My Shed Mk1 Focus Ghia

[greenarrow]

MC Bodge said:

greenarrow said:

Did it make a noticeable difference to the handling tautness? I'm guessing so.

TBH, I'm getting a bit obsessive here. Its a cheap £500 shed and I should view it as such. Very little point wasting money on aftermarket springs etc. Better value for money would be to replace the two elderly Firestone tyres on the back which feel very hard and IMO are undoubtedly compromising the handling balance. I can get a pair of Avons for £100 and might just do that once the quarantime is over!

We have 15" Rainsports on our 56reg Fiesta Zetec. They work very well.

Good tyre Uniroyal, you cant get Rainsports in my tyre size, instead its Rainexpert3, which is £7 a corner more than Avon. All the tyre prices have fallen on Blackcircles this month, so its certainly something I will bear in mind! Do they have reasonably firm sidewalls? I don't like really squishy sidewall on my car.

[MC Bodge]

greenarrow said:

Good tyre Uniroyal, you cant get Rainsports in my tyre size, instead its Rainexpert3, which is £7 a corner more than Avon. All the tyre prices have fallen on Blackcircles this month, so its certainly something I will bear in mind! Do they have reasonably firm sidewalls? I don't like really squishy sidewall on my car.

Rainexpert were quite soft, but were quite good on my wife's old Mk1 Fabia. I did have some on a Mondeo for a while and found them fine too. The Rainsports are stiffer, they have been my tyre of choice for a while now.

The Avon might be a better bet.

[thebigmacmoomin]

stevemcs said:

I used Eibach springs on my Focus Ghia and it rode very well.

I raided the Ford Accessory catalogue and bought the Eibach springs for both my Zetec's (1 was a Collection) and I did prefer it. Also preferred 215/45/17 tyres to the rubber bands that are 205/40/17.

[thebigmacmoomin]

greenarrow said:

thebigmacmoomin said:

MC Bodge said:

My year 2000 2.0 Zetec estate on 16" rims handled very well at the time.

A rental 1.6 Zetec hatch also handled well.

A long term rental 1.4 CL saloon (abroad. Rare in the UK) handled more softly. There was a noticeable difference when I drove my own car whilst back at home.

Zetec's had better suspension. Very noticeable when dad got rid of his Zetec Mk1 for a Ghia Mk1.5.

I think it depends on what you mean better - as per my previous post, both used the same dampers, so it comes down to springs, where the Zetec used lower springs than the Ghia. Certainly the Zetec is tauter, which feels nicer when your pitching into roundabouts etc, but having owned both myself, I would say the Ghia might be a tad better on a really bumpy backroad, where its better ride height and higher profile tyres means it never seems to get caught out over yumps and compressions.

I probably prefer the Zetec as a daily, but the Ghia is by no means bad.

I just preferred the stiffer sportier Zetec to the softer Ghia. Never liked the Ghia seats, the Zetec ones held you nicely where the Ghia ones didn't at all. I did swap to ST170 half leather in one of mine.

[greenarrow]

thebigmacmoomin said:

I just preferred the stiffer sportier Zetec to the softer Ghia. Never liked the Ghia seats, the Zetec ones held you nicely where the Ghia ones didn't at all. I did swap to ST170 half leather in one of mine.

Yeah I think I'm with you on that. I remember my old Zetec being incredibly planted and almost unstickable in the dry for what it was. The Ghia always feels like its floating a bit. However, I need a car pronto after my old one was written off and this was about the most solid looking Mk1 Focus that popped up at the time in my banger price bracket locally, so I couldn't be too picky. Its also been great during this years winter commute, as the roads I use are really breaking up badly and the Ghia just seems to plough on regardless, being that bit softer!

[s m]

MC Bodge said:

<cough>Cut springs? </cough>

I would have thought a set of the equivalent engined ( or closest in weight ) OEM Zetec springs would be ideal as they’ve already been through the whole NVH R&D process
That’s if you were happy with the Zetec ride/handling balance

[MC Bodge]

greenarrow said:

Yeah I think I'm with you on that. I remember my old Zetec being incredibly planted and almost unstickable in the dry for what it was. The Ghia always feels like its floating a bit. However, I need a car pronto after my old one was written off and this was about the most solid looking Mk1 Focus that popped up at the time in my banger price bracket locally, so I couldn't be too picky. Its also been great during this years winter commute, as the roads I use are really breaking up badly and the Ghia just seems to plough on regardless, being that bit softer!

Don't forget that it's an old car. The dampers are worn.

The difference in springs may not be that significant, even if the feel is slightly different.
Admittedly, our old (but only 70odd K miles) Fiesta Zetec does feel quite good.

[greenarrow]

MC Bodge said:

Don't forget that it's an old car. The dampers are worn.

The difference in springs may not be that significant, even if the feel is slightly different.
Admittedly, our old (but only 70odd K miles) Fiesta Zetec does feel quite good.

Yeah the dampers are old and I think I read on the Focus forum that the Zetec and Ghia have similar springs, the Zetec ones are just shorter giving lower ride height and I think that's pretty much all it is. A lot of guys on the Focus FB site I use have lowered their phase 1 Ghias and I can see why.

We've got a similar age Fiesta to you, also on 80K miles which still feels good. Its the ST150 and it drives very tightly indeed. That gen Fiesta (the Mk6) is a really solid little car. Absolutely no rust after 15 years which is not something you can say about most Focus Mk1s of the same age.....

[MC Bodge]

greenarrow said:

Yeah the dampers are old and I think I read on the Focus forum that the Zetec and Ghia have similar springs, the Zetec ones are just shorter giving lower ride height and I think that's pretty much all it is. A lot of guys on the Focus FB site I use have lowered their phase 1 Ghias and I can see why.

We've got a similar age Fiesta to you, also on 80K miles which still feels good. Its the ST150 and it drives very tightly indeed. That gen Fiesta (the Mk6) is a really solid little car. Absolutely no rust after 15 years which is not something you can say about most Focus Mk1s of the same age.....

A shorter spring of the same steel is stiffer than A longer one.

[greenarrow]

So I got up early this morning and drove to the shops for some essentials and took the scenic route home, as I believe older cars in particular really don't like standing around for weeks without use. It was very quiet and my route took me along an old favourite sub B category backroad near my home in East Dorset. Bumpy in places, reasonably narrow and pretty twisty. I've got to say, that was one of the best drives I have had in years. Its one of those roads where even the NSL bits are best taken at no more than NSL pace due to the bumpy surface and frequency of some fairly switchback type corners and the old Focus just lapped it up. I'm sure I may have had a few inches of air over one hump and the ageing dampers combined with rock hard Firestone tyres did show their age on a few bits, where the back got a bit wobbly, but honestly I could not have had more fun in a brand new £40K hot hatch.

It seems I've accidently tripped over motoring nirvana. What I mean by this is; I've a car that was so cheap to buy its disposable to me and in truth I could afford to buy a similar priced replacement Mk1 Focus every single month of the year, yet on early morning country lane drives, its as much fun as any of the cars I've owned (apart from perhaps my diddy Cincequento Sporting which was THE backroad king!!) ..... this car was meant as a stop gap, but its got me seriously wondering about what I would replace it with and how much I should spend!

[p4cks]

greenarrow said:

this car was meant as a stop gap, but its got me seriously wondering about what I would replace it with and how much I should spend!

this happens to me almost daily. I'll spend an evening looking on eBay and AT etc at other cars and think that I'd want <insert whatever replacement here> then I'd get in my shed and ask myself what does the potential replacement do better than this? The answer is invariably 'nothing'.

[s m]

Excellent

Cheap cars are often the most fun - I take my Mum her shopping once a week or so and I try and time it late on a Friday so the supermarket is as quiet as possible - the upside is the roads are pretty deserted too

My cheap, old Ford is also the most fun for me - had it for ages but so great to drive - they don’t make them like they used to!

[mercedeslimos]

Any time I got my hands on my mother's old diesel estate MK1, it was the same. Bit of shudder from the worn inner CV joints on hard throttle, but rewarding drive, soft and compliant yet nimble and can be thrown around with ruthless abandon. The 185/60/14 tyres had enough roll and narrow width to feel the road beneath you. Most cars nowadays mask the road, the Focus you actually felt as if you were driving.

[TheJimi]

rickygolf83 said:

Good result so far ??

If going ep3, try for a type r for even more fun times and ability to shift easily come sale time

An EP3 *IS* the Type R.


OP, be prepared for a big step backwards in steering feeback between the Focus and an EP3 when you drive one.

Having owned both, albeit the Focus was the 1.6 Zetec, as an everyday driving proposition, I'd be reluctant to go from a decent Mk1 Focus to an EP3.

Edited by TheJimi on Tuesday 14th April 15:05

[greenarrow]

TheJimi said:

An EP3 *IS* the Type R.


OP, be prepared for a big step backwards in steering feeback between the Focus and an EP3 when you drive one.

Having owned both, albeit the Focus was the 1.6 Zetec, as an everyday driving proposition, I'd be reluctant to go from a decent Mk1 Focus to an EP3.

Edited by TheJimi on Tuesday 14th April 15:05

That's interesting, is the steering on the EP3 as bad as people say? I've never driven one btw. Having owned Zetec and Ghia 1.6 Focus' I can tell you the steering and feedback is similar, the Zetec is just that bit tauter thanks to its lowered suspension, so your comments based on your Zetec are very interesting!

Edited by greenarrow on Tuesday 14th April 15:18

[greenarrow]

mercedeslimos said:

Any time I got my hands on my mother's old diesel estate MK1, it was the same. Bit of shudder from the worn inner CV joints on hard throttle, but rewarding drive, soft and compliant yet nimble and can be thrown around with ruthless abandon. The 185/60/14 tyres had enough roll and narrow width to feel the road beneath you. Most cars nowadays mask the road, the Focus you actually felt as if you were driving.

Reading your post reminds me of my first trip to France in 2004. Driving a typically hard riding Audi A3 Sport TDI on a french backroad, I was dropped by an old french hatchback, something slow like a Renault 5 or a Peugeot 205 Diesel. My Audi was just too bouncy for the road surface, whereas the old french car just sailed on regardless.

The Focus is quite french in that the suspension is soft enough to allow the wheels to remain in contact with the road no matter how bumpy it gets. I thought having 14 inch wheels it would lack grip, but on cross country jaunts that's simply not true! Great steering too. Its a shame that steering feel and suspension compliance has disappeared from so many newer cars.

[TheJimi]

For the sake of balance, I'm slighly biased against the EP3, since I didn't really enjoy my ownership of the car.

In terms of suspension, mine had a few tweaks - eibachs, camber bolts / arms etc, a well setup well setup geo & decent Bridgestones.

Don't get me wrong, the feedback wasn't properly terrible, but it was bad enough to annoy me, since my car was primarily a weekend / high days & holidays car. A role, incidently, that it just doesn't play well.

As a daily driver, it's just another hatcback with crashy suspension (the eibachs actually make it more compliant, which still isn't saying much!) As a toy, it doesn't really gel until you're properly on it with everything loaded up.

So it represented the worst of both worlds for me.

However, the engine and drivetrain are awesome, and in fairness, on the right road with a nice surface, it's an enjoyable drive.

So yeah, I honestly woudn't spend the extra money on an EP3 as a daily driver over a nice Mk1 Focus.

Edited by TheJimi on Tuesday 14th April 15:57

[vikingaero]

greenarrow said:

So I got up early this morning and drove to the shops for some essentials and took the scenic route home, as I believe older cars in particular really don't like standing around for weeks without use. It was very quiet and my route took me along an old favourite sub B category backroad near my home in East Dorset. Bumpy in places, reasonably narrow and pretty twisty. I've got to say, that was one of the best drives I have had in years. Its one of those roads where even the NSL bits are best taken at no more than NSL pace due to the bumpy surface and frequency of some fairly switchback type corners and the old Focus just lapped it up. I'm sure I may have had a few inches of air over one hump and the ageing dampers combined with rock hard Firestone tyres did show their age on a few bits, where the back got a bit wobbly, but honestly I could not have had more fun in a brand new £40K hot hatch.

It seems I've accidently tripped over motoring nirvana. What I mean by this is; I've a car that was so cheap to buy its disposable to me and in truth I could afford to buy a similar priced replacement Mk1 Focus every single month of the year, yet on early morning country lane drives, its as much fun as any of the cars I've owned (apart from perhaps my diddy Cincequento Sporting which was THE backroad king!!) ..... this car was meant as a stop gap, but its got me seriously wondering about what I would replace it with and how much I should spend!

I truely think that some people who drive nice new cars would do well to drive a shed. When I get back into any modern car after driving my Daihatsu Charade, I really appreciate the NVH, comfort, smoothness and power of a modern car! Sometimes, like you say it's the purity and simplicity of the drivetrain and engine. There's one junction near me where all my other cars seem to struggle, on the BMW it gets caught in the wrong gear, on my old Clubman the turbo lag was annoying, on the Passat the autobox is in too high a gear, yet in the Daihatsu it's just pure (limited) linear power.

I bought the Charade as a stopgap after the MINI lunched its turbo and I needed a car for 8 weeks for £495. I thought I would sell it after 8 weeks, but 5 years later it's still on my drive. I'm going to run it until it dies. It still makes me laugh - 155/65/13 tyres for £21 each, going for rescue practice where none of my colleagues would drive their 4x4's along the deep rutted track and yet I dragged the Daihatsu along by its belly, using the car to push-start other cars, or moving skips by pushing them!

The epiphany for me was when the Operation Stack was in force about 6 years ago. To drive home, I would have to queue at the A249/M20 junction for over an hour to get home. If I took a parallel country lane it would take 45 mins because of having to stop start nature of the narrow country lane. Then I took the Charade and it fitted perfectly. I had a RRS and 911 behind me and I soon lost them because I never had to stop for oncoming cars and the tall narrow tyres didn't mind the craters on the side of the lane. Total time was 25 minutes door to door. Sometimes a shed is "just right".

[MC Bodge]

greenarrow said:

Reading your post reminds me of my first trip to France in 2004. Driving a typically hard riding Audi A3 Sport TDI on a french backroad, I was dropped by an old french hatchback, something slow like a Renault 5 or a Peugeot 205 Diesel. My Audi was just too bouncy for the road surface, whereas the old french car just sailed on regardless.

The Focus is quite french in that the suspension is soft enough to allow the wheels to remain in contact with the road no matter how bumpy it gets.

There is a lot to be said for compliant suspension for roads - UK roads are not exactly smooth tracks.

I often read people complaining that a car suspension is "wallowy", when what they appear to want is "too firm". Modern cars are rarely wallowy, but many are too firm.

[mercedeslimos]

greenarrow said:

Reading your post reminds me of my first trip to France in 2004. Driving a typically hard riding Audi A3 Sport TDI on a french backroad, I was dropped by an old french hatchback, something slow like a Renault 5 or a Peugeot 205 Diesel. My Audi was just too bouncy for the road surface, whereas the old french car just sailed on regardless.

The Focus is quite french in that the suspension is soft enough to allow the wheels to remain in contact with the road no matter how bumpy it gets. I thought having 14 inch wheels it would lack grip, but on cross country jaunts that's simply not true! Great steering too. Its a shame that steering feel and suspension compliance has disappeared from so many newer cars.

Based on them having that car (Its replacement was a diesel Rover 75, another top comfortable shed) I have bought a MK4 facelift Mondeo which has the same type of control blade suspension. I put some 16" steelies on for the winter and with 215/60 (Galaxy size, too big slightly) it's unstoppable. Very similar gearchange and characteristics from the Peugeot 2.0 HDi unit (lag then whoosh) compared to the old TDDi Lynx unit.