight,wheels good,air con cold! And every thing seemed to work. Plenty of receipts too plus only 2 owners.
https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-159-brera-and...
https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-159-brera-and...
Brakes...
I knew when I took it for a test drive that the brakes weren't special, they felt like the front discs were "warped" But they had bite and sufficient thermal capacity which is why I've not looked at them in detail till now.
Whilst the brakes look ok, clean face and decent pad material depth;
IMG_8216-2 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_8218-2 by Chris, on Flickr
Removing the retaining pins wasn't easy, I had to prise the outer pad out with a large screwdriver and the fact I couldn't get the inner pad to move at all suggested that, despite appearances, all was not well.
Unable to remove the inner pad, I pulled the disc out and found that the inner pad was properly stuck. A crowbar was required to release it.
IMG_8222-2 by Chris, on Flickr
But there's nothing obvious to report as a cause. GTA 330 callipers have stainless steel seats that the pads sit on, the alloy underneath corrodes, lifting the seats and jamming the pads.
Arguably the same thing has happened though. The callipers don't have the stainless seats, the pads sit on the calliper body. But the body has corroded (to a degree) and dust has built up around the brake pad seats causing it to jam.
IMG_8223 by Chris, on Flickr
Offside pads and discs;
IMG_8227-2 by Chris, on Flickr
Nearside disc
IMG_8229 by Chris, on Flickr
But based on the service receipts, the previous owner has been chasing brake issues for a while, and the issue I've described is pretty basic. I'd presume that anyone who's looked at in the past will have found jammed pads and cleaned up the pad seats will a wire brush, scotch pads, flat files as required and as we have...
New bits; Delphi discs, genuine pads, new pins and new spring plates;
IMG_8230 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_8232 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_8236 by Chris, on Flickr
The subsequent test drive confirmed our suspicions. Front brakes are fixed terms of the warped disc feeling. Rear brakes and the squealing I've been ignoring from the back when they're hot needs looking at. Front brake temps were 50deg c, even on both sides, rears; nearside, 40 deg c, offside ( the squeaky one), 75 deg.
FFS.
Anyway. Pollen filter. Should've replaced that with the engine oil as a routine, every service, item. I know this as a amateur mechanic and as a professional halfwit.
Access to the filter is simply gained by removing a single torx screw in the glove box and pulling an access panel clear;
IMG_8240-2 by Chris, on Flickr
You then remove the 5.5mm screw and lift up the spring loaded hatch to get at the filter. Unless you drop the screw...
IMG_8244 by Chris, on Flickr
Happily, I found the filter to have been replaced recently, as per the service schedule, I didn't get filthy black fingers from lightly handling it....
IMG_8253 by Chris, on Flickr
I've not had chance to try it, but I'm willing to bet the air flow (and the air con) through the car will be improved slightly....
IMG_8254 by Chris, on Flickr
I knew when I took it for a test drive that the brakes weren't special, they felt like the front discs were "warped" But they had bite and sufficient thermal capacity which is why I've not looked at them in detail till now.
Whilst the brakes look ok, clean face and decent pad material depth;
IMG_8216-2 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_8218-2 by Chris, on FlickrRemoving the retaining pins wasn't easy, I had to prise the outer pad out with a large screwdriver and the fact I couldn't get the inner pad to move at all suggested that, despite appearances, all was not well.
Unable to remove the inner pad, I pulled the disc out and found that the inner pad was properly stuck. A crowbar was required to release it.
IMG_8222-2 by Chris, on FlickrBut there's nothing obvious to report as a cause. GTA 330 callipers have stainless steel seats that the pads sit on, the alloy underneath corrodes, lifting the seats and jamming the pads.
Arguably the same thing has happened though. The callipers don't have the stainless seats, the pads sit on the calliper body. But the body has corroded (to a degree) and dust has built up around the brake pad seats causing it to jam.
IMG_8223 by Chris, on FlickrOffside pads and discs;
IMG_8227-2 by Chris, on FlickrNearside disc
IMG_8229 by Chris, on FlickrBut based on the service receipts, the previous owner has been chasing brake issues for a while, and the issue I've described is pretty basic. I'd presume that anyone who's looked at in the past will have found jammed pads and cleaned up the pad seats will a wire brush, scotch pads, flat files as required and as we have...
New bits; Delphi discs, genuine pads, new pins and new spring plates;
IMG_8230 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_8232 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_8236 by Chris, on FlickrThe subsequent test drive confirmed our suspicions. Front brakes are fixed terms of the warped disc feeling. Rear brakes and the squealing I've been ignoring from the back when they're hot needs looking at. Front brake temps were 50deg c, even on both sides, rears; nearside, 40 deg c, offside ( the squeaky one), 75 deg.
FFS.
Anyway. Pollen filter. Should've replaced that with the engine oil as a routine, every service, item. I know this as a amateur mechanic and as a professional halfwit.
Access to the filter is simply gained by removing a single torx screw in the glove box and pulling an access panel clear;
IMG_8240-2 by Chris, on FlickrYou then remove the 5.5mm screw and lift up the spring loaded hatch to get at the filter. Unless you drop the screw...
IMG_8244 by Chris, on FlickrHappily, I found the filter to have been replaced recently, as per the service schedule, I didn't get filthy black fingers from lightly handling it....
IMG_8253 by Chris, on FlickrI've not had chance to try it, but I'm willing to bet the air flow (and the air con) through the car will be improved slightly....
IMG_8254 by Chris, on FlickrFollowing on from yesterday and the the front brakes, we found last evening (Saturday) that one of the rear wheels (offside) was significantly hotter than the rest after a test drive.
Casual inspections in the past haven't revealed much;
- Decent pad depth and no obvious problems with the disc
IMG_8256 by Chris, on Flickr
I did suspect there might be an issue as the offside wheel would squeak after driving more than 15 miles or so and that would disappear if the breaks were applied. But, when we checked / replaced the rear springs, I checked that the wheels would rotate freely, as should be expected.
However, when we looked at it today (Sunday), the offside wheel would barely turn. Generally there are 3 causes for this; seized pads / calliper sliding pins or piston.
Fortunately on removing the calliper and finding that the outer pad was stuck in the hanger it was obvious what the problem was. Again, as per the front, it needed prying out with a big bar.
IMG_8258 by Chris, on Flickr
And as with the front brakes, the issue was caused by corrosion where the pad sits;
IMG_8257 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_8259 by Chris, on Flickr
I also pulled the disc off the car to make sure there were no other issues and didn't find anything, the wheel bearing seems to be OK and it doesn't look like anything was getting stupid hot as a result of the brakes binding.
IMG_8260 by Chris, on Flickr
Whilst the rear discs are worn, but not excessively so, it doesn't the disc and pads don't appear to have suffered in the same way the fronts had - front face looked fine but I felt it wise to check the back of it as well;
IMG_8261 by Chris, on Flickr
Whilst I was looking at that, my Dad had bunged the caliper hanger, shims and bolts in the parts washer for a cook;
IMG_8272 by Chris, on Flickr
And then cleaned the pad seats up;
IMG_8262 by Chris, on Flickr
refitted the shims
IMG_8263-2 by Chris, on Flickr
And then we put it back together. Fixed.
IMG_8265-2 by Chris, on Flickr
Well not really. I made the mistake of checking the nearside, just to be sure, and found that was binding too. Not anywhere near as badly, but it needed the same treatment;
IMG_8271 by Chris, on Flickr
Casual inspections in the past haven't revealed much;
- Decent pad depth and no obvious problems with the disc
IMG_8256 by Chris, on FlickrI did suspect there might be an issue as the offside wheel would squeak after driving more than 15 miles or so and that would disappear if the breaks were applied. But, when we checked / replaced the rear springs, I checked that the wheels would rotate freely, as should be expected.
However, when we looked at it today (Sunday), the offside wheel would barely turn. Generally there are 3 causes for this; seized pads / calliper sliding pins or piston.
Fortunately on removing the calliper and finding that the outer pad was stuck in the hanger it was obvious what the problem was. Again, as per the front, it needed prying out with a big bar.
IMG_8258 by Chris, on FlickrAnd as with the front brakes, the issue was caused by corrosion where the pad sits;
IMG_8257 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_8259 by Chris, on FlickrI also pulled the disc off the car to make sure there were no other issues and didn't find anything, the wheel bearing seems to be OK and it doesn't look like anything was getting stupid hot as a result of the brakes binding.
IMG_8260 by Chris, on FlickrWhilst the rear discs are worn, but not excessively so, it doesn't the disc and pads don't appear to have suffered in the same way the fronts had - front face looked fine but I felt it wise to check the back of it as well;
IMG_8261 by Chris, on FlickrWhilst I was looking at that, my Dad had bunged the caliper hanger, shims and bolts in the parts washer for a cook;
IMG_8272 by Chris, on FlickrAnd then cleaned the pad seats up;
IMG_8262 by Chris, on Flickrrefitted the shims
IMG_8263-2 by Chris, on FlickrAnd then we put it back together. Fixed.
IMG_8265-2 by Chris, on FlickrWell not really. I made the mistake of checking the nearside, just to be sure, and found that was binding too. Not anywhere near as badly, but it needed the same treatment;
IMG_8271 by Chris, on FlickrEdited by Zombie on Monday 9th July 13:04
Pommy said:
Zombie - how many hours and how much have you spent getting the car right?
No idea, most of what we (my Dad and I) have done has been in between other jobs.It would also depend on how you wish to define "getting it right", some of what we've done has been standard maintenance, other jobs have been sorting out minor issues that most people would ignore (intermittent parking sensor being an example, there's been a lot pf preventative maintenance and the remainder we knew about before I bought the car.
JakeT said:
I really like this thread. Good job on it so far. Definitely in a much better position now than when you bought it.
Nickbrapp said:
Still a utterly brilliant looking car and so much better than BMW can muster today. Glad to see someone’s keeping one in good nick, they are rare already
Thanks 
jumare said:
I've just fitted new front discs/pads to my 159, EBC OE spec. The barkes were working OK but it was a MOT advisory and there was a lip on the discs. Should have done it sooner as there is a big difference in performance.
Although the car is currently in the garage needing a new DPF to get emissions right for a MOT pass :-(
A lip on the discs? Sounds like they were looking for work.Although the car is currently in the garage needing a new DPF to get emissions right for a MOT pass :-(
DPF is one of the main reasons why I was happy to go for the tbi - I had 1.9 and 2.4 20v jtdm 156's before this and they were a right PITA when they went wrong. Admittedly, they didn't break often though.
Pooh said:
A very interesting thread and it’s great to see somebody doing such a great job of looking after a 159 but I am confused by the above comment 
The 159 is based on a floor pan that was co developed with Saab but never used by them, I do not believe it has very much in common with a Vectra other than a few components due to the Fiat/GM tie up that was happening at the time.
The suspension layout, for example is totally different.
I didn't mean for that comment to be taken seriously.The 159 is based on a floor pan that was co developed with Saab but never used by them, I do not believe it has very much in common with a Vectra other than a few components due to the Fiat/GM tie up that was happening at the time.
The suspension layout, for example is totally different.
Nice Maser BTW - My Dad had a 4200.
Edited by Zombie on Tuesday 10th July 00:32
I don't think I've driven it in the rain since I bought it till yesterday. Typically, in doing so, I found some more things in need of fixing.
The rain sensing wipers for a start. They start off OK then get faster and faster until they're going all out bat st crazy. But, being honest, I knew about that before hand and had dismissed it as not worth the bother of fixing it till it needs a new screen - it's caused by an issue with the gel around the sensor that bonds it to the screen. Apparently. I need to re-evaluate that choice I think.
The second issue is the rear wiper. Unexpectedly, it does actually work! Normally the shaft which the wiper rotates on corrodes in the body, the shaft effectively expands within it and jams solid. Instead the one on mine just won't park consistently in the right place. It just stops it's sweep wherever it feels like. Not having that!
IMG_8734 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_8735 by Chris, on Flickr
You wouldn't believe how may fixing held the boot lid trim on! And how many clips broke off. The broken bits are now rattling about in the cavity between in inner and outer skins of the boot lid. Mint. I even took the latch out to trying fish the bits out, but there's no chance of getting them out. Stupid design. They always break.
Drive mechanism removed and the cover plate taken off;
IMG_8743 by Chris, on Flickr
Turned out the wiper drive shaft was corroded and wouldn't turn freely in the housing, so it was about to break - The brown grease is a result offing mixed with iron oxide...
There's a track on the back of the drive cog, which was equally filthy and could be the cause of the parking problem;
IMG_8749 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_8747 by Chris, on Flickr
Bunged it all in the parts washer for a clean;
IMG_8760 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_8761 by Chris, on Flickr
And unfortunately, the rusty, grease wasn't the problem. One of the two brushes that contact with the sensor track is broken;
IMG_8756 by Chris, on Flickr
As a solution (new motor probably required) we bent the contact into the right place. This in itself took a bit of faffing, putting it back in the car, reconnecting it and finding it didn't work properly, but it now appears to be fixed. I'm hopeful that it should last a while as the rear wiper shouldn't get much use.
Whilst I was in the boot, I decided to have a look at the aerial. (no signal for the radio). After breaking nearly all the clips holing the roof trim on around the headlining, I was able to get at the nut holding the aerial down (just about).
IMG_8757 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_8758 by Chris, on Flickr
There's supposedly crosshead screws around the perimeter of the aerial - it comes apart and inside theres a PCB that corrodes causing signal issues. But there's no chance of getting that apart. I suppose a more determined effort might, but the wiring from the aerial doesn't have a connector in the roof. Apparently you have to take most of the boot apart to get at the it to remove the aerial from the car. Sod that. Given the level of corrosion, the PCB is probably toast anyway.
And no, I don't want to know how much a new aerial is!!!
I raided my Dad's parts bins for new clips and put it back together....
The rain sensing wipers for a start. They start off OK then get faster and faster until they're going all out bat s
t crazy. But, being honest, I knew about that before hand and had dismissed it as not worth the bother of fixing it till it needs a new screen - it's caused by an issue with the gel around the sensor that bonds it to the screen. Apparently. I need to re-evaluate that choice I think.The second issue is the rear wiper. Unexpectedly, it does actually work! Normally the shaft which the wiper rotates on corrodes in the body, the shaft effectively expands within it and jams solid. Instead the one on mine just won't park consistently in the right place. It just stops it's sweep wherever it feels like. Not having that!
IMG_8734 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_8735 by Chris, on FlickrYou wouldn't believe how may fixing held the boot lid trim on! And how many clips broke off. The broken bits are now rattling about in the cavity between in inner and outer skins of the boot lid. Mint. I even took the latch out to trying fish the bits out, but there's no chance of getting them out. Stupid design. They always break.
Drive mechanism removed and the cover plate taken off;
IMG_8743 by Chris, on FlickrTurned out the wiper drive shaft was corroded and wouldn't turn freely in the housing, so it was about to break - The brown grease is a result offing mixed with iron oxide...
There's a track on the back of the drive cog, which was equally filthy and could be the cause of the parking problem;
IMG_8749 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_8747 by Chris, on FlickrBunged it all in the parts washer for a clean;
IMG_8760 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_8761 by Chris, on FlickrAnd unfortunately, the rusty, grease wasn't the problem. One of the two brushes that contact with the sensor track is broken;
IMG_8756 by Chris, on FlickrAs a solution (new motor probably required) we bent the contact into the right place. This in itself took a bit of faffing, putting it back in the car, reconnecting it and finding it didn't work properly, but it now appears to be fixed. I'm hopeful that it should last a while as the rear wiper shouldn't get much use.
Whilst I was in the boot, I decided to have a look at the aerial. (no signal for the radio). After breaking nearly all the clips holing the roof trim on around the headlining, I was able to get at the nut holding the aerial down (just about).
IMG_8757 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_8758 by Chris, on FlickrThere's supposedly crosshead screws around the perimeter of the aerial - it comes apart and inside theres a PCB that corrodes causing signal issues. But there's no chance of getting that apart. I suppose a more determined effort might, but the wiring from the aerial doesn't have a connector in the roof. Apparently you have to take most of the boot apart to get at the it to remove the aerial from the car. Sod that. Given the level of corrosion, the PCB is probably toast anyway.
And no, I don't want to know how much a new aerial is!!!
I raided my Dad's parts bins for new clips and put it back together....
As a thank you for replacing the subframe on my Mum's Brera, my Dad bought me some new door mirror covers ;
IMG_8385 by Chris, on Flickrreplacing as they were
They needed replacing as they had become corroded;
IMG_8388 by Chris, on Flickr
Finally got round to fitting them a couple of weeks ago. The job was easy enough once I'd figured out you need to remove the mirror glass (it's just clipped in) to unlatch the cover;
IMG_8389 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_8390 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_8385 by Chris, on Flickrreplacing as they were They needed replacing as they had become corroded;
IMG_8388 by Chris, on FlickrFinally got round to fitting them a couple of weeks ago. The job was easy enough once I'd figured out you need to remove the mirror glass (it's just clipped in) to unlatch the cover;
IMG_8389 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_8390 by Chris, on FlickrGassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff