540HP NA 7L V12 3 seater
Discussion
F1natic said:
Robert, your project is exemplary. Also your videos are great, thanks for the link, looks like you are having a lot of fun now that she is under her own power. I will probably do the same dance when I get my setup running for the first time too. In all my years of searching the internet for twin engine setups I still managed to miss an epic project such as yours.
If anyone knows of any other successful twin engine projects (or failures, they are more informative!), I am always very interested to know the technical details.
Thank you old chap ,much appreciated If anyone knows of any other successful twin engine projects (or failures, they are more informative!), I am always very interested to know the technical details.
Edited by F1natic on Monday 4th May 07:25
if you search , medusa twin engine , the thread on the build will pop up ,and there's a bit of tech stuff in there if its of any use .
regards
robert
No matter how much research you do, there is always the chance of uncovering something special related to a project. This great example of engineering resourcefulness being used to achieve a goal comes from 1937. I knew nothing of George Eystons' "Thunderbolt" before YouTube kindly recommended a video about it.
It used a pair of 36.5 litre supercharged Rolls Royce R V12's putting out 2,350HP each, fed through a 3 speed gearbox to the rear axle (the gearbox alone weighed a ton, the whole vehicle ended up at 6 tons). In top gear the clutches were bypassed by a dog lockup mechanism that initially wasn't able to cope, but with some field trials and modified parts it went VERY well, as you would expect. What a beast.
It used a pair of 36.5 litre supercharged Rolls Royce R V12's putting out 2,350HP each, fed through a 3 speed gearbox to the rear axle (the gearbox alone weighed a ton, the whole vehicle ended up at 6 tons). In top gear the clutches were bypassed by a dog lockup mechanism that initially wasn't able to cope, but with some field trials and modified parts it went VERY well, as you would expect. What a beast.
Edited by F1natic on Saturday 16th May 00:49
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTY0shFj_C4&t=...
This is the one I watched, it has some brief running shots. Brave timing officals standing out on the course while these things thundered past at 500 kph with a driver who couldn't see due to loosing his goggles. Different times huh?
This is the one I watched, it has some brief running shots. Brave timing officals standing out on the course while these things thundered past at 500 kph with a driver who couldn't see due to loosing his goggles. Different times huh?
F1natic said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTY0shFj_C4&t=...
This is the one I watched, it has some brief running shots. Brave timing officals standing out on the course while these things thundered past at 500 kph with a driver who couldn't see due to loosing his goggles. Different times huh?
That was fascinating, thank you, Kia kaha.This is the one I watched, it has some brief running shots. Brave timing officals standing out on the course while these things thundered past at 500 kph with a driver who couldn't see due to loosing his goggles. Different times huh?
F1natic said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTY0shFj_C4&t=...
This is the one I watched, it has some brief running shots. Brave timing officals standing out on the course while these things thundered past at 500 kph with a driver who couldn't see due to loosing his goggles. Different times huh?
It's interesting how Youtube works. I've seen a few of scarf and goggles videos previously and this must've appeared on my recommended at the same time.This is the one I watched, it has some brief running shots. Brave timing officals standing out on the course while these things thundered past at 500 kph with a driver who couldn't see due to loosing his goggles. Different times huh?
Lack of updates due to not having a chance to work on the project - my day job has required full attention post lockdown.
Good news is the gearbox has finally arrived in from the states, but is held up at NZ customs due to spiders in the container - should be available next week after fumigation is done.
Below are the calculated speeds at gear change when at 7500 revs. Top speed goal for the project is 200mph, which is in 5th at max revs. At least we know the body design is capable.
Gear........Ratio.........Road speed (kph)
1st...........2.29..........115
2nd..........1.61..........164
3rd...........1.21..........218
4th...........1...............264
5th...........0.82..........322
6th...........0.68..........NA
7th...........0.45..........NA
The first gear ratio is roughly the same as the 2nd gear in my 2008 Accord which uses the same J35Z2 engine. I have been road testing at low revs/ speed on inclines lugging up the 1600kg. I am confident that the long first gear will be fine with double the torque and less weight, plus I don't mind slipping the clutch (frowned upon practice in a real F1 with its carbon clutch).
Good news is the gearbox has finally arrived in from the states, but is held up at NZ customs due to spiders in the container - should be available next week after fumigation is done.
Below are the calculated speeds at gear change when at 7500 revs. Top speed goal for the project is 200mph, which is in 5th at max revs. At least we know the body design is capable.
Gear........Ratio.........Road speed (kph)
1st...........2.29..........115
2nd..........1.61..........164
3rd...........1.21..........218
4th...........1...............264
5th...........0.82..........322
6th...........0.68..........NA
7th...........0.45..........NA
The first gear ratio is roughly the same as the 2nd gear in my 2008 Accord which uses the same J35Z2 engine. I have been road testing at low revs/ speed on inclines lugging up the 1600kg. I am confident that the long first gear will be fine with double the torque and less weight, plus I don't mind slipping the clutch (frowned upon practice in a real F1 with its carbon clutch).
Edited by F1natic on Saturday 18th July 10:04
Now that the T.50 design details have dropped it has been very interesting to see how many faults a suposedly "no compromise design" were included on the F1 - I would love to see a fly on the wall doco during the styling decisions and see how much influence PS vs GM had.
Getting compliance with off the shelf items makes sense, however I don't believe that the headlights were from Halfords. Given how much GM espoused the F1 initailly I tend to now take his word with a grain of marketing salt. Interesting to find out that the air vents are from a ford fiesta though.
Also stated that styling changes post tooling blocks were not practical, pretty much puts to bed my hunches about the eyebrow panels above the headlights, however in my opinion the rear spine is not too wide or disproportionate. I would love to spend an afternoon talking to PS about where he wanted to go with the design.
The luggage loading issue is not one I had ever heard of or imagined, although the luggage getting cooked will still be a challenge for the T50. I only have about 120mm between the harmonic balancers and the side panels so no problem on my car as there won't be any storage on the sides. For long road trips I have contemplated designing a custom aerodynamic suitcase with a quick release - a sort of "Drop Tank" so that the car has external luggage capacity. Easy to leave in the accommodation while exploring the roads around the destination unhindered - I am looking at you Queenstown.
Getting compliance with off the shelf items makes sense, however I don't believe that the headlights were from Halfords. Given how much GM espoused the F1 initailly I tend to now take his word with a grain of marketing salt. Interesting to find out that the air vents are from a ford fiesta though.
Also stated that styling changes post tooling blocks were not practical, pretty much puts to bed my hunches about the eyebrow panels above the headlights, however in my opinion the rear spine is not too wide or disproportionate. I would love to spend an afternoon talking to PS about where he wanted to go with the design.
The luggage loading issue is not one I had ever heard of or imagined, although the luggage getting cooked will still be a challenge for the T50. I only have about 120mm between the harmonic balancers and the side panels so no problem on my car as there won't be any storage on the sides. For long road trips I have contemplated designing a custom aerodynamic suitcase with a quick release - a sort of "Drop Tank" so that the car has external luggage capacity. Easy to leave in the accommodation while exploring the roads around the destination unhindered - I am looking at you Queenstown.
GM is a visionary in the automobile (I hate the word "automotive") world but he's not alone in believing his own hyperbole nor being unable to come out with opinionated crap.
I worshipped the ground he walked on engineering-wise for many years but when he got his guest column in Evo magazine he let it be plainly obvious he was not the type of person to welcome other opinions, especially those that don't sit with his own philosophy.
Not that that takes away a single thing from the majestic T50, the only car I would consider at the moment should the funds allow. But his way is not the only way and he'd come across a much more informed man if he accepted it.
I worshipped the ground he walked on engineering-wise for many years but when he got his guest column in Evo magazine he let it be plainly obvious he was not the type of person to welcome other opinions, especially those that don't sit with his own philosophy.
Not that that takes away a single thing from the majestic T50, the only car I would consider at the moment should the funds allow. But his way is not the only way and he'd come across a much more informed man if he accepted it.
Agreed. Visionary people often have a no compromise attitude as that is a critical characteristic required to bulldoze things through and get the result they want, and in the end the victory or defeat rests on the team leader. But it is a team that usually builds these things, and the results from effective teamwork are always better than single minded obsession.
F1natic said:
plus I have built it in lego so I know it works!
I love how the awesome engineering and CAD work was all topped off with I tested it with some Lego! Edited by F1natic on Friday 3rd April 10:35
Gotta ask (and feel free to not answer) what is your day job cos this is many (many many) leagues above people building kit cars/track cars/classic rebuilds.
I've just caught up with this whole thread, I hadn't seen it before. What an awesome project! It put me in mind of John Britten's bikes - he wasn't one for following convention either, there must be something in the water in NZ.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britten_V1000
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britten_V1000
firemunki said:
I love how the awesome engineering and CAD work was all topped off with I tested it with some Lego!
Gotta ask (and feel free to not answer) what is your day job cos this is many (many many) leagues above people building kit cars/track cars/classic rebuilds.
My day job is a mechanical design engineer at one of the few remaining foundries in NZ. It took many years of careful career steps to make the opportunities avail themselves. A large part of my work is printing and casting 3D prints of prototypes for our customers, so all those skills are directly transferrable to the project. I am very fortunate that my employer is fully supportive of my project as I am fairly obsessive about it (as one has to be, see point above!).Gotta ask (and feel free to not answer) what is your day job cos this is many (many many) leagues above people building kit cars/track cars/classic rebuilds.
The complexity is not much higher than other projects, but ask me that once I am done. The ECU is a fascinating field and there has been huge progress recently on the Speeduino front - Josh has been working on the Dropbear unit which will probabaly be a better ECU for the project as it has the capacity to run full sequential on 8 cylinder applications. Regardless of the ECU type I will need a pair of them.
underwhelmist said:
I've just caught up with this whole thread, I hadn't seen it before. What an awesome project! It put me in mind of John Britten's bikes - he wasn't one for following convention either, there must be something in the water in NZ.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britten_V1000
The final paint colour scheme I am probably going to go with will be a hommage to the V1000, I used to help out in the Ruapuna pits on a mates bike at the bears racing in chch at the time they were racing it. I will never forget seeing Andrew Stroud entering the straight, drifting under power, leaving a huge black mark every lap then lifting the front wheel almost fully down the straight. Was a magnificent sight and sound, having fun with engineering is what inspires me. Spent a summer holiday at engineering school in the windtunnel finishing off a students project for the Britten team so got to meet a few top blokes, Dr Murray Aitken was always gracious with his time, and in my opinion the unsung hero is Mike Brosnan, whose own bikes were fantastically crafted machines.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britten_V1000
Edited by F1natic on Saturday 8th August 02:35
The 65 litre fuel tank (outline visible) is sitting nicely in the middle of the car. The route the pipe takes from the normal fuel filler cap position to the tank is a bit convoluted and not very elegant - Unfortunately someone has stuck a bloody motor in the way of doing a simple straight connection.....
Edited by F1natic on Friday 14th August 12:39
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