1986 Saab 900 Turbo - White
Discussion
Thanks for the kind words everyone - the car continues to be in daily use by my wife, and the jobs continue to ensure it is healthy.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2d9Zp48]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2d9Zp24]
We need to derust and restitch wheel arches and the underneath, unfortunately funds and time got away from us this year but ideally I'd like to get it sealed up by someone trustworthy in SW London. Recommendation welcome!
I also swapped out the dreadful oversprayed badge for one that had lost all its enamel and colour. It's a change.
I have a new boot latch, handle and light assembly but I want to get the engine running a bit better. Having timed it previously with some bits out of kilter I'm aiming to do that again and see where some of the distributor bits and sensors are. After these, the only thing left is a faulty valve somewhere or even the guts of the distributor needing a rebuild, both of which I don't think I can manage on my lonesome. We'll see.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2d9Zp48]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2d9Zp24]
We need to derust and restitch wheel arches and the underneath, unfortunately funds and time got away from us this year but ideally I'd like to get it sealed up by someone trustworthy in SW London. Recommendation welcome!
I also swapped out the dreadful oversprayed badge for one that had lost all its enamel and colour. It's a change.
I have a new boot latch, handle and light assembly but I want to get the engine running a bit better. Having timed it previously with some bits out of kilter I'm aiming to do that again and see where some of the distributor bits and sensors are. After these, the only thing left is a faulty valve somewhere or even the guts of the distributor needing a rebuild, both of which I don't think I can manage on my lonesome. We'll see.
Spinakerr said:
I'm aiming to do that again and see where some of the distributor bits and sensors are. After these, the only thing left is a faulty valve somewhere or even the guts of the distributor needing a rebuild, both of which I don't think I can manage on my lonesome. We'll see.
I've been enjoying the thread but have very little knowledge of Saab Turbos but I did have a lot of distributor issues with a 24V Vauxhall that I converted from fuel injection with engine management to carbs with an old school stand alone swing distributor (advance retard mechanism) and H&H Ignition Solutions were brilliant to deal with converted and restored one to as new.http://www.h-h-ignitionsolutions.co.uk/
Their web site is rubbish but I could not fault the service they provided it was on recommendation from a member on another forum which turned out to be a very good call.
The idle and performance issues have been solved! Spoiler - it was the timing and idle setup.
Running out of mental capacity for this issue and suspecting the timing as noted, I took the opportunity of a visit to my parents in Somerset to see Tony at A&D Motors, Yeovil, on the advice of a friend.
Given his 30 years of experience, he read through this thread and said to drop in - fortunately all my parts work and line replacement was ok, but upon checking the timing it was pronounced as 17 degrees.... AFTER top dead centre. Ah. It should be BEFORE. Gosh.
Scraped off the old dollops of tippex and we started from scratch - pushing the car in third, ensuring the vac line from the distributor was off and loosening the distributor nut.
A few movement clockwise on the dizzy with the timing light setup and all was well - everything settled into a much smoother idle, and the rpm rose to 1200.
Idle adjustment screws then reset in the right order - which I hadn't done previously - vertical stop screw is just for the inlet flat (previously cleaned), horizontal screw for the idle mixture.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/SwiESo]
Once calmed down to the factory 850rpm, stillness was abound. No stuttering, no hiccuping and the APC woodpecker valve even shut up for a few minutes. A revelation, and no new parts required!.
We took it out for a spin - what a difference! Full pressure turbo now at full chat, wheelspin in second in the damp conditions, and a very happy idle - yay! I was, and still am, grinning from ear to ear.
Sadly, Tony is packing up and selling after three decades of keeping Saabs on the road - he kindly showed us around the garages full of parts and pieces, with the highlight of course being his 96 cabriolet in tangerine.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/243WTrT]
Check out his previous green Sonnett!
20190209_105527
A absolute treasure trove but all good things must come to an end - and I'm sure the right homes will be found for all these goodies. As my mum (who had accompanied me for this little adventure, including pushing the car in third gear) said - "Never throw anything away. It'll be useful someday, for somebody."
Running out of mental capacity for this issue and suspecting the timing as noted, I took the opportunity of a visit to my parents in Somerset to see Tony at A&D Motors, Yeovil, on the advice of a friend.
Given his 30 years of experience, he read through this thread and said to drop in - fortunately all my parts work and line replacement was ok, but upon checking the timing it was pronounced as 17 degrees.... AFTER top dead centre. Ah. It should be BEFORE. Gosh.
Scraped off the old dollops of tippex and we started from scratch - pushing the car in third, ensuring the vac line from the distributor was off and loosening the distributor nut.
A few movement clockwise on the dizzy with the timing light setup and all was well - everything settled into a much smoother idle, and the rpm rose to 1200.
Idle adjustment screws then reset in the right order - which I hadn't done previously - vertical stop screw is just for the inlet flat (previously cleaned), horizontal screw for the idle mixture.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/SwiESo]
Once calmed down to the factory 850rpm, stillness was abound. No stuttering, no hiccuping and the APC woodpecker valve even shut up for a few minutes. A revelation, and no new parts required!.
We took it out for a spin - what a difference! Full pressure turbo now at full chat, wheelspin in second in the damp conditions, and a very happy idle - yay! I was, and still am, grinning from ear to ear.
Sadly, Tony is packing up and selling after three decades of keeping Saabs on the road - he kindly showed us around the garages full of parts and pieces, with the highlight of course being his 96 cabriolet in tangerine.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/243WTrT]
Check out his previous green Sonnett!
20190209_105527A absolute treasure trove but all good things must come to an end - and I'm sure the right homes will be found for all these goodies. As my mum (who had accompanied me for this little adventure, including pushing the car in third gear) said - "Never throw anything away. It'll be useful someday, for somebody."
MJK 24 said:
Thanks for any other update! Is there’s any 164 news to declare?!
Surely the fuel return line doesn’t run through the headlining?!
You're right it's the evaporation line that runs (and circumnavigates) the roof of the cabin. One of the old injectors looked blocked so hopefully any fuelling issues are now sorted.Surely the fuel return line doesn’t run through the headlining?!
The 164 confronts me each morning with a fierce expression, but as it had a intermittent complete battery drain issue it has not moved for 2 months. I needs an MOT end of Feb, and with the Saab and Rover now on the road, hale and hearty, it's time to dust off the black leather heated seats and fire up the cast iron twinspark. More to follow.
3k miles down since purchase, time for an oil change on the Saab, plus other bits and bobs.
Possibly one of the easiest cars to operate on, ever - no jacks, no stands, I didn't even have to get on my back as the drain plug is signposted from just nearside the nearside wheel. Quick run to the shops and back to get it warmed up, dipstick out, 13mm socket on the plug:
Four litres out, black but no sludge, proving its long record of regular changes to be truthful.
Filter it under the bonnet, this was on tighter than expected so I put a bag underneath and used my oil filter unscrewifier:
Standard part back on after a sealsmear of oil:
Job done. Few minutes in total. Phew!
Two things that fill me with dread under any bonnet - cable ties and gooey electrical tape. Part of the injector/sensor loom that runs over the engine was a particular eyesore, and could flap about unchecked.
So I ordered some 30mm rubber P clips, used some existing bolt holes and injector-securing bolts to lift it sensibly out of the way and much tidier.
Still plenty of gooey black tape to remove, but it's a start.
Next up, the grill is well past it's best, with gaffa tape and all sorts of repairs:
While I search for a 'god grill' for a flat front, which seems to be an impossibility, eBay threw up (I think literally) a mouldy example for a fiver.
With some jif and elbow grease it looked a tad better than our existing one, so off it came.
Looks like we need a new slam panel too...
That'll do for the moment - at least it had more retaining clips and fixings intact. Will transfer over the turbo badge and suchlike if a better one doesn't come up.
The miles keep ticking by, and with the full turbo working this car is a joy at present.
Next up...some rust repair...
Possibly one of the easiest cars to operate on, ever - no jacks, no stands, I didn't even have to get on my back as the drain plug is signposted from just nearside the nearside wheel. Quick run to the shops and back to get it warmed up, dipstick out, 13mm socket on the plug:
Four litres out, black but no sludge, proving its long record of regular changes to be truthful.
Filter it under the bonnet, this was on tighter than expected so I put a bag underneath and used my oil filter unscrewifier:
Standard part back on after a sealsmear of oil:
Job done. Few minutes in total. Phew!
Two things that fill me with dread under any bonnet - cable ties and gooey electrical tape. Part of the injector/sensor loom that runs over the engine was a particular eyesore, and could flap about unchecked.
So I ordered some 30mm rubber P clips, used some existing bolt holes and injector-securing bolts to lift it sensibly out of the way and much tidier.
Still plenty of gooey black tape to remove, but it's a start.
Next up, the grill is well past it's best, with gaffa tape and all sorts of repairs:
While I search for a 'god grill' for a flat front, which seems to be an impossibility, eBay threw up (I think literally) a mouldy example for a fiver.
With some jif and elbow grease it looked a tad better than our existing one, so off it came.
Looks like we need a new slam panel too...
That'll do for the moment - at least it had more retaining clips and fixings intact. Will transfer over the turbo badge and suchlike if a better one doesn't come up.
The miles keep ticking by, and with the full turbo working this car is a joy at present.
Next up...some rust repair...
You're doing a lovely job for tidying this old Saab! Very much enjoying the updates.
I must admit though every time I see that old cast log exhaust manifold I wonder if there's a nice tubular alternative? Although you might find yourself swapping turbos and all sorts of silliness so I guess it's best left well alone?
Ooh look what I found:
http://sasautocustoms.co.uk/saab/214-saab-classic-...
Hmmm...
I must admit though every time I see that old cast log exhaust manifold I wonder if there's a nice tubular alternative? Although you might find yourself swapping turbos and all sorts of silliness so I guess it's best left well alone?
Ooh look what I found:
http://sasautocustoms.co.uk/saab/214-saab-classic-...
Hmmm...
Spinakerr said:
We need to derust and restitch wheel arches and the underneath, unfortunately funds and time got away from us this year but ideally I'd like to get it sealed up by someone trustworthy in SW London. Recommendation welcome!
I can highly recommend County Coachworks in Kingston. Used them many times and they are superb.https://www.countycoachworks.co.uk/
shalmaneser said:
I know, I know - but unless a used one pops up for a tenth of this money I doubt I'll be getting it - there is a long list of items above manifolds at the present. Until it cracks, of course.Frybywire said:
I can highly recommend County Coachworks in Kingston. Used them many times and they are superb.
https://www.countycoachworks.co.uk/
Thanks - I gave them a call and they were not interested at all. Couldn't wait to get me off the line, so I'll continue searching - seems like a well trodden job for a Saab specialist given the number of repair panels available.https://www.countycoachworks.co.uk/
The MOT looms ominously on the horizon, so I have booked the 900 this week into an established specialist (NDS West London) to conduct a thorough pre-MOT and see what I've neglected this year the most.
In the mean time, some little jobs to ensure no truly silly failures, and some satisfying aesthetics.
Exhaust blows were identified, wire brushed and pasted shut. Significantly adjusted the note of the car, sadly, so that rear Carlsson stainless box needs to turn up!
Centre silencer and downpipe section needs to be replaced sharpish, but hopefully this will get it through the MOT.
Nothing elicits positive sentiment from an MOT tester like shiny trim, so I finally fitted the fantastic 3M stuff from Steve Lewis. Rear was missing, front original stuff has dissolved.
The new stuff is self adhesive and just required a gentle scrub of the valley with white spirit before application.
Ping! Glinty. I particularly like the two parallel chrome pieces on the bootlid and bumper now.
Front was original, with standard unexpectedly over-engineered spring hooks to secure it. Amazing.
Next up - new wiper blades. However the arms themselves were in disgraceful condition, so I selected a 13mm socket and took them off for a spruce up.
Rust, chips, rusty chips and chip rust:
I also dug the front headlight wiper arms out of the spares mountain and got down to some serious sanding.
Some tactical Bilt Hamber to treat the rust, then a good few layers of spraypaint. I used a stonechip as, well, they obviously take a beating for some reason, and also because the rest of the trim on the car is grey/matt and somewhat faded, so it matches a lot better than a glossy black.
That's better, with new Hella wipers to replace the dilapidated previous encumbents.
New blades for the headlights on order, though they're not wired up as far as I can tell.
I also picked up another flat front grill on that auction site for £3 and swapped it in, as it was less diseased and had most of its tabs and screw holes, unlike the last two. The main downside is zero chrome, but I would exercise my newfound highly technical spraying skills in future.
All other fluids and bulbs look good, though the rear offside brake pad retainer disintegrated upon prodding so I've ordered new pads and fitting kits all round for NDS to fit. Finger crossed.
Thanks for the replies, and I realise I left it one slightly underwhelming cliffhanger - MOT achievement unlocked!
Rear brake pads were in a truly miserable state from my inspection, so I had Nelson at NDS Saabs replace the whole lot with those I had in storage.
I didn't take any photos of the workshop as I was too busy talking his ear off and excitedly yabbering about the 900, but he and his family-run workshop are a true gem. I have booked him for more jobs I can't undertake at present with a skip in the driveway. Great to find such experience close by!
I think a huge part of the MOT pass was down to my work replacing the headlight wiper blades, so I'll just post that photo and nod sagely at my own achievement.
I look at that photo now and only see rust screws. Curses.
In better news, Nelson diagnosed what we had thought of as a loose gearbox mount and shifter as a front engine mount, and he casually mentioned he had one to hand. Booked in for next week.
While my exhaust repair held for the MOT the proper replacement is at hand - Saab NOS downpipe and front silencer sourced, stainless rear box to be picked up this weekend from Newbury and we should be free of leaks, for the moment. I'm still on the lookout for stainless rear section with twin tailpipes, but alas Steve Lewis doesn't have any in stock and they seem to evade capture for the time being.
More to follow shortly, on the hunt for headlining...
Rear brake pads were in a truly miserable state from my inspection, so I had Nelson at NDS Saabs replace the whole lot with those I had in storage.
I didn't take any photos of the workshop as I was too busy talking his ear off and excitedly yabbering about the 900, but he and his family-run workshop are a true gem. I have booked him for more jobs I can't undertake at present with a skip in the driveway. Great to find such experience close by!
I think a huge part of the MOT pass was down to my work replacing the headlight wiper blades, so I'll just post that photo and nod sagely at my own achievement.
I look at that photo now and only see rust screws. Curses.
In better news, Nelson diagnosed what we had thought of as a loose gearbox mount and shifter as a front engine mount, and he casually mentioned he had one to hand. Booked in for next week.
While my exhaust repair held for the MOT the proper replacement is at hand - Saab NOS downpipe and front silencer sourced, stainless rear box to be picked up this weekend from Newbury and we should be free of leaks, for the moment. I'm still on the lookout for stainless rear section with twin tailpipes, but alas Steve Lewis doesn't have any in stock and they seem to evade capture for the time being.
More to follow shortly, on the hunt for headlining...
Edited by Spinakerr on Thursday 13th June 22:33
Straff99 said:
"Next up, the grill is well past it's best, with gaffa tape and all sorts of repairs"
I'm sorry; this is a great thread but I will not let you bad mouth the miracle cure-all that is gaffa tape!!!
"Gaffer" please! Although it's more likely to be Duct/Duck which is rather different...I'm sorry; this is a great thread but I will not let you bad mouth the miracle cure-all that is gaffa tape!!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaffer_(filmmaking)
Ha! Yes you're right, it has magical properties. There was an Outside podcast recently on what it would take to make a rope out of the stuff to support humans.
Following the brakes and MOT experience I booked the 900 in for more work at NDS Saab in west London for two jobs that would be difficult on the driveway - front engine mount and downpipe & silencer replacement.
Good company:
Nelson and his family are old school experts, a truly daunting level of experience and knowledge comes to bear, and I have to stop myself from rattling of dozens of questions each time I see him now.
Amazingly, he managed to get hold of an original Saab downpipe section, NOS. According to him there are a few of these about as the non-cat models have a lower survival rate.
I had a cunning plan to replace the mid sections with a stainless Scorpion piece I picked up on eBay...
...but despite the seller's claims of it being a 'straight swap', we found the rear connector to the tailpipe section to be 4mm different from factory (front ok), so I'd either need a new custom rear section or some clever sleevage given the space. I opted to fit the new Saab section, store the mid box and refit everything else as it was sound. The rear can wait until I have a Carlsson twin-tailpipe stainless section, with the right diameter joiner, made for it down the line.
Fortunately all the fittings and studs were compliant with the change. The Saab has lost what we had come to know as its distinctive roar, so the further Carlsson addition will need to add a bit of noise back in.
The new engine mount was a revelation - so much easier to drive in traffic, a marked difference.
Other mounts were given a clean bill of health and Nelson adjusted the idle (again) and even found some original Saab steering liquid to top up the reservoir. The system leaks at a particular join so I think I'll have to drain it and flush it when that takes place in any case.
Nelson thinks the wastegate actuator needs adjustment or replacement, as now on full acceleration in 2nd there is fuel cut out operating, a safety feature for 'too much boost', and often a result of people messing with the wastegate.
One option is to bridge the cutout, but I think we want it back to factory, or just 'no cut out' spec, and perhaps a new item from Kinugawa would be worth trying out. Suggestions and experiences welcome!
The turbo had blown off one of the APC hoses to, so I refitted with a hose clip and will monitor carefully.
Next up, rust hunting and headlines. Yay.
Following the brakes and MOT experience I booked the 900 in for more work at NDS Saab in west London for two jobs that would be difficult on the driveway - front engine mount and downpipe & silencer replacement.
Good company:
Nelson and his family are old school experts, a truly daunting level of experience and knowledge comes to bear, and I have to stop myself from rattling of dozens of questions each time I see him now.
Amazingly, he managed to get hold of an original Saab downpipe section, NOS. According to him there are a few of these about as the non-cat models have a lower survival rate.
I had a cunning plan to replace the mid sections with a stainless Scorpion piece I picked up on eBay...
...but despite the seller's claims of it being a 'straight swap', we found the rear connector to the tailpipe section to be 4mm different from factory (front ok), so I'd either need a new custom rear section or some clever sleevage given the space. I opted to fit the new Saab section, store the mid box and refit everything else as it was sound. The rear can wait until I have a Carlsson twin-tailpipe stainless section, with the right diameter joiner, made for it down the line.
Fortunately all the fittings and studs were compliant with the change. The Saab has lost what we had come to know as its distinctive roar, so the further Carlsson addition will need to add a bit of noise back in.
The new engine mount was a revelation - so much easier to drive in traffic, a marked difference.
Other mounts were given a clean bill of health and Nelson adjusted the idle (again) and even found some original Saab steering liquid to top up the reservoir. The system leaks at a particular join so I think I'll have to drain it and flush it when that takes place in any case.
Nelson thinks the wastegate actuator needs adjustment or replacement, as now on full acceleration in 2nd there is fuel cut out operating, a safety feature for 'too much boost', and often a result of people messing with the wastegate.
One option is to bridge the cutout, but I think we want it back to factory, or just 'no cut out' spec, and perhaps a new item from Kinugawa would be worth trying out. Suggestions and experiences welcome!
The turbo had blown off one of the APC hoses to, so I refitted with a hose clip and will monitor carefully.
Next up, rust hunting and headlines. Yay.
Edited by Spinakerr on Saturday 22 June 16:12
Straff99 said:
Duck tape?
Isn't that illegal?
It's like fur coats - ok to purchase old stock, you just can't make it yourself anymore.Isn't that illegal?
Cambs_Stuart said:
Updates on this and the 164? You're spoiling us..
Ha! Just happy to have them both on the road and racking up the miles.The 900 had a particularly grotty boot handle, a product of a repair by the previous owner when a truck dented the rear hatch. While he had done a good job reshaping the panel and repainting, the handle was split in two and unhappily joined with JB weld, putty and hope. Not pretty.
I sourced a good replacement from a breakers, but this needed a good soak and removal of rusty bolts. Fortunately the oft-decrepit rubber seal was in good order.
..though this old Fokker wasn't impressed:
Taking the old item out was simple, out came the interior trim but the complicated arrangement and levers and screws were carefully photographed as I assume all this needs careful adjustment for central locking and exact movement ranges:
With the wires removed you can see evidence of the, er, enthusiastic dent repair:
Rusty bolts out, unit freed.
Old and new. As expected, all moving parts are over-engineered, tough and likely to have been tested by frozen trolls to be good for 1 million operations.
Old lock barrel was scabby, and missing some tabs that allow it be held in place.
I rubbed it down an doused it in some new paint, then refitted with a few O ring that gave it back a tight fit.
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2gjrZTq]
Then it was just a case of selecting the best of the bolts, bulbs and lenses and refitting with electrical paste, grease and all done. Another satisfying fix.
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