1986 Saab 900 Turbo - White
Discussion
The fuel smell definitely whiffs from the front of the car, but I couldn't resist taking out the rear trim to check the hoses around the filler neck. Carpet and plastic removes, everything is in top notch condition:
20180812_123005
I was diverted by the wonky mirror glass:
20180812_133640
This was prised off carefully and reattached with some suitably evil Araldite, with twigs to ensure it didnt slide down again while drying:
20180812_134716
Right, back to the business end of turbo - the endless tracing of idle and boost issues. The car has always had a slightly erratic idle, and I have been heavily encouraged to check the web of vacuum hoses. Even a small split can discombobulate the entire system.
Erm...
20180819_153123
Oh...
20180819_153137
And...
20180819_154632
Also starring 'completely not attached at all':
20180819_153447
Those that were attached? Some broke to the touch, an excellent sign, and others had fossilised into a size that made them loose. This is one hose of originally uniform size that I trimmed by an inch to fit more securely:
20180819_151900
I was left with slightly astonished the car was running as well as it has for the past few weeks, but also with the puzzle of how to reattach it all back into its precarious order. Hmm.
Step 1 - clear blockages with carb cleaner and pipecleaners:
20180819_151504
20180819_152428
Step 2 - Trim ends of splits, apply temporary tape and halve some lengths entirely to make up for broken sections:
20180819_162736
Just about achieved it too, with a spare T piece blanked off to bridge two bodged sections.
Step 3 - Clean the throttle butterfly of crud (most likely cause for the very occasional stall):
20180819_163721
No after pic as I didn't have enough hands.
Brilliantly, it started and drove, so I tiptoed away and order 5 metres of hose and a few valves following research on the Saab boards.
Occasionally a non-crank issue had presented itself, just a click front the starter solenoid but no cranks. Taking the key out, locking the car and redoing the start procedure always cured it, but I suspected a bad earth.
Lo and behold, all earthing points were covered in crud:
20180819_165447
The above turned out to be a screw into the chassis, which disintegrated as I removed it. Cursing, i scanned for another point at which to attach a proper bolt. Fortunately, the real earthing point, with threaded hole, was cleaned up, electrical contact grease applied and all tightened up. No issues so far but only two days in!
20180819_172015
20180819_172820
So, the 900 is back together but I have ordered quite a few engine bay bits, and I suspect it won't be my last order. Idle control, AIC and other components next up for checking...
2018-08-21_07-52-32
20180812_123005I was diverted by the wonky mirror glass:
20180812_133640This was prised off carefully and reattached with some suitably evil Araldite, with twigs to ensure it didnt slide down again while drying:
20180812_134716Right, back to the business end of turbo - the endless tracing of idle and boost issues. The car has always had a slightly erratic idle, and I have been heavily encouraged to check the web of vacuum hoses. Even a small split can discombobulate the entire system.
Erm...
20180819_153123Oh...
20180819_153137And...
20180819_154632Also starring 'completely not attached at all':
20180819_153447Those that were attached? Some broke to the touch, an excellent sign, and others had fossilised into a size that made them loose. This is one hose of originally uniform size that I trimmed by an inch to fit more securely:
20180819_151900I was left with slightly astonished the car was running as well as it has for the past few weeks, but also with the puzzle of how to reattach it all back into its precarious order. Hmm.
Step 1 - clear blockages with carb cleaner and pipecleaners:
20180819_15150420180819_152428Step 2 - Trim ends of splits, apply temporary tape and halve some lengths entirely to make up for broken sections:
20180819_162736Just about achieved it too, with a spare T piece blanked off to bridge two bodged sections.
Step 3 - Clean the throttle butterfly of crud (most likely cause for the very occasional stall):
20180819_163721No after pic as I didn't have enough hands.
Brilliantly, it started and drove, so I tiptoed away and order 5 metres of hose and a few valves following research on the Saab boards.
Occasionally a non-crank issue had presented itself, just a click front the starter solenoid but no cranks. Taking the key out, locking the car and redoing the start procedure always cured it, but I suspected a bad earth.
Lo and behold, all earthing points were covered in crud:
20180819_165447The above turned out to be a screw into the chassis, which disintegrated as I removed it. Cursing, i scanned for another point at which to attach a proper bolt. Fortunately, the real earthing point, with threaded hole, was cleaned up, electrical contact grease applied and all tightened up. No issues so far but only two days in!
20180819_17201520180819_172820So, the 900 is back together but I have ordered quite a few engine bay bits, and I suspect it won't be my last order. Idle control, AIC and other components next up for checking...
2018-08-21_07-52-32Hi
I'd buy a long length of silicon vac hose and replace the lot. As you say they are sensitive to having vacuum in the right place at the right time.
Not sure if it's just the photo, but the hose that goes off towards the pollen filter housing has join in the hose using what looks like a manifold T-piece, I hope the third connection is sealed off. I'm racking my brains to remember what that hose controls, is it the heater flaps or the cruise control?
Cheers
Mike
I'd buy a long length of silicon vac hose and replace the lot. As you say they are sensitive to having vacuum in the right place at the right time.
Not sure if it's just the photo, but the hose that goes off towards the pollen filter housing has join in the hose using what looks like a manifold T-piece, I hope the third connection is sealed off. I'm racking my brains to remember what that hose controls, is it the heater flaps or the cruise control?
Cheers
Mike
Cambs_Stuart said:
Good work! I think that earth pint is the first rusty part I've seen.
There's more to come on that story - preventative measures required, though generally it's OK.Mikeeb said:
Hi
I'd buy a long length of silicon vac hose and replace the lot. As you say they are sensitive to having vacuum in the right place at the right time.
Not sure if it's just the photo, but the hose that goes off towards the pollen filter housing has join in the hose using what looks like a manifold T-piece, I hope the third connection is sealed off. I'm racking my brains to remember what that hose controls, is it the heater flaps or the cruise control?
Cheers
Mike
Six metres of silicone hose just arrived from Saabits, along with a PCV valve and various clips and grommets I need. Joy guaranteed for the upcoming bank holiday. The long hose went to the charcoal can, but it crumbled when I touched it. I had to stitch some other lines together, and temporarily blank off the T piece with electrical tap to ensure it was connected. I'd buy a long length of silicon vac hose and replace the lot. As you say they are sensitive to having vacuum in the right place at the right time.
Not sure if it's just the photo, but the hose that goes off towards the pollen filter housing has join in the hose using what looks like a manifold T-piece, I hope the third connection is sealed off. I'm racking my brains to remember what that hose controls, is it the heater flaps or the cruise control?
Cheers
Mike
Unfortunately no cruise control on this car, that would have been the icing on the cake.
The AAC is also making a racket when revs are applied so this will be examined at the weekend too.
I remember my old boss getting one of the first 16 v turbo's to come in the country, it would be about 1984 as I had just bought my first house. He had done about 6k in it in the first six weeks that he had it, I then got a chance to go over to Europe in it with him and my forman to do some work when in Belgium we decided to see just how fast it would go, as we were getting up to quite a high speed a car pulled out in front of us to overtake a slower car and hadn't seen us, all three of us admitted later that we had shut our eyes and waited for the crash, luckily the car see us just in time and pulled in.
When we came back to England I asked my boss if I could have a drive and much to my surprise he said yes so I drove it back from the ferry to his house which was about 50 miles,
The things that I remember most about the drive is that it had a 5 speed gearbox and the brakes were the best that I have ever used.
I had a mk3 cortina 2000E at the time which I thought was the bee's knees but after driving his brand new Saab it never seemed quite the same.
When we came back to England I asked my boss if I could have a drive and much to my surprise he said yes so I drove it back from the ferry to his house which was about 50 miles,
The things that I remember most about the drive is that it had a 5 speed gearbox and the brakes were the best that I have ever used.
I had a mk3 cortina 2000E at the time which I thought was the bee's knees but after driving his brand new Saab it never seemed quite the same.
Paule2359 said:
The things that I remember most about the drive is that it had a 5 speed gearbox and the brakes were the best that I have ever used.
I had a mk3 cortina 2000E at the time which I thought was the bee's knees but after driving his brand new Saab it never seemed quite the same.
Saab to Cortina is a generation of motoring changes - and not the 'change' today of bluetooth connectivity and lane assist. Great stuff.I had a mk3 cortina 2000E at the time which I thought was the bee's knees but after driving his brand new Saab it never seemed quite the same.
As the light faltered yesterday I finally took a look at my box SaaBits:
20180825_181331Initial reports of six metres of 3mm silicone Samco being plenty have been unequivically quashed - I replaced 13 lengths yesterday and need quite a bit more, plus the APC lines which are 6.3mm. I'm drawing a diagram for the completed spiderweb, but some highlights crumbling rubber and shiny new lines below:
20180825_182844
20180825_183630
20180825_190701Also added a PCV into the crankcase breather:
20180825_192510
20180825_193118
20180825_200359Phew. Part deux to follow, but already the car sounds a tad better, and idles a bit higher so I have turned down the idle screw. A full timing and adjustment to follow once I'm sure everything is up to a respectable base.
I also removed an unsightly cable tie and gaffa tape cocktail on the APC:
20180825_200407Hmm. It seems I need a two pin grey Saab plug. ANyone got one listlessly rolling about at the bottom of toolbox?
20180825_200605Engine running, I just had enough time to replace the bulb in the headlight switch.
Grab and pull, gently:
20180812_202013Offer a prayer to the fragile plastic demons, and pull out the bulb holder:
20180812_202206This is unnecessarily over-engineered for bulb holder. It took me three attempts of carefully bending, tweaking and carefully reinserting the holder to get it right. I probably should have got an LED bulb, but at least it looks wonderful for the time being:
20180825_202622With all the failed vacuum lines redone, the engine was a little quieter (on the treble end of the spectrum). There was something else though... I got out and put a rag over the end of the exhaust. High pitched whine, louder hiss and no stall. Exhaust leak. Gah, that wasn't there when we test drove it!
Lovely to find this!
I had three 900T's back in the 80's - a pale blue T-reg 8-valve, then followed by a 16V ('83, I think). Finally (and the one I miss) a silver '84 16V aero S with red leather interior and a mahoosive rear spoiler.
A couple of expensive turbo failures rather put an end to the love affair - but it's great to see this one coming back to life,
I had three 900T's back in the 80's - a pale blue T-reg 8-valve, then followed by a 16V ('83, I think). Finally (and the one I miss) a silver '84 16V aero S with red leather interior and a mahoosive rear spoiler.
A couple of expensive turbo failures rather put an end to the love affair - but it's great to see this one coming back to life,
Pericoloso said:
Whilst I'm being a 
...79 T was also the first year for the 900.
I started at the dealer in July 79.
Mine were all slightly dodgy second-hand purchases ...79 T was also the first year for the 900.I started at the dealer in July 79.
My 'local' main dealer was in the middle of nowhere at Hurstbourne Tarrant, and one of the techs from there set up on his own nearby before IIRC eventually taking over the dealership!
gforceg said:
Thanks for keeping the updates coming.
It was nice of them to put a piece of lucky heather in the box with your fresh pipe.
I think that is lavender from a nearby bush my end, but I'll take all the luck I can get with the 900.It was nice of them to put a piece of lucky heather in the box with your fresh pipe.
Pericoloso said:
I probably have one of those 2 pin plugs.
I picked up all sorts of stuff being binned,like warranty looms they had paid but didn't want returned.
I'll take a look next week.
Thanks - another Saab fanatic has already sorted me out, but if you have looms and anything for a turbo I might have to send you a short list!I picked up all sorts of stuff being binned,like warranty looms they had paid but didn't want returned.
I'll take a look next week.
As always, great to hear the Saab memories - I may have missed these first time round but we'll ensure this one continues for a good few years.
As I was turning over the parts cache for a plug I found a NOS expansion tank cap in fetching Sin City yellow. The original has a slightly different design and a few marks from lost water, so I've swapped it over. It looks like the coolant system has a bit of slidge an not enough antifreeze, so a flush is in order.
20180826_103305
20180826_103452Another hour spare on a sunny Saturday allows time for Turbo fettling - the auxiliary air valve is another component in the complicated idle system, so I unbolted it and gave it a good dose of carb cleaner:
20180827_134348
Seems to be ok, and resistance measured at 50 Ohms when engine wasn't running should be about right:
20180827_135052
Next, the negative temperature coefficient sensor on top of the manifod, or NTC - on this Bosch system it should read around 350 Ohm warm and 3000 Ohm (ish) cold from the only two pins with a multimeter. It is and so is left in place.
20180830_070204
The ever-helpful Saab supplier Steve Lewis sent me a Saab electrical connect. I decided to retain the extra insulation and solidity of the wires within the plug, cut off the crumbly section I have and crimp on. Much neater:
20180901_131211
20180901_134453
The crackcase breather rubber was rock hard and broke into a many-splintered thing upon prodding:
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Luckily in the spares pile that came with the car there was a flexible, intact replacement. Phew.
20180901_135452
Although there are a few vacuum lines yet to replace, they are the ones without obvious splits, so I took the idle down to 900 using the main control bolt and the throttle stop screw (just to the left of the socket in this picture:
20180827_142529
"Are we there yet?" Well, no. There are no stalls but the idle occasionally stumbles and misses, just like my Alfa 164 when it had vacuum leaks, it smells overfueleryish and isn't as responsive on the throttle as I would have expected.
Next up, temporary patch of the exhaust least with delicious gunk, final vacuum line replacement, adjustment of the throttle position sensor to ensure it can close completely and we have some rather tasty quad pintle EV6 injectors inbound from the US of A. The current injectors are little noisy and the original single pintles.
20180827_134348Seems to be ok, and resistance measured at 50 Ohms when engine wasn't running should be about right:
20180827_135052Next, the negative temperature coefficient sensor on top of the manifod, or NTC - on this Bosch system it should read around 350 Ohm warm and 3000 Ohm (ish) cold from the only two pins with a multimeter. It is and so is left in place.
20180830_070204The ever-helpful Saab supplier Steve Lewis sent me a Saab electrical connect. I decided to retain the extra insulation and solidity of the wires within the plug, cut off the crumbly section I have and crimp on. Much neater:
20180901_13121120180901_134453The crackcase breather rubber was rock hard and broke into a many-splintered thing upon prodding:
20180901_13450220180901_134715Luckily in the spares pile that came with the car there was a flexible, intact replacement. Phew.
20180901_135452Although there are a few vacuum lines yet to replace, they are the ones without obvious splits, so I took the idle down to 900 using the main control bolt and the throttle stop screw (just to the left of the socket in this picture:
20180827_142529"Are we there yet?" Well, no. There are no stalls but the idle occasionally stumbles and misses, just like my Alfa 164 when it had vacuum leaks, it smells overfueleryish and isn't as responsive on the throttle as I would have expected.
Next up, temporary patch of the exhaust least with delicious gunk, final vacuum line replacement, adjustment of the throttle position sensor to ensure it can close completely and we have some rather tasty quad pintle EV6 injectors inbound from the US of A. The current injectors are little noisy and the original single pintles.
The Saab is motoring along nicely, recent commitments have kept us away from maintenance and cleaning duties, but this weekend we ticked off a few more items.
In our sweltering summer the Saab occasionally overheated in the dire traffic - the electric fan wasn't cutting in, so evidently something was awry. To its credit, it didnt cut out even with the needle on claret, and with the heater on full blast it was strangely manageable.
Quick check of the basics - fuse looked good, wiring to the fan looked good and wires on the sensor in good condition. I bridged the contacts at the radiator sensor and the fan kicked in - culprit found.
20181111_132518
20181111_131259
Coolant drain is required to get the sensor out, and I decided to get full flush done. The expansion tank looked averagely disastrous but a check of the service receipts noted blue and red coolant being added by different garages. Brilliant.
20181118_122006
As I was prodding hoses and thermostats at the front of the car, we took the bonnet off - wife armed with 12mm socket, me bracing for the weight. My goodness I was not prepared for it on my own but managed to regain my composure with only a dent to my pride. Much easier:
20181118_130014
There are many techniques of draining/flushing and cleaning a c900, but as I'm likely to replace the radiator, probably replace the slightly rattly fan and repaint the slam panel next year I just wanted to get the worst out and run it through the winter.
The drain plug is on the bottom of the offside, and as my battery had been relocated to the boot access here was much easier than the bottom radiator hose. Of course, this required a 24mm spanner. I do not have a 24mm spanner. I creased my brow and remembered exactly how heavy the bonnet was. I then gently drove to a nearby Toolfixbasestation and picked up a set of spanners. No one died.
20181118_124455
Forums advocate arranging a hose to direct the coolant spray away from paint and electronics. I had limited options, but found a small hose in the Saab spares box and a funnel to direct the flow correctly.
20181118_121730
20181118_125025
I then unbolted the IAC that sits on top of the thermostat housing (two 10mm bolts) and gently loosened the 13mm housing bolts. One was fine, but the other came with silvery chunks and filings... it had been epoxy/liquid metalled into the block. Darn. AT the least the thermostat was good quality example with a jiggle pin and operated correctly on the hob during a teabreak.
20181118_131039
20181118_131215
Luckily the old fan thermoswitch (29mm, for those of you playing metric bingo in this post) came out easily, and the new item from SaabBits went back in neatly, with a whisker of electrical compound on newly bent connectors to keep it tight.
20181118_132415
20181118_132658
Still, I removed the thermostat and replaced the housing carefully, and switched the heater to 'full hot', then flushed as much as I could with the hose from a completely random set of hose points. Then, all sealed up and a Holts Speedflush with water, run up to temperature.
The fan kicked in correctly and brought the temperature down. Excellent.
20181118_141609
20181118_141535
While the car cooled down enough for more flushing and cleaning, I replaced the final rubber vacuum hoses that I started in July. Much easier without the bonnet on! I didn't take any more photos but here's an artist's impression of the complete entanglement:
2018-11-18_07-35-17
One of the vacuum Ts was actually blocked completely, so that was expunged and cleaned with carb cleaner. If this is cause of the erratic idle...
20181118_142837
With the top hose off the thermostat I noticed a coolant elbow below it had a jubilee clip at a bad angle, and was generally substandard:
20181118_153647
I decided to pry it out - it had evidently been leaking, and the jubilee disintegrated.
2018-11-18_07-41-59
The elbow looked manky, with split ends, but I had no replacement so had a quick look at delivery times with a cup of tea. Hold on, what was that hose I fished out earlier for draining the coolant into the funnel? Aha! Looks like the previous owner had put in the spares pile; another job he was planning!
2018-11-18_07-43-29
Some fresh clips and it went back together neatly.
The thermostat housing I pondered - time was little and I didn't have the correct tap set for making a new thread for a new bolt. So, I slightly bodged it with a longer bolt and some Hylomar blue after putting the thermostat back in.
20181118_163351
I used Comma G48 coolant after a final flush. The tank is clear but already some deposits missed are visible. Darn it. To be addressed properly next spring.
Of course, the car also got a good bath and it looking fresh. Next up - some winter protection underneath, and injector experiments...
20181117_163852
In our sweltering summer the Saab occasionally overheated in the dire traffic - the electric fan wasn't cutting in, so evidently something was awry. To its credit, it didnt cut out even with the needle on claret, and with the heater on full blast it was strangely manageable.
Quick check of the basics - fuse looked good, wiring to the fan looked good and wires on the sensor in good condition. I bridged the contacts at the radiator sensor and the fan kicked in - culprit found.
20181111_13251820181111_131259Coolant drain is required to get the sensor out, and I decided to get full flush done. The expansion tank looked averagely disastrous but a check of the service receipts noted blue and red coolant being added by different garages. Brilliant.
20181118_122006As I was prodding hoses and thermostats at the front of the car, we took the bonnet off - wife armed with 12mm socket, me bracing for the weight. My goodness I was not prepared for it on my own but managed to regain my composure with only a dent to my pride. Much easier:
20181118_130014There are many techniques of draining/flushing and cleaning a c900, but as I'm likely to replace the radiator, probably replace the slightly rattly fan and repaint the slam panel next year I just wanted to get the worst out and run it through the winter.
The drain plug is on the bottom of the offside, and as my battery had been relocated to the boot access here was much easier than the bottom radiator hose. Of course, this required a 24mm spanner. I do not have a 24mm spanner. I creased my brow and remembered exactly how heavy the bonnet was. I then gently drove to a nearby Toolfixbasestation and picked up a set of spanners. No one died.
20181118_124455Forums advocate arranging a hose to direct the coolant spray away from paint and electronics. I had limited options, but found a small hose in the Saab spares box and a funnel to direct the flow correctly.
20181118_12173020181118_125025I then unbolted the IAC that sits on top of the thermostat housing (two 10mm bolts) and gently loosened the 13mm housing bolts. One was fine, but the other came with silvery chunks and filings... it had been epoxy/liquid metalled into the block. Darn. AT the least the thermostat was good quality example with a jiggle pin and operated correctly on the hob during a teabreak.
20181118_13103920181118_131215Luckily the old fan thermoswitch (29mm, for those of you playing metric bingo in this post) came out easily, and the new item from SaabBits went back in neatly, with a whisker of electrical compound on newly bent connectors to keep it tight.
20181118_13241520181118_132658Still, I removed the thermostat and replaced the housing carefully, and switched the heater to 'full hot', then flushed as much as I could with the hose from a completely random set of hose points. Then, all sealed up and a Holts Speedflush with water, run up to temperature.
The fan kicked in correctly and brought the temperature down. Excellent.
20181118_14160920181118_141535While the car cooled down enough for more flushing and cleaning, I replaced the final rubber vacuum hoses that I started in July. Much easier without the bonnet on! I didn't take any more photos but here's an artist's impression of the complete entanglement:
2018-11-18_07-35-17One of the vacuum Ts was actually blocked completely, so that was expunged and cleaned with carb cleaner. If this is cause of the erratic idle...
20181118_142837With the top hose off the thermostat I noticed a coolant elbow below it had a jubilee clip at a bad angle, and was generally substandard:
20181118_153647I decided to pry it out - it had evidently been leaking, and the jubilee disintegrated.
2018-11-18_07-41-59The elbow looked manky, with split ends, but I had no replacement so had a quick look at delivery times with a cup of tea. Hold on, what was that hose I fished out earlier for draining the coolant into the funnel? Aha! Looks like the previous owner had put in the spares pile; another job he was planning!
2018-11-18_07-43-29Some fresh clips and it went back together neatly.
The thermostat housing I pondered - time was little and I didn't have the correct tap set for making a new thread for a new bolt. So, I slightly bodged it with a longer bolt and some Hylomar blue after putting the thermostat back in.
20181118_163351I used Comma G48 coolant after a final flush. The tank is clear but already some deposits missed are visible. Darn it. To be addressed properly next spring.
Of course, the car also got a good bath and it looking fresh. Next up - some winter protection underneath, and injector experiments...
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