Unibody Triumph Spitfire 6 (and friends!)
Discussion
@Hitch Now that I like! Has a nice poetic ring to it 
@B'stard child and skatty Thanks guys! Hope I continue to entertain
@Spinakerr Not sure I've won just yet considering it hasn't turned a wheel in anger. I could get everything hooked up and throw a rod through the side of the block!
@e30m3Mark I know what you mean! Just scrolling through it to get to the latest comment seems to take a significant amount of time...
@hoppo4.2 Well isn't the world a small place? I remember reading about your swap somewhere when I was first deciding whether I should move my engine back in the chassis. I've still got those two pics in a little 'Spitfire Inspiration' folder (especially impressed with fitting the long M20 in with the original bonnet).
Where have you got up to? And @TonyRPH is right, we need another thread
Lunchtime at work, which means more Wales Trip!
We left our action on day one with an ominous puddle underneath the Citroen, and a plan to sort it devised over a night’s drinking.
Our cunning plan? Shall we see how much fluid it leaks in a day?
So, off we head into the Welsh countryside!
Wales truly is a stunning place, with some truly spectacular roads. Narrow and technical, but in a lot of places with good open sightlines off into the distance so barring rogue sheep you’re pretty free to enjoy them as far as your bravery will take you.
Now, our plan with the Citroen wasn’t as harebrained as it initially seems. Some clever bods at Citroen built in some safety features into the hydraulic system in the event of leaks. By taking feeds from different points in the reservoir, in the event of a leak the power steering goes first. Then the suspension drops. Then, preserved til last, is the braking system. We’d already worked out it wasn’t a brake leak as that’d be jetting the stuff out almost as fast as it could pump it. Not bad for a bunch of drunkards
...didn’t expect our Dutch friend to be catching 4-wheel air mind you, which he definitely did
But wait. Back up a minute. What’s that tiny red speck in the distance?
Can you zoom in on that?
Closer...
Enhance...
Oh look, it’s an overheating Fiat.
Turns out, my 2am coolant bleeding session wasn’t up to belting around the Brecon Beacons. Who would have guessed?
Still, hell of a scenic place to break down.
Unfortunately, as I shut it down it decided to belch the majority of its coolant over said scenic beauty. I had prepared for little top-ups, but nowhere near enough for this.
But luckily, this scenery’s not just for looking at...
Spurred on by the 'no overnight parking' sign, we found a little stream that was pretty clean and after shuttling back and forth a litre at a time managed to refill the coolant system. Spent a lot of effort cleaning up the spilt coolant as well (seems ungrateful to poison the water source that’s just saved your bacon). After bleeding more thoroughly this time, we were on our way again!
Our destination after all this, Halfords in Aberystwyth (spelt from memory, lets see if it’s right...), where we could pick up some LHM for the Citroen and meet up with the rest of the gang. Only, after the delay setting off from Citroen research and the delay with the coolant, we were now running significantly behind schedule.
Still, we weren’t alone when we arrived...
Turns out some of the roads in Wales aren’t exactly kind on low-slung sports cars. Exhausts specifically.
Bit of Halfords’ finest exhaust repair, spot of lunch and the rearguard were back on the way! Again, not many photos. I think we were just happy to be driving
Thankfully the trip back went smoothly, although we’d discovered by now that the BX was going through about 1 litre of LHM a day. At £13 a bottle, we may actually have to fix this.
Later that evening we reunited with the group at a very pretty pub with a very pretty barmaid and hatched a new cunning plan for the Citroen...
@B'stard child and skatty Thanks guys! Hope I continue to entertain
@Spinakerr Not sure I've won just yet considering it hasn't turned a wheel in anger. I could get everything hooked up and throw a rod through the side of the block!
@e30m3Mark I know what you mean! Just scrolling through it to get to the latest comment seems to take a significant amount of time...
@hoppo4.2 Well isn't the world a small place? I remember reading about your swap somewhere when I was first deciding whether I should move my engine back in the chassis. I've still got those two pics in a little 'Spitfire Inspiration' folder (especially impressed with fitting the long M20 in with the original bonnet).
Where have you got up to? And @TonyRPH is right, we need another thread
Lunchtime at work, which means more Wales Trip!
We left our action on day one with an ominous puddle underneath the Citroen, and a plan to sort it devised over a night’s drinking.
Our cunning plan? Shall we see how much fluid it leaks in a day?
So, off we head into the Welsh countryside!
Wales truly is a stunning place, with some truly spectacular roads. Narrow and technical, but in a lot of places with good open sightlines off into the distance so barring rogue sheep you’re pretty free to enjoy them as far as your bravery will take you.
Now, our plan with the Citroen wasn’t as harebrained as it initially seems. Some clever bods at Citroen built in some safety features into the hydraulic system in the event of leaks. By taking feeds from different points in the reservoir, in the event of a leak the power steering goes first. Then the suspension drops. Then, preserved til last, is the braking system. We’d already worked out it wasn’t a brake leak as that’d be jetting the stuff out almost as fast as it could pump it. Not bad for a bunch of drunkards
...didn’t expect our Dutch friend to be catching 4-wheel air mind you, which he definitely did
But wait. Back up a minute. What’s that tiny red speck in the distance?
Can you zoom in on that?
Closer...
Enhance...
Oh look, it’s an overheating Fiat.
Turns out, my 2am coolant bleeding session wasn’t up to belting around the Brecon Beacons. Who would have guessed?
Still, hell of a scenic place to break down.
Unfortunately, as I shut it down it decided to belch the majority of its coolant over said scenic beauty. I had prepared for little top-ups, but nowhere near enough for this.
But luckily, this scenery’s not just for looking at...
Spurred on by the 'no overnight parking' sign, we found a little stream that was pretty clean and after shuttling back and forth a litre at a time managed to refill the coolant system. Spent a lot of effort cleaning up the spilt coolant as well (seems ungrateful to poison the water source that’s just saved your bacon). After bleeding more thoroughly this time, we were on our way again!
Our destination after all this, Halfords in Aberystwyth (spelt from memory, lets see if it’s right...), where we could pick up some LHM for the Citroen and meet up with the rest of the gang. Only, after the delay setting off from Citroen research and the delay with the coolant, we were now running significantly behind schedule.
Still, we weren’t alone when we arrived...
Turns out some of the roads in Wales aren’t exactly kind on low-slung sports cars. Exhausts specifically.
Bit of Halfords’ finest exhaust repair, spot of lunch and the rearguard were back on the way! Again, not many photos. I think we were just happy to be driving
Thankfully the trip back went smoothly, although we’d discovered by now that the BX was going through about 1 litre of LHM a day. At £13 a bottle, we may actually have to fix this.
Later that evening we reunited with the group at a very pretty pub with a very pretty barmaid and hatched a new cunning plan for the Citroen...
It's a very long story with the spit.
I bought it when I was about 14. It was a dad and lad project. We replaced everything every panel, nut bolt and bush.
It was up and running by my 17th birthday but I could not get anyone to insure me. So there it sat for a few years. By this point I'd had a few different moters and it was going to be far too slow in standard form. So as you do when your young I set about shoehorning in the biggest motor I could.
It's up and running but to the point that it's really usable. Then lost interest again had a family,discovered I could insure tvr's and m3's etc and that's how it's sat at the back of my old man's garage.
Strangely I was talking with him this weekend and he mentioned we should do something with it or sell it.
I'm in two minds if I do finish it. Stick to the plan with the 6 pot which im not sure will ever be really usable.
Or pull it out and redo it with something like an mx5 engine maybe with a turbo or charger.
I bought it when I was about 14. It was a dad and lad project. We replaced everything every panel, nut bolt and bush.
It was up and running by my 17th birthday but I could not get anyone to insure me. So there it sat for a few years. By this point I'd had a few different moters and it was going to be far too slow in standard form. So as you do when your young I set about shoehorning in the biggest motor I could.
It's up and running but to the point that it's really usable. Then lost interest again had a family,discovered I could insure tvr's and m3's etc and that's how it's sat at the back of my old man's garage.
Strangely I was talking with him this weekend and he mentioned we should do something with it or sell it.
I'm in two minds if I do finish it. Stick to the plan with the 6 pot which im not sure will ever be really usable.
Or pull it out and redo it with something like an mx5 engine maybe with a turbo or charger.
Yeah I kinda know what you mean. When I first started my Spit I calculated the power-to-weight to be just a smidge more than an E46 M3. At the time that was relatively near the sharper end of affordable performance which was neat you had your E90 M3s that could out drag it, but not by as much as you'd think.
Fast forward to now and the E46 is looking decidedly mid-field next to 500bhp hatches and super-saloons (even if they are fantastically porky).
Still, we got a proper lesson in just what sod-all weight can do at a Brands Hatch trackday last week. Everyone knows Caterhams are monstrously quick, but they've usually got some pretty immense power-to-weight ratios themselves so it's expected.
However, we went in my MG F, my mate's 300bhp turbo MX5 (torque limited to 200lb-ft until it gets rods, but still a bit of a missile), and another guy's Exocet (about 700-750kg, but bone-stock 1.8 MX5 drivetrain). My F on T1Rs, but the 5 and Exocet both on the same grippy Nankangs.
The MX-5 was predictably quicker than the F, but what really surprised us was how neck-and-neck the 5 and the Exocet were. Honestly, the 300bhp MX-5 was hitting 130mph down the back straight and the 130-ish bhp Exocet could barely crack 90...and yet they were absolutely inseparable regardless of who was leading.
Same tyres. Same suspension. One with less than half the horsepower, but ~400kg less weight.
That's got me really excited about the Spitfire's potential capabilities. With ~750kg and 170-200bhp (and 200lb-ft of torque) it should be pretty close to the Exocet...except with 40bhp/88lb-ft more. Certainly enough to spook some much more powerful machines at any rate
If all else fails, there's always the Saab B204 which I'm convinced shared a bolt pattern with a 4-cylinder LT77...
Here's some pics from the trackday as proof
MG F
5
And the Exocet in its typical position, loitering behind the 5 waiting for it to finish getting through the corner.
Have you done anything to the rear end of yours? That'd be the only thing I was thinking if you were looking at 5-turbo engines. They need a fair bit of work back there to get them up to snuff.
you had your E90 M3s that could out drag it, but not by as much as you'd think.Fast forward to now and the E46 is looking decidedly mid-field next to 500bhp hatches and super-saloons (even if they are fantastically porky).
Still, we got a proper lesson in just what sod-all weight can do at a Brands Hatch trackday last week. Everyone knows Caterhams are monstrously quick, but they've usually got some pretty immense power-to-weight ratios themselves so it's expected.
However, we went in my MG F, my mate's 300bhp turbo MX5 (torque limited to 200lb-ft until it gets rods, but still a bit of a missile), and another guy's Exocet (about 700-750kg, but bone-stock 1.8 MX5 drivetrain). My F on T1Rs, but the 5 and Exocet both on the same grippy Nankangs.
The MX-5 was predictably quicker than the F, but what really surprised us was how neck-and-neck the 5 and the Exocet were. Honestly, the 300bhp MX-5 was hitting 130mph down the back straight and the 130-ish bhp Exocet could barely crack 90...and yet they were absolutely inseparable regardless of who was leading.
Same tyres. Same suspension. One with less than half the horsepower, but ~400kg less weight.
That's got me really excited about the Spitfire's potential capabilities. With ~750kg and 170-200bhp (and 200lb-ft of torque) it should be pretty close to the Exocet...except with 40bhp/88lb-ft more. Certainly enough to spook some much more powerful machines at any rate
If all else fails, there's always the Saab B204 which I'm convinced shared a bolt pattern with a 4-cylinder LT77...
Here's some pics from the trackday as proof
MG F
5
And the Exocet in its typical position, loitering behind the 5 waiting for it to finish getting through the corner.
Have you done anything to the rear end of yours? That'd be the only thing I was thinking if you were looking at 5-turbo engines. They need a fair bit of work back there to get them up to snuff.
Yeah I can imagine a 3.89 diff as it's probably got making it a bit short geared. You can get 3.63s (the strongest standard diff) or 3.27s if you want a bit more legs, but the 3.27s are known to be a bit weak if/when you start pushing power. Not sure what your M20 is making, but they get a bit marginal behind 141bhp TR6 lumps.
The most commonly done diff upgrade is a Subaru R160 (with subaru inner CVs, Metro R100 shafts and outer CVs which fit into the Subaru splines, rotoflex vertical links machined to take an MG F wheel bearing and MGF hubs). That's the plan for mine after I've got it up and running, but for now I've got all the bits for a Quaifed standard rear end so I'll stick with that for the moment.
It is a significant investment of time and money though, but with a 3.54 ratio and a bulletproof rear end you should be sorted for whatever you want to do with it
The most commonly done diff upgrade is a Subaru R160 (with subaru inner CVs, Metro R100 shafts and outer CVs which fit into the Subaru splines, rotoflex vertical links machined to take an MG F wheel bearing and MGF hubs). That's the plan for mine after I've got it up and running, but for now I've got all the bits for a Quaifed standard rear end so I'll stick with that for the moment.
It is a significant investment of time and money though, but with a 3.54 ratio and a bulletproof rear end you should be sorted for whatever you want to do with it
Will probably work for quite a while if you refrain from hard launches and one-wheel-peels still, it's nice to have a rock-solid drivetrain for that sort of hooligan stuff
Speaking of idiotic behaviour, here's the next part of my Welsh road trip. Caution though, it's not for the faint of heart :S
We left day 2 in much the same place as we left day 1: a leaking Citroen and a plan formulated over drinks on how to fix it (with the minor detour of an overheating Fiat).
Now, while our Dutch friend is clearly bonkers for catching air in the Citroen, he’s paradoxically also rather sensible. During the previous day he’d been scoping out garages near to where we were staying and we arranged some time on a lift to have a poke around.
Genuine quote from the mechanics: What is this, work on your own car day?
Luckily, the very helpful mechanic chappy managed to spot what it was. Or, at least, he discovered a random little tube coming from the strut that wasn’t connected to anything. Unfortunately, it didn’t look like there was much around for it to connect to...
Hum. What to do?
Oh wait. Didn’t we see a BX in the hedge just outside the garage?
Lets have a look at that and see if we can find where that hose goes.
Turns out that the misc hose on mine was one of the return lines from the struts which went to an MIA t-piece connecting both struts to a line running back to the reservoir.
Luckily, this was one of the things I had foreseen and had brought a box of varied t-pieces with me. A little jiggery-pokery with some scrap diesel return line the mechanic had lying around and we had a fixed Citroen!
So off we go again! Late, as usual, but on our way with a fixed Citroen
Today was the day when we were leaving the Brecon Beacons and travelling up to the second cottage in Snowdonia. Still a brilliant drive set out for us by one of the guys. I’d been endlessly impressed by how well the little Fiat performed on these twisty Welsh roads next to the much more powerful MX5, the BRZ which handled like it was on rails, and the MGF which wasn’t far behind the first two.
Power: neck and neck with the MGF
Handling and roadholding: keeps up fine with the 5 and F, and only just behind the BRZ which stuck to the road like it was on rails...or had a bonkers driver...or both)
Brakes: Not quite so good.
Yeah. Definitely not quite so good.
Moron.
What happened here is the BRZ, MX5, MGF and Fiat had all been sticking pretty close to each other down this brilliant winding country road. Up ahead there lay a really nasty little section. Three sweepers followed by a little crest then a sharp 90-degree left with some water runoff from the field it skirted.
The BRZ met this 90-degree corner, sharply put on its generously sized anchors, heaved left and made it round.
The MX5 met this 90-degree corner, sharply put on its big 4-pot brakes, heaved left and made it round. Just.
The MGF met this 90-degree corner, sharply put on its big 4-pot brakes, heaved left and made it round. Just.
The Fiat met this 90-degree corner, sharply put on its upspecced but not brilliant brakes, didn’t slow down enough before it hit the water runoff, locked the fronts and plowed straight ahead through the hedge and fence into a field the other side.
Sigh.
Moron
Negotiated it out of the field, paid the rather irritated farmer not to call the police (I gathered it wasn’t his first rodeo), mended the fence I broke with some rope we had, and limped it to the nearest town for a tea to calm the nerves and to assess the damage.
I reckon the left hand side took down one of the fence posts as the tie rod was bent fully 45-degrees, meaning I had some mad toe out. Like ‘right wheel pointing straight, left wheel halfway through its arc’ (see below pic). Not much we can do about that at the moment. Radiator pushed back 4" or so, but seemed to be intact. However, one of the coolant hoses under the car had been split and was leaking a fair amount of coolant.
Ok, so first thing’s first let’s have a go at fixing the coolant leak.
The leak itself was actually pretty straight forwards. Loosen the clamps and slide the hose up a little bit so a good section of hose was bridging the gap between the metal pipes. So far so good.
The real issue came when we went to bleed it. See, the bleed screw on the radiator is only accessible from under the bonnet...which we couldn’t open because the nose cone panel had been pushed up over it. I’d also bought a load of coolant after the near-overheat...which I’d sensibly put in the front boot.
Bugger.
We tried knocking it forwards with a hammer but it wouldn’t budge. Next up was to try prying it forwards with a hammer and later a crowbar a very friendly biker chap lent us, leading to this particularly distressing gif Mr Dutchman made:
That got us precisely nowhere, so the next step was to punch a hole through the panel with a screwdriver, and use tin-snips to scissor along the front, allowing us to push the top of the panel down and pull the back of the panel forwards. That led to this even more distressing video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDLRC3W3_Is
That did, at last, allow us to get the bonnet open.
Unfortunately, because the rad was pushed back we needed more cutting to get to the bleed screw which was now 4" further back than it used to be. This, my friends decided, was the ideal time for some humour
Some liberal application of duct tape later and we were finally ok to get on our way
Before that though, coolant to clean up, curry across the road and some phone calls to make. Before I left for Wales I was speaking to some very helpful people at a company called Eurosport who specialise in X1/9 parts. I rang them up and explained the situation: road trip in Wales, put the fiat through a tree, bent a tie rod. Is there anything they can do to help?
I’d just caught them before their chap took their last batch of deliveries off to the post office that day, and asked if they could send it overnight. Brilliant people they are they got that sorted 9am the next day, we’d have a replacement tie rod!
Silver lining: I can now say I’ve overnighted parts from another country (Norwich to Wales, but it counts!).
Still had another 50 miles to go until we got to the cottage, but we got there. Managed to scrub off most of the inside tread of my tyre on the way (initially I thought it was wind noise...but no...it’s my tyre squealing along on the road).
11pm we arrived at the cottage and set to work. Fiat up in the air...
...and bent tie rod off, ready for when the new one arrived tomorrow.
So yeah. Not my finest hour, but provided the evening's entertainment at least. Lots of the guys mentioned that it was quite refreshing for it not to be them stuck under their cars at 1am.
Oh, and I should also mention that the BX following shortly behind met that 90 degree corner, sharply put on its surprisingly incredible brakes, listed over 45-degrees and made it round.
Honestly the brakes on that things are phenomenal. The brake pressure isn't determined by how much force you can apply at the pedal but by what proportion of the 2000psi hydraulic system is fed to the brakes. Honestly with sticky tyres I reckon it could stop sharply enough to give you whiplash.
still, it's nice to have a rock-solid drivetrain for that sort of hooligan stuff Speaking of idiotic behaviour, here's the next part of my Welsh road trip. Caution though, it's not for the faint of heart :S
We left day 2 in much the same place as we left day 1: a leaking Citroen and a plan formulated over drinks on how to fix it (with the minor detour of an overheating Fiat).
Now, while our Dutch friend is clearly bonkers for catching air in the Citroen, he’s paradoxically also rather sensible. During the previous day he’d been scoping out garages near to where we were staying and we arranged some time on a lift to have a poke around.
Genuine quote from the mechanics: What is this, work on your own car day?
Luckily, the very helpful mechanic chappy managed to spot what it was. Or, at least, he discovered a random little tube coming from the strut that wasn’t connected to anything. Unfortunately, it didn’t look like there was much around for it to connect to...
Hum. What to do?
Oh wait. Didn’t we see a BX in the hedge just outside the garage?
Lets have a look at that and see if we can find where that hose goes.
Turns out that the misc hose on mine was one of the return lines from the struts which went to an MIA t-piece connecting both struts to a line running back to the reservoir.
Luckily, this was one of the things I had foreseen and had brought a box of varied t-pieces with me. A little jiggery-pokery with some scrap diesel return line the mechanic had lying around and we had a fixed Citroen!
So off we go again! Late, as usual, but on our way with a fixed Citroen
Today was the day when we were leaving the Brecon Beacons and travelling up to the second cottage in Snowdonia. Still a brilliant drive set out for us by one of the guys. I’d been endlessly impressed by how well the little Fiat performed on these twisty Welsh roads next to the much more powerful MX5, the BRZ which handled like it was on rails, and the MGF which wasn’t far behind the first two.
Power: neck and neck with the MGF
Handling and roadholding: keeps up fine with the 5 and F, and only just behind the BRZ which stuck to the road like it was on rails...or had a bonkers driver...or both)
Brakes: Not quite so good.
Yeah. Definitely not quite so good.
Moron.
What happened here is the BRZ, MX5, MGF and Fiat had all been sticking pretty close to each other down this brilliant winding country road. Up ahead there lay a really nasty little section. Three sweepers followed by a little crest then a sharp 90-degree left with some water runoff from the field it skirted.
The BRZ met this 90-degree corner, sharply put on its generously sized anchors, heaved left and made it round.
The MX5 met this 90-degree corner, sharply put on its big 4-pot brakes, heaved left and made it round. Just.
The MGF met this 90-degree corner, sharply put on its big 4-pot brakes, heaved left and made it round. Just.
The Fiat met this 90-degree corner, sharply put on its upspecced but not brilliant brakes, didn’t slow down enough before it hit the water runoff, locked the fronts and plowed straight ahead through the hedge and fence into a field the other side.
Sigh.
Moron
Negotiated it out of the field, paid the rather irritated farmer not to call the police (I gathered it wasn’t his first rodeo), mended the fence I broke with some rope we had, and limped it to the nearest town for a tea to calm the nerves and to assess the damage.
I reckon the left hand side took down one of the fence posts as the tie rod was bent fully 45-degrees, meaning I had some mad toe out. Like ‘right wheel pointing straight, left wheel halfway through its arc’ (see below pic). Not much we can do about that at the moment. Radiator pushed back 4" or so, but seemed to be intact. However, one of the coolant hoses under the car had been split and was leaking a fair amount of coolant.
Ok, so first thing’s first let’s have a go at fixing the coolant leak.
The leak itself was actually pretty straight forwards. Loosen the clamps and slide the hose up a little bit so a good section of hose was bridging the gap between the metal pipes. So far so good.
The real issue came when we went to bleed it. See, the bleed screw on the radiator is only accessible from under the bonnet...which we couldn’t open because the nose cone panel had been pushed up over it. I’d also bought a load of coolant after the near-overheat...which I’d sensibly put in the front boot.
Bugger.
We tried knocking it forwards with a hammer but it wouldn’t budge. Next up was to try prying it forwards with a hammer and later a crowbar a very friendly biker chap lent us, leading to this particularly distressing gif Mr Dutchman made:
That got us precisely nowhere, so the next step was to punch a hole through the panel with a screwdriver, and use tin-snips to scissor along the front, allowing us to push the top of the panel down and pull the back of the panel forwards. That led to this even more distressing video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDLRC3W3_Is
That did, at last, allow us to get the bonnet open.
Unfortunately, because the rad was pushed back we needed more cutting to get to the bleed screw which was now 4" further back than it used to be. This, my friends decided, was the ideal time for some humour
Some liberal application of duct tape later and we were finally ok to get on our way
Before that though, coolant to clean up, curry across the road and some phone calls to make. Before I left for Wales I was speaking to some very helpful people at a company called Eurosport who specialise in X1/9 parts. I rang them up and explained the situation: road trip in Wales, put the fiat through a tree, bent a tie rod. Is there anything they can do to help?
I’d just caught them before their chap took their last batch of deliveries off to the post office that day, and asked if they could send it overnight. Brilliant people they are they got that sorted
9am the next day, we’d have a replacement tie rod!Silver lining: I can now say I’ve overnighted parts from another country (Norwich to Wales, but it counts!).
Still had another 50 miles to go until we got to the cottage, but we got there. Managed to scrub off most of the inside tread of my tyre on the way (initially I thought it was wind noise...but no...it’s my tyre squealing along on the road).
11pm we arrived at the cottage and set to work. Fiat up in the air...
...and bent tie rod off, ready for when the new one arrived tomorrow.
So yeah. Not my finest hour, but provided the evening's entertainment at least. Lots of the guys mentioned that it was quite refreshing for it not to be them stuck under their cars at 1am.
Oh, and I should also mention that the BX following shortly behind met that 90 degree corner, sharply put on its surprisingly incredible brakes, listed over 45-degrees and made it round.
Honestly the brakes on that things are phenomenal. The brake pressure isn't determined by how much force you can apply at the pedal but by what proportion of the 2000psi hydraulic system is fed to the brakes. Honestly with sticky tyres I reckon it could stop sharply enough to give you whiplash.
Edited by BiTurbo228 on Saturday 25th August 09:54
We left day 3 in a rather sorry state. Fiat put through a hedge and significantly dinged up. Suspension bent. Tyres scrubbed from dragging them along for 50 miles. Still, the Citroen was fixed, and yet again we had a plan
Up bright and early for when the parts arrived (thanks again to Eurosport!). Sadly, I didn’t make many friends with this given that apparently I’m a heavy sleeper with a loud alarm (sorry guys!).
New tie rod next to the old busted one
While we were mucking about with that, one of our friends decided to give us a perfect example of stereotypical BMW parking
Took us a little while to get the tie rod on, but luckily there was a little local garage just outside where we were staying (whoever chose the locations for our accommodation did a stellar job!).
We hung back for a little while to have the Fiat tracked, the battery charged (a terminal on the alternator had worked itself loose so it wasn’t charging properly on the way back, easy fix), and inspect the diff seals on my sister’s 5 which were leaking (not enough to impede progress).
The rest of the gang set off earlier for the route while we went straight to the karting which we’d booked for 2pm (as our Dutch friend said, many great roads weren’t driven by our group).
Still, we can hardly call the direct route uninteresting...
Looks like we weren’t the only ones to think so
Three more from our bunch
All managed to meet up at karting fine pretty short track, but still buckets of fun. I always thought I was a bit of a hot-shoe at karting, but to save my ego I’m going to say that we have some very quick members of our group
Mr MGB almost didn’t make it to karting. In a refreshing change, it wasn’t actually one of our cars that managed to wound itself! In the next picture you can kind of see the issue the MGB faces with Welsh roads...
That’s...not a lot of ground clearance...
Some finest bodgery to get it going again (it was deafeningly loud with a hole in the exhaust), and he just managed to scrape through don't let the rusty exhaust fool you. Apart from that this car was probably in the best condition of any that were there.
After a very pleasant meandering drive back (where nothing bad happened!), we arrived back at our cottage for a well deserved rest (and some well deserved beers). Honestly, it felt a little odd not to be fixing something, but definitely welcome!
Up bright and early for when the parts arrived (thanks again to Eurosport!). Sadly, I didn’t make many friends with this given that apparently I’m a heavy sleeper with a loud alarm (sorry guys!).
New tie rod next to the old busted one
While we were mucking about with that, one of our friends decided to give us a perfect example of stereotypical BMW parking
Took us a little while to get the tie rod on, but luckily there was a little local garage just outside where we were staying (whoever chose the locations for our accommodation did a stellar job!).
We hung back for a little while to have the Fiat tracked, the battery charged (a terminal on the alternator had worked itself loose so it wasn’t charging properly on the way back, easy fix), and inspect the diff seals on my sister’s 5 which were leaking (not enough to impede progress).
The rest of the gang set off earlier for the route while we went straight to the karting which we’d booked for 2pm (as our Dutch friend said, many great roads weren’t driven by our group).
Still, we can hardly call the direct route uninteresting...
Looks like we weren’t the only ones to think so
Three more from our bunch
All managed to meet up at karting fine
pretty short track, but still buckets of fun. I always thought I was a bit of a hot-shoe at karting, but to save my ego I’m going to say that we have some very quick members of our group Mr MGB almost didn’t make it to karting. In a refreshing change, it wasn’t actually one of our cars that managed to wound itself! In the next picture you can kind of see the issue the MGB faces with Welsh roads...
That’s...not a lot of ground clearance...
Some finest bodgery to get it going again (it was deafeningly loud with a hole in the exhaust), and he just managed to scrape through
don't let the rusty exhaust fool you. Apart from that this car was probably in the best condition of any that were there.After a very pleasant meandering drive back (where nothing bad happened!), we arrived back at our cottage for a well deserved rest (and some well deserved beers). Honestly, it felt a little odd not to be fixing something, but definitely welcome!
Edited by BiTurbo228 on Monday 27th August 00:05
Day 5. Day 5 was special. For the first time in the Wales trip we actually set off as a proper convoy! Nothing (immediate) to fix. Wahey! Took until the last day to do it, but we got there
The previous night, Mr MGB presented awards! Mr Twingo won fastest at karting, Mr BRZ won...shall we say ‘bravest’ driver
I, however, humbly accepted the award for ‘most entertaining’ pride of place on the front of the Fiat:
The end-result of this was that I got to drive around Wales with a sticker proudly claiming the fact that I am ‘definitely not a sheep-shagger’. The Welsh, true to the warmhearted nature we’d experienced so far, thought this was very entertaining
All went smoothly until Mr Dutchman was a little over-ambitious turning into a junction and clipped a kerb at quite some speed...
Still, let us test out the BX’s party piece of putting the suspension at the top of its travel, sticking an axle stand under the corner and lowering the suspension so it picked its own injured wheel off the ground
Once that was fixed, we managed to get the first and only photoshoot of (nearly) the whole gang! Managed to miss Mr Elise and Mr Cappuccino who could only make the first half, but still!
BX displaying its other party trick of rivalling the ground clearance of dedicated offroaders
After a day of convoying around some more lovely Welsh roads that was that what an absolute adventure.
Wasn’t quite over for us yet though. After stopping off in Shrewsbury overnight (some awesome pubs there), our little gang wended our way home. We very nearly got home without needing to work on a car every single day, but this last time we were pleased to help.
About 10 miles from home we came across an old boy in a cracking jacket and a 1920s Rolls Royce stranded on the side of the road.
All it needed was the spare wheel swapping over, but there’s a locking ring inside it that had got jammed trying to take it off. Little did he know that he’d met the perfect people for the job!
Tools out, old wheel off and new wheel on. All done in no time
There’s some serious engineering in one of these. You can tell the designers were involved in aircraft back in the ‘20s. Just check out the hub:
Monster splines locate the wheel, and there’s a funky single wheelnut with locking teeth to prevent it unwinding (it was the outer toothed section in the wheel that had got dislodged and stuck).
The engine’s a similar work of heavy-duty art:
The chap was so grateful he let me have a little drive in it! The gearbox is unsynchro’d and the throttle’s a little tricky. The solution was to just stick it in fourth and lift the clutch (no throttle at all). All 5 metres of the thing just eased itself away...in top gear...without a single splutter or hesitation. I suppose a low-revving 7.7l I6 will do that.
And that, finally, was that a few of the guys crashed at my place before their various ferries and eurotunnels in the morning, but that was it.
So, what did we learn?
[*] I am either very good, or very very bad at road trips. Probably both.
[*] Wales is a stunning place full of the whole gamut of driving roads, great scenery, and friendly people.
[*]It really pays to bring tools along with you, and having at least a bit of experience to dive in and fix things. There’s at least four separate occasions we’d probably have been stranded if we hadn’t.
[*]I’ve got a lot of work to do on the Fiat (more on that next!).
The previous night, Mr MGB presented awards! Mr Twingo won fastest at karting, Mr BRZ won...shall we say ‘bravest’ driver
I, however, humbly accepted the award for ‘most entertaining’
pride of place on the front of the Fiat:The end-result of this was that I got to drive around Wales with a sticker proudly claiming the fact that I am ‘definitely not a sheep-shagger’. The Welsh, true to the warmhearted nature we’d experienced so far, thought this was very entertaining
All went smoothly until Mr Dutchman was a little over-ambitious turning into a junction and clipped a kerb at quite some speed...
Still, let us test out the BX’s party piece of putting the suspension at the top of its travel, sticking an axle stand under the corner and lowering the suspension so it picked its own injured wheel off the ground
Once that was fixed, we managed to get the first and only photoshoot of (nearly) the whole gang! Managed to miss Mr Elise and Mr Cappuccino who could only make the first half, but still!
BX displaying its other party trick of rivalling the ground clearance of dedicated offroaders
After a day of convoying around some more lovely Welsh roads that was that
what an absolute adventure.Wasn’t quite over for us yet though. After stopping off in Shrewsbury overnight (some awesome pubs there), our little gang wended our way home. We very nearly got home without needing to work on a car every single day, but this last time we were pleased to help.
About 10 miles from home we came across an old boy in a cracking jacket and a 1920s Rolls Royce stranded on the side of the road.
All it needed was the spare wheel swapping over, but there’s a locking ring inside it that had got jammed trying to take it off. Little did he know that he’d met the perfect people for the job!
Tools out, old wheel off and new wheel on. All done in no time
There’s some serious engineering in one of these. You can tell the designers were involved in aircraft back in the ‘20s. Just check out the hub:
Monster splines locate the wheel, and there’s a funky single wheelnut with locking teeth to prevent it unwinding (it was the outer toothed section in the wheel that had got dislodged and stuck).
The engine’s a similar work of heavy-duty art:
The chap was so grateful he let me have a little drive in it! The gearbox is unsynchro’d and the throttle’s a little tricky. The solution was to just stick it in fourth and lift the clutch (no throttle at all). All 5 metres of the thing just eased itself away...in top gear...without a single splutter or hesitation. I suppose a low-revving 7.7l I6 will do that.
And that, finally, was that
a few of the guys crashed at my place before their various ferries and eurotunnels in the morning, but that was it.So, what did we learn?
[*] I am either very good, or very very bad at road trips. Probably both.
[*] Wales is a stunning place full of the whole gamut of driving roads, great scenery, and friendly people.
[*]It really pays to bring tools along with you, and having at least a bit of experience to dive in and fix things. There’s at least four separate occasions we’d probably have been stranded if we hadn’t.
[*]I’ve got a lot of work to do on the Fiat (more on that next!).
Thanks guys! Glad you enjoyed it, and glad you made it through
And take note PHers. More people should put their cars through hedges!
As of now it's nearly fixed though only thing stopping an MoT is that the horn's inexplicably stopped working. Still some other bits and pieces to fix (tappy valves, bigger rear brake calipers from a Montecarlo, and a weak alternator), but nothing stopping it from getting back on the road more on that when I get the chance to write it up
And take note PHers. More people should put their cars through hedges!
As of now it's nearly fixed though
only thing stopping an MoT is that the horn's inexplicably stopped working. Still some other bits and pieces to fix (tappy valves, bigger rear brake calipers from a Montecarlo, and a weak alternator), but nothing stopping it from getting back on the road more on that when I get the chance to write it up So, the fiat's story doesn't end in Wales. We can rebuild it! We have the technology
First thing’s first, a damage assessment:
1. Front end pretty thoroughly mashed in and cut up to get the bonnet open
2. Various dings all over the body
3. Left-hand tie rod bent to 45-degrees (fixed in Wales)
4. Couldn’t quite get the tracking right in Wales which suggests something else is bent
5. Front left wheel which took the brunt of the force seems to rock back and forth on the strut (the rod of the shock moves in relation to the body)
6. Radiator pushed back 4", but otherwise intact
7. Lower lip spoiler pulled off
8. Bumpers wrecked
9. Wing mirror left behind in the field
10. Fuel pump whining and not able to keep up with fuelling above 4000rpm towards the end of the trip
Next up, lets strip everything down ready for repair (exposing just how thoroughly wrecked the nose panel is).
Then removing all of the mangled metal and welding it back up. Had to cut a slit along the top of the bent section to pull it down and forwards into shape, and re-make the leading lip.
Apologies for the schizophrenic photo brightness. This was done over the course of a few days.
As a thankyou for borrowing the MG F, my mate bought me a fibreglass nosecone as you can’t really get steel ones anymore. Took a bit of fettling to get it into the right shape (slit down the middle and bent up slightly), but got there in the end.
Before:
After:
Next step was to sort the rad. Not that it really needed extra cooling at the moment, but in the future I’d like to see if I can push the power up a little on this so an alloy rad would be a good investment
Difficult to find in the UK, but I found an outfit in the States selling some really nice ones. Trouble is they were quoting about £200 in shipping! Didn't want to send USPS for some reason.
Luckily, one of the forums I knock around has a big american presence, and a brilliant lady on there helped me ship it over for nearly £120 less than the original quote much better.
Supposed to be bolt-on, but it fouled the original radiator bracket so I took the opportunity to make a lightweight tubular one from my spit build I'm normally obsessed with weighing each weight reduction thing I do, but must have forgotten with this.
And fitted
Ok, now for the dings and bent suspension. I was originally going to get some quotes for paintless dent repair, but then I thought ‘I’ve got a rubber mallet and a block of 4x2...how hard can it be?’.
Turns out, not that difficult.
Gutted I didn’t get a before pic, but there used to be a massive dent on the rear part of this wing. Pushed in a good half-inch over a dinner-plate-sized area. Just look at the reflection of the bin in it now. Flat as a pancake
There’s still some wrinkles at the back where I couldn’t get the mallet behind properly, and below where there’s a complicated little crease, but it’s about a billion times better than it used to be.
As for suspension, you can see in this pic on the lower right where the forward suspension link has been pulled downwards by the impact. The gap you can see at the back in between the two downward prongs and the radiator mount bar shouldn't be there.
Jacked that up and welded it back together. I also discovered the big ol’ cast steel transverse link was tweaked a bit. Expensive buggers to replace, so I carefully straightened it out in my pipe bender which worked a treat
The knocking shock/strut turned out to be the shock insert moving inside the strut. Further inspection showed that the big threaded section that clamps the shock in had been expanded slightly by the impact so that it would slip if you tried to screw it in tight enough to hold it steady.
After a bit of an abortive search for replacement struts I decided to fix that too. Stuck it in the vice with a big beefy socket beneath it (securing it on 3 sides) and the top bit screwed in. Then proceeded to ‘tap’ it with a big lump hammer progressively around and around the outside shrinking it until you could bolt it up ok. Again, worked a treat
Next thing I noticed was that the coolant pipes running along the front of the car were leaking a bit. Fair amount of faffing about to get them sealed, but eventually I made these
Hum, what was next? Oh yeah, bumpers. I’d picked up some fibreglass replacement ones but they came without mounting hardware so made up some little brackets and rubber mounts to fit them to the body and fibreglassed them in place.
Discovered that the whining fuel pump was due to a thoroughly blocked filter. Replaced that (and the pump for good measure) and the running problems sorted themselves
Noticed that the handbrake probably wouldn’t pass MoT so set about adjusting that. Had to widen the access panel underneath the car as the new coolant hose routing at the back ran directly over the old access hole.
Adjustment didn’t really fix it as they didn’t seem to be releasing properly, so took the calipers apart to have a look why. Glad I did as this is what came out:
Some of those chunks of rust are a good few millimetres in diameter. Plenty enough to get stuck in brake pipes. We reckoned the master cylinder had probably gone rusty inside as it was pretty rusty outside so set about replacing that. Right pain in the backside job that. Who puts a brake master cylinder in the driver’s footwell?
Replaced that (somehow managing to avoid spilling brake fluid all over the footwell which was a minor miracle). Also resealed all the brakes while I was at it to check that they didn’t have buckets of rust inside them too. Bleeding them was a pain as one of the banjo fittings wasn’t sealing properly. The only way we found out is that when someone leant on the pedal quite hard it sent a jet of brake fluid across the garage. Some better quality copper washers fixed that.
And this is how she stands now!
Since that pic the horn's stopped working (shoddy little tangs connecting to the button on the wheel) so I've just stuck a button in to do the horn. Still a couple of bits and pieces to fix (tappy valves, bigger rear calipers from a Lancia Montecarlo to balance the brakes better, and a weakly charging alternator), but nothing I can’t do as I’m driving
So yeah. Nearly there! I can’t wait
First thing’s first, a damage assessment:
1. Front end pretty thoroughly mashed in and cut up to get the bonnet open
2. Various dings all over the body
3. Left-hand tie rod bent to 45-degrees (fixed in Wales)
4. Couldn’t quite get the tracking right in Wales which suggests something else is bent
5. Front left wheel which took the brunt of the force seems to rock back and forth on the strut (the rod of the shock moves in relation to the body)
6. Radiator pushed back 4", but otherwise intact
7. Lower lip spoiler pulled off
8. Bumpers wrecked
9. Wing mirror left behind in the field
10. Fuel pump whining and not able to keep up with fuelling above 4000rpm towards the end of the trip
Next up, lets strip everything down ready for repair (exposing just how thoroughly wrecked the nose panel is).
Then removing all of the mangled metal and welding it back up. Had to cut a slit along the top of the bent section to pull it down and forwards into shape, and re-make the leading lip.
Apologies for the schizophrenic photo brightness. This was done over the course of a few days.
As a thankyou for borrowing the MG F, my mate bought me a fibreglass nosecone as you can’t really get steel ones anymore. Took a bit of fettling to get it into the right shape (slit down the middle and bent up slightly), but got there in the end.
Before:
After:
Next step was to sort the rad. Not that it really needed extra cooling at the moment, but in the future I’d like to see if I can push the power up a little on this so an alloy rad would be a good investment
Difficult to find in the UK, but I found an outfit in the States selling some really nice ones. Trouble is they were quoting about £200 in shipping! Didn't want to send USPS for some reason.
Luckily, one of the forums I knock around has a big american presence, and a brilliant lady on there helped me ship it over for nearly £120 less than the original quote
much better.Supposed to be bolt-on, but it fouled the original radiator bracket so I took the opportunity to make a lightweight tubular one
from my spit build I'm normally obsessed with weighing each weight reduction thing I do, but must have forgotten with this.And fitted
Ok, now for the dings and bent suspension. I was originally going to get some quotes for paintless dent repair, but then I thought ‘I’ve got a rubber mallet and a block of 4x2...how hard can it be?’.
Turns out, not that difficult.
Gutted I didn’t get a before pic, but there used to be a massive dent on the rear part of this wing. Pushed in a good half-inch over a dinner-plate-sized area. Just look at the reflection of the bin in it now. Flat as a pancake
There’s still some wrinkles at the back where I couldn’t get the mallet behind properly, and below where there’s a complicated little crease, but it’s about a billion times better than it used to be.
As for suspension, you can see in this pic on the lower right where the forward suspension link has been pulled downwards by the impact. The gap you can see at the back in between the two downward prongs and the radiator mount bar shouldn't be there.
Jacked that up and welded it back together. I also discovered the big ol’ cast steel transverse link was tweaked a bit. Expensive buggers to replace, so I carefully straightened it out in my pipe bender which worked a treat
The knocking shock/strut turned out to be the shock insert moving inside the strut. Further inspection showed that the big threaded section that clamps the shock in had been expanded slightly by the impact so that it would slip if you tried to screw it in tight enough to hold it steady.
After a bit of an abortive search for replacement struts I decided to fix that too. Stuck it in the vice with a big beefy socket beneath it (securing it on 3 sides) and the top bit screwed in. Then proceeded to ‘tap’ it with a big lump hammer progressively around and around the outside shrinking it until you could bolt it up ok. Again, worked a treat
Next thing I noticed was that the coolant pipes running along the front of the car were leaking a bit. Fair amount of faffing about to get them sealed, but eventually I made these
Hum, what was next? Oh yeah, bumpers. I’d picked up some fibreglass replacement ones but they came without mounting hardware so made up some little brackets and rubber mounts to fit them to the body and fibreglassed them in place.
Discovered that the whining fuel pump was due to a thoroughly blocked filter. Replaced that (and the pump for good measure) and the running problems sorted themselves
Noticed that the handbrake probably wouldn’t pass MoT so set about adjusting that. Had to widen the access panel underneath the car as the new coolant hose routing at the back ran directly over the old access hole.
Adjustment didn’t really fix it as they didn’t seem to be releasing properly, so took the calipers apart to have a look why. Glad I did as this is what came out:
Some of those chunks of rust are a good few millimetres in diameter. Plenty enough to get stuck in brake pipes. We reckoned the master cylinder had probably gone rusty inside as it was pretty rusty outside so set about replacing that. Right pain in the backside job that. Who puts a brake master cylinder in the driver’s footwell?
Replaced that (somehow managing to avoid spilling brake fluid all over the footwell which was a minor miracle). Also resealed all the brakes while I was at it to check that they didn’t have buckets of rust inside them too. Bleeding them was a pain as one of the banjo fittings wasn’t sealing properly. The only way we found out is that when someone leant on the pedal quite hard it sent a jet of brake fluid across the garage. Some better quality copper washers fixed that.
And this is how she stands now!
Since that pic the horn's stopped working (shoddy little tangs connecting to the button on the wheel) so I've just stuck a button in to do the horn. Still a couple of bits and pieces to fix (tappy valves, bigger rear calipers from a Lancia Montecarlo to balance the brakes better, and a weakly charging alternator), but nothing I can’t do as I’m driving
So yeah. Nearly there! I can’t wait
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