Maserati Gransport (aka the wedding dress)
Discussion
Matt Bird said:
Great minds think alike! And love the colour.
Thanks 
S100HP said:
I've said it before, but I like the cut of your jib sir. Kudos to you.
Again, thank you. BigChiefmuffinAgain said:
Fab thread. I'm afraid it has put me off some lingering thoughts I had had for a while about buying one of these or a QP....
They do appear to be complex, fragile beasts....
I wouldn't let it put you off. My advice with with a QP would be to go for the proper slush box rather than cambrio-corsa as the clutch's don't last long and they're very expensive to replace.They do appear to be complex, fragile beasts....
Nath911t said:
Great thread, lovely looking car and well done to you for some of the jobs you've done on it. Particularly impressed with the last few pictures 
I do work hard on the pics. Most have been taken on an iPhone Xs but the one looking out towards the castle was taken using my SLR.Cambs_Stuart said:
Really entertaining thread.
The car looks both beautiful and mind-boggingly complicated to work on. Good luck to you!
It's difficult due to there being no workshop manual available, but it is just a car.The car looks both beautiful and mind-boggingly complicated to work on. Good luck to you!
BVB said:
Very nice, and an interesting thread, thanks.
Greendubber said:
What a fabulous car and I absolutely applaud your bravery and attitude. I'm sure you'll get it all sorted, I love the colour!
Thank you both.Edited by Zombie on Sunday 24th November 19:40
What's the opposite of progress? Anti-progress? Un-progress?
Anyway, I digress.
The work we've carried out this weekend has not been entirely successful. We continued to strip the ducting away from the heater box;
IMG_2185-2 by Chris, on Flickr
Which eventually led to the separation of the two halves, leaving the air con cooler in place;
IMG_2196 by Chris, on Flickr
- The heater radiator in the bit in the passenger footwell
There wasn't much in way of evidence that the radiator has been leaking though;
IMG_2206 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_2214 by Chris, on Flickr
And this is where the problems started. I've been told, by several sources, that the heater matrix is the same as the one from a Saab 9000. Which makes sense if you consider it - various parts on the car come from Alfa Romeos and the 164 uses the same floorpan as the 9000.
The matrix is the same size. But the outlet pipes are different. On the 9000, they leave the end cap vertically whilst on the matrix fitted to the car they are angled. In addition, the pipes on the original are different lengths, but they are the same lengths on the 9000 matrix;
IMG_2219 by Chris, on Flickr
Some of these issues we had anticipated and dismissed as being easy enough to work around. However, the real issue is the pipe diameter of the 9000 matrix is smaller than the the connecting pipes in the car and smaller than the outlet pipes of the original matrix.
However and to complicate things, I do not believe the heater matrix is the original as it is dated Feb 1996;
IMG_2216 by Chris, on Flickr
It also has a Fiat/Lancia/Alfa parts symbol on it, which makes me think it's out of a 164.
All of which means, if I had used the 9000 matrix, I think there's a good chance it would've leaked due to the pipes being too small. And I don't know what heater matrix it should have in it as the one in the car isn't original.
I've left it with my Dad who's going to do more research.
Anyway, I digress.
The work we've carried out this weekend has not been entirely successful. We continued to strip the ducting away from the heater box;
IMG_2185-2 by Chris, on FlickrWhich eventually led to the separation of the two halves, leaving the air con cooler in place;
IMG_2196 by Chris, on Flickr- The heater radiator in the bit in the passenger footwell
There wasn't much in way of evidence that the radiator has been leaking though;
IMG_2206 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_2214 by Chris, on FlickrAnd this is where the problems started. I've been told, by several sources, that the heater matrix is the same as the one from a Saab 9000. Which makes sense if you consider it - various parts on the car come from Alfa Romeos and the 164 uses the same floorpan as the 9000.
The matrix is the same size. But the outlet pipes are different. On the 9000, they leave the end cap vertically whilst on the matrix fitted to the car they are angled. In addition, the pipes on the original are different lengths, but they are the same lengths on the 9000 matrix;
IMG_2219 by Chris, on FlickrSome of these issues we had anticipated and dismissed as being easy enough to work around. However, the real issue is the pipe diameter of the 9000 matrix is smaller than the the connecting pipes in the car and smaller than the outlet pipes of the original matrix.
However and to complicate things, I do not believe the heater matrix is the original as it is dated Feb 1996;
IMG_2216 by Chris, on FlickrIt also has a Fiat/Lancia/Alfa parts symbol on it, which makes me think it's out of a 164.
All of which means, if I had used the 9000 matrix, I think there's a good chance it would've leaked due to the pipes being too small. And I don't know what heater matrix it should have in it as the one in the car isn't original.
I've left it with my Dad who's going to do more research.
Moving on to today, I thought with the interior apart, it would make sense to clean it properly.
I took the centre console out, with considerable care as it's carbon fibre and stupidly expensive to replace. And the seats, which really are filthy;
IMG_2235 by Chris, on Flickr
As were the floor mats which I pressure washed to begin with;
IMG_2221 by Chris, on Flickr
As was the carpet, which we also removed;
IMG_2223 by Chris, on Flickr
Pressure washed;
IMG_2225 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_2226 by Chris, on Flickr
Then attacked everything - mats, carpet, side panels etc with a rug doctor (for about 4 hours)...
IMG_2234 by Chris, on Flickr
And hung it up to dry;
IMG_2236 by Chris, on Flickr
It looked much better after we'd finished. The waste water in the rug doctor's tank was about as bad as I've ever seen it.
I took some pics of the interior after we pulled the carpet out;
IMG_2227 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_2231 by Chris, on Flickr
IMG_2233 by Chris, on Flickr
Another advantage of taking it all apart was to ensure the car isn't hiding any crash damage, which has been a concern of mine, with it being an import. The good news (for once) is that it's all straight, with no corrosion.
I took the centre console out, with considerable care as it's carbon fibre and stupidly expensive to replace. And the seats, which really are filthy;
IMG_2235 by Chris, on FlickrAs were the floor mats which I pressure washed to begin with;
IMG_2221 by Chris, on FlickrAs was the carpet, which we also removed;
IMG_2223 by Chris, on FlickrPressure washed;
IMG_2225 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_2226 by Chris, on FlickrThen attacked everything - mats, carpet, side panels etc with a rug doctor (for about 4 hours)...
IMG_2234 by Chris, on FlickrAnd hung it up to dry;
IMG_2236 by Chris, on FlickrIt looked much better after we'd finished. The waste water in the rug doctor's tank was about as bad as I've ever seen it.
I took some pics of the interior after we pulled the carpet out;
IMG_2227 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_2231 by Chris, on FlickrIMG_2233 by Chris, on FlickrAnother advantage of taking it all apart was to ensure the car isn't hiding any crash damage, which has been a concern of mine, with it being an import. The good news (for once) is that it's all straight, with no corrosion.
Only just spotted I'm on RCOTW, thanks for that Matt, really appreciate it.
ETA.
When I talk about "we", I mean my Dad and I. When I say "I" I invariably mean my Dad and I. I think this is the 3rd time I've been mentioned in dispatches, with the 75 and the 159 preceding this. But in each and every case I could not have achieved the end result without him. The 159 was actually my Dad's enterprise. I feel guilty every time I read the phrase referencing PH'r Zombie because of this.
ETA.
When I talk about "we", I mean my Dad and I. When I say "I" I invariably mean my Dad and I. I think this is the 3rd time I've been mentioned in dispatches, with the 75 and the 159 preceding this. But in each and every case I could not have achieved the end result without him. The 159 was actually my Dad's enterprise. I feel guilty every time I read the phrase referencing PH'r Zombie because of this.
Edited by Zombie on Monday 25th November 01:24
Fascinating!
I've been looking for a manual 4200 for ages. ( Had first wanted a manual 3200, but too many issues with them, inc build quality, their belts and their turbo power delivery. )
But finding one in the exterior colour black metallic ( let alone the interior colour that I want - many have magnolia interiors which I loathe ) is proving near impossible.
We recently traveled well over 200 miles to view an mid blue metallic / magnolia trim 05 car, which in the Autotrader photos looked immaculate. But the car has been stored outside in all weathers on the coast, without a cover, since the seller bought it 4 odd years ago and the paint etc has Really suffered. It drove well, the history file looked good. Not savagely quick like my 1060 kgs Griff but @ 1680 kgs, these cars are way too lardy.
However, only one of the interior lights worked, the rear Michelins were ancient, there is a dent in the bonnet, the drivers side OE floor mat was missing and in its place was a 2 bob one size fits all mat. The door strikers were corroding, some of the pipe work under neath was corroding along with some corrosion starting on one sill end.
It's a total Buyers market for these cars, many have been for sale for ages.
This one is up for £ top money.
We made the seller an offer, but the old boy is £ minted and would barely budge, so we walked.
I've been looking for a manual 4200 for ages. ( Had first wanted a manual 3200, but too many issues with them, inc build quality, their belts and their turbo power delivery. )
But finding one in the exterior colour black metallic ( let alone the interior colour that I want - many have magnolia interiors which I loathe ) is proving near impossible.
We recently traveled well over 200 miles to view an mid blue metallic / magnolia trim 05 car, which in the Autotrader photos looked immaculate. But the car has been stored outside in all weathers on the coast, without a cover, since the seller bought it 4 odd years ago and the paint etc has Really suffered. It drove well, the history file looked good. Not savagely quick like my 1060 kgs Griff but @ 1680 kgs, these cars are way too lardy.
However, only one of the interior lights worked, the rear Michelins were ancient, there is a dent in the bonnet, the drivers side OE floor mat was missing and in its place was a 2 bob one size fits all mat. The door strikers were corroding, some of the pipe work under neath was corroding along with some corrosion starting on one sill end.
It's a total Buyers market for these cars, many have been for sale for ages.
This one is up for £ top money.
We made the seller an offer, but the old boy is £ minted and would barely budge, so we walked.
neutral 3 said:
Fascinating!
I've been looking for a manual 4200 for ages. ( Had first wanted a manual 3200, but too many issues with them, inc build quality, their belts and their turbo power delivery. )
But finding one in the exterior colour black metallic ( let alone the interior colour that I want - many have magnolia interiors which I loathe ) is proving near impossible.
We recently traveled well over 200 miles to view an mid blue metallic / magnolia trim 05 car, which in the Autotrader photos looked immaculate. But the car has been stored outside in all weathers on the coast, without a cover, since the seller bought it 4 odd years ago and the paint etc has Really suffered. It drove well, the history file looked good. Not savagely quick like my 1060 kgs Griff but @ 1680 kgs, these cars are way too lardy.
However, only one of the interior lights worked, the rear Michelins were ancient, there is a dent in the bonnet, the drivers side OE floor mat was missing and in its place was a 2 bob one size fits all mat. The door strikers were corroding, some of the pipe work under neath was corroding along with some corrosion starting on one sill end.
It's a total Buyers market for these cars, many have been for sale for ages.
This one is up for £ top money.
We made the seller an offer, but the old boy is £ minted and would barely budge, so we walked.
The good ones sell quickly. I found it really difficult to find one as every single car I looked at had issues. I settled on this one for reasons that has been validated but it's still been a pain in the arse.I've been looking for a manual 4200 for ages. ( Had first wanted a manual 3200, but too many issues with them, inc build quality, their belts and their turbo power delivery. )
But finding one in the exterior colour black metallic ( let alone the interior colour that I want - many have magnolia interiors which I loathe ) is proving near impossible.
We recently traveled well over 200 miles to view an mid blue metallic / magnolia trim 05 car, which in the Autotrader photos looked immaculate. But the car has been stored outside in all weathers on the coast, without a cover, since the seller bought it 4 odd years ago and the paint etc has Really suffered. It drove well, the history file looked good. Not savagely quick like my 1060 kgs Griff but @ 1680 kgs, these cars are way too lardy.
However, only one of the interior lights worked, the rear Michelins were ancient, there is a dent in the bonnet, the drivers side OE floor mat was missing and in its place was a 2 bob one size fits all mat. The door strikers were corroding, some of the pipe work under neath was corroding along with some corrosion starting on one sill end.
It's a total Buyers market for these cars, many have been for sale for ages.
This one is up for £ top money.
We made the seller an offer, but the old boy is £ minted and would barely budge, so we walked.
Buyers advice?
Assume that the clutch is shagged if there isn't a clutch wear reading - CC only, although I recognise you're looking for a manual.
Brake discs are stupid expensive and/or difficult to source.
As are suspension arms.
I found doing checks on MOT history to be invaluable in terms of mileage / use / what has and hasn't been repaired.
And that black GS (reg ending EFO) is very definitely a money pit. Avoid!
Edited by Zombie on Monday 25th November 00:59
It's a lovely looking car from just about every angle and at the risk of repeating everyone else, top marks for all the work done on what looks like a fiendishly complex beast! From someone for whom it took 10 hours to fit a simple reversing camera to a VW, I don't think I would have got much further than testing the battery and alternater before surrendering the car to a dealership, paying some enourmous bills, being dissapointed with the work done then selling it on.
Enjoying the topic - how great it must have felt to have finally discovered the cause of the gearbox oil leak.
Looking forward to see some pictures of the interior once it is all back together, clean and working.
Enjoying the topic - how great it must have felt to have finally discovered the cause of the gearbox oil leak.
Looking forward to see some pictures of the interior once it is all back together, clean and working.
t myself!'' I've been told, by several sources, that the heater matrix is the same as the one from a Saab 9000. Which makes sense if you consider it - various parts on the car come from Alfa Romeos and the 164 uses the same floorpan as the 9000.''
I also remember reading, very recently, that the heater matrix was sourced not from the Alfa 164 but from the 166, would probably make sense for Maserati to use the newer more available item.
I also remember reading, very recently, that the heater matrix was sourced not from the Alfa 164 but from the 166, would probably make sense for Maserati to use the newer more available item.
AlecT said:
'' I've been told, by several sources, that the heater matrix is the same as the one from a Saab 9000. Which makes sense if you consider it - various parts on the car come from Alfa Romeos and the 164 uses the same floorpan as the 9000.''
I also remember reading, very recently, that the heater matrix was sourced not from the Alfa 164 but from the 166, would probably make sense for Maserati to use the newer more available item.
Ironically, I've found that the cognate Maserati parts are often quite a bit cheaper than the Alfa official parts (and, more importantly, available) when scavenging for bits on my 105/115 Alfa Spider. I also remember reading, very recently, that the heater matrix was sourced not from the Alfa 164 but from the 166, would probably make sense for Maserati to use the newer more available item.
I believe that some GTA Selespeed owners (of which I used to be one) have had similar success when sourcing gearbox and actuator bits from Maserati and Ferrari parts bins/breakers.
tomsugden said:
What a great write up.
Now you've switched the speedo to mph, is the odometer not still recording kms?
It is, but the MOT tester we use spotted it without being prompted. There also isn't a practical solution beyond using the MOT history and a stopwatch to verify it's still being recorded in kph.Now you've switched the speedo to mph, is the odometer not still recording kms?
psi310398 said:
Ironically, I've found that the cognate Maserati parts are often quite a bit cheaper than the Alfa official parts (and, more importantly, available) when scavenging for bits on my 105/115 Alfa Spider.
I believe that some GTA Selespeed owners (of which I used to be one) have had similar success when sourcing gearbox and actuator bits from Maserati and Ferrari parts bins/breakers.
Yup, some parts are silly cheap. I really don't understand the fait group's pricing strategy. I believe that some GTA Selespeed owners (of which I used to be one) have had similar success when sourcing gearbox and actuator bits from Maserati and Ferrari parts bins/breakers.
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