The Range Racer
Discussion
PugwasHDJ80 said:
Loving this- i've always wanted to enter comp safari in standard class with something like this.
Playing devils advocate but aren't you going to have issues with using air suspension?
when it lowers the car, effectively its taking all the air out of the spring and making it nice and soft- lowering the car right down. Not ideal when you are tryin got reduce roll.
If super extend mode with the suspension jacked up you might find you have much less roll than having the suspension dropped.
A good question, put simply, the opposite is true.Playing devils advocate but aren't you going to have issues with using air suspension?
when it lowers the car, effectively its taking all the air out of the spring and making it nice and soft- lowering the car right down. Not ideal when you are tryin got reduce roll.
If super extend mode with the suspension jacked up you might find you have much less roll than having the suspension dropped.
Very simplistically, the pressure in the spring is just force (car weight), divided area (pie * spring radius ^ 2). So doesn't significantly change between ride heights. What changes is the volume of air.
Spring rate or stiffness is a function of (Pressure / Volume) * area. So when the range racer is lower, it has similar pressure & area and less volume, so its slightly stiffer.
The reality is the affects of this are relatively small, where we really have gained stiffness is though the spring aids (called bump stops in the old days). Its affectively a 2nd spring in parallel with the air spring which gets stiffer the more you compress it. These have a gap or an amount of wheel travel towards the body before it engages (in our case, aprox 40mm).
By lowering the range racer 75mm ish, we are now well into contact with the spring aid significantly increasing our total wheel rate / stiffness (we guess we have doubled it.)
Our problems are now damping, the amount of damping should be proportional to the level of spring stiffness. We have doubled our spring stiffness and have standard damping so currently its MASSIVELY under damped, hence very bouncy!
Anyway thats future charlie, ryan & simone's problem, for now we are enjoying bouncing around with very little roll!
Yesterday was a big day! We past the point of no return, we really cant go back now.
Weight stripping day one, we started from the rear of the car and worked our way forward to just behind the front seats. Quite a productive evening too, its so much quicker to take a car apart when you don't have to worry about remembering so you can put it back together.
Think we must have removed upwards of 150kg.
Things gone so far:
Tail gate trim
Spare wheel & jack etc
Infotainment ECUs and CD & DVD changers
Subwoofer & lots of speakers
Door cards, speaks and NVH foam
Rear seats
Parcel shelf
Loads of NVH foam
Whats it like? (from a short drive home at 10pm)
Its a lot more like a race car, lots of road noises & is a lot more agile! Feels significantly quicker already, most noticeable though corners, that air suspension compressor in the middle of the boot floor is very noisy when running!! Very much looking forward to driving it once more of the weight has gone.
Things left in the rear end:
Rear wiper motor & reversing camera
Door window motors
Lots of now unused wiring.
Roof lining
Next step is really to track down some bucket seats so we can start stripping the front end, we shall see what we can find.
Think we will also get a couple of buckets for the rear. Although you cant take rear passengers on track, it seems a shame to have such a big track car with only 2 seats. It will be fun to be about to go out on the road with 4 people.
Weight stripping day one, we started from the rear of the car and worked our way forward to just behind the front seats. Quite a productive evening too, its so much quicker to take a car apart when you don't have to worry about remembering so you can put it back together.
Think we must have removed upwards of 150kg.
Things gone so far:
Tail gate trim
Spare wheel & jack etc
Infotainment ECUs and CD & DVD changers
Subwoofer & lots of speakers
Door cards, speaks and NVH foam
Rear seats
Parcel shelf
Loads of NVH foam
Whats it like? (from a short drive home at 10pm)
Its a lot more like a race car, lots of road noises & is a lot more agile! Feels significantly quicker already, most noticeable though corners, that air suspension compressor in the middle of the boot floor is very noisy when running!! Very much looking forward to driving it once more of the weight has gone.
Things left in the rear end:
Rear wiper motor & reversing camera
Door window motors
Lots of now unused wiring.
Roof lining
Next step is really to track down some bucket seats so we can start stripping the front end, we shall see what we can find.
Think we will also get a couple of buckets for the rear. Although you cant take rear passengers on track, it seems a shame to have such a big track car with only 2 seats. It will be fun to be about to go out on the road with 4 people.
M4CK 1 said:
Yes. I meant to say 1 seat alone. 
.
By the time you've taken all the weight you might need to lower it again.
We are expecting about 30kg a front seat, the rear bench is 58kg! . By the time you've taken all the weight you might need to lower it again.
Luckily there is no need to redo the ride height while we still have air! it auto leveled itself as soon as we fired it up!
WOW, readers car of the week! we didn't see that coming. Thanks for the interest all.
A mini update, new stickers!
We have tracked down some bucket seat mounts for the range (thanks to pistonheads forums) so we should have them soon. Currently working hard on tracking down some seats so we can star stripping down the rest of the inside.
We have also had a little more luck this week, turns out the steering wheel spline is the same as an e46 BMW! WIN WIN, this should make it much easier to get something more track suited as there really is nothing for L322's.
Ryan is going to take a look at the charge cooler pump tomorrow to see if it is wired the wrong way round, this may be our first step towards more reliable power.
And here is a reminder of just how low this thing is now! + one of where we have got to with the inside. It’s just entertaining to look at!
A mini update, new stickers!
We have tracked down some bucket seat mounts for the range (thanks to pistonheads forums) so we should have them soon. Currently working hard on tracking down some seats so we can star stripping down the rest of the inside.
We have also had a little more luck this week, turns out the steering wheel spline is the same as an e46 BMW! WIN WIN, this should make it much easier to get something more track suited as there really is nothing for L322's.
Ryan is going to take a look at the charge cooler pump tomorrow to see if it is wired the wrong way round, this may be our first step towards more reliable power.
And here is a reminder of just how low this thing is now! + one of where we have got to with the inside. It’s just entertaining to look at!
bigmowley said:
Excellent thread, madness at its best.
Just a bit surprised at the wheel choice, those BMW alloys weigh a tonne and its all unsprung mass bouncing around at the end of some fairly ropey suspension arms and bushes. Surely a better choice would be the smallest wheels that go over the brakes, I am thinking 18" is the smallest standard wheel size. A set of steelies would cost buttons and could be widened for whatever tyre footprint you feel you need, plus there is a massive choice of tyres including slicks available at 18". In addition the height drop would be more and the drop in gearing more which is all good methinks.
Great work
Bookmarked
A fine point, one we are still pondering on ourselves, I'm sure these wheels are a stop gap in the long run.Just a bit surprised at the wheel choice, those BMW alloys weigh a tonne and its all unsprung mass bouncing around at the end of some fairly ropey suspension arms and bushes. Surely a better choice would be the smallest wheels that go over the brakes, I am thinking 18" is the smallest standard wheel size. A set of steelies would cost buttons and could be widened for whatever tyre footprint you feel you need, plus there is a massive choice of tyres including slicks available at 18". In addition the height drop would be more and the drop in gearing more which is all good methinks.
Great work
Bookmarked
We are playing a balancing game between Tyre OD (gearing) and side wall height (roll stiffness).
The way i see it, we have 3 options:
- Small wheels & large tyres - good for weight, good for top speed, bad the acceleration, bad for roll, no sports tyres around!
- Small wheels & small tyres - great for weight, bad for top speed, good for acceleration, good for roll, lots of tyre choice + may give us clearance issues with brakes.
- Large wheels & medium OD tyres - bad for weight, good for top speed, good for acceleration, good for roll, good tyre choice, no clearance issues + Looks swag!
For now we have chosen the latter, but ideally we can find some affordable but lighter weight performance wheels & we can get Toyo Proxes R888R in 315/30 20" which would be a 7% gearing reduction which seems like a good ish compromise!
As you can see, our brakes are on the large side! not sure anything below 19" would fit anyway.
itsallyellow said:
Once you have this sorted we need to arrange a track day together,
Spent all of this year turning my Bowler Tomcatt into a track toy.
Spent all of this year turning my Bowler Tomcatt into a track toy.
V8 FOU said:
I think there will have to be a challenge with my Bentley turbo R!
It is now down to c1800kg, courtesy of a carbon fibre roof!
This will be the track day to end all track days!!!It is now down to c1800kg, courtesy of a carbon fibre roof!
Saxo being overtaken by a bowler tomcatt, bentley turbo R & range rover in convoy!
Edited by charlie-5mkmt on Saturday 12th January 19:25
Hi all!
Ryan has been busy today looking into our supercharger cooling issues!
First check was to see if our charge cooler pump was wired the wrong way round. (pins in the connecter plug the wrong way round)
Turns out it is! This car has done 170k miles with the charge cooling pump flowing in the wrong direction. Anyway, thats now rewired so we are hoping it can handle a little more abuse next time she on track!
While he was under there he has also cleaned out the intake and reset the throttle body. Also removed a big heavy engine NVH cover.
Already feels faster with a shaper throttle, Result!
We also got our new wheel today so hopefully we can get this fitted at the same time as the front interior strip (after we finally track down some cheap bucket seats). Hoping to get some time to work on it this week and then Ryan and Simone are planning on getting some more interesting video footage next weekend, lots to come!
We promise we will look into side exhausts! The public has spoken.
Ryan has been busy today looking into our supercharger cooling issues!
First check was to see if our charge cooler pump was wired the wrong way round. (pins in the connecter plug the wrong way round)
Turns out it is! This car has done 170k miles with the charge cooling pump flowing in the wrong direction. Anyway, thats now rewired so we are hoping it can handle a little more abuse next time she on track!
While he was under there he has also cleaned out the intake and reset the throttle body. Also removed a big heavy engine NVH cover.
Already feels faster with a shaper throttle, Result!
We also got our new wheel today so hopefully we can get this fitted at the same time as the front interior strip (after we finally track down some cheap bucket seats). Hoping to get some time to work on it this week and then Ryan and Simone are planning on getting some more interesting video footage next weekend, lots to come!
We promise we will look into side exhausts! The public has spoken.
Wow, thanks for all the comments, this thread has exploded since we were on the homepage over the weekend.
We have ordered some bucket seats!! only some cheap ones from ebay, we shall put them in the front soon, they will at become our rear seats once we find something more premium for the front.
Here is some of our thoughts:
As for the big HVAC debate of 2019, we are yet to decide, lots of good points either side, I think for now we shall just put it to the bottom of our “to remove” list and decide later. There is somewhere between 10 and 35kgs to be had depending on how much of the system is removed.
With the suspension, would a better and simpler solution not be an IID tool? You could just have a race setting and a standard setting, drive to the track, lower the normal ride height to the desired level, swap it back afterwards?We might look into this in future but our main focus here was cost, by linking the air sus relay to a switch we have almost all of the benefits for £1.99! We haven’t spoke much on here regarding budget but our intent is to keep this as low as possible! We are at aprox £4.5k overall so far inc our new seats.
We have ordered some bucket seats!! only some cheap ones from ebay, we shall put them in the front soon, they will at become our rear seats once we find something more premium for the front.
Here is some of our thoughts:
As for the big HVAC debate of 2019, we are yet to decide, lots of good points either side, I think for now we shall just put it to the bottom of our “to remove” list and decide later. There is somewhere between 10 and 35kgs to be had depending on how much of the system is removed.
gj88 said:
With the suspension, would a better and simpler solution not be an IID tool? You could just have a race setting and a standard setting, drive to the track, lower the normal ride height to the desired level, swap it back afterwards?
British Beef said:
I would have thought this project lends itself more to a rally special, seeing one of these kicking up dirt on a welsh rally stage spitting flames would be a wonderful spectacle !!!!!
Maybe one day, we only need some different wheels and tyres and a suspension lift and we shall be ready!SHutchinson said:
Do you rate the Ryobi Impact wrench? Thinking of adding one to the tool collection.
Im very happy with it, by no means am I a mechanic but it seems to have loads of torque and it was nice and cheap!lukeharding said:
also thinking of attending the JEC day at Brands in Feb - would be great to see the Range Racer there too.
Sadly I think its unlikely we will make brans in feb but we are still planning on a track day in march at some point and we will make sure we bring it along to some piston heads events in the near future!Tyre Smoke said:
I have also fitted driled and vented discs and currently am running EBC pads all round, but have used Pagid in the past, much improved over standard. I've also decatted the exhaust, and sleeved the boxes, had a remap to remove the Lambda readings and up the power and torque. The Supercharger pulley upgrade helps massively as does fitting a K+N filter to aid breathing. In general, removing anything that hinders the breathing of this engine has improved things massively.
Thanks for the advice here! Great to know there is some power to be had once we have finished adding lightness!Hey all!
We have been too quiet for a little while now. While I've been off skiing Ryan and Simone have been doing some great work!
We have managed to track down some HUGE 6 pot brembos from the later range rover, looking forward to fitting these and seeing much more stopping power we have.
They chaps have also been very busy stripping the rest of the cabin, headlining, dash, centre console it's all gone! Also have our new wheel in, e46 bmw wheel boss fits like a dream! (Yet another benefit of our car being developed under BMW ownership).
They gents even had time to cut off the tow bar and surrounding steel work.
Our bucket seat mounts should arrive this werk, as soon as we get them in we will go get the "lighter" beast weighed in post fat camp.
We have been too quiet for a little while now. While I've been off skiing Ryan and Simone have been doing some great work!
We have managed to track down some HUGE 6 pot brembos from the later range rover, looking forward to fitting these and seeing much more stopping power we have.
They chaps have also been very busy stripping the rest of the cabin, headlining, dash, centre console it's all gone! Also have our new wheel in, e46 bmw wheel boss fits like a dream! (Yet another benefit of our car being developed under BMW ownership).
They gents even had time to cut off the tow bar and surrounding steel work.
Our bucket seat mounts should arrive this werk, as soon as we get them in we will go get the "lighter" beast weighed in post fat camp.
Edited by charlie-5mkmt on Monday 21st January 18:16
sinbaddio said:
You've inspired me - I never thought so much car was available for so little money. I couldn't find an s/c one, but collected an '05 FFRR 4.4 V8 yesterday, so now got a P38 4.6 and an L322 4.4!
Couldn't agree more! Looks great, There is no better value out there in my opinion, we are seriously tempted to get one as a daily, maybe even use it as a tow car for the range racer?ntiz said:
What’s the plan for the gearbox?
Did this generation have paddles? Could you replace the current torque converter for something else lighter and more sporting?
Sadly it didn't have paddles, not thought too much about it so far, it does have a sequential mode but the gear Leaver is the wrong way round (currently push forward to change up). So we might try to rewire that at some point.Did this generation have paddles? Could you replace the current torque converter for something else lighter and more sporting?
fred bloggs said:
I didn't know Bedford was all downhill ? As engineers surely you can work out no circuit is harder on brakes than another, unless you never need to slow down. Silverstone has some much larger braking zones.
Unfortunately the other chaps are correct, brakes are converting kinetic energy into heat. Simplicity, Kinetic energy = 0.5 x mass x speed squared
As the speed is squared it has by far the biggest factor.
I.e. Circuits that have lots braking from high speeds are hardest on the brakes by far.
Usget said:
This thread is pretty interesting. Suggests that an S-Type V6 diesel box can be made to fit to the AJV8 (albeit the 4.0) without too much fettling. Obviously that doesn't take account of the 4wd system but hey, who needs 4wd 
https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/xk8-xkr-x100-17...
Thanks for this! Im sure we will look into it at some point!https://www.jaguarforums.com/forum/xk8-xkr-x100-17...
HughG said:
Great effort, what is the thinking with the rear buckets? Do tracks even let you take more than 1 passenger?
We want to keep it road legal to take to car shows and just generally enjoy and being able to go out with all 3 of us is a plus. It would also be nice to take some people out for passenger rides and finally, I believe you are aloud rear passengers at the ring….I’m sure we will end up there one day.Jammez said:
OP what's the thoughts on ditching the air suspension completely and going over to coils?
I know a lot of the classic RR's that had air we're often converted to coils. I'm in the process of putting my old one back to air and there's a significant amount of weight in the tank, valve block & pump so I can imagine in an L322 there's probably even more weight to be saved as the struts themselves must also weight a fair bit.
Im sure we will go there at some point, but for now air is the cheap and easy option to get the car low. Our challenge is to find a coil set up that’s low (ideally without just cutting springs), X5 front coil overs look like they might fit with minimum modification and would allow us to tune damping and spring rates but we might have to think a little harder about the rear.I know a lot of the classic RR's that had air we're often converted to coils. I'm in the process of putting my old one back to air and there's a significant amount of weight in the tank, valve block & pump so I can imagine in an L322 there's probably even more weight to be saved as the struts themselves must also weight a fair bit.
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