Back in a Lotus - 2006 Exige S
Discussion
I took my car to Performance Autocare (North Yorks' Lotus specialist) for a winter service and general healthcheck.
The car was collected on Friday, and happy to report a clear bill of health. Valve clearances were within tolerance (intake bang on the centre of the tolerance range, exhaust slightly to the looser end - but still within range) and the car (and my spannering) stood up nicely to scrutiny.
Jonny took a load of photos so would be criminal not to repost here. Car looked particularly lovely under the workshop lights (I need brighter lights in my garage)
I used the car for essential duties this weekend just to make the most of it now before December SORN. Sandwich plate is definitely doing as advertised, oil temps are a good chunk higher now at cruising speeds - big test will be next year on track to see if it's adversely affected the top end - but so far so good.
The car was collected on Friday, and happy to report a clear bill of health. Valve clearances were within tolerance (intake bang on the centre of the tolerance range, exhaust slightly to the looser end - but still within range) and the car (and my spannering) stood up nicely to scrutiny.
Jonny took a load of photos so would be criminal not to repost here. Car looked particularly lovely under the workshop lights (I need brighter lights in my garage)
I used the car for essential duties this weekend just to make the most of it now before December SORN. Sandwich plate is definitely doing as advertised, oil temps are a good chunk higher now at cruising speeds - big test will be next year on track to see if it's adversely affected the top end - but so far so good.
Since I had the ECU fitted I've been fiddling away with it on and off, never with a substantial update worth making a thread update on its own but as we approach SORN for the year I thought I'd consolidate my changes a bit.
The core of my map I've not really touched, the business end at higher RPM/load has been bob on. I frequently review temps/air fuel ratios and knock levels and everything is steady away. There are other areas though which needed a bit of improvement, and some parts of the ECU weren't even active at all.
1) Traction Control. I've sort of given up on this for now. The RPM based strategy available to me is just not going to work on a car with an open differential. Once my LSD is in it might be more workable for wet trackdays etc, but the real answer is to get hold of a wheel speed - CAN convertor (ECUMaster make/sell one) which will then take speed readings from the ABS system and allow me to setup a proper speed based strategy which should be much more flexible.
2) My speedo was flapping around a bit. I kept forgetting about it because it didn't happen very often, the needle would just flicker from time to time. I eventually looked into it after I discovered an old forum post somewhere about a different aftermarket ECU brand having the same effect and they did it by applying some filtering to the VSS Signal. I found a similar option in the EMU and from what I can see, it's resolved the problem.
3) My Idle control was never great, even on the stock ECU. On the stock ECU I had issues with the car occasionally stalling when coming up to a halt from speed, RRR had this fixed in my initial map but it was a bit heavy handed - the car would drop revs and then the ECU would kick in and really over-do it to correct, resulting in a bit of RPM oscillation which could make low speed driving quite awkward. The first step towards resolving this was just to raise my idle target to 950 (from 800) to give the car more wiggle room for avoiding the stalls, this seems like a popular approach for most remapped cars.
I then noticed that my idle control mechanisms (timing and throttlebody duty) were maxing out to try and meet this new target so I spent time recalibrating those tables to allow the car to maintain a smooth idle with (pretty much) zero correction. This was quite time consuming as I had to do it for all ranges of engine temp, but was satisfying to get right.
I then had a play with the EMU's abilities to "catch" falling revs and smooth out the transition between falling revs and idle. The Lotus hardware has an inherent issue in that the throttle body is so far away from the combustion chamber (in terms of air flow) as it's got to go through the supercharger/intercooler etc which all takes time - this contributes to the clumsy idle control.
In short I setup the ECU so that the RPM target for idle was artificially raised for a few seconds when entering idle control state, this smooths off the descent of revs, but if you go too heavy handed on it you end up with your revs hanging which feels nasty. After a fair bit of tweaking I think I've just about nailed it. The ECU originally had a feature called "virtual target" enabled which is a more modern/clever approach to this but I just couldn't get it working right, these log screenshots visualise what was happening:
Virtual Target(before):
Activation Increase(after):
You can see how the revs would previously drop down to 900 or so, then rise back up to meet the virtual target as it steadily ramped down. This ramp down rate can be adjusted, but I spent hours with it and could never find a setup that I liked. On a different car/engine I'm sure it works fine.
On my setup, the increase in RPM target is more binary, and is just enough to throw a bunch of air/timing at the map to rescue the revs bang on the 950 range where I want it which leads to a much more OEM feeling setup. There's still a small dip as you can see in the graph, perhaps a bit more fine tuning can erase that but you can't really feel it anymore.
4) Finally, the fun stuff. Since I'd made my mind up about uprating gearbox/clutch this winter I decided to get my money's worth out of the current setup and have a play with launch control. I borrowed a base setup from a 2ZR Elise Cup car and tweaked it from there to match the different torque curve of a 2ZZ setup. I set a hard limit of 4900RPM (can/should go a bit higher I think for optimal performance) and started ramping down timing/adding fuel from 3500 to smooth out the limiter. I could go harsher for bigger pops/bangs at the expense of components like catalytic converters... and engines.
It took a few runs to dial in the throttlebody overrides to try and maintain enough torque to not bog down, but once I got it, it felt great (until sea sickness kicked in!)
Whether it's faster than a manual launch or not? Who knows. I'll probably never touch it again after an expensive clutch goes back in the car :lol:
The core of my map I've not really touched, the business end at higher RPM/load has been bob on. I frequently review temps/air fuel ratios and knock levels and everything is steady away. There are other areas though which needed a bit of improvement, and some parts of the ECU weren't even active at all.
1) Traction Control. I've sort of given up on this for now. The RPM based strategy available to me is just not going to work on a car with an open differential. Once my LSD is in it might be more workable for wet trackdays etc, but the real answer is to get hold of a wheel speed - CAN convertor (ECUMaster make/sell one) which will then take speed readings from the ABS system and allow me to setup a proper speed based strategy which should be much more flexible.
2) My speedo was flapping around a bit. I kept forgetting about it because it didn't happen very often, the needle would just flicker from time to time. I eventually looked into it after I discovered an old forum post somewhere about a different aftermarket ECU brand having the same effect and they did it by applying some filtering to the VSS Signal. I found a similar option in the EMU and from what I can see, it's resolved the problem.
3) My Idle control was never great, even on the stock ECU. On the stock ECU I had issues with the car occasionally stalling when coming up to a halt from speed, RRR had this fixed in my initial map but it was a bit heavy handed - the car would drop revs and then the ECU would kick in and really over-do it to correct, resulting in a bit of RPM oscillation which could make low speed driving quite awkward. The first step towards resolving this was just to raise my idle target to 950 (from 800) to give the car more wiggle room for avoiding the stalls, this seems like a popular approach for most remapped cars.
I then noticed that my idle control mechanisms (timing and throttlebody duty) were maxing out to try and meet this new target so I spent time recalibrating those tables to allow the car to maintain a smooth idle with (pretty much) zero correction. This was quite time consuming as I had to do it for all ranges of engine temp, but was satisfying to get right.
I then had a play with the EMU's abilities to "catch" falling revs and smooth out the transition between falling revs and idle. The Lotus hardware has an inherent issue in that the throttle body is so far away from the combustion chamber (in terms of air flow) as it's got to go through the supercharger/intercooler etc which all takes time - this contributes to the clumsy idle control.
In short I setup the ECU so that the RPM target for idle was artificially raised for a few seconds when entering idle control state, this smooths off the descent of revs, but if you go too heavy handed on it you end up with your revs hanging which feels nasty. After a fair bit of tweaking I think I've just about nailed it. The ECU originally had a feature called "virtual target" enabled which is a more modern/clever approach to this but I just couldn't get it working right, these log screenshots visualise what was happening:
Virtual Target(before):
Activation Increase(after):
You can see how the revs would previously drop down to 900 or so, then rise back up to meet the virtual target as it steadily ramped down. This ramp down rate can be adjusted, but I spent hours with it and could never find a setup that I liked. On a different car/engine I'm sure it works fine.
On my setup, the increase in RPM target is more binary, and is just enough to throw a bunch of air/timing at the map to rescue the revs bang on the 950 range where I want it which leads to a much more OEM feeling setup. There's still a small dip as you can see in the graph, perhaps a bit more fine tuning can erase that but you can't really feel it anymore.
4) Finally, the fun stuff. Since I'd made my mind up about uprating gearbox/clutch this winter I decided to get my money's worth out of the current setup and have a play with launch control. I borrowed a base setup from a 2ZR Elise Cup car and tweaked it from there to match the different torque curve of a 2ZZ setup. I set a hard limit of 4900RPM (can/should go a bit higher I think for optimal performance) and started ramping down timing/adding fuel from 3500 to smooth out the limiter. I could go harsher for bigger pops/bangs at the expense of components like catalytic converters... and engines.
It took a few runs to dial in the throttlebody overrides to try and maintain enough torque to not bog down, but once I got it, it felt great (until sea sickness kicked in!)
Whether it's faster than a manual launch or not? Who knows. I'll probably never touch it again after an expensive clutch goes back in the car :lol:
I bought a lift. Been planning it for years but always found an excuse not to do it, ideally I wanted to knock my two garage doors into one single so I could position it centrally but I've just struggled to find anyone interested in taking on the building work for it - so gone for the lift anyway to help with my plans this winter.
It's a Strongman Tamar, seems perfect for a mid/rear car as the middle floor is just dead space. For a front engined/rear drive car it wouldn't be quite as good. It lifts 1200mm and is perfect 'sitting on a stool' height under the engine, or for working on the corners it's ideal standing height.
Still trying to collect the parts needed for my Winter modifications, hopefully I can get started soon and bore you all with updates over the festive period.
It's a Strongman Tamar, seems perfect for a mid/rear car as the middle floor is just dead space. For a front engined/rear drive car it wouldn't be quite as good. It lifts 1200mm and is perfect 'sitting on a stool' height under the engine, or for working on the corners it's ideal standing height.
Still trying to collect the parts needed for my Winter modifications, hopefully I can get started soon and bore you all with updates over the festive period.
Since buying the car I've been poking around various front splitter options. There's a few I like the look of, and a few which I definitely don't but I'd had it in mind to look at making something at some point to sharpen up the front end a bit (in terms of looks, I'm not naive enough to think it'll improve performance)
Every few months a generic splitter would come up for sale on the various forums/ebay etc. It was never advertised particularly well, poor pictures and description and the owner wasn't really sure what it was... but it was cheap enough that I could take a punt and if nothing else use it for a template to make something up myself.
I suspected that it might be a GRP copy of the Reverie 'downforce' splitter, the one that they had on the proper wind tunnel tested kit.
Paint was a bit tatty, so I'd decided to rub it down and re-do in satin black, but after a few minutes of sanding I found:
Then after many more minutes....
So it looks like a legit carbon Reverie splitter. Bit of a result there! It's clearly taken a knock or two in its life and there's evidence of a couple of resin repairs, so it's unlikely I'll be showing off the weave, and will continue with the plan to paint it black or vinyl wrap it - but it's nice to know I've got the real deal.
I'm one of the biggest sceptics out there when it comes to slapping on aftermarket aero to a road car, but Reverie seem one of the few that take proper testing seriously, so I'm a little bit concerned that I might upset the car a bit by just bolting this splitter on with nothing else. Maybe something to mull over.
Every few months a generic splitter would come up for sale on the various forums/ebay etc. It was never advertised particularly well, poor pictures and description and the owner wasn't really sure what it was... but it was cheap enough that I could take a punt and if nothing else use it for a template to make something up myself.
I suspected that it might be a GRP copy of the Reverie 'downforce' splitter, the one that they had on the proper wind tunnel tested kit.
Paint was a bit tatty, so I'd decided to rub it down and re-do in satin black, but after a few minutes of sanding I found:
Then after many more minutes....
So it looks like a legit carbon Reverie splitter. Bit of a result there! It's clearly taken a knock or two in its life and there's evidence of a couple of resin repairs, so it's unlikely I'll be showing off the weave, and will continue with the plan to paint it black or vinyl wrap it - but it's nice to know I've got the real deal.
I'm one of the biggest sceptics out there when it comes to slapping on aftermarket aero to a road car, but Reverie seem one of the few that take proper testing seriously, so I'm a little bit concerned that I might upset the car a bit by just bolting this splitter on with nothing else. Maybe something to mull over.
Got a head start on the car this weekend after some unexpected home alone time.
Finished off the lift setup by building some 18mm risers along each side, anchored to the floor to stop them spinning around when lining the car up. Pretty happy with how it all looks now.
Whilst the car was outside on its wheels (soon to be a rare sight) I got some spraying done just to tidy up the stone chipped sidepods.
Car got a good blasting out on the driveway to minimise how much crud I dump into the garage.
And then finally ready to start work. First job is to get the rear clam off, it's not mandatory for anything I plan to do this winter but it's probably worthwhile just for more convenient access and gives me an opportunity to clean up/fix up a few other areas too.
I found rear clam removal much less stressful than the front, purely because there's not really any other bodywork you risk bashing into. With doors open and roof off, there's no real risk of scraping down some other bodywork. Took a little over an hour, but I wasted 20mins with extension upon extension and an endoscope rather than just removing the passenger seat and fixing it in 5mins flat.
Access is great, there are a few bits of preventative maintenance I can do now, but I won't go mad since I know how easy it is to get the clam off - it'll be no big deal to do it again in the future.
Some items for my list:
Rear nimbus has taken a beating from the 2bular backbox. I've got a spare sheet so I'll knock some repair patches together.
Suspension/wishbone refurb was on the agenda for "if I can be bothered", but I might bump it up a bit - a couple of my bushes are starting to wander out a little bit. Potentially causing contact with the subframe under load.
Aside from that, I've got some gearbox goodies hopefully tricking in over the next few weeks and I'm going to take my supercharger off for inspection. Since finding 2 of its 3 brackets were missing and/or broken I'm doubting the quality of its install somewhat - so would like to give it all a once over.
Finished off the lift setup by building some 18mm risers along each side, anchored to the floor to stop them spinning around when lining the car up. Pretty happy with how it all looks now.
Whilst the car was outside on its wheels (soon to be a rare sight) I got some spraying done just to tidy up the stone chipped sidepods.
Car got a good blasting out on the driveway to minimise how much crud I dump into the garage.
And then finally ready to start work. First job is to get the rear clam off, it's not mandatory for anything I plan to do this winter but it's probably worthwhile just for more convenient access and gives me an opportunity to clean up/fix up a few other areas too.
I found rear clam removal much less stressful than the front, purely because there's not really any other bodywork you risk bashing into. With doors open and roof off, there's no real risk of scraping down some other bodywork. Took a little over an hour, but I wasted 20mins with extension upon extension and an endoscope rather than just removing the passenger seat and fixing it in 5mins flat.
Access is great, there are a few bits of preventative maintenance I can do now, but I won't go mad since I know how easy it is to get the clam off - it'll be no big deal to do it again in the future.
Some items for my list:
Rear nimbus has taken a beating from the 2bular backbox. I've got a spare sheet so I'll knock some repair patches together.
Suspension/wishbone refurb was on the agenda for "if I can be bothered", but I might bump it up a bit - a couple of my bushes are starting to wander out a little bit. Potentially causing contact with the subframe under load.
Aside from that, I've got some gearbox goodies hopefully tricking in over the next few weeks and I'm going to take my supercharger off for inspection. Since finding 2 of its 3 brackets were missing and/or broken I'm doubting the quality of its install somewhat - so would like to give it all a once over.
I managed to make some progress over the festive period. One of the benefits of the lift is that I can just go into the garage and immediately be productive, rather than kitting up and rolling around on the floor for 20mins before I actually do anything, so chipping away at the car between baby naps, food binges and crap TV was quite productive.
My main goal (for now) is to get the gearbox out, strictly speaking the rear suspension doesn't need to come off completely but a few bits need undoing for driveshaft clearance. I stripped the suspension down fully anyway as I'll need that later.
No surprises here, done it all before on my Elise but my shiny new impact gun made a couple of awkward bits a piece of cake.
With the gearbox drained of fluid, the driveshafts came out easily enough and then it was a case of going round and ticking off anything that keeps the gearbox attached to the car, or stops the engine from tilting downwards. Off the top of my head this included:
Starter motor
Clutch slave cylinder
Earthing strap
Temp sensor
Shifter cables
Exhaust
Airbox/Intake
All was easily accessible. The clam off made for very comfortable access to the stuff around the top of the box but strictly speaking it would be doable with the clam in place. Personally if I had to do this again (hope not!) I think I'd take the clam off for the sake of an extra hour or so, just to make the job more comfortable.
Three of the four engine mounts are actually connected to the gearbox, so these all had to come off - making for a balancing act with the engine on my trolley jack. Probably safer/better ways to do this but hey ho. Once supported I could undo the three mounts, and then tilt the whole engine/box assembly down towards the passenger/gearbox side of the car. The gearbox pretty much fell off after that - cushioned nicely by my ribcage (not advised) and pulled a coolant hose from the bottom of the throttlebody on its way down, meaning I was trapped under the car with a gearbox on top of me - getting a face full of coolant until I could organise myself again.
I need to re-arrange things for reinstallation as my trolley jack is blocking the path for any kind of transmission jack to get in, and there's no way I'm manhandling the box back into position. I'm thinking of rotating the jack around, and having a go with a borrowed motorcycle jack to start with. If that doesn't work I may consider borrowing/buying an engine crane to free up my trolley jack but hopefully it doesn't come to that.
Gearbox will be going off to a specialist soon, still a couple of bits left to source then I can crack on with other stuff.
My main goal (for now) is to get the gearbox out, strictly speaking the rear suspension doesn't need to come off completely but a few bits need undoing for driveshaft clearance. I stripped the suspension down fully anyway as I'll need that later.
No surprises here, done it all before on my Elise but my shiny new impact gun made a couple of awkward bits a piece of cake.
With the gearbox drained of fluid, the driveshafts came out easily enough and then it was a case of going round and ticking off anything that keeps the gearbox attached to the car, or stops the engine from tilting downwards. Off the top of my head this included:
Starter motor
Clutch slave cylinder
Earthing strap
Temp sensor
Shifter cables
Exhaust
Airbox/Intake
All was easily accessible. The clam off made for very comfortable access to the stuff around the top of the box but strictly speaking it would be doable with the clam in place. Personally if I had to do this again (hope not!) I think I'd take the clam off for the sake of an extra hour or so, just to make the job more comfortable.
Three of the four engine mounts are actually connected to the gearbox, so these all had to come off - making for a balancing act with the engine on my trolley jack. Probably safer/better ways to do this but hey ho. Once supported I could undo the three mounts, and then tilt the whole engine/box assembly down towards the passenger/gearbox side of the car. The gearbox pretty much fell off after that - cushioned nicely by my ribcage (not advised) and pulled a coolant hose from the bottom of the throttlebody on its way down, meaning I was trapped under the car with a gearbox on top of me - getting a face full of coolant until I could organise myself again.
I need to re-arrange things for reinstallation as my trolley jack is blocking the path for any kind of transmission jack to get in, and there's no way I'm manhandling the box back into position. I'm thinking of rotating the jack around, and having a go with a borrowed motorcycle jack to start with. If that doesn't work I may consider borrowing/buying an engine crane to free up my trolley jack but hopefully it doesn't come to that.
Gearbox will be going off to a specialist soon, still a couple of bits left to source then I can crack on with other stuff.
I did find (another) broken supercharger support bracket whilst I was digging around.
This is in addition to the broken bracket I found earlier this year:
and also in addition to the fact the alternator was never connected to the SC nose bracket that I resolved a few months back:
What the significance of these parts are I don't know, I never noticed any of them until taking enough stuff off the car to make the issues visually obvious. Car had it SC replaced back in 2012 so my best guess is that whoever refitted it neglected to bolt the nose bracket up properly, and the subsequent vibrations or twisting motion has snapped the other two brackets. That would have left the SC (and it's associated movement) held in place just by the inlet manifold alone. I'll add it to the list, but I'll remove the supercharger completely - check everything and then bolt it back together properly.
This is in addition to the broken bracket I found earlier this year:
and also in addition to the fact the alternator was never connected to the SC nose bracket that I resolved a few months back:
What the significance of these parts are I don't know, I never noticed any of them until taking enough stuff off the car to make the issues visually obvious. Car had it SC replaced back in 2012 so my best guess is that whoever refitted it neglected to bolt the nose bracket up properly, and the subsequent vibrations or twisting motion has snapped the other two brackets. That would have left the SC (and it's associated movement) held in place just by the inlet manifold alone. I'll add it to the list, but I'll remove the supercharger completely - check everything and then bolt it back together properly.
That lift setup looks brilliant for a home setup, very jealous. Enjoy this thread (met you at Blyton a few months back) and I've just found your previous thread as I'm getting very Elise-curious going into 2021
Nice work though. That fabricated SC bracket looks like it could do with a bit more material around the 'foot' to prevent the heat affected area around the weld running right to the edge of the material.
Nice work though. That fabricated SC bracket looks like it could do with a bit more material around the 'foot' to prevent the heat affected area around the weld running right to the edge of the material.
snotrag said:
That lift setup looks brilliant for a home setup, very jealous. Enjoy this thread (met you at Blyton a few months back) and I've just found your previous thread as I'm getting very Elise-curious going into 2021
Nice work though. That fabricated SC bracket looks like it could do with a bit more material around the 'foot' to prevent the heat affected area around the weld running right to the edge of the material.
Yeah I'm enjoying it, felt a bit like expensive folly to start with and until I got comfortable parking the car over it properly - I was starting to think it was more trouble than it's worth but the ramps I've made up each side make it loads easier and it's already coming into its own with the work done so far.Nice work though. That fabricated SC bracket looks like it could do with a bit more material around the 'foot' to prevent the heat affected area around the weld running right to the edge of the material.
Glad you're enjoying the thread, I can't speak highly enough of the Elise platform - in most cases it's going to be a very cheap way to go trackdaying if you've got the initial purchase price available, as even tracked examples are unlikely to lose money providing you keep them somewhere near tidy. This thread is probably making them look like total money pits but everything is self inflicted and just part of upgrade-itis for me. Many people run standard cars for years and years and only ever service/MOT them.
I plan to drop the bracket off with a welder, it doesn't need to look pretty so might talk about doubling up the thickness of the base and just blobbing it up with weld. Apparently the inlet manifold bolts/studs are known for cracking off on this engine even in good conditions, so having an unsupported SC flailing around on it too can't have helped, so that's something to check later.
With the gearbox out, I could look at my clutch/flywheel assemblies and see if I could justify some of the costs of all this work by finding a badly worn item or two...
Nope, both barely look used. Damn! Pretty impressive though considering it's just the standard Celica 190bhp clutch running almost 100bhp more in a track car with sticky tyres.
Eh well, it would be daft to do all this work without changing the clutch at least and I do quite like the idea of trying a slightly lighter flywheel, ever since I did some steady driving in a Cup 260 and felt the difference.
I bought a new clutch and flywheel a while ago, I just need to go collect when I get time (and lockdown depending) and my gearbox guy is booked for the week of the 11th so we're pretty much on hold at the back of the car for now.
Plan is to get the front suspension dismantled now and figure out a plan for that lot.
Finally past the point of no return with the gearbox and I've sent it off for rebuild.
I've been back and forth on this more times than I care to count, should I run it to destruction (if ever?) and fix it then, or be proactive and try to use it as an exercise to optimise performance a bit more? The big sticking point was the diff, I really wanted to try one in my car and I just couldn't justify the cost and effort of install without doing the strengthening stuff whilst at it.
Obviously I decided to go ahead, still not sure if it's the right decision or what - hopefully I've not ruined the car and hopefully it rewards me with years of happy motoring and trackdaying... we shall see.
I opted for the following 'upgrades':
SSC 3rd and 4th gears, same ratio as standard - just chunkier, and still helical so hopefully not too noisy. 3rd and 4th are a known weakpoint in the standard C64 box and generally are the first things to go running about 260bhp (but not unheard of beneath that either)
Kaaz 4.8 Final Drive (FD also a weak point after gears are changed...)
Longer 6th gear from a Corolla
TRD LSD from an MR2
Added to that I've got a Stage 2 clutch and lightweight (4.5kg) flywheel from Competition Clutch:
What I've calculated to end up with looks something like the following:
Effective wheel torque should be +10%ish through gears 1-5. At most circuits I go to regularly I'm at the very top of fourth and usually short shifting into 5th just to give me breathing room coming into the braking zone. I expect to be using more of 5th now, and hardly any of 2nd (if at all). The change I don't think is too extreme, it was very tempting to go all in on a very short box using either Kaaz gearset or a 5.0 FD with stock gears but ultimately I leaned towards a more conservative setup.
The diff I know is a controversial topic, I don't think there's a clear right or wrong answer for the Elise platform so I just need to try it myself. Fingers crossed...
Gearbox is with a local specialist (http://www.stephenbreargearboxes.co.uk/) who do a lot of Toyota stuff and I have a few first hand reviews of their work in Lotus circles too so hoping for a top job.
Jury is still out on gearbox cooling, from the temps I logged last year I'm not convinced my stint lengths would benefit from one, but I shall continue to log temps and I will of course add one if needed as the new gears may generate more heat just through altered tolerances etc.
Suspension is also off to Chris @ Type116 Motorsport for Zinc plating, I'll topcoat it with something (probably POR15 clear) when they get back.
I've been back and forth on this more times than I care to count, should I run it to destruction (if ever?) and fix it then, or be proactive and try to use it as an exercise to optimise performance a bit more? The big sticking point was the diff, I really wanted to try one in my car and I just couldn't justify the cost and effort of install without doing the strengthening stuff whilst at it.
Obviously I decided to go ahead, still not sure if it's the right decision or what - hopefully I've not ruined the car and hopefully it rewards me with years of happy motoring and trackdaying... we shall see.
I opted for the following 'upgrades':
SSC 3rd and 4th gears, same ratio as standard - just chunkier, and still helical so hopefully not too noisy. 3rd and 4th are a known weakpoint in the standard C64 box and generally are the first things to go running about 260bhp (but not unheard of beneath that either)
Kaaz 4.8 Final Drive (FD also a weak point after gears are changed...)
Longer 6th gear from a Corolla
TRD LSD from an MR2
Added to that I've got a Stage 2 clutch and lightweight (4.5kg) flywheel from Competition Clutch:
What I've calculated to end up with looks something like the following:
Effective wheel torque should be +10%ish through gears 1-5. At most circuits I go to regularly I'm at the very top of fourth and usually short shifting into 5th just to give me breathing room coming into the braking zone. I expect to be using more of 5th now, and hardly any of 2nd (if at all). The change I don't think is too extreme, it was very tempting to go all in on a very short box using either Kaaz gearset or a 5.0 FD with stock gears but ultimately I leaned towards a more conservative setup.
The diff I know is a controversial topic, I don't think there's a clear right or wrong answer for the Elise platform so I just need to try it myself. Fingers crossed...
Gearbox is with a local specialist (http://www.stephenbreargearboxes.co.uk/) who do a lot of Toyota stuff and I have a few first hand reviews of their work in Lotus circles too so hoping for a top job.
Jury is still out on gearbox cooling, from the temps I logged last year I'm not convinced my stint lengths would benefit from one, but I shall continue to log temps and I will of course add one if needed as the new gears may generate more heat just through altered tolerances etc.
Suspension is also off to Chris @ Type116 Motorsport for Zinc plating, I'll topcoat it with something (probably POR15 clear) when they get back.
Great work Fonzey.
I'd say the LSD and lightweight flywheel changes you're making to the drivetrain will make a big difference to the way the car feels. I also think, based on what you've said, that you made the right choice on the gearbox ratios, I have the close ratio 6 speed box in my Caterham and it can sometimes feel bit too short on some of the faster UK tracks so it's definitely possible to go too far. I like the idea of your 'overdrive' 6th too, my 7 is screaming it's nuts off if I ever have to go on a motorway
Keep the updates coming
I'd say the LSD and lightweight flywheel changes you're making to the drivetrain will make a big difference to the way the car feels. I also think, based on what you've said, that you made the right choice on the gearbox ratios, I have the close ratio 6 speed box in my Caterham and it can sometimes feel bit too short on some of the faster UK tracks so it's definitely possible to go too far. I like the idea of your 'overdrive' 6th too, my 7 is screaming it's nuts off if I ever have to go on a motorway
Keep the updates coming
AndrewGP said:
Great work Fonzey.
I'd say the LSD and lightweight flywheel changes you're making to the drivetrain will make a big difference to the way the car feels. I also think, based on what you've said, that you made the right choice on the gearbox ratios, I have the close ratio 6 speed box in my Caterham and it can sometimes feel bit too short on some of the faster UK tracks so it's definitely possible to go too far. I like the idea of your 'overdrive' 6th too, my 7 is screaming it's nuts off if I ever have to go on a motorway
Keep the updates coming
Cheers Andrew, yeah I wanted to maintain some road manners hence avoiding straight cut stuff in the box and also going to the effort of putting the longer 6th in. It's a bit of a Frankenstein box so hopefully I've done my research properly and it all actually fits together I'd say the LSD and lightweight flywheel changes you're making to the drivetrain will make a big difference to the way the car feels. I also think, based on what you've said, that you made the right choice on the gearbox ratios, I have the close ratio 6 speed box in my Caterham and it can sometimes feel bit too short on some of the faster UK tracks so it's definitely possible to go too far. I like the idea of your 'overdrive' 6th too, my 7 is screaming it's nuts off if I ever have to go on a motorway
Keep the updates coming
Still hoping the change to 4.8 won't be underwhelming, 5.0 options are available too but they're 50% more expensive so I did compromise a little bit, but I'm sure it'll still be noticeable!
Stephen Brear & Co turned the gearbox around crazy fast. I think I dropped it off Friday afternoon and it was done before Monday lunch time. I was delayed picking it up due to work etc, then Leeds got snowed in - but eventually I could make the trip and collect the box.
They did say it was a nightmare to strip down, no fault of the box - it was just "one of those jobs". All of the hardware came out of it looking mint, there's no evidence of wear and tear in the box at all which I guess should be a good thing, but I was half-hoping they'd uncover some justification for doing all of this.
Back at home, the clutch wasn't even in yet. I'd bolted the flywheel up with new ARP bolts but I was waiting for some new pressure plate bolts from Toyota. I'm pretty sure the old ones can be re-used, but I'd ordered some new ones anyway... they were just taking ages. I also ordered a new throw out bearing for the clutch from Toyota. The clutch kit included one, but I've heard of enough stories of pattern part bearings grumbling after a few miles, so better safe than sorry.
The 2ZZ isn't like other clutch setups I've been exposed to (not many) in that the input shaft doesn't sit home in some sort of bushing or spigot bearing, it's just "floating". That means there's nothing in the flywheel/crank for an alignment tool to sit in. The clutch kit included a 2-piece alignment tool that gave you a plastic bush to push into the crank, which would then need to stay there for the life of the clutch. I also had a generic "align from the front" tool so I opted to use that instead, so I didn't have to leave any plastic inside (even though I'm sure it's fine).
I'm fairly certain I got it lined up perfectly central using this, but after I bolted the clutch up it failed the eyeball test... it didn't look particularly well centred... so I ended up slackening off and adjusting it by eye anyway. Eh well.
Onto this morning, I was up early so I got the box all cleaned up and fitted the fork/bearing etc ready for fitting.
Once we got to a socially acceptable hour, I borrowed the hands of my helpful neighbour Geoff (and his motorbike jack) and we made an effort to refit the box. With the subframe in place, the box needed to go up on a 90degree tilt and then once up "inside" the subframe we could orientate it properly but not quite reach the appropriate height with the motorbike jack.
In the end we had an engine crane to tilt the engine, as it was easier than tilting the box. The motorbike jack got the box high enough then we 2-man lifted it from there. I Was a bit nervous about my eyeballed clutch alignment but it went straight on! All bolts screwed in easily by hand, result.
Getting the box onto it's proper mount was a huge weight lifted (pun intended?) as the engine being sat on a floor jack was a constant source of anxiety.
For some reason I'm convinced that I'm not home dry yet, I seem to to have it in my head that the clutch engagement/disengagement won't work. No idea why I think that, just lack of experience and an expectancy that I've cocked something up... I've hooked the slave cylinder back up, clutch pedal is actuating the fork and it feels fine... but I just can't test it properly until driveshafts/oil/suspension is back etc.
On the topic of suspension, I had a disappointing discovery on my coilovers. These were pretty expensive a year ago, have done very limited mileage between lockdowns and winters in 2020 but the coating on the springs has had it.
All four springs are the same, but helpers seemed fine, and the shock bodies are mint. I know its not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things but after what I spent, I was expecting a premium product to last at least a couple of years. Nitron were willing to sell me replacement springs at a discount, but informed me warranty wouldn't cover this. Disappointing, but I opted to get them powdercoated locally rather than send Nitron more money and maybe only get another 6 months out of them?!
I reset everything back to my previous rideheight, and they're now looking much better. I'm not sure how long this powdercoat finish will last, but it was cheap enough to redo it as needed (if needed).
Powdercoaters also sorted out some other bits and bats, roll bar supports for example.
Progress.
They did say it was a nightmare to strip down, no fault of the box - it was just "one of those jobs". All of the hardware came out of it looking mint, there's no evidence of wear and tear in the box at all which I guess should be a good thing, but I was half-hoping they'd uncover some justification for doing all of this.
Back at home, the clutch wasn't even in yet. I'd bolted the flywheel up with new ARP bolts but I was waiting for some new pressure plate bolts from Toyota. I'm pretty sure the old ones can be re-used, but I'd ordered some new ones anyway... they were just taking ages. I also ordered a new throw out bearing for the clutch from Toyota. The clutch kit included one, but I've heard of enough stories of pattern part bearings grumbling after a few miles, so better safe than sorry.
The 2ZZ isn't like other clutch setups I've been exposed to (not many) in that the input shaft doesn't sit home in some sort of bushing or spigot bearing, it's just "floating". That means there's nothing in the flywheel/crank for an alignment tool to sit in. The clutch kit included a 2-piece alignment tool that gave you a plastic bush to push into the crank, which would then need to stay there for the life of the clutch. I also had a generic "align from the front" tool so I opted to use that instead, so I didn't have to leave any plastic inside (even though I'm sure it's fine).
I'm fairly certain I got it lined up perfectly central using this, but after I bolted the clutch up it failed the eyeball test... it didn't look particularly well centred... so I ended up slackening off and adjusting it by eye anyway. Eh well.
Onto this morning, I was up early so I got the box all cleaned up and fitted the fork/bearing etc ready for fitting.
Once we got to a socially acceptable hour, I borrowed the hands of my helpful neighbour Geoff (and his motorbike jack) and we made an effort to refit the box. With the subframe in place, the box needed to go up on a 90degree tilt and then once up "inside" the subframe we could orientate it properly but not quite reach the appropriate height with the motorbike jack.
In the end we had an engine crane to tilt the engine, as it was easier than tilting the box. The motorbike jack got the box high enough then we 2-man lifted it from there. I Was a bit nervous about my eyeballed clutch alignment but it went straight on! All bolts screwed in easily by hand, result.
Getting the box onto it's proper mount was a huge weight lifted (pun intended?) as the engine being sat on a floor jack was a constant source of anxiety.
For some reason I'm convinced that I'm not home dry yet, I seem to to have it in my head that the clutch engagement/disengagement won't work. No idea why I think that, just lack of experience and an expectancy that I've cocked something up... I've hooked the slave cylinder back up, clutch pedal is actuating the fork and it feels fine... but I just can't test it properly until driveshafts/oil/suspension is back etc.
On the topic of suspension, I had a disappointing discovery on my coilovers. These were pretty expensive a year ago, have done very limited mileage between lockdowns and winters in 2020 but the coating on the springs has had it.
All four springs are the same, but helpers seemed fine, and the shock bodies are mint. I know its not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things but after what I spent, I was expecting a premium product to last at least a couple of years. Nitron were willing to sell me replacement springs at a discount, but informed me warranty wouldn't cover this. Disappointing, but I opted to get them powdercoated locally rather than send Nitron more money and maybe only get another 6 months out of them?!
I reset everything back to my previous rideheight, and they're now looking much better. I'm not sure how long this powdercoat finish will last, but it was cheap enough to redo it as needed (if needed).
Powdercoaters also sorted out some other bits and bats, roll bar supports for example.
Progress.
Edited by Fonzey on Sunday 17th January 15:57
Interesting about the gearbox not engaging with the crankshaft via a bearing. I assume that's for manufacturing reasons but it does seem a bit strange. Sounds like the box will be nice and strong now!
I've very jealous that you can pick and choose your ratios and final drive. I'd love that flexibility with my 996 as the gear ratios are the one thing that annoys me about the car.
I've very jealous that you can pick and choose your ratios and final drive. I'd love that flexibility with my 996 as the gear ratios are the one thing that annoys me about the car.
wevster said:
Impressive 
Cheers, just nuts and bolts really Tiggers said:
Epic work, Fonzey
Do you happen to know what colour code the powder coaters used for the blue on the springs? I've got some Nitrons on my Caterham and want to get the springs re-powder coated if possible and want to do it in the same colour if possible
Cheers
I did know, he told me - but I've totally forgot. I might be able to get it out of him on Monday. I'll give him a ring and find out.Do you happen to know what colour code the powder coaters used for the blue on the springs? I've got some Nitrons on my Caterham and want to get the springs re-powder coated if possible and want to do it in the same colour if possible
Cheers
shalmaneser said:
Interesting about the gearbox not engaging with the crankshaft via a bearing. I assume that's for manufacturing reasons but it does seem a bit strange. Sounds like the box will be nice and strong now!
I've very jealous that you can pick and choose your ratios and final drive. I'd love that flexibility with my 996 as the gear ratios are the one thing that annoys me about the car.
Yeah the "floating" input shaft I guess is odd, I wonder if that has something to contribute towards the inherent weaknesses of the C60 box once you start pushing the power. You'd think with the shaft not being anchored that there are slight cantilever forces on the shaft, which could add towards various other things to lead to gear failures.I've very jealous that you can pick and choose your ratios and final drive. I'd love that flexibility with my 996 as the gear ratios are the one thing that annoys me about the car.
My box should in theory now be safe for any reasonable power that I go for, but nothing is guaranteed so I won't go mad, and will continue to drive it with respect etc. At least if I do have a failure, I can consider myself unfortunate whereas previously I was fortunate to avoid issues.
Really looking forward to the new ratios and diff, adding those bits helped me justify the cost and effort of so much preventative maintenance.
I'm graduating now from bolting on parts to master fabrication.
Heatshield to numberplate plinth bolts had worn through the heatshield, I'd stuck some repair washers in when I first bought the car but thought I could do something a bit nicer that will last a bit longer.
Got a few other updates ready to compile but I have about 3 different jobs 80% done so will wait till they're done before writing them up. Gearbox is almost completely buttoned up now, cables are in, starter is in, various brackets/bolts done up - just waiting on driveshafts and fluids really.
Been tinkering away at other bits, little stuff like painting up the new hubs to slow down the rust/grot a bit:
The Nitron saga is now concluded, Nitron agreed to cover the costs of my powdercoating - initially I took the gesture and was happy to just write it off based on the aggro of obtaining an invoice from a backstreet powdercoater and claiming, but then we came to an alternate arrangement - a couple of my locking rings were chewed up by what looks like an attempt to force an allen key in rather than the correct tool when I had my geo done... so a new set of lock rings was sent out FOC. Happy days, problem resolved.
Heatshield to numberplate plinth bolts had worn through the heatshield, I'd stuck some repair washers in when I first bought the car but thought I could do something a bit nicer that will last a bit longer.
Got a few other updates ready to compile but I have about 3 different jobs 80% done so will wait till they're done before writing them up. Gearbox is almost completely buttoned up now, cables are in, starter is in, various brackets/bolts done up - just waiting on driveshafts and fluids really.
Been tinkering away at other bits, little stuff like painting up the new hubs to slow down the rust/grot a bit:
The Nitron saga is now concluded, Nitron agreed to cover the costs of my powdercoating - initially I took the gesture and was happy to just write it off based on the aggro of obtaining an invoice from a backstreet powdercoater and claiming, but then we came to an alternate arrangement - a couple of my locking rings were chewed up by what looks like an attempt to force an allen key in rather than the correct tool when I had my geo done... so a new set of lock rings was sent out FOC. Happy days, problem resolved.
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