Maserati Gransport (aka the wedding dress)
Discussion
Turn7 said:
Great and enjoyable write up, far braver man the me for sure.
Great looking car, even in white.
That engine looks lovely, but I think Id lie awake at night thinking of the potential for major borkage.....
Thanks.Great looking car, even in white.
That engine looks lovely, but I think Id lie awake at night thinking of the potential for major borkage.....
The engine really isn't a problem. They're practically bullet proof.
Nor is the gearbox.
The only real weak link is the multi plate clutch, which is silly expensive. Suspension arms were also stupid expensive but the aftermarket has resolved this. I anticipate that the cost of the Clutch will also be resolved in the future.
I think the current problem to look for is subframe corrosion. And this is where mine, being an import from HK, doesn't suffer.
Harry Flashman said:
I have one of these and absolutely love it. They are one of these cars that can look a bit awkward in photos but that are utterly lovely in the metal, and smaller than you might think.
The noise is spectacular - these sing and yowl in the way of a proper Italian V8.
Took a while to find a good one: they are cheap for what they are but need a proper budget for maintenance, so plenty I saw had been neglected. So if anyone's interested in one, it is clear that the OP's has been pampered and brought to fantastic condition. And I reckon the pearl white looks great!
Damn, that looks amazing in that colour combo!
The noise is spectacular - these sing and yowl in the way of a proper Italian V8.
Took a while to find a good one: they are cheap for what they are but need a proper budget for maintenance, so plenty I saw had been neglected. So if anyone's interested in one, it is clear that the OP's has been pampered and brought to fantastic condition. And I reckon the pearl white looks great!
Damn, that looks amazing in that colour combo!
Edited by Harry Flashman on Thursday 30th December 21:39
Some parts I ordered last year finally turned up last week, (thank you Brexiteers) so I dug the Maser out from under it's winter cover this weekend for a couple of jobs.
1st job was to replace an idler puller which is part of the auxiliary drive belt system. It's been squealing for a while on start up and had gotten worse recently through a lack of use.
IMG_1063 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
IMG_1067 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
Prior to ordering a, typically expensive, new part we did take it off and have a closer look at it. It has no identifying part numbers and didn't match any of the numerous idler pulleys we have accumulated fixing many Alfa's.
So we re-greased the bearing and put it back together. But, it was obvious it needed replacing, even though the noise had gone.
It's a relatively easy job though. Staring with removal of the air intake trunking and throttle body as well as the front splitter / under tray.
IMG_1069 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
IMG_1080 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
IMG_1083 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
IMG_1071 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
From here access to the tensioner is available
IMG_1076 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
IMG_8266 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
IMG_8269 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
IMG_8268 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
New v's Old:
IMG_1087 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
Interestingly, the new pulley does have a PN on it:
IMG_1093 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
Before putting it back together, my Dad repaired the frayed pipe protection;
IMG_1095 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
IMG_1128 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
And the under tray a clean;
IMG_1099 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
As ever, any corroded /damaged screws and bolts were also replaced, in this case with stainless ones as they were vulnerable to corrosion;
IMG_1129 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
IMG_1134 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
The next job was anti roll bar bushes. As well as the squeal from the idler puller, it was also developing a slight knock from the front end. I've had it apart at least 3 times looking for the cause and found nothing. There's no movement in the wishbones, hub or track rod. I couldn't find any movement in the ARB either, but, being the owners of many Alfas, this is not unfamiliar territory and past experience suggested that the ARB bushes or drop links may be the issue.
Having checked, I knew the ARB bushes were a separate part and access to replace them is very good. I'd go so far as to say, it doesn't get any easier than this as a job, on any car.
IMG_1105-2 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
IMG_1104 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
IMG_8270 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
IMG_1109 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
I've not driven it far since, but the acid test is the estate road I live on and when I turn into the driveway. Based on this, I think this has fixed it. Which is a result.
1st job was to replace an idler puller which is part of the auxiliary drive belt system. It's been squealing for a while on start up and had gotten worse recently through a lack of use.
IMG_1063 by Chris Upton, on FlickrIMG_1067 by Chris Upton, on FlickrPrior to ordering a, typically expensive, new part we did take it off and have a closer look at it. It has no identifying part numbers and didn't match any of the numerous idler pulleys we have accumulated fixing many Alfa's.
So we re-greased the bearing and put it back together. But, it was obvious it needed replacing, even though the noise had gone.
It's a relatively easy job though. Staring with removal of the air intake trunking and throttle body as well as the front splitter / under tray.
IMG_1069 by Chris Upton, on FlickrIMG_1080 by Chris Upton, on FlickrIMG_1083 by Chris Upton, on FlickrIMG_1071 by Chris Upton, on FlickrFrom here access to the tensioner is available
IMG_1076 by Chris Upton, on FlickrIMG_8266 by Chris Upton, on FlickrIMG_8269 by Chris Upton, on FlickrIMG_8268 by Chris Upton, on FlickrNew v's Old:
IMG_1087 by Chris Upton, on FlickrInterestingly, the new pulley does have a PN on it:
IMG_1093 by Chris Upton, on FlickrBefore putting it back together, my Dad repaired the frayed pipe protection;
IMG_1095 by Chris Upton, on FlickrIMG_1128 by Chris Upton, on FlickrAnd the under tray a clean;
IMG_1099 by Chris Upton, on FlickrAs ever, any corroded /damaged screws and bolts were also replaced, in this case with stainless ones as they were vulnerable to corrosion;
IMG_1129 by Chris Upton, on FlickrIMG_1134 by Chris Upton, on FlickrThe next job was anti roll bar bushes. As well as the squeal from the idler puller, it was also developing a slight knock from the front end. I've had it apart at least 3 times looking for the cause and found nothing. There's no movement in the wishbones, hub or track rod. I couldn't find any movement in the ARB either, but, being the owners of many Alfas, this is not unfamiliar territory and past experience suggested that the ARB bushes or drop links may be the issue.
Having checked, I knew the ARB bushes were a separate part and access to replace them is very good. I'd go so far as to say, it doesn't get any easier than this as a job, on any car.
IMG_1105-2 by Chris Upton, on FlickrIMG_1104 by Chris Upton, on FlickrIMG_8270 by Chris Upton, on FlickrIMG_1109 by Chris Upton, on FlickrI've not driven it far since, but the acid test is the estate road I live on and when I turn into the driveway. Based on this, I think this has fixed it. Which is a result.
As you might be able to tell, I have a new camera lens. I've been using a Canon 50mm F1.8, one of the really cheap ones but it has served me well. Until dropped it. Again. This time it was terminal. And a replacement was required. I found cheap F1.4 50 on eBay. It just needed a quick clean as it has some dust in it...
IMG_8481 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
Which is why most of the pics below have a really shallow depth of field - I was mostly shooting at f1.4, just to get a feel for the lens. They're not the best photos I've taken. The depth of field is difficult to manage at 1.4, mainly because I was shooting subjects up close.
Anyway. Back to the Maserfarti...
2 simple jobs. The air con was broken and the parking sensors weren't working properly.
I'll start with the air con. The problem with this was fairly obvious. The car's outside temp reading, which is displayed in the instrument cluster, was all over the place from -40 deg c to around +5 indicating a problem with the temp sender which is housed in the driver's door mirror.
IMG_3914 by Zombie, on Flickr
Or course, removing the door mirror requires removing the door card. again. Frankly, I'm getting fed up with taking the door cards off cars at the moment.
IMG_3915 by Zombie, on Flickr
IMG_3929 by Zombie, on Flickr
Of course, with the mirror off, the simple job escalated. It turned out that the mechanic that adjusts the mirror angle (they're electrically adjustable, heated and folding) was broken.
IMG_3934 by Zombie, on Flickr
You'll have to play spot the difference here. There's 2 motors with integrated reduction gearboxes that move the mirror glass in the X and Y planes:
IMG_3944 by Zombie, on Flickr
They operate on racks with ball joints that snap into black donut that retains the glass. The ball joints had snapped off but the mirror would still move. Which is why I hadn't noticed there was a problem with it.
Broken mechanism;
IMG_3937 by Zombie, on Flickr
IMG_3938 by Zombie, on Flickr
And this is what it is supposed to look like:
IMG_3936 by Zombie, on Flickr
Obviously we found a solution in that the door mirror is shared with an Alfa 166 but the electric folding mechanism is not common on 166s. In addition the wiring to the motors is not the same as the spare door mirrors we did have. So fixing this was quite involved. But it is fixed.
Replacing the temp sender was straight forward:
IMG_3950 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
IMG_3946 by Zombie, on Flickr
Obviously, all the bits removed were cleaned up before being refitted as well.
2nd Job. Parking sensors. We ken that one sensor wasn't working properly and that this wa causing the system to intermittently think there was an object within the minimum distance.
Therefore replacement required. Another simple task, except for the fact the rear bumper needs to come off. Which means dismantling the boot. Again.
IMG_3910 by Zombie, on Flickr
IMG_3942 by Zombie, on Flickr
IMG_3961 by Zombie, on Flickr
predictable, it kept raining as soon as significant amount of parts accumulated on the drive necessitating everything to be gently placed back into the boot about 10 times over...
IMG_3953 by Zombie, on Flickr
My Dad and I have had this job mapped out for some time. New parking sensor acquired. Painted. Wiring identified and accounted for.
Sensor changed... Bumper about to go back on, but not before a quick clean;
IMG_3958 by Zombie, on Flickr
IMG_3957 by Zombie, on Flickr
And I looked at the wiring harness from the sensors going back into the car...
IMG_3964 by Chris Upton, on Flickr
Oh. Right. That'll be the problem then...
It had been hanging too low and melted on the exhaust.
I think I'm going to have to take the credit for this fault. Its appears that i didn't pull the wiring harness back into the car after we last had the bumper off. Not a problem though. It just need the damaged section cut out and re connected:
IMG_3970 by Zombie, on Flickr
IMG_3973 by Zombie, on Flickr
With that fixed, the diffuser had a clean along with the bumper and we put it all back together.
IMG_8820 by Zombie, on Flickr
IMG_3977 by Zombie, on Flickr
As a final point, whilst I was yet gain refitting the boot carpets, I did wonder how many 4200's still have their original POS toolkit? I can testify that it is unbranded cheap and nasty rubbish.
IMG_8819 by Zombie, on Flickr
IMG_8481 by Chris Upton, on FlickrWhich is why most of the pics below have a really shallow depth of field - I was mostly shooting at f1.4, just to get a feel for the lens. They're not the best photos I've taken. The depth of field is difficult to manage at 1.4, mainly because I was shooting subjects up close.
Anyway. Back to the Maserfarti...
2 simple jobs. The air con was broken and the parking sensors weren't working properly.
I'll start with the air con. The problem with this was fairly obvious. The car's outside temp reading, which is displayed in the instrument cluster, was all over the place from -40 deg c to around +5 indicating a problem with the temp sender which is housed in the driver's door mirror.
IMG_3914 by Zombie, on FlickrOr course, removing the door mirror requires removing the door card. again. Frankly, I'm getting fed up with taking the door cards off cars at the moment.
IMG_3915 by Zombie, on FlickrIMG_3929 by Zombie, on FlickrOf course, with the mirror off, the simple job escalated. It turned out that the mechanic that adjusts the mirror angle (they're electrically adjustable, heated and folding) was broken.
IMG_3934 by Zombie, on FlickrYou'll have to play spot the difference here. There's 2 motors with integrated reduction gearboxes that move the mirror glass in the X and Y planes:
IMG_3944 by Zombie, on FlickrThey operate on racks with ball joints that snap into black donut that retains the glass. The ball joints had snapped off but the mirror would still move. Which is why I hadn't noticed there was a problem with it.
Broken mechanism;
IMG_3937 by Zombie, on FlickrIMG_3938 by Zombie, on FlickrAnd this is what it is supposed to look like:
IMG_3936 by Zombie, on FlickrObviously we found a solution in that the door mirror is shared with an Alfa 166 but the electric folding mechanism is not common on 166s. In addition the wiring to the motors is not the same as the spare door mirrors we did have. So fixing this was quite involved. But it is fixed.
Replacing the temp sender was straight forward:
IMG_3950 by Chris Upton, on FlickrIMG_3946 by Zombie, on FlickrObviously, all the bits removed were cleaned up before being refitted as well.
2nd Job. Parking sensors. We ken that one sensor wasn't working properly and that this wa causing the system to intermittently think there was an object within the minimum distance.
Therefore replacement required. Another simple task, except for the fact the rear bumper needs to come off. Which means dismantling the boot. Again.
IMG_3910 by Zombie, on FlickrIMG_3942 by Zombie, on FlickrIMG_3961 by Zombie, on Flickrpredictable, it kept raining as soon as significant amount of parts accumulated on the drive necessitating everything to be gently placed back into the boot about 10 times over...
IMG_3953 by Zombie, on FlickrMy Dad and I have had this job mapped out for some time. New parking sensor acquired. Painted. Wiring identified and accounted for.
Sensor changed... Bumper about to go back on, but not before a quick clean;
IMG_3958 by Zombie, on FlickrIMG_3957 by Zombie, on FlickrAnd I looked at the wiring harness from the sensors going back into the car...
IMG_3964 by Chris Upton, on FlickrOh. Right. That'll be the problem then...
It had been hanging too low and melted on the exhaust.
I think I'm going to have to take the credit for this fault. Its appears that i didn't pull the wiring harness back into the car after we last had the bumper off. Not a problem though. It just need the damaged section cut out and re connected:
IMG_3970 by Zombie, on FlickrIMG_3973 by Zombie, on FlickrWith that fixed, the diffuser had a clean along with the bumper and we put it all back together.
IMG_8820 by Zombie, on FlickrIMG_3977 by Zombie, on FlickrAs a final point, whilst I was yet gain refitting the boot carpets, I did wonder how many 4200's still have their original POS toolkit? I can testify that it is unbranded cheap and nasty rubbish.
IMG_8819 by Zombie, on FlickrI was out in mine today - long return trip out to a christening and lunch from London. Had a superb time on Buckinghamshire country roads. It is too noisy though - I need to put the standard backboxes it came with back on. Will keep the X-pipe though.
I do love the Sport button as it totally changes the character of the car - but I would like the sport power, throttle response and gearbox settings, with the comfort dampers. I have heard that there is a modification one can do to allow this?
I do love the Sport button as it totally changes the character of the car - but I would like the sport power, throttle response and gearbox settings, with the comfort dampers. I have heard that there is a modification one can do to allow this?
Well, you may ask who was the lucky winner of this epic example....and it is now mine !
What Zombie has done to the car so impressed me I had to have it and the colour of the paintwork is just gorgeous.
You lot have not met him in person and I have to say he is a really nice fella as well as being prepared to take on the mechanical challenges that would keep the rest of us - mortals - awake at night.
It faced a few challenges of my own. s you know, the insurance on each new car you buy comes with zero NCD. I had discussed this with Chris who related his own annual costs in the first 3 years. I did the usual of checking the comparison sites and they were all quoting me in the £245-300 braket (cheapest), but, as you will observe, the cheapest are in fact agencies, not the main company. So when I went to the link and the pay button it said 'Ring this number to undertake payment'....Okay !
The first company asked me what experience I had of driving performance cars. I have a BMW M6 (V10), thinking that was ease their anguish, to which they replied, "Yes, but do you have any experience of driving performance cars"......which did make me chuckle; but only for a few seconds. They then put me on hold and came back saying it would be £1,030 per year !!!
Needless to say, I just hung up without even telling them they were #######.
Next cheapest ....Adrian Flux, with hwom I have my Alvis TD21 insured. Surely they would behave and not try any deception; WRONG !!!
So another £1,000 quote later and I turned to Aviva, who were £5 more, at £265. Payment straight through and done. Lesson: do not even talk to insurance agents - who are just a bunch of pirates - go for the frist proper insurance provider on the Compare Sits. I gave feenback to Go Compare to say they should be ashemed to allow these lying monkeys on their site.
Five and half hours on the train to get to collect the car....meet Chris and go over the car. The drive back south was a dream and so different to my other cars. So they all complement each other, but I would seriously recommend the Maserati. They put you in contact with the road in a way that connects you to the steering engine and tarmac. But you already know that :-)
200 miles it behaved impeccably, then - in a moving traffic queue - the gearbox went into safe mode and prevented me changing down. Lucky there was a layby ahead as the A34 is a seriously busy road. On limping to a halt the dual paddle pull put it into safe mode. A call to man who would know and after checking the obvious issues (30Amp long fuse) and feeling for the relay activating it was clear the Gearbox Transfer Pump had suffered from the Maser-Gremlins.
The AA were abominable at collecting me.....and 9 hours later they dropped me off at home (60 miles away). Anyone considering the Platnium AA service should consider other companies; and not the RAC, who are worse :-)
I am not detered, I love the car and Zombie has posted me down a new transfer pump. So my next job - on return from hols - to fit the new pump motor and replace that frikken relay with a solid state one.
Don'y expect anything as wonderful as Zombie did, but I will post some pictures of the continuing life of this beautiful car.
What Zombie has done to the car so impressed me I had to have it and the colour of the paintwork is just gorgeous.
You lot have not met him in person and I have to say he is a really nice fella as well as being prepared to take on the mechanical challenges that would keep the rest of us - mortals - awake at night.
It faced a few challenges of my own. s you know, the insurance on each new car you buy comes with zero NCD. I had discussed this with Chris who related his own annual costs in the first 3 years. I did the usual of checking the comparison sites and they were all quoting me in the £245-300 braket (cheapest), but, as you will observe, the cheapest are in fact agencies, not the main company. So when I went to the link and the pay button it said 'Ring this number to undertake payment'....Okay !
The first company asked me what experience I had of driving performance cars. I have a BMW M6 (V10), thinking that was ease their anguish, to which they replied, "Yes, but do you have any experience of driving performance cars"......which did make me chuckle; but only for a few seconds. They then put me on hold and came back saying it would be £1,030 per year !!!
Needless to say, I just hung up without even telling them they were #######.
Next cheapest ....Adrian Flux, with hwom I have my Alvis TD21 insured. Surely they would behave and not try any deception; WRONG !!!
So another £1,000 quote later and I turned to Aviva, who were £5 more, at £265. Payment straight through and done. Lesson: do not even talk to insurance agents - who are just a bunch of pirates - go for the frist proper insurance provider on the Compare Sits. I gave feenback to Go Compare to say they should be ashemed to allow these lying monkeys on their site.
Five and half hours on the train to get to collect the car....meet Chris and go over the car. The drive back south was a dream and so different to my other cars. So they all complement each other, but I would seriously recommend the Maserati. They put you in contact with the road in a way that connects you to the steering engine and tarmac. But you already know that :-)
200 miles it behaved impeccably, then - in a moving traffic queue - the gearbox went into safe mode and prevented me changing down. Lucky there was a layby ahead as the A34 is a seriously busy road. On limping to a halt the dual paddle pull put it into safe mode. A call to man who would know and after checking the obvious issues (30Amp long fuse) and feeling for the relay activating it was clear the Gearbox Transfer Pump had suffered from the Maser-Gremlins.
The AA were abominable at collecting me.....and 9 hours later they dropped me off at home (60 miles away). Anyone considering the Platnium AA service should consider other companies; and not the RAC, who are worse :-)
I am not detered, I love the car and Zombie has posted me down a new transfer pump. So my next job - on return from hols - to fit the new pump motor and replace that frikken relay with a solid state one.
Don'y expect anything as wonderful as Zombie did, but I will post some pictures of the continuing life of this beautiful car.
Church of Noise said:
As F20CN16 said, absolutely spiffing that you're on here, and hoping that you will keep this thread updated.
Enjoy it in good health, they're epic cars and absolutely crazy value for money, imho.
(that being said, mine - a GS Spyder - is currently having its engine rebuilt :-D )
How many miles? Could you tell us what happened, as far as I know the engines are well engineered and well built. Enjoy it in good health, they're epic cars and absolutely crazy value for money, imho.
(that being said, mine - a GS Spyder - is currently having its engine rebuilt :-D )
emix said:
How many miles? Could you tell us what happened, as far as I know the engines are well engineered and well built.
Around 60k.Don't worry, they should be bullet proof indeed.
I believe my car suffered the consequence of being a champagne budget car that significantly depreciated and thus was run on lemonade money when it was the price of a second hand VW Golf. To make matters worse, it looks a lot like one of the previous owners noticed this and tried to hide it.
As with any car of this type, get a good PPI and most of the risks should be identified...
And indeed, my own research also indicates that these can easily run for a multiple of 60k miles.
Got unlucky, that's all.
Anyhow, don't want to go off topic too much
Just logged in to update the thread but it seems I was beaten to it.
Yep. I've sold it. I advertised it on PH and PH only thinking it probably wouldn't sell as it wouldn't get much exposure. I did price it to sell though - I've lost money over what I paid for it but not by a large amount.
Truth is, I didn't want to sell it.
Obviously, I was both disappointed and concerned that it didn't get Nick home. When I spoke with Nick at the time he explained where it had failed and it sounded to be significantly sub optimal.
To clarify, Gransports use a version of the much maligned F1 paddle shift gearboxes that Ferraris of the era also used.
The system relies on hydraulic pressure generated by an electric motor attached that is directly mated to a pump. We think that the hydraulic pump failed. No pressure, no clutch or gear changes.
The pump is regarded as reliable, the integrated motor, less so but not so much that you'd keep one handy, as a spare. But that is exactly what I did do. I bought a genuine (Alfa, same part, different box) pump shortly after buying the car from partsworld when they sent out a discount code. It wasn't cheap but they're not Ferrari/Maserati expensive at £300.
Whilst the sale included some spares, my plan was to sell the pump separately. But, given the current situation, I've given it to Nick and I think we're both hoping it solves the problem.
I just wish it had happened in my ownership rather than leaving a new owner stranded.
Yep. I've sold it. I advertised it on PH and PH only thinking it probably wouldn't sell as it wouldn't get much exposure. I did price it to sell though - I've lost money over what I paid for it but not by a large amount.
Truth is, I didn't want to sell it.
Obviously, I was both disappointed and concerned that it didn't get Nick home. When I spoke with Nick at the time he explained where it had failed and it sounded to be significantly sub optimal.
To clarify, Gransports use a version of the much maligned F1 paddle shift gearboxes that Ferraris of the era also used.
The system relies on hydraulic pressure generated by an electric motor attached that is directly mated to a pump. We think that the hydraulic pump failed. No pressure, no clutch or gear changes.
The pump is regarded as reliable, the integrated motor, less so but not so much that you'd keep one handy, as a spare. But that is exactly what I did do. I bought a genuine (Alfa, same part, different box) pump shortly after buying the car from partsworld when they sent out a discount code. It wasn't cheap but they're not Ferrari/Maserati expensive at £300.
Whilst the sale included some spares, my plan was to sell the pump separately. But, given the current situation, I've given it to Nick and I think we're both hoping it solves the problem.
I just wish it had happened in my ownership rather than leaving a new owner stranded.
Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff