ListerBell Stratos
Discussion
So, a small update.
One of the small delays in my car coming together has been the fact that LB have been making new moulds for the bodywork. That timing has been a bit frustrating but the end result will be well worth the wait and the finish will be perfect. I'm also going for the "square arch" bodywork that was used on the later Group 4 rally cars and this is the last one of the 3 styles of bodywork to be reworked.
The 3 body styles were the Stradale or Street version:
The Group 4 "round arch" version
Group 4 "square arch" version
I think that back in the day, the rally cars all stated off with the GP4 round arch bodywork which came from a different mould than that used for the Stradale body. As time progressed and the bodywork of the rally cars suffered from the inevitable damage it became easier and cheaper for teams and privateers to take the standard rear Stradale bodywork from the original production line and simply convert it to wide body rally use by whacking on the arch extensions to accommodate the wider track and wheels.
Interestingly (well, perhaps interestingly) the car I'm replicating is Pinto's Number 4 car from the 1977 Tour de Corse which ran with the square arches while the sister car driven by Sandro Munari, car number 1, ran in the same rally with round arches. I always liked the more brutal rear look of the square arch cars.
Anyhow... progress pics or things taking shape...
This month, the rolling chassis and engine package heads down to the tuner in Norfolk to be mapped on the rolling road which should be a major milestone. Also, after that and once the central bodywork section is fitted the car can head off to the trimmers to have the cabin trimmed.
It's all coming together.
One of the small delays in my car coming together has been the fact that LB have been making new moulds for the bodywork. That timing has been a bit frustrating but the end result will be well worth the wait and the finish will be perfect. I'm also going for the "square arch" bodywork that was used on the later Group 4 rally cars and this is the last one of the 3 styles of bodywork to be reworked.
The 3 body styles were the Stradale or Street version:
The Group 4 "round arch" version
Group 4 "square arch" version
I think that back in the day, the rally cars all stated off with the GP4 round arch bodywork which came from a different mould than that used for the Stradale body. As time progressed and the bodywork of the rally cars suffered from the inevitable damage it became easier and cheaper for teams and privateers to take the standard rear Stradale bodywork from the original production line and simply convert it to wide body rally use by whacking on the arch extensions to accommodate the wider track and wheels.
Interestingly (well, perhaps interestingly) the car I'm replicating is Pinto's Number 4 car from the 1977 Tour de Corse which ran with the square arches while the sister car driven by Sandro Munari, car number 1, ran in the same rally with round arches. I always liked the more brutal rear look of the square arch cars.
Anyhow... progress pics or things taking shape...
This month, the rolling chassis and engine package heads down to the tuner in Norfolk to be mapped on the rolling road which should be a major milestone. Also, after that and once the central bodywork section is fitted the car can head off to the trimmers to have the cabin trimmed.
It's all coming together.
Another update. It's all getting a bit more exciting now. Lots of progress over the past few weeks but it's mainly been detail stuff and sorting out the wiring loom and electrics.
The car is off to SCS Delta for a week to be mapped on the rolling road. I did zoom into one of the pics showing the dash and can see that that there's a label and switch for "sports mode" where the plan is to have a selectable map for pops and bangs and maybe even flames
Hopefully more pics and video soon from the mapping sessions. Vroom Vroom
The car is off to SCS Delta for a week to be mapped on the rolling road. I did zoom into one of the pics showing the dash and can see that that there's a label and switch for "sports mode" where the plan is to have a selectable map for pops and bangs and maybe even flames
Hopefully more pics and video soon from the mapping sessions. Vroom Vroom
200Plus Club said:
pingu393 said:
I'm sure that it is ok, but I'd want to reinforce the front damper top mounts.
I suspect you won't need to do so on a LB kit knowing how well Craig designs and builds Keeping it pointed in a straight(ish) line might be another matter.
Both fabulous examples of what they are.
Not exactly comparing apples with apples but none the less you could buy both of them and still have half a million quid change from an original https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C788348 so you can see the appeal.
Not exactly comparing apples with apples but none the less you could buy both of them and still have half a million quid change from an original https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C788348 so you can see the appeal.
And so it continues....
The car has been down at the rolling road being set up and that's still ongoing. However, one of the things that was important to me from the outset in this build was to have some sort of additional variable / switchable engine mapping to give a rally mode or "hoodlum" mode so I could get the full-on pops / bangs / flames etc that you'd associate with a GP4 Stratos, Obviously I suspect it will be in "normal" mode most of the time but hey... it's good to have a wild side
I got a short taster video at gentle revs of rally mode. It should be stonking at 7000rpm on full chat .... when I drive it to Tescos
Which should hopefully translate into this on the road...
The car has been down at the rolling road being set up and that's still ongoing. However, one of the things that was important to me from the outset in this build was to have some sort of additional variable / switchable engine mapping to give a rally mode or "hoodlum" mode so I could get the full-on pops / bangs / flames etc that you'd associate with a GP4 Stratos, Obviously I suspect it will be in "normal" mode most of the time but hey... it's good to have a wild side
I got a short taster video at gentle revs of rally mode. It should be stonking at 7000rpm on full chat .... when I drive it to Tescos
Which should hopefully translate into this on the road...
Edited by renmure on Sunday 23 August 17:54
200Plus Club said:
Who is mapping it for you?
Beyond cool...
:-)
SCS-Delta (https://www.scs-delta.co.uk/) who supplied the ECU and all the engine control stuffBeyond cool...
:-)
alfabeat said:
Absolutely fantastic. Well done. What's the rough completion date now?
The body is complete and ready to be fitted then it's off to the trimmers then IVA test in an IVA friendly state .... then all the rally stuff (dash, wings, spoiler, fog lights, light pod etc) needs to be fitted, then painted Alitalia scheme, then the bespoke '77 Tour de Corse decals then....err... that's it.Before Christmas maybe? Give or take a bit
I believe the answer is yes with one of the main objectives of the LB chassis and suspension setup being to bring a degree of better control to the handling.
From the LB website:
All of these developments have helped to eliminate some of the notoriety associated with the driving experience of an original Stratos and the STR has become a much more predictable and neutral car which you can drive briskly without fear of the rear end overtaking you mid corner. The STR is equally at home whether it is being used as a fast road GT car or as a track day fun car.
There's a few folk on the owners sites who have driven both and are really complementary about how less of a wild handful the STR is near the limits.
From the LB website:
All of these developments have helped to eliminate some of the notoriety associated with the driving experience of an original Stratos and the STR has become a much more predictable and neutral car which you can drive briskly without fear of the rear end overtaking you mid corner. The STR is equally at home whether it is being used as a fast road GT car or as a track day fun car.
There's a few folk on the owners sites who have driven both and are really complementary about how less of a wild handful the STR is near the limits.
A brief update... so a12hr round trip to catch up with everyone to see and hear the car as it's progressing. Crikey.. it looks ace. I even sat in it and made proper vroom vroom noises using the accelerator. It was a bit intimidating actually!! It also felt odd sitting in the wrong side. Cool... but odd.
Anyhow.... Nice Ass!!
Nice Asses!! An original.... and mine
It sounds ace as well!! I took a few videos clips but most of them were spoiled by the sound of me cackling like an excited schoolboy so this one will have to do. My little iPhone was struggling to film the flames shooting out the back. Fortunately my wife has a better camera on her phone so when I get the car home I'll get her to stand up close and get some proper video of it. Being honest, the real life sound is far, far better than the video.
Video Link: ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iur3bi6wePQ
I've got some info graphs and paperwork to shuffle through but the feedback from the rolling road was all really positive.
In terms of numbers we're looking at 296.3 BHP with the rev limiter set to 7200rpm
However that's with the engine mapped for standard unleaded 95 RON fuel so there's a bit more to be had with Super Unleaded or the higher octane stuff like V-Power at 99 RON. Being Scottish and tight fisted I opted for standard fuel for the initial set-up.
That's also using the standard Alfa GTA cams on the engine which I'm led to believe are, relatively speaking, fairly mild. At the moment I'm minded to wait till the car is registered and on the road and then fit some slightly wilder re-profiled fast-road Piper cams before taking it home which should bump things up by another 15-20BHP. I'll take advice from LB on that but we did chat about it and there was an instant appeal to me. I know it's all pub-talk in terms of numbers and I'll hardly ever drive it in anger but at the moment it's a positive thought that I think I'd need to be talked out of. Relatively speaking it's not that expensive to do and fits in with my mental image of how I want the car to be.
It would then need to go back to SCS be re-mapped. It would have bodywork and airbox fitted at that time and if I'm feeling flush might do that with V-Power.
I'm also going to get the exhaust manifolds camcoated or perhaps a ceramic zircotec coating I'm not sure if there would be temperature issues in the STR or not but it's easier to do it now than later and I'll probably get them done when the car is away being trimmed.
Anyhow.... Nice Ass!!
Nice Asses!! An original.... and mine
It sounds ace as well!! I took a few videos clips but most of them were spoiled by the sound of me cackling like an excited schoolboy so this one will have to do. My little iPhone was struggling to film the flames shooting out the back. Fortunately my wife has a better camera on her phone so when I get the car home I'll get her to stand up close and get some proper video of it. Being honest, the real life sound is far, far better than the video.
Video Link: ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iur3bi6wePQ
I've got some info graphs and paperwork to shuffle through but the feedback from the rolling road was all really positive.
In terms of numbers we're looking at 296.3 BHP with the rev limiter set to 7200rpm
However that's with the engine mapped for standard unleaded 95 RON fuel so there's a bit more to be had with Super Unleaded or the higher octane stuff like V-Power at 99 RON. Being Scottish and tight fisted I opted for standard fuel for the initial set-up.
That's also using the standard Alfa GTA cams on the engine which I'm led to believe are, relatively speaking, fairly mild. At the moment I'm minded to wait till the car is registered and on the road and then fit some slightly wilder re-profiled fast-road Piper cams before taking it home which should bump things up by another 15-20BHP. I'll take advice from LB on that but we did chat about it and there was an instant appeal to me. I know it's all pub-talk in terms of numbers and I'll hardly ever drive it in anger but at the moment it's a positive thought that I think I'd need to be talked out of. Relatively speaking it's not that expensive to do and fits in with my mental image of how I want the car to be.
It would then need to go back to SCS be re-mapped. It would have bodywork and airbox fitted at that time and if I'm feeling flush might do that with V-Power.
I'm also going to get the exhaust manifolds camcoated or perhaps a ceramic zircotec coating I'm not sure if there would be temperature issues in the STR or not but it's easier to do it now than later and I'll probably get them done when the car is away being trimmed.
Edited by renmure on Thursday 17th October 21:51
shirt said:
looks great. why did you choose LHD?
The 492 originals were all LHD. The GP4 car I'm looking to base mine on was LHD so an easy decision.The LB chassis is built to accommodate both LHD and RHD from the outset so if / when I sell the car it's not a major job to convert it to RHD if needs be.
MC Bodge said:
You must be spending quite a few quid on this car so a couple of extra quid on a tank of fuel isn't going to be that significant, surely?
I'd be going for the fast road/track cams now too.
Great car, by the way.
Oh, if I was advising anyone else I'd be saying the same as you. I don't need much encouraging I'd be going for the fast road/track cams now too.
Great car, by the way.
But it makes sense to get through the IVA test as straight forwardly as possible I guess, so the cams can wait till after that and I'll see if I can get my head around all these extra few pennies per gallon on the way to the tuners.
Again, my lack of technical nouse may be obvious here but I know that I've spec'd the Laminova heat exchanger option from the LB options list and also the upgrade to the competition spec alloy radiator on my car, both of which I think should help with temp issues. Not sure what you have on yours.
I've been lucky with my Ultima that I've not had issues with cavitation from fuel in the system boiling but it is a fairly common problem for many owners. Some folk have re-plumbed and upgraded the fuel system but there's loads of people used zircotec coating on the manifolds or exhaust wrapping or camcoat and in all the cases I can think of they have solved the cavitation problem using one of these methods so in terms of fixing heat issues they all seem to be good enough.
For me, the wrapping looks a bit rough and almost too "race-car" like. Being Scottish, I like the fact that the camcoat is about half the price of the zircotec and that probably seals it for me but I will get a quote for the Zircotec and weigh things up. There's a wider choice of colour with zircotec but as much as I'd like red, or gold I'm going to go with functional black so that levels the playing field.
I've not read of anyone saying that they've experienced heat issues with a Stratos kit, and I have asked, but I'm not sure if that's because there are relatively few cars on the road and not everyone is shouting on the internet or if it's because the systems may be working hard but they cope well enough. Being a non-techie sort I just look and think there's a lot of hot stuff in a small place so trying to mitigate any issues beforehand seems sensible....... oh, and black will look cool, just like the original rally cars
I've been lucky with my Ultima that I've not had issues with cavitation from fuel in the system boiling but it is a fairly common problem for many owners. Some folk have re-plumbed and upgraded the fuel system but there's loads of people used zircotec coating on the manifolds or exhaust wrapping or camcoat and in all the cases I can think of they have solved the cavitation problem using one of these methods so in terms of fixing heat issues they all seem to be good enough.
For me, the wrapping looks a bit rough and almost too "race-car" like. Being Scottish, I like the fact that the camcoat is about half the price of the zircotec and that probably seals it for me but I will get a quote for the Zircotec and weigh things up. There's a wider choice of colour with zircotec but as much as I'd like red, or gold I'm going to go with functional black so that levels the playing field.
I've not read of anyone saying that they've experienced heat issues with a Stratos kit, and I have asked, but I'm not sure if that's because there are relatively few cars on the road and not everyone is shouting on the internet or if it's because the systems may be working hard but they cope well enough. Being a non-techie sort I just look and think there's a lot of hot stuff in a small place so trying to mitigate any issues beforehand seems sensible....... oh, and black will look cool, just like the original rally cars
Edited by renmure on Thursday 17th October 21:52
456mgt said:
Craig had seen this post mate so answered straight away when I emailed him earlier today, Sunday! His top suggestion is to fit an auxilliary electric water pump. You have one fitted to your car. It's a Davies Craig unit and this is an excerpt from their website:
When the engine is hot and idling, the mechanical pump will be moving coolant at about 15 litres per minute, while the EWP will kick in with up to an extra 150 litres per minute, and so dump a huge amount of heat. If you upgrade from the switch to our digital controller being wired to the battery, on hot shut down, the fans and EWP will run for about half a minute and wash out heat which will protect the head gasket and other components from excessive heat damage
Thanks. That certainly seems to be a neat solution. When the engine is hot and idling, the mechanical pump will be moving coolant at about 15 litres per minute, while the EWP will kick in with up to an extra 150 litres per minute, and so dump a huge amount of heat. If you upgrade from the switch to our digital controller being wired to the battery, on hot shut down, the fans and EWP will run for about half a minute and wash out heat which will protect the head gasket and other components from excessive heat damage
456mgt said:
By the way, I'm hugely impressed by how freely Craig from ListerBell provides technical support. Blown away actually, as I am by the finished product.
He told me he never reads Pistonheads. I better go back and edit all the bad bits and criticisms 
I agree tho, the whole product really is on a different level isn't it.
Do you still have any plans to modify or convert your car to a different spec or have you settled into what you've got now?
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