“It's just a daily” - Renaultsport Clio 182

“It's just a daily” - Renaultsport Clio 182

Author
Discussion

LetsTryAgain

2,904 posts

73 months

Thursday 4th June 2020
quotequote all
Have you got the 100 piece 1/4” and 3/8” Bluepoint kit by any chance!?
How much is an injector, out of interest?

frayz

Original Poster:

2,629 posts

159 months

Thursday 4th June 2020
quotequote all
LetsTryAgain said:
Have you got the 100 piece 1/4” and 3/8” Bluepoint kit by any chance!?
How much is an injector, out of interest?
Ha, no just my plug sockets are BluePoint, the rest is Snap On collected over many many years. *Holds head in hands at the thought of it all*
Injectors are £134 for a set of 4.

LetsTryAgain

2,904 posts

73 months

Thursday 4th June 2020
quotequote all
frayz said:
Ha, no just my plug sockets are BluePoint, the rest is Snap On collected over many many years. *Holds head in hands at the thought of it all*
Injectors are £134 for a set of 4.
That’s not a bad price at all to be fair.

I’ve won a Snap On BBQ recently.
Probably the least I’m owed considering what I’ve spent with them!

Alias218

1,496 posts

162 months

Thursday 4th June 2020
quotequote all
The age old question: to copper slip the spark plugs or not?

Adding it can cause issues with over-torquing and heat transfer between plug and head, however I imagine in reality the difference is negligible. Personally I don’t, but then I do have a trepidation for when mine are due next year! Hopefully they come out OK.

Looking good though! Wouldn’t know it was on 125k.

frayz

Original Poster:

2,629 posts

159 months

Thursday 4th June 2020
quotequote all
Alias218 said:
The age old question: to copper slip the spark plugs or not?

Adding it can cause issues with over-torquing and heat transfer between plug and head, however I imagine in reality the difference is negligible. Personally I don’t, but then I do have a trepidation for when mine are due next year! Hopefully they come out OK.

Looking good though! Wouldn’t know it was on 125k.
I've been an engine development engineer for 20 years and 11 of those was building prototype engines. I can honestly say I've never had any issue adding a small amount of anti seize to the threads of a spark plug and torqueing them correctly.
Also never even heard of heat transfer issues, and not sure how this would even make a difference unless you dunked the plug in it?

Alias218

1,496 posts

162 months

Thursday 4th June 2020
quotequote all
frayz said:
I've been an engine development engineer for 20 years and 11 of those was building prototype engines. I can honestly say I've never had any issue adding a small amount of anti seize to the threads of a spark plug and torqueing them correctly.
Also never even heard of heat transfer issues, and not sure how this would even make a difference unless you dunked the plug in it?
As I say, probably little in it to be honest. I’m just aware of two camps who staunchly stand by their own method. It’s just an interesting insight given your experience in BB and frankly I’ll probably add it to mine next time for the sake of ease. No criticism meant.

Edit: just to add to the discussion (note points 1 and 4) -

https://ngksparkplugs.com/en/resources/5-things-yo...

As mentioned, there is some heated debate within the car community as to the actual real-world effects, though I suspect the reality is that most people, like yourself, see no real difference between using it and not using it.

Edited by Alias218 on Thursday 4th June 09:57

frayz

Original Poster:

2,629 posts

159 months

Thursday 4th June 2020
quotequote all
Alias218 said:
As I say, probably little in it to be honest. I’m just aware of two camps who staunchly stand by their own method. It’s just an interesting insight given your experience in BB and frankly I’ll probably add it to mine next time for the sake of ease. No criticism meant.
No offense taken, genuinely the first time i've come across that point of view.

Cambs_Stuart

2,870 posts

84 months

Thursday 4th June 2020
quotequote all
Good work as always. I'm looking forward to fitting some plugs to my 172, hopefully access will be slightly easier than on the impreza/legacy.

frayz

Original Poster:

2,629 posts

159 months

Tuesday 9th June 2020
quotequote all
So finally nabbed some time to fit the black seatbelts and remove the rear bench. Black belts are standard equipment in almost all cars yet i really think they look better in here. The rear bench was never used even with the OEM seats in place, and absolutely cannot be accessed with the Pole Positions now fitted.
So as they were purely still there for decoration, I’ve decided to remove them and further add to my Clubsport theme.
So for a bit of fun, I had the boot mat embroidered with a logo i made up.

Lastly was the arrival of some 0.9mm wall T45 tube for another idea I have, so check back for updates on that.












frayz

Original Poster:

2,629 posts

159 months

Thursday 11th June 2020
quotequote all
Have to say another huge thanks to Alex @ AW Motorworks for fitting a pair of brand new driveshafts and poly boots in WZD this morning... and yet more gearbox oil. Its 5th lot of oil in the last 9 months Haha. Needless to say the gearbox oil was a clean as it went in.

I had a noise that i suspected could have been a shaft so ordered 2 new ones, fixed the noise which turned out not to be a shaft but fitted 2 new ones anyway... because why not biggrin


frayz

Original Poster:

2,629 posts

159 months

Thursday 11th June 2020
quotequote all
Turbo Testing

As i may have said previously i was hoping to drive some turbocharged Clios this morning and thanks to some very generous owners, i was allowed a go in a pair of them.

Car 1)
This was a low boost 182 setup running approx. 240bhp on stock engine & gearbox. (7psi)
Boost controlled to limit midrange torque and allow boost to be held further up for peak power to be used on track.

Car 2)
This car was 172 Cup with switchable boost running no torque limit (13psi).
240bhp low boost, 300bhp high boost forged engine with a basic Engine Dynamics kit.

Both cars fitted with LSDs, proper tyres, brakes, dampers and all the trimmings to be done properly.

I'm no stranger to turbocharged cars having started out with a 350bhp/340lbsft Sierra Cossie when i was aged 19. Later on with what became a 575bhp/520lbsft Subaru Impreza.
Also owned a supercharged Mini GP running 250bhp+ and driven lots of big bhp turbo cars, the fastest on the road being a 700bhp+ 996 GT2.
So I went in with both my eyes and my mind open to turbocharging my own 182, as maybe this was the extra power and theatre i was perhaps after?

The LB 182 had a decent amount of low down torque which provided a nice amount of get up and go in 1st,2nd and 3rd gear. Thereafter the torque dropped off quite significantly and i was left wanting more. This was great for a bit of low down punch but thereafter felt similar to a standard car.
Personally this setup didn't suit me at all, but was done this way at the owners request for trackday use.
It was great to experience how they can be tailored to each owners needs should that be what you want.

The Cup LB was significantly quicker than the 182 being not torque limited and although only about 20lbsft more than the LB 182, it was the aggressiveness of delivery and the overall torque spread. A LB Clio in this setup makes for a suitably quick road car. Just borders on what's usable in all conditions and would hook up and drive well. For most people this would be more than enough.

The Cup HB in the damp was completely unusable in anything below the middle of 3rd gear due to the aggressiveness of the torque ramp. A proper ECU with boost by gear would be nice to use here as you could add some much needed flexibility.
Once on the roll it was a potently fast car with approx. 300bhp per ton comfortably putting in the same category as a Porsche 997 turbo.

I cant write everything here, but Alex and i spoke at length about what options i have for going boosted with my 182. Needless to say he is incredibly open and honest about what can and cannot be achieved, what i would or wouldn't be happy with too.

I went today really wanting the turbocharged route to be an easy decision, its cheap and easy, but it has been anything but. I wondered if when i got back in my own car that i would be feeling it was hugely lacking. But driving home was quite the opposite. I have been thinking lately about what i like about the Clio and that was how assessable it is to really enjoy driving it. The little lightweight car coupled to the tactility and delicacy of the NA engine.
The more I've driven it lately the more i have been enjoying using all the revs, the delivery that builds as the rpms rise and the crescendo of grabbing another gear and doing it again. The balance is great, and I've always loved how adjustable it is on and off the throttle mid corner too.

Having experienced both turbo Clios for a decent real world drive, i think I've decided the turbocharged route is not for me with the Clio. Yes the allure of cheap bang for buck is superb. Its pennies to boost one of these which results in a significantly quick car.
The turbocharged car makes for a very potent little machine and is a bargain way to performance. If you have never experienced a fast turbocharged car, or you just want to go quick making some great noises, and not really caring how you get there, its great product. In HB it feels like you've been fired from a cannon and i would say is probably somewhat dangerous should you not be familiar with car control at the limit.

The turbo route certainly adds something to the Clio package, but for me i think it took away more than it added. It alters the way the car behaves and its power delivery (certainly for me) removed too much of how good the Clio feels to drive.

So i have to say I'm incredibly grateful for the experience in both cars, but i think I'll be exploring the NA route with whatever route that may be.

tumble dryer

2,017 posts

127 months

Thursday 11th June 2020
quotequote all
frayz said:
Turbo Testing

As i may have said previously i was hoping to drive some turbocharged Clios this morning and thanks to some very generous owners, i was allowed a go in a pair of them.

Car 1)
This was a low boost 182 setup running approx. 240bhp on stock engine & gearbox. (7psi)
Boost controlled to limit midrange torque and allow boost to be held further up for peak power to be used on track.

Car 2)
This car was 172 Cup with switchable boost running no torque limit (13psi).
240bhp low boost, 300bhp high boost forged engine with a basic Engine Dynamics kit.

Both cars fitted with LSDs, proper tyres, brakes, dampers and all the trimmings to be done properly.

I'm no stranger to turbocharged cars having started out with a 350bhp/340lbsft Sierra Cossie when i was aged 19. Later on with what became a 575bhp/520lbsft Subaru Impreza.
Also owned a supercharged Mini GP running 250bhp+ and driven lots of big bhp turbo cars, the fastest on the road being a 700bhp+ 996 GT2.
So I went in with both my eyes and my mind open to turbocharging my own 182, as maybe this was the extra power and theatre i was perhaps after?

The LB 182 had a decent amount of low down torque which provided a nice amount of get up and go in 1st,2nd and 3rd gear. Thereafter the torque dropped off quite significantly and i was left wanting more. This was great for a bit of low down punch but thereafter felt similar to a standard car.
Personally this setup didn't suit me at all, but was done this way at the owners request for trackday use.
It was great to experience how they can be tailored to each owners needs should that be what you want.

The Cup LB was significantly quicker than the 182 being not torque limited and although only about 20lbsft more than the LB 182, it was the aggressiveness of delivery and the overall torque spread. A LB Clio in this setup makes for a suitably quick road car. Just borders on what's usable in all conditions and would hook up and drive well. For most people this would be more than enough.

The Cup HB in the damp was completely unusable in anything below the middle of 3rd gear due to the aggressiveness of the torque ramp. A proper ECU with boost by gear would be nice to use here as you could add some much needed flexibility.
Once on the roll it was a potently fast car with approx. 300bhp per ton comfortably putting in the same category as a Porsche 997 turbo.

I cant write everything here, but Alex and i spoke at length about what options i have for going boosted with my 182. Needless to say he is incredibly open and honest about what can and cannot be achieved, what i would or wouldn't be happy with too.

I went today really wanting the turbocharged route to be an easy decision, its cheap and easy, but it has been anything but. I wondered if when i got back in my own car that i would be feeling it was hugely lacking. But driving home was quite the opposite. I have been thinking lately about what i like about the Clio and that was how assessable it is to really enjoy driving it. The little lightweight car coupled to the tactility and delicacy of the NA engine.
The more I've driven it lately the more i have been enjoying using all the revs, the delivery that builds as the rpms rise and the crescendo of grabbing another gear and doing it again. The balance is great, and I've always loved how adjustable it is on and off the throttle mid corner too.

Having experienced both turbo Clios for a decent real world drive, i think I've decided the turbocharged route is not for me with the Clio. Yes the allure of cheap bang for buck is superb. Its pennies to boost one of these which results in a significantly quick car.
The turbocharged car makes for a very potent little machine and is a bargain way to performance. If you have never experienced a fast turbocharged car, or you just want to go quick making some great noises, and not really caring how you get there, its great product. In HB it feels like you've been fired from a cannon and i would say is probably somewhat dangerous should you not be familiar with car control at the limit.

The turbo route certainly adds something to the Clio package, but for me i think it took away more than it added. It alters the way the car behaves and its power delivery (certainly for me) removed too much of how good the Clio feels to drive.

So i have to say I'm incredibly grateful for the experience in both cars, but i think I'll be exploring the NA route with whatever route that may be.
Good write-up Frayz. clap

I haven't driven a boosted Clio and like you fancied a bit more grunt from mine, but you're not the first person with experience to say that the character of the car changes quite dramatically.

I'll see if I can cadge a passenger lap in a boosted one at my next track day.... (Croft 6th July)

chrismc1977

854 posts

112 months

Thursday 11th June 2020
quotequote all
It’s nice to stick with n/a

I could look at boosted options for my Integra- but tbh I love how it drives & delivers the power now. Something so satisfying about driving an old school n/a car, really working the motor & having to properly pedal it to deliver its best. So rewarding to drive.

Even with something south of 200hp & being 20yrs old it’s still possible to humble so many unsuspecting/uninformed drivers who want to have a play. That’s probably most satisfying of all to me!

I’m sure you will empathise with a Renaultsport..

Edited by chrismc1977 on Thursday 11th June 19:56

frayz

Original Poster:

2,629 posts

159 months

Thursday 11th June 2020
quotequote all
tumble dryer said:
Good write-up Frayz. clap

I haven't driven a boosted Clio and like you fancied a bit more grunt from mine, but you're not the first person with experience to say that the character of the car changes quite dramatically.

I'll see if I can cadge a passenger lap in a boosted one at my next track day.... (Croft 6th July)
Deffo try and have a go, its worth the experience. For the pop whizz bag its a great party piece.
Just doesn't suit the delicacy of the car in my opinion.

frayz

Original Poster:

2,629 posts

159 months

Thursday 11th June 2020
quotequote all
chrismc1977 said:
It’s nice to stick with n/a

I could look at boosted options for my Integra- but tbh I love how it drives & delivers the power now. Something so satisfying about driving an old school n/a car, really working the motor & having to properly pedal it to deliver its best. So rewarding to drive.

Even with something south of 200hp & being 20yrs old it’s still possible to humble so many unsuspecting/uninformed drivers who want to have a play. That’s probably most satisfying of all to me!

I’m sure you will empathise with a Renaultsport..

Edited by chrismc1977 on Thursday 11th June 19:56
Absolutely.
The motor has done 125k miles now and serviced religiously so in all honesty i see no reason it should fail.
However you can only wring its neck for so long, which makes me want to build the motor so that it can be revved to within an inch of its life and be perfectly fine doing so.

The turbo route certainly adds another dimension to the little Clio, but not a dimension i'm a fan of.
Certainly makes the car less rewarding to drive for me.

LetsTryAgain

2,904 posts

73 months

Thursday 11th June 2020
quotequote all
I've had 2 Clio 200's, and people were starting to turbo them and I thought I wouldn't want to ruin the experience myself.
The way that thing went was mega.
Probably no quicker than an EP3 I wouldn't imagine but it was a wonderful drive.

Having said that (and thought about it) I did beat a DC5 in a traffic light GP to a reasonable speed one day.

alexcrosse

152 posts

144 months

Friday 12th June 2020
quotequote all
frayz said:
Absolutely.
The motor has done 125k miles now and serviced religiously so in all honesty i see no reason it should fail.
However you can only wring its neck for so long, which makes me want to build the motor so that it can be revved to within an inch of its life and be perfectly fine doing so.

The turbo route certainly adds another dimension to the little Clio, but not a dimension i'm a fan of.
Certainly makes the car less rewarding to drive for me.
Is an engine swap out of the question for you?

love this by the way, always been one of those cars I've been close to snapping up. And a couple of recaro's to correct the OEM driving position is a pretty important piece of the puzzle.

Edited by alexcrosse on Friday 12th June 07:41


Edited by alexcrosse on Friday 12th June 07:42

frayz

Original Poster:

2,629 posts

159 months

Friday 12th June 2020
quotequote all
alexcrosse said:
frayz said:
Absolutely.
The motor has done 125k miles now and serviced religiously so in all honesty i see no reason it should fail.
However you can only wring its neck for so long, which makes me want to build the motor so that it can be revved to within an inch of its life and be perfectly fine doing so.

The turbo route certainly adds another dimension to the little Clio, but not a dimension i'm a fan of.
Certainly makes the car less rewarding to drive for me.
Is an engine swap out of the question for you?
It is really Alex.
I dare say you haven’t read the whole thread and that’s more than understandable, I mean it’s a Clio right. Haha.
However in short, I’ve owned this car almost all it’s life and it’s a standing joke that it’s “just my daily”.
It is indeed “just my daily” so needs to remain useable and sensible and i want to keep to the original ethos of the car.

If it were a crazy build for me to have fun with it would probably look into a K20 engine and box swap

alexcrosse

152 posts

144 months

Friday 12th June 2020
quotequote all
frayz said:
It is really Alex.
I dare say you haven’t read the whole thread and that’s more than understandable, I mean it’s a Clio right. Haha.
However in short, I’ve owned this car almost all it’s life and it’s a standing joke that it’s “just my daily”.
It is indeed “just my daily” so needs to remain useable and sensible and i want to keep to the original ethos of the car.

If it were a crazy build for me to have fun with it would probably look into a K20 engine and box swap
Not the full 18 yet, its like trying to catch up on a years worth of podcasts backwards. I got too trigger happy at the sight of a clio, recaros and talk of an engine build, I needed to be involved. I built a 205 sprint car a while ago and am now infected with the draw towards french hatches, unshakeable.

You should probably ignore most things I say, you're talking to someone who commuted in a fwd R1 mini for a year... but usually 'revved within an inch' and 'perfectly fine' are a contradiction of terms and surely will detract from the usability?

I'm not a honda nut, but its hard to detract from the inherent power and reliability a K20 would provide. Arguably a more usable and sensible solution?

I'll catch up, i promise


frayz

Original Poster:

2,629 posts

159 months

Friday 12th June 2020
quotequote all
alexcrosse said:
frayz said:
It is really Alex.
I dare say you haven’t read the whole thread and that’s more than understandable, I mean it’s a Clio right. Haha.
However in short, I’ve owned this car almost all it’s life and it’s a standing joke that it’s “just my daily”.
It is indeed “just my daily” so needs to remain useable and sensible and i want to keep to the original ethos of the car.

If it were a crazy build for me to have fun with it would probably look into a K20 engine and box swap
Not the full 18 yet, its like trying to catch up on a years worth of podcasts backwards. I got too trigger happy at the sight of a clio, recaros and talk of an engine build, I needed to be involved. I built a 205 sprint car a while ago and am now infected with the draw towards french hatches, unshakeable.

You should probably ignore most things I say, you're talking to someone who commuted in a fwd R1 mini for a year... but usually 'revved within an inch' and 'perfectly fine' are a contradiction of terms and surely will detract from the usability?

I'm not a honda nut, but its hard to detract from the inherent power and reliability a K20 would provide. Arguably a more usable and sensible solution?

I'll catch up, i promise
Haha.

Well my “nice weekend car” is a Cayman R and this is supposed to be my sensible runaround.
In the last 10 months it’s had every single bush, bearing, Mount and drivetrain component replaced. A Quaife diff, AST dampers, brakes, seats blah blah blah.

I’m not “baller” enough to tinker with my Porsche but I can play with this and I absolutely adore it.

I’m loving the GTR videos too mate. A massive undertaking and enjoyable watch. Thanks for sharing. smile