Hold(en) my beer - Monaro, Ute and Commodore content
Discussion
Yeah I really didn't realise how much better the pedal feel was. I just assumed assisted brakes either felt kind of squidgy or they were wildly over assisted so if you breathed at them you headbutted the dash and that was that 😂
I procrastinated tonight and had dinner first, then felt too fat to do any car stuff, and so my progress this evening has been unbolting the gearstick
It's really awkward getting the bottom bolt back in, and I've not touched the stick to adapter bolts as they're bloody allen heads. Once it was off I thought I'd try and get those allen bolts out to replace them... Turns out not that I have a proper allen bit for the ratchet, they came out easily and would have been much easier
Also unplugged the starter wiring, turns out the spade connector I 'crimped' on wasn't much of a crimp, so will tidy that up before it goes back together. This picture was more just for my own reference but there you go.
Looks like Titan Motorsports sell the liners for about £1,000, obviously have to then pay duty and tax so will take a kicking there, but even though I've not looked inside the engine I'm already putting that money aside in my head as 'spent' and getting excited about the prospect of the 427
No, I won't be getting a bigger cam to take advantage of the extra cubes before you start asking
I procrastinated tonight and had dinner first, then felt too fat to do any car stuff, and so my progress this evening has been unbolting the gearstick
It's really awkward getting the bottom bolt back in, and I've not touched the stick to adapter bolts as they're bloody allen heads. Once it was off I thought I'd try and get those allen bolts out to replace them... Turns out not that I have a proper allen bit for the ratchet, they came out easily and would have been much easier
Also unplugged the starter wiring, turns out the spade connector I 'crimped' on wasn't much of a crimp, so will tidy that up before it goes back together. This picture was more just for my own reference but there you go.
Looks like Titan Motorsports sell the liners for about £1,000, obviously have to then pay duty and tax so will take a kicking there, but even though I've not looked inside the engine I'm already putting that money aside in my head as 'spent' and getting excited about the prospect of the 427
No, I won't be getting a bigger cam to take advantage of the extra cubes before you start asking
motomk said:
Sad to see it has to come out again Sturdy. 
Wasn't paying attention that it only had the 330mm brakes on the front, definitely need those APs on there!
Yeah, even if they had the same stopping power, the difference in pedal feel is a revelation! I'm happy to say that the hydroboost brake assist thing is great now, I wasn't sure if the sWasn't paying attention that it only had the 330mm brakes on the front, definitely need those APs on there!
t pedal was related to that, and it absolutely wasn't, it was my crap brakes Maybe the hydroboost exacerbated the effect, who knows.scottos said:
Shame about the engine but if it's niggling your head then its worth getting it apart so you know for sure whats going on!
If you need someone good who can sleeve a block and hone it up etc then let me know, the competition engine builders i help out at are very good at it.
Yep it's something that's always been in the back of my mind after finding out that strokers ate the skirts, the general worry about the engine's survival has been because of that, and it stopped me doing a recent standing mile event as I still sort of didn't trust the engine, so in reality I'm glad I've now found a definitive 'problem' that I can investigate and fix, whatever that may require.If you need someone good who can sleeve a block and hone it up etc then let me know, the competition engine builders i help out at are very good at it.
Much appreciated, and I may well take you up on that, it's a serious job obviously and knowing it was going to a builder that had done it a lot would be reassuring! As I understand it the factory liners have to be machined out (as they're cast in) and then say the Darton liners pressed in.
Being honest, at this point I'm actually hoping that it is the skirts because that means firstly that it wasn't anything I did wrong as such, so will give me more confidence with the dependability of the rebuild, and secondly because you can bet I'll be going straight to a 427 when it's sleeved
Of course if the bores are OK, I could theoretically just go for a 3.900" stroke so the skirts stay supported in the bores, but come on, paying good money to make the engine smaller just isn't going to happen
Not a heap of progress tonight again, but have unplugged the rest of the loom (gearbox mostly and I'd missed the crank position sensor), taken the starter motor off and drained the oil out / poured half a litre of oil over the floor for good measure.
Interestingly a drop of oil on that starter bolt. May be not a great seal somewhere from when I had the sump off.
Royal Purple is dark purple just for reference, the oil isn't already black after 40 miles
Might as well get my use out of the cheap Chinese tool!
Spark plug tip just for some size context, but these are the chunks in the filter (most of what I could get out anyway) after about 40 miles (naturally with some 7000rpm+ in there of course!)
Bronzey looking chunk on the right there for possible bearing material? :shrug:
None of the bits are remotely magnetic, so assuming it's mostly aluminium.
I also remembered I have a boroscope so had a poke around inside the cylinders, and there's definitely a lot of vertical scratches on the bores. The pistons also look a lot dirtier than I'd expect, but may be an illusion.
When the pistons rock you lose oil control so could be from that.
Looking good for the resleeve I suspect. Have a long weekend coming up so plan is to get the engine out and start investigating, which will be picture heavy
Interestingly a drop of oil on that starter bolt. May be not a great seal somewhere from when I had the sump off.
Royal Purple is dark purple just for reference, the oil isn't already black after 40 miles
Might as well get my use out of the cheap Chinese tool!
Spark plug tip just for some size context, but these are the chunks in the filter (most of what I could get out anyway) after about 40 miles (naturally with some 7000rpm+ in there of course!)
Bronzey looking chunk on the right there for possible bearing material? :shrug:
None of the bits are remotely magnetic, so assuming it's mostly aluminium.
I also remembered I have a boroscope so had a poke around inside the cylinders, and there's definitely a lot of vertical scratches on the bores. The pistons also look a lot dirtier than I'd expect, but may be an illusion.
When the pistons rock you lose oil control so could be from that.
Looking good for the resleeve I suspect. Have a long weekend coming up so plan is to get the engine out and start investigating, which will be picture heavy
Edited by SturdyHSV on Tuesday 23 May 23:17
gweaver said:
Isn't that what Porsche engines look like inside? 
Yes, but sadly I can't badge my efforts 'German Engineering' and charge you £20,000 to fix it wormus said:
Definitely looks like a good decision to take it out. Will be interesting to see what you find in the sump.
It certainly will!Few things I forgot to mention, Ute is booked in for an MOT on Friday afternoon, so will likely chuck the Monaro front brakes on it Friday morning (got new pads on the way and already had new discs ready) just so that I have a backup car. Mostly because I don't want the stick from colleagues if I have 3 cars and none of them are roadworthy
Also booked a weekend ticket at C & M for the Le Mans event they're putting on, which I'm planning to take the Ute to (with tent...!)
So after getting excited / impatient I thought fk it, I'll order some Darton liners just to get the ball rolling. Darton 600-160 are the fancy MID liners they do for LS2 etc.
No longer produced, order cancelled. Balls I thought.
That turned out to be a blessing in disguise, as the dry sleeves are much easier to get installed machining wise compared to the MID (wet) liners, and cheaper. I ended up speaking to Performance Unlimited who are based in York and a UK Darton distributor. They're booked up for months in terms of doing any work, but I'll be getting the sleeves from them. They spoke to Darton for me to find out what the options were etc.
Details are below, just for reference really. The SF and DF are "single flat" and "double flat" which is just to do with the flat edges where the liners siamese up to each other.
P/N BORE O.D O.D 2 WALL LGTH FLANGE FLANGE FLATS APPLICATION
ThicknessDiameter
300-027-SF 4.110 4.325 4.314 0.170 5.800 0.215 4.575 4.398 LS2/3/4/7/L92/LT1/4 4.125 BORE
300-027-DF 4.110 4.325 4.314 0.108 5.800 0.215 4.575 4.398 LS2/3/4/7/L92/LT1/4 4.125 BORE
This is what the 'dry' sleeves look like. For reference they're dry just because the block cylinders are siamesed and there is still metal around the sleeve. With the 'wet' sleeves, so much metal is removed that the sleeves sit within the coolant channels, and so are wet. This does aid with cooling and such, but there is a LOT of material removed.
They're in an LS3 block, but visually very similar, mercilessly stolen from this thread https://www.ls1gto.com/threads/re-sleeving-options...
This is what the MID sleeves look like, can see how much material is removed from the block
Going to speak to Knight Engine Services about it as they're just around the corner from me. Getting ahead of myself a bit perhaps, but want to try and keep the ball rolling as much as possible by doing my reserach in advance.
Some front pads and drop links have arrived for the Ute ahead of its MOT tomorrow, so will jump on that this evening or tomorrow morning depending on how I feel
k it, I'll order some Darton liners just to get the ball rolling. Darton 600-160 are the fancy MID liners they do for LS2 etc.No longer produced, order cancelled. Balls I thought.
That turned out to be a blessing in disguise, as the dry sleeves are much easier to get installed machining wise compared to the MID (wet) liners, and cheaper. I ended up speaking to Performance Unlimited who are based in York and a UK Darton distributor. They're booked up for months in terms of doing any work, but I'll be getting the sleeves from them. They spoke to Darton for me to find out what the options were etc.
Details are below, just for reference really. The SF and DF are "single flat" and "double flat" which is just to do with the flat edges where the liners siamese up to each other.
P/N BORE O.D O.D 2 WALL LGTH FLANGE FLANGE FLATS APPLICATION
ThicknessDiameter
300-027-SF 4.110 4.325 4.314 0.170 5.800 0.215 4.575 4.398 LS2/3/4/7/L92/LT1/4 4.125 BORE
300-027-DF 4.110 4.325 4.314 0.108 5.800 0.215 4.575 4.398 LS2/3/4/7/L92/LT1/4 4.125 BORE
This is what the 'dry' sleeves look like. For reference they're dry just because the block cylinders are siamesed and there is still metal around the sleeve. With the 'wet' sleeves, so much metal is removed that the sleeves sit within the coolant channels, and so are wet. This does aid with cooling and such, but there is a LOT of material removed.
They're in an LS3 block, but visually very similar, mercilessly stolen from this thread https://www.ls1gto.com/threads/re-sleeving-options...
This is what the MID sleeves look like, can see how much material is removed from the block
Going to speak to Knight Engine Services about it as they're just around the corner from me. Getting ahead of myself a bit perhaps, but want to try and keep the ball rolling as much as possible by doing my reserach in advance.
Some front pads and drop links have arrived for the Ute ahead of its MOT tomorrow, so will jump on that this evening or tomorrow morning depending on how I feel
Tackled the Ute brakes as it was still a nice evening out when I got home.
Popped the front end up on axle stands and took the wheels off. Caliper is two bolts as with the Monaro (all mechanically identical at this end)
Looks to be a similar increase in disc size! These fresh DBA 330mm discs weighed 11kg
They look the part though.
Turns out the heat shield is in the way of the caliper so out came the grinder, which I got a bit over zealous with on this side.
Popped new copper washers on the banjo fitting and tightened it all down. Other side much the same, albeit quicker.
Going to bleed the brakes tomorrow, whether it'll be a particularly noticeable improvement I'm not sure as it's still a sliding caliper but the discs and calipers were laying around, so for the sake of buying a set of pads it seemed silly not to give ol' Sheila a little upgrade!
Popped the front end up on axle stands and took the wheels off. Caliper is two bolts as with the Monaro (all mechanically identical at this end)
Looks to be a similar increase in disc size! These fresh DBA 330mm discs weighed 11kg
They look the part though.
Turns out the heat shield is in the way of the caliper so out came the grinder, which I got a bit over zealous with on this side.
Popped new copper washers on the banjo fitting and tightened it all down. Other side much the same, albeit quicker.
Going to bleed the brakes tomorrow, whether it'll be a particularly noticeable improvement I'm not sure as it's still a sliding caliper but the discs and calipers were laying around, so for the sake of buying a set of pads it seemed silly not to give ol' Sheila a little upgrade!
SturdyHSV said:
Not a heap of progress tonight again, but have unplugged the rest of the loom (gearbox mostly and I'd missed the crank position sensor), taken the starter motor off and drained the oil out / poured half a litre of oil over the floor for good measure.
Interestingly a drop of oil on that starter bolt. May be not a great seal somewhere from when I had the sump off.
Royal Purple is dark purple just for reference, the oil isn't already black after 40 miles
Might as well get my use out of the cheap Chinese tool!
Spark plug tip just for some size context, but these are the chunks in the filter (most of what I could get out anyway) after about 40 miles (naturally with some 7000rpm+ in there of course!)
Bronzey looking chunk on the right there for possible bearing material? :shrug:
None of the bits are remotely magnetic, so assuming it's mostly aluminium.
I also remembered I have a boroscope so had a poke around inside the cylinders, and there's definitely a lot of vertical scratches on the bores. The pistons also look a lot dirtier than I'd expect, but may be an illusion.
When the pistons rock you lose oil control so could be from that.
Looking good for the resleeve I suspect. Have a long weekend coming up so plan is to get the engine out and start investigating, which will be picture heavy
Thats a bit of a pisser, looks a little bit like an unhappy ringland? have you been a little mean with the end gaps given your "enthusiastic" use ?Interestingly a drop of oil on that starter bolt. May be not a great seal somewhere from when I had the sump off.
Royal Purple is dark purple just for reference, the oil isn't already black after 40 miles
Might as well get my use out of the cheap Chinese tool!
Spark plug tip just for some size context, but these are the chunks in the filter (most of what I could get out anyway) after about 40 miles (naturally with some 7000rpm+ in there of course!)
Bronzey looking chunk on the right there for possible bearing material? :shrug:
None of the bits are remotely magnetic, so assuming it's mostly aluminium.
I also remembered I have a boroscope so had a poke around inside the cylinders, and there's definitely a lot of vertical scratches on the bores. The pistons also look a lot dirtier than I'd expect, but may be an illusion.
When the pistons rock you lose oil control so could be from that.
Looking good for the resleeve I suspect. Have a long weekend coming up so plan is to get the engine out and start investigating, which will be picture heavy
Edited by SturdyHSV on Tuesday 23 May 23:17
Krikkit said:
That's very disappointing as both of yours should make the cut imho. If it's just full of stuff that's straight from a dealer it's a poor show
It is what it is. Sturdy's may not be running by August, but if it is then it should be there - a home built big V8 that could restart a sun should be on display. It's such a cool car.IainWhy said:
Thats a bit of a pisser, looks a little bit like an unhappy ringland? have you been a little mean with the end gaps given your "enthusiastic" use ?
That's an interesting point and one I'll look in to for sure, I did make a note of what I gapped them to, there'll be plenty of pics once I pull it out over the weekend.Ute failed MOT on a track rod end and drop link (which I was aware was a bit touch and go) so some more work to do there as well. Brakes look good though
It is a bummer about the Reader's Cars thing, obviously feel disappointed as I have put a lot of effort into the thread but meh, if my old Vauxhall isn't good enough so be it, I enjoy it anyway!
Will be interesting to hear how the trip to the machine/engine shop goes! and what those cylinder liners are like!
As for the reader's cars bit well uhh.. my 86 did make it buuuuut I had to decline it as there's no way mine's going to be running again in time
As for the reader's cars bit well uhh.. my 86 did make it buuuuut I had to decline it as there's no way mine's going to be running again in time
Edited by Samjeev on Saturday 27th May 13:10
TheAngryDog said:
SturdyHSV said:
Ooof, didn't make the cut for the reader's cars parking for PH25, they must just be after working cars
I didn't either, despite my car still working and given the interest in my RR thread. Somewhat disappointed.SturdyHSV said:
Ooof, didn't make the cut for the reader's cars parking for PH25, they must just be after working cars
Boooooo!! Would’ve thought the work that’s gone into this, and the relative rarity of your fleet to have counted in your favour. Perhaps they need the room for another Merc or BMW - nobody knows about those… 
Samjeev said:
Will be interesting to hear how the trip to the machine/engine shop goes! and what those cylinder liners are like!
As for the reader's cars bit well uhh.. my 86 did make it buuuuut I had to decline it as there's no way mine's going to be running again in time
It's no surprise yours made it in, quite rightly too, real shame it won't be ready As for the reader's cars bit well uhh.. my 86 did make it buuuuut I had to decline it as there's no way mine's going to be running again in time
cerb4.5lee said:
I'm properly gutted for you both as well.
Cheers Lee, unsure the Monaro would be back together for it after all but could have brought the one time "reader's car of the week" Ute, or the "only one in the country" wagon choices choices! You trading that 370z in for a V8 yet? 
PomBstard said:
Boooooo!! Would’ve thought the work that’s gone into this, and the relative rarity of your fleet to have counted in your favour. Perhaps they need the room for another Merc or BMW - nobody knows about those…
Hehe, they've got to give the public / Instagram what they want let's face it Last bit connecting the drivetrain to the car was the (now braided) clutch flexi line.
I thought I'd be smart and hot glue up some fittings to block the lines off so they didn't leak.
This was a partial success... The hardline on the gearbox was successfully capped off, but the line coming from the reservoir / clutch master was not blocked up by the fitting, so ultimately that just leaked all over my arms / floor etc as per usual
Finally, have a yoke from the T56 I picked up for the Ute, so have sealed up the gearbox with it so that it doesn't dump all of the gearbox oil when I lift it all out.
Bit of lunch and F1 quali and then out it comes
Brace yourself for pictures
Edited by SturdyHSV on Saturday 27th May 14:02
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