Saab 9-5 2.0t auto saloon 2001

Saab 9-5 2.0t auto saloon 2001

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DanG355

Original Poster:

539 posts

202 months

Tuesday 25th September 2018
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Karl has replied to my email already (within a few minutes of me sending it) - great service!

He has suggested I look for air leaks due to vac pipes being blown off from being old or perished and then see if the intercooler hoses are split or loose.

Next would be to check the spark plugs to ensure they are not old or incorrect (NGK BCPR7ES are recommended) and are correctly gapped.

If it is not these then I am to check the DI for cracks between the turrets.

Good advice from Karl starting with things that won't cost anything to check and then the cheaper parts before the DI cassette. I may get time to start looking tomorrow evening but if not it will be the weekend.

Although the car is not working 100% I am pleased Karl has pointed me in the right direction and is just something that can happen when you put more boost through the components - some of which are probably the originals from 17 years ago!

DanG355

Original Poster:

539 posts

202 months

Tuesday 25th September 2018
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I've ordered some vacuum hose and a new set of NGK BCPR7ES plugs as the combined price for these is £20 and gives me some parts to try when I look at it.

Just took it for another quick run and the problem is still there but it feels very strong until it hits the problem. I won't drive it again until I've looked into the issue in case it causes another issue or damages something. I'm confident it will all soon be well...

DanG355

Original Poster:

539 posts

202 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
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No update yesterday as I was doing this for the first time...


DanG355

Original Poster:

539 posts

202 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
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Lewis - nothing too bad there, just a few items that can and do need sorting on a lot of cars this age. Still costs money to sort though!

I'll have a look at the vacuum hoses tonight and see if there are any that are not connected, loose or damaged. If they all look OK then I'll check the plugs as the new ones should arrive today.

My suspicion is a vacuum hose as this is what Abbott found when I took it to them to book it in for the sump drop and they replaced one. Could be that the is another one or others than also now need replacing (the one they changed is still in place).

DanG355

Original Poster:

539 posts

202 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
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Thanks M1C. I'm new to Saabs but can see the appeal. The Aero is a great car and the price of them now makes them a bargain. I've been into BMW's in the past but it's getting harder find a good 6 cylinder E46 or E39 for less than £2k and the good ones are still circa £3k and have their own issues with rust, front suspension bushes and rear axle mounts to name a few.

With Saabs generally having strong reliability and being cheap tune I can see the appeal. Shame they don't still make them as in 5 years or so there won't be many good ones left!

DanG355

Original Poster:

539 posts

202 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
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SO got home from work and started investigating the problem with the car cutting out under high boost/throttle.

I checked all the vacuum lines and all seemed OK so I decided to change the plugs for the new ones. I did look at the Noobtune menu on the SID and it showed 0 misfires but thought I'd change the plugs anyway as I had new ones.

Changing the plugs was a very easy job and was relieved to see the DI cassette is in excellent condition so I suspect may have been replaced in the past. The plug gaps seemed rather large though and much more than the recommended 1.0mm so I checked the new plugs and fitted them.






DanG355

Original Poster:

539 posts

202 months

Thursday 27th September 2018
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After changing the plugs I started the car but the engine management light was still on and a brief drive confirmed it was still cutting out under full throttle.

I need to use the car so I decided I would de-Noob the car and swap the original ECU in and see what happened. I am a dab hand at changing the ECU so after about 15mins the old ECU was back in place. I started the engine and the engine management light had gone out.

I went for a brief drive and the car was back to it's old self pre-Noob. I guess the extra boost is highlighting a weak point somewhere in the boost pipes or intercooler as there are no misfires logged and no vacuum pipes missing or damaged.

As I got close to home a message appeared on the SID saying check coolant level and as I pulled onto the drive I could smell burning - not good! I quickly shut off the engine and popped the bonnet but could already see pink coolant leaking from under the car. Somewhat disheartened I wondered what could have happened and what damage the extra boost had done. There was a little steam rising from the back of the engine near the bulkhead, to the right of where the long black intake pipe goes into the engine intake.

After the car had cooled a little I opened the expansion tank and poured in as much water as I could to see where it leaked out. By now it was dark so difficult to see with a torch, but eventually I heard a loud trickle sound and traced the leak to here.





It appears that when I was checking the vacuum pipes I may have been a little rough with the heater control valve (also known as coolant bypass valve) and it had cracked at the back causing coolant to escape and pour onto the hot exhaust. Frustrating, but at the same time a relief that it was nothing to do with the boost and no major damage.

I ordered a new heater control valve from GSF Car Parts as they have it in stock and I can collect it tomorrow. It cost just under £10 so luckily not expensive, although all the parts are starting to add up now.

The plan is to fit the new valve and refill the coolant tomorrow then see how the car runs on a longer journey with the original ECU still in place. Probably do a few laps of the village where I live in case there is a problem as I don't want to be far from home.

If it all runs OK I think I am going to leave the original ECU in place for now as the problems have only occurred with the new ECU in place. I don't think there is anything wrong with the new ECU but I do think it is putting more pressure on the boost pipes or other component that has a weakness and causes the hesitation, loss of power and engine management light under full throttle.

If the car runs fault free for a while and I feel the need for more power then I will try the new ECU again and budget for some new parts such as boost hoses and possibly even a new intercooler. Abbott Racing may be able to help but not sure how they would feel about sorting a problem with a modified ECU fitted that is not theirs plus the cost of tracing and rectifying it is not something I need after the expense of the last week or so.

I am pretty sure that with the original ECU in place, the new heater control valve fitted and the coolant refilled the car will run sweet again at the standard 150bhp - hopefully by this time tomorrow...

DanG355

Original Poster:

539 posts

202 months

Friday 28th September 2018
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I don't think it's the plugs as there is no misfire with the standard ECU and the Noobtune ECU registered zero misfires so I think it is a boost or fuelling issue.

Tonight I got home with the new heater valve and 4 litres of coolant. I had already studied the many online guides on how to change it and other than a few awkward ring hose clips that were not the easiest to remove with pliers, it was a pretty straightforward to change.

Here's the old one that was snapped in two by the time I removed it next to the new one.



I bought some Prestone antifreeze/coolant and refilled the system and was pleased to see none leaked out and the new valve was working as it should.

I warmed the engine as part of the procedure for topping up the coolant and so took the Saab for a drive. It feels absolutely spot on and pulls well with smooth gear changes, boosting nicely on the turbo and no warnings on the dash or SID.

It's been quite a week, but I'm very happy that the sump is cleaned, the car has new fully synthetic oil and filter, new spark plugs and the car running smoothly.

DanG355

Original Poster:

539 posts

202 months

Sunday 30th September 2018
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The Saab is still running nicely. It feels very smooth and relaxing to drive and reminds me of why I bought it in the first place - to make my 25 mile each way commute more comfortable (and economical) that the Boxster.

Following your comments regarding air con - I haven't really checked mine. When I test drove the car when I bought it I did turn the temperature to the "Lo" setting and it came out cold so thought it must be working and turned it back up again. I don't remember if it was ice cold but I think it must have been pretty cold or I would have noticed it wasn't working. Also last week I set it to 21 and it felt pretty cold even at that setting so I guess all is well but will check it.

I completed the last job on my list for now - fitting new badges. The front badge was a little tough to remove as it was still well stuck on and I didn't want to be too rough and damage the paintwork but with a little gentle work with fishing line, a screwdriver and cloth to protect the paintwork I got it off and the new one fitted perfectly and the sticky backing feels pretty strong so hopefully it'll stay on.





Next was the rear badge. The fishing line came out again and this time the badge lifted easier with a cloth protected screwdriver to prise it off. Once off however I noticed the two pins were not spaced the same as the new badge - oh dear... Luckily there is a small hole in the back of the old badge that I was able to fit a small screwdriver into and push through the front of the old badge. I was then able to use a pair of small pliers to pull the emblem away from the silver backing plate. I then cleaned up the backing plate and re-attached it to the boot with a tiny amount of adhesive before sticking the sticky backed emblem from the new badge in place (the new badges come in two parts).





I'm not sure if the badges look perfectly straight in the pictures, but I have checked them several times on the car and they do appear to be perfectly straight honest! I think they look much better on the car than the old ones and compliment the black paintwork perfectly.


DanG355

Original Poster:

539 posts

202 months

Sunday 30th September 2018
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I filled the car up with petrol today for the first time since the day I bought it. The petrol light came on (tut tut for running it so low) and the SID read that I had 50 miles of fuel left.

I brimmed the car until I could fit no more fuel in and it was just under 65 litres so considering the tank is I believe 70 litres was pretty low. I will remember that if the fuel light comes on to fill it pretty quickly so I don't completely run out, but ideally I don't like to run cars much below quarter of a tank.

I will reset the SID when I leave for work in the morning and see what sort of mileage I get on my commute. I estimate the Boxster does about 27MPG (it's a 2.7 engine) and would be happy to see 32 from the Saab but if it's a slow traffic day I'd settle for 30MPG. My commute is a few backroads then mostly the A120 and A12 dual carriageways so on a good run it might surprise me.

DanG355

Original Poster:

539 posts

202 months

Monday 1st October 2018
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It was a pretty stop/start journey to work this morning as the A12 was congested. I was quite happy to see this figure after a journey like that.



I had to pop out at lunchtime for a 10 min each way journey that was into a village with a few junctions and 30 zones which reduced the economy.

A good journey home helped boost the MPG so my overall figure after about 60 miles was OK.



Hopefully I'll have a better journey to work in the morning and see the figure change to a number beginning with a 3... I won't reset it as I'm keen to see what it will do over the course of a week. Economy isn't my main priority with the car (I would've bought a smaller car or even a diesel if it was) but am interested to see what the real world economy is like. The Parkers Guide figure for a 2001 9-5 Arc 2.0t Auto is 27MPG.

A colleague came with me when I had to pop out at lunchtime (mid 50's, drives an `18 plate Audi A3) and he was impressed with the quality of the interior and smoothness of the drive. I guess the longer wheelbase and inch smaller rims compared to his A3 help with that.

The car feels more comfortable wafting about with the current ECU than it did trying to push higher boost and accelerate hard with the tuned ECU in place. I will see how I feel in the future but for now I'm very happy with the car as it sits now and it's perfect for my original aim - have a car than is comfortable for commuting through the winter but still looks smart and is practical.

I've noticed the heater warms up nice and quickly in the morning - was a little concerned it might be something to do with the car dumping it's coolant when the heater valve broke, but the level is still bang on where it should be and the temperature needle sits right in the middle of the gauge once the engine is warmed up so I guess it's an advantage of a car made in Sweden.

DanG355

Original Poster:

539 posts

202 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2018
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Good luck with your MOT baptistsan. Always a nervous time but a great feeling if it passes!

It's been a trouble free couple of days (tempting fate now...) commuting to and from the office and enjoying comfy seats and relaxing drive.

I've found a couple of things I didn't know about by reading through the owners manual. First of all are the little pockets on the front of the seats driver and passenger, like a kangaroo pouch!). Secondly, there is the chilled glovebox you can use by sliding a small tab in the glovebox forward or backwards. I've also used the reversing-dip-the-mirror button. I'm only about half way through the manual so may find more.

Here is the latest fuel economy reading - traffic was better today even with a bit of stop/start both ways so it's creeping up. Found the fuel tank is actually 75 litres - pretty huge and larger than the 68 litre tank on the XC90 we have!


DanG355

Original Poster:

539 posts

202 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2018
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Hello Hope your hunt for another 9-5 is still on? Yes shame about the ECU and I think I could trace and sort it by working through a check list but as the car is running well I’ll keep the tuned ECU and maybe look into it again in the spring.

DanG355

Original Poster:

539 posts

202 months

Tuesday 2nd October 2018
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Wormus - sounds like yours is progressing well. You’ll certainly feel the extra power.

Another thing I found today - the auto-dimming rear view mirror has a button on the bottom to turn off the auto dim function. Never had that on an auto-dimming mirror before. As my missus said though - why would you want to turn it off and get blinded?! Any answers...?

DanG355

Original Poster:

539 posts

202 months

Tuesday 9th October 2018
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Well it's been a few days since my last update and I'm pleased to report that the car was running well on the original ECU other than perhaps feeling a little down on the supposed 150bhp it should have.

Fuel economy peaked at an indicated 31.2MPG before some more traffic jams and town driving resulting in a reading on the SID of 29.9MPG when I stopped at the petrol station to fill up again.

As mentioned, the car felt a little short of the full 150bhp and it felt like it was a boost issue. Having checked the vacuum pipes briefly already and not seeing any obvious defects I decided that rather than replace them all I would search online for advice.

A couple of threads on Saab sites mentioned cars that are down on boost benefitting from the "bolt mod" being carried out to the boost control valve - http://www.uksaabs.co.uk/UKS/viewtopic.php?f=2&amp...

I decided to give it a go and see what happened. Here is a side shot of my valve - it is the top hose that you disconnect and fit a bolt into the rubber/silicone pipe.


DanG355

Original Poster:

539 posts

202 months

Tuesday 9th October 2018
quotequote all
The bolt I used that fitted nice and snug was a 13mm head and about 30mm long. I then taped black electrical tape over it although this was not really necessary it looked neater and then I zip-tied it to the boost control valve.

I took it for a test drive but as this was done in my lunch break I didn't have time for a run at speed but the car did feel like it was holding boost better.

After work I had a run home on the A12/A120 and despite the traffic I managed to leave a gap in front and accelerate at full throttle a couple of times from 50MPH to 70MPH and the car definitely felt like it was holding boost better and accelerating quicker although still no rocket ship with a maximum of 150bhp!

I got home and decided to try the Noobtune ECU again - so much for waiting until spring!

DanG355

Original Poster:

539 posts

202 months

Tuesday 9th October 2018
quotequote all
The Noobtune ECU took about 10mins to change - it really is easy when you've done it a few times but I made sure I took care not to drop any nuts down the hole where the ECU goes.

It was definitely running better than it was and held full throttle better and accelerated very well up to about 50-60MPH before a slight stutter resulting in the EML flashing but it cleared and didn’t stay on and the car then ran well again as long as I was a little more gentle with the throttle and didn’t quite use full throttle. A second attempt at full throttle past 60MPH resulted in another small stutter and a flashing EML but again it cleared within a few seconds of lifting off.

The car drives fine as long as I don't quite use full throttle once above about 50MPH and still pulls harder even then than the standard ECU.

I read a few other threads and decided to monitor the air readings that the Noobtune open SID gives access to and they do seem a little out of sync – the air requested and the air delivered should be very close to each other but a couple of readings I managed to get under hard acceleration did show a large difference. Here are the largest differences I recorded:




DanG355

Original Poster:

539 posts

202 months

Tuesday 9th October 2018
quotequote all
I will continue to investigate it but the spark plugs are the new recommended ones gapped to 1.0mm and the DI all looks good so will focus on air/boost related issues.

I've emailed Karl at Noobtune to see if he can help as he has loads of experience, but I am sure it is a small issue somewhere on the car - I will find it so watch this space...

DanG355

Original Poster:

539 posts

202 months

Tuesday 9th October 2018
quotequote all
Karl at Noobtune has replied already - top bloke!

He has said regarding the air readings on the open SID:

"MREQ value is correct - if that drops then it means the ECU is being told something it doesn't like (DI/Plugs/fuel etc). If MAIR is too low then that's a physical 'turbo can't suck it in' thing e.g. bolt mod needed doing, dump valve going weak, faulty or dirty MAF, turbo actuator weak or not being controlled properly, faulty/dirty boost control, blocked exhaust or intake, incorrectly set wastegate, worn turbo etc etc etc".

So, based on this and my gut feel that there is a boost issue and with the bolt mod carried out having helped a little, my next plan is a new recirculating dump valve as mine is the original plastic one and may have a work/split/broken diaphragm.

I have ordered a new Maptun aluminium one from Neo Brothers for £44.94 including VAT and delivery and it should be here Thursday and only takes a few minutes to fit. I'll give an update when it is fitted.

If it doesn't solve the issue I will look at the actual boost control valve that is on the bulkhead next. The valve I disconnected the pipe from to carry out the bolt mod is actually called the APC valve and is often incorrectly called the boost control valve. I am still learning!

I'll also report on how the car runs on the Noobtune ECU over the next few days - I have left the original ECU and some tools in the car in case I have a problem and need to change it back to the original ECU.

DanG355

Original Poster:

539 posts

202 months

Wednesday 10th October 2018
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Glad yours is running well wormus - hope mine will soon be 100%.

The drive to work this morning was pretty good - car pulled well and ran smoothly most of the time. Twice when accelerating hard I got a flashing CEL which is an ignition problem and now have a code an "fcod 4867" showing on the open SID. This translates as fault code P1303 which is a misfire on cylinder 3.

Despite the DI cassette appearing in good condition, Karl at Noobtune has already recommended this could be the issue and now I have this code I have bitten the bullet and ordered a new one from Neo Brothers for £137.54 delivered. I did consider getting a second hand one to save costs, but from what I have read this is a false economy as a second hand one is still at least £50 and no guarantee how long it will last or that it will even be a good one.

I really hope this and the new recirculating dump valve have the car running spot on again - I am confident they will unless there is something else going on in cylinder 3, but the lack of any other issue now other than the misfire under hard acceleration on the tuned ECU suggests all will soon be well.