The return of my E60 M5 - Wallet drained - now Supercharged!

[J4CKO]

Trouble is with a "cheap hack" you still have to buy, tax, insure, maintain and MOT it.

That buys a lot of fuel, or at least the difference between the cheap hack and the M5's consumption, I know M5's are heavy on fuel (understatement) and something else would be better but unless you get a diesel its not going to be a mega saving which wont actually cover the cost of the other car.

We have a Citroen C1 whilst I had various stuff that was heavy on fuel, needy or sometimes I just needed something small, but that was there for the kids to lean in and use, it was cheap to run but it still cost six grand to buy, VED was £20 and insurance £200 ish, it did 40 plus to the gallon so was for example about twice as efficient as my CLS.

But, if it doesnt work on a cost basis, is it you feeling a bit wary of the M5 and its tendency to throw big bills, or not wanting to run the miles up ? At the end of the day they're not hugely valuable in the scheme of things (yet) is your mileage really going to knock the value ?

[TheAngryDog]

Escy said:

Does the money spent on the engine re-build factor into your thinking? I guess it soured the ownership at the time, have you moved passed it or do you maybe resent it, loss of faith in it, etc?

A little yes. I have moved past it, don't resent it, have faith in the car.

Escy said:

I can imagine the only way most people can justify an engine re-build that's over half the value of the car tends to be they think they'll get their money's worth out of it in terms of usage by keeping the car long term.

I've had the car 3 years, been able to use it pretty much exclusively for the last 2 (June 19th is the date I picked it up). The things I have learned about it in the last few years are that I wouldn't have done it based on what I know now and that I only did it because I'd only had it 4 months at the time of failure. I also didn't expect it to cost quite so much, but some factors were outside the control of the proper engine builder.

Do I regret it? A little.

Escy said:

I see loads of 996 / 997 that have 10k rebuilds, often on a car that's advertised for 15k so it's a disaster financially. They are often selling after only a couple of thousand miles since doing it, seems to be common.

As above, it's been 2 years for me and around 14k miles.

Escy said:

As a kid I remember my old man paying for engine re-builds and selling the cars shortly after. Think the cost of the work pissed him off and he wanted the cars gone.

I personally think you should keep it, it's lovely. Got to be one of the best examples with the work done.

The cost pissed me off, but I was happy to have the car back, knowing that mechanically it was well sorted. So far one of the best examples out there though, I think it is far from it sadly, and would require several more thousands of pounds spending on it to get it somewhere in the region off, in terms of work done, rather than mods done, if that makes sense?

d_a_n1979 said:

TheAngryDog said:

Escy said:

I follow this thread, you seem to talk about getting rid of it in every other update you post. I don't know why you continue to pile money into it if your heart isn't in it. Might be time to just cut your losses and move on?

I'm indecisive over the car, I really am. It annoys me something chronic that I can't just make a decision. I suffer with anxiety (counseling starts on Wednesday) and I think my inability to make a decision over it may be party responsible, but who knows?

Personally I think you still love the car and the indecisiveness is in what you'd replace it with...

IMO keep it; you're invested into it, you know its ins and outs; stick with it and enjoy it for what it is... A V10, a true M car and a rarity on our roads!

I'm not sure I love it, there's only been a handful of cars that I have done, one of them being my first car and second being my first Cosworth.

Re the indecisiveness, I think you're right. There are so many cars that I would like to own, but my worry is two fold. Would the new car be better? Will I be just throwing more money away?

Regarding the rarity, it's an interesting one as I don't class the E60 M5 as rare, but on a trip to Eastbourne on Sunday I saw more Ferrari's and Lamborghini's than I did E60 M5's. I only saw one M5, and that was my own

J4CKO said:

If its affecting your mental health, maybe it is time to move it on.

It isn't, I just have mental health issues which affects my decisions about the car.

J4CKO said:

I have been here, I bought a Fiat Coupe Turbo when I shouldn't have really, small kids, only me working and not really enough money coming in (not saying thats you btw) The car turned out to be a wrongun and the dealer tucked me up on the "warranty", used to lose sleep over it, it caused arguments with the wife and eventually I had to sell it at a loss as it needed significant engine work. I used to dread driving it and seeing the oil pressure dwindling used to set my pulse going. Honestly it was a headfk from start to finish.

I don't lose sleep over mine thankfully.

J4CKO said:

Suppose if you drive an M5 you might get folk wanting to try it on, similar happens to me in a bright red noisy Fiesta, red rag to a bull.

I would expect that in my case, it would be the ST that would be doing the trying on!

J4CKO said:

I was looking at M4's and 911's and really, if I am honest though I could afford to buy one I wouldn't have been comfortable with that much potential for agro, explaining a 10/12 grand Hartech bill to the wife for a rebuild on a 997 wasnt top of my fun things to do list Any car can throw big bills up, I will be four grand into this bloody Fiesta by the end of the month, but its on my terms, I can afford that and if it breaks I crack the spanners out, cant really diy an engine rebuild in a 997, I know when I am beaten, but I am pretty sure I could swap a Fiesta engine over.

This is the thing for me, I am over £30k into the M5, that would have been a nice payment towards something exotic, but as it is I am where I am, and I will never see most of that money back. The E60 M5 market is improving, but I think that is true of most second hand cars, I don't think it is unique to the M5.

J4CKO said:

We already have her car but got a diesel auto Golf coming and I will use that if I want quiet and sensible.

I want quiet and sensible, but I always go for something that is neither

MDifficult said:

Everything about the last few pages of this thread tell me you need to get shot of it.

One way or another, getting out of it will give you what you need. Either you'll find a new car that'll reignite your passion a bit, without the risk of bankrupting you. Or, you'll step out of the 'enthusiast' car market for a bit, get something mundane, and that'll help calm your mind and help you work out what you DO want.

Or lastly, if you sell it and, after 6 months you realise you really miss it and it's all you want in the world, you can commit fully to spending the time on finding another one that's exactly how you want it, and buy it, safe in the knowledge that you're doing the right thing and it's fully worth the investment. It's not like they're rocking-horse-sh@t rare yet.

Cars are an expensive commitment. Old M-cars especially. If you're not getting something major from that commitment, get out. Mental health is priceless.

EDIT: If you can, you need to completely forget what you've got invested in it. That's probably what's paralysing you. It's worth what it's worth, not what you've put into it (time, emotional or financial).

I would never buy another E60 M5. I did this with an E39 M5 and it never felt the same. I still feel like I have unfinished business with the E60, but time will tell. I need to really work out what I want, but I won't be making a rash decision. I've written off its costs and just rationalised as a yearly upkeep cost (instead of it costing me £13k to fix in 2019, it's cost me £x over 3 years). It's worth more than a car that hasn't had the preventative work done, but it's not worth what I have spent on it, I know that 100%.

Pommy said:

TheAngryDog said:

I still like the car, I think I am the problem rather than the car, if that makes sense?

To the other posters who posted about it, I'll respond when I am sat in front of a computer tomorrow as typing long essays on a phone sucks! Lol

That's an admirable admission.

If the issue is you not the car then changing it will fix the situation, in fact could make it a lot worse.

Perhaps its time to reconcile what you love about it and try to fixate on that

You may have a point. Food for thought.

Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:

My thoughts. A fellow anxiety sufferer, as I'm sure you know. Anxiety will make you indecisive, and will constantly make you feel angst (the clue is in the name of the illness)

My thoughts, to help you rationalise things. Write a list, pros in one column, and cons in another. All of them. Score each one 1-10, on how big a pro or con it is. Add up the scores, if pro comes out higher keep, if cons do get shot. At least then you can rationalise it with facts rather than split emotions.

I did do this, but against another car rather than just this car. I should definitely do this though.

J4CKO said:

Trouble is with a "cheap hack" you still have to buy, tax, insure, maintain and MOT it.

That buys a lot of fuel, or at least the difference between the cheap hack and the M5's consumption, I know M5's are heavy on fuel (understatement) and something else would be better but unless you get a diesel its not going to be a mega saving which wont actually cover the cost of the other car.

We have a Citroen C1 whilst I had various stuff that was heavy on fuel, needy or sometimes I just needed something small, but that was there for the kids to lean in and use, it was cheap to run but it still cost six grand to buy, VED was £20 and insurance £200 ish, it did 40 plus to the gallon so was for example about twice as efficient as my CLS.

But, if it doesnt work on a cost basis, is it you feeling a bit wary of the M5 and its tendency to throw big bills, or not wanting to run the miles up ? At the end of the day they're not hugely valuable in the scheme of things (yet) is your mileage really going to knock the value ?

I get your point, totally makes sense. The thing for me is that the more I use the M5, the less special it feels. I had this with my Cossie, I was dailying it and it stopped feeling special. I got a 2nd car and used that as a daily and the Cossie regained it specialness pretty quickly.

My car is at 92k miles, 100k seems to be the kicker, but it's not low mileage so I don't see 100k having much of an effect on its perceived value. I'd like to use it less. It's due a service in 4k, after only having had one 2 weeks ago, so at its current rate I'll be getting it serviced in a few months. Soon adds up.

Things to think about.

[The Voice]

From my experience, when you start feeling this way about a car, that’s it. You can try and rationalise why it’s better to keep it etc, why you love it so getting rid of it would be madness, but it doesn’t work. The seed has been planted.

In your situation, I think I would sell the M5 now whilst the market is strong. Write off the lost cash, it’s been a life experience. And buy something cheap and sensible for a bit to give you some breathing space.

[Dr Jekyll]

Toss a coin, heads to sell tails to keep. When the coin is in mid air you'll know which way you want it to come down.

[TheAngryDog]

Small update.

I had the discs and pads changed all round a few weeks ago as I knew they were getting close to their limit and who doesn't like fresh brakes? No pics as we all know what new discs and pads look like.

I had a re trimmed steering wheel fitted by Royal Steering Wheels last Wednesday (was already ordered) as the original one was looking tired.

Old:



During:



New:



Much better, and is a bit chunkier too. It has the LCI nappa leather on it.

Also on Wednesday the A/C decided it wanted a recharge. Typically this was a very, very hot day as well. This was booked in and done on Friday.

A few pics recently. 1 from Caffeine and Machine from last Wednesday and 2 from a local Bucks Cars and Coffee meet.

[d_a_n1979]

Lovely Steering wheel looks spot on

[Gallons Per Mile]

I've got a Royal Steering Wheels special on my car too, in alcantara. Luckily I didn't have to pay for it as the previous owner did it. Yours looks spot on

[Court_S]

Wheel looks good. I really like their work, can’t fault the various bits they’ve done for me.

[therusterman]

New wheel looks smart, where was the cars and coffee? Would of come along if I knew about it.

[LanceRS]

It was at the Railway Centre at Quainton, just outside Aylesbury. I think that it was organised on Farcebook, Fortunately a friend let me know about it.

[TheAngryDog]

Thanks all.

The Cars and Coffee meet has a page on Facebook - Bucks Cars and Coffee.

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

TheAngryDog said:

Small update.

I had a re trimmed steering wheel fitted by Royal Steering Wheels last Wednesday (was already ordered) as the original one was looking tired.

Much better, and is a bit chunkier too. It has the LCI nappa leather on it.

Looking nice. Just a tip, with it being (or was...) my trade. Nappa is a very fine leather with minimal pigment. Accordingly over time salt from sweat off your hands can damage the pigment, then grease will get in to the leather (and you know the lengths it takes to shift that!) Accordingly apply a bit of leather protection cream (I've always recommended LTT's) and give it a wipe with a leather cleaner or at least wet cloth now and again to clean it.

Nappa is also, as an aside, sheep rather than cow skin!

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:

Nappa is also, as an aside, sheep rather than cow skin!

You learn something new every day.

[TheAngryDog]

Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:

Looking nice. Just a tip, with it being (or was...) my trade. Nappa is a very fine leather with minimal pigment. Accordingly over time salt from sweat off your hands can damage the pigment, then grease will get in to the leather (and you know the lengths it takes to shift that!) Accordingly apply a bit of leather protection cream (I've always recommended LTT's) and give it a wipe with a leather cleaner or at least wet cloth now and again to clean it.

Nappa is also, as an aside, sheep rather than cow skin!

Cheers, I will get some bought.

In other news, I am possibly going car shopping this weekend.

[Court_S]

TheAngryDog said:

Cheers, I will get some bought.

In other news, I am possibly going car shopping this weekend.

What’s on the list? Still not sure about hanging onto this?

[TheAngryDog]

Court_S said:

TheAngryDog said:

Cheers, I will get some bought.

In other news, I am possibly going car shopping this weekend.

What’s on the list? Still not sure about hanging onto this?

I still cannot get the F10 M5 idea out of my head, so it's at the top of the list.

[Court_S]

TheAngryDog said:

I still cannot get the F10 M5 idea out of my head, so it's at the top of the list.

I guess the only way to do so is drive one and either buy one or scrap the idea.

What are the prices like a the mo? Have they gone nuts like most stuff or stayed stable? At one point they looked like cracking value for money.

[Welshbeef]

https://youtu.be/OMk-GHmokGs

From carwow on the E61 M5 vs a 440i.

[TheAngryDog]

Welshbeef said:

https://youtu.be/OMk-GHmokGs

From carwow on the E61 M5 vs a 440i.

I saw. That M5 was poorly.

[TheAngryDog]

Court_S said:

TheAngryDog said:

I still cannot get the F10 M5 idea out of my head, so it's at the top of the list.

I guess the only way to do so is drive one and either buy one or scrap the idea.

What are the prices like a the mo? Have they gone nuts like most stuff or stayed stable? At one point they looked like cracking value for money.

Yeah that is my plan. Prices haven't really been affected it seems.