R5GTT project - off the road from 1998 to 2014
Discussion
09 March 2020
30th Birthday Celebrations
Hello Folks,
Just a few pics of the car outside Holdens Renault (was Reliance Garage) on its
30th birthday. The reaction to it on Facebook has blown me away; it also
really surprised Holdens!
After a gap of 21 months, it was good to get a blast out on my own. There are however
some really dangerous idiots out there who seem to think, oh it's just an old car, I'll cut
it up. Good job I have good brakes and oh what fun, they can be shown a clean pair..!
One thing that happened that's a little worrying. Below 1200rpm I kept getting the oil
pressure light come on. It looks like the engine is too clean and I'll have to use a
slightly heavier grade oil...
Regards,
Steve
30th Birthday Celebrations
Hello Folks,
Just a few pics of the car outside Holdens Renault (was Reliance Garage) on its
30th birthday. The reaction to it on Facebook has blown me away; it also
really surprised Holdens!
After a gap of 21 months, it was good to get a blast out on my own. There are however
some really dangerous idiots out there who seem to think, oh it's just an old car, I'll cut
it up. Good job I have good brakes and oh what fun, they can be shown a clean pair..!
One thing that happened that's a little worrying. Below 1200rpm I kept getting the oil
pressure light come on. It looks like the engine is too clean and I'll have to use a
slightly heavier grade oil...
Regards,
Steve
Edited by LowiePete on Sunday 5th April 14:26
Hello Folks,
A few people enquire about what it costs to restore a car like this.
The answer is a lot of money, plenty of patience and not a little
frustration! That's the cold / hard description. However, in an
answer on another thread...
Steve
A few people enquire about what it costs to restore a car like this.
The answer is a lot of money, plenty of patience and not a little
frustration! That's the cold / hard description. However, in an
answer on another thread...
LowiePete said:
Overall?
Well, for my R5 I set a budget of no more than what the car cost new.
That was the finite amount, come what may! Then I found that I still
had a solid car _not_ requiring a welded replica to be created, so I
relaxed a little. When that amount quite quickly got overtaken by more
than 30p or so, my man-maths allowed for the past servicing costs,
then the past fuel costs to also be taken into account.
After that, it's dictated by: "Well, I saved some money here, so..."
If there's any self-doubt, then it's: "Well, just look at the fine work
so far..!"
It becomes simply a choice of: "Money up against the wall, or not?"
Yeah, you'll stub your toe a time or two, but out the other side and
it's a dragon slain, even if the pester brigade awaits
In the end, it's about the challenge and the satisfaction of having
done the best you can to overcome it. Money = bits of plastic (you'll
find little exchange of coin happens) that sometimes gets in the way.
Regards,Well, for my R5 I set a budget of no more than what the car cost new.
That was the finite amount, come what may! Then I found that I still
had a solid car _not_ requiring a welded replica to be created, so I
relaxed a little. When that amount quite quickly got overtaken by more
than 30p or so, my man-maths allowed for the past servicing costs,
then the past fuel costs to also be taken into account.
After that, it's dictated by: "Well, I saved some money here, so..."
If there's any self-doubt, then it's: "Well, just look at the fine work
so far..!"
It becomes simply a choice of: "Money up against the wall, or not?"
Yeah, you'll stub your toe a time or two, but out the other side and
it's a dragon slain, even if the pester brigade awaits
In the end, it's about the challenge and the satisfaction of having
done the best you can to overcome it. Money = bits of plastic (you'll
find little exchange of coin happens) that sometimes gets in the way.
Steve
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Brilliant thread, thanks very much for posting.
hotrod30 said:
A truly outstanding achievement... your video blog was awesome.
Kudos to you sir!
What a lovely car and great colour, I hope you continue to enjoy it.
Thanks guys! I've said that Karl, my mechanical genius, was a manKudos to you sir!
What a lovely car and great colour, I hope you continue to enjoy it.
of few words, well, even now he hides the pride in his work just as
cleverly as he wields his tools. I have been blessed with his "art".
There was a point where the dash had to come out a second time, so
the opportunity was taken to rewire the bodged job of the aftermarket
alarm. Adding a Toad immobiliser was part of the mix. Now, when you
look under there you would be very hard pressed to believe that the
car didn't leave the factory with the wiring exactly like it is. His total
patience and meticulous work is just breathtaking!
It proves to me that these guys appreciate a customer who looks
after their motor by doing their best for you and enjoying it. I've
had this car since 1994 and it was always Karl who serviced it at my
local dealership back then. Even though I was doing a high mileage,
I kept the car immaculate and it was clear that he took some pride
in matching me with his maintenance skills. Even today with my
Laguna Coupe, a car he's also maintained since new, I always feel
a performance improvement when I get it back from a service.
I truly will be enjoying this car; it won't be for sale until I have had all
the fun intended. Last Sunday it was meant to be out on a Memorial
Run of former "Pirates" and today on show at the American Diner
with the East Coast Pirates in Great Yarmouth. The latter was held as
a virtual gathering on FB. Look them up and feast your eyes on some
great machines.
Regards,
Steve
Edited by LowiePete on Sunday 5th April 15:18
Wow - what a thread!
I couldn't help smiling when I read 'Reliance Renault' in Height Street - I remember it well!
The design of the car still looks fresh to my eyes - if they launched it today with an electric motor (washing mouth out) everyone would be wowed.
Great car, great thread. Keep well and keep it up!
I couldn't help smiling when I read 'Reliance Renault' in Height Street - I remember it well!
The design of the car still looks fresh to my eyes - if they launched it today with an electric motor (washing mouth out) everyone would be wowed.
Great car, great thread. Keep well and keep it up!
Missing post - June 2017
Hello Folks,
After a few weeks of being on the road, one constant annoyance was
the new stainless steel exhaust. No matter what we tried, it would end
up rattling against the body near to the rear torsion beam housing.
There was nothing for it, but to replace it.
So, an appointment was made to visit Demand Engineering near to
Stonham Barns in Suffolk, with a view to replacing the silencer and
its tailpipe with something that wasn't quite 1990s penile extension.
Below are some pictures of the result...
The placement of the clamp seen in the first picture means that there
is some adjustment away from the body or the torsion beam. This has
been rotated 90deg clockwise since.
The new silencer is around an inch shorter than the existing one so
gives us more body clearance...
A much tidier tailpipe end too...
I had hoped that the tail pipe might be slightly tapered "à le deVil", but
they didn't have the tooling to achieve it. Provision has been made for a
modification to be made at a later date.
Of course, talking of a new exhaust is no good if there isn't a video of
how good it sounds. So, here it is...
The Demand Engineering Exhaust
The length of the tailpipe is slightly longer than usual, but the end
matches exactly 90deg down from the bumper edge. This was a
deliberate decision to compensate a little for the lack of trumpet.
I really like its purposeful burble and subtle chatter on overrun.
To some, it might sound quite tame. However, with turbo at full
chat in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears, you will know you've been R5..ed!
In 5th gear, it settles down to a satisfying chant from a performance car.
It's at this point where you know that the rattle suppression pads in the
doors and side panels are doing their bit. Exhaust sound now has little
interference from road noise as does the sound system, if it's on!
In the end, the bespoke stainless steel system, including the original
silencer, worked out a few quid cheaper than what I was quoted for an
OE system in mild steel. Win! Win!
Regards,
Steve
P.S. Can I welcome those who have subscribed to my Youtube Channel through this thread
Hello Folks,
After a few weeks of being on the road, one constant annoyance was
the new stainless steel exhaust. No matter what we tried, it would end
up rattling against the body near to the rear torsion beam housing.
There was nothing for it, but to replace it.
So, an appointment was made to visit Demand Engineering near to
Stonham Barns in Suffolk, with a view to replacing the silencer and
its tailpipe with something that wasn't quite 1990s penile extension.
Below are some pictures of the result...
The placement of the clamp seen in the first picture means that there
is some adjustment away from the body or the torsion beam. This has
been rotated 90deg clockwise since.
The new silencer is around an inch shorter than the existing one so
gives us more body clearance...
A much tidier tailpipe end too...
I had hoped that the tail pipe might be slightly tapered "à le deVil", but
they didn't have the tooling to achieve it. Provision has been made for a
modification to be made at a later date.
Of course, talking of a new exhaust is no good if there isn't a video of
how good it sounds. So, here it is...
The Demand Engineering Exhaust
The length of the tailpipe is slightly longer than usual, but the end
matches exactly 90deg down from the bumper edge. This was a
deliberate decision to compensate a little for the lack of trumpet.
I really like its purposeful burble and subtle chatter on overrun.
To some, it might sound quite tame. However, with turbo at full
chat in 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears, you will know you've been R5..ed!
In 5th gear, it settles down to a satisfying chant from a performance car.
It's at this point where you know that the rattle suppression pads in the
doors and side panels are doing their bit. Exhaust sound now has little
interference from road noise as does the sound system, if it's on!
In the end, the bespoke stainless steel system, including the original
silencer, worked out a few quid cheaper than what I was quoted for an
OE system in mild steel. Win! Win!
Regards,
Steve
P.S. Can I welcome those who have subscribed to my Youtube Channel through this thread
Edited by LowiePete on Wednesday 17th June 14:59
Mistrale said:
The design of the car still looks fresh to my eyes - if they launched it today with an electric motor (washing mouth out) everyone would be wowed.
Thanks for your kind comments. It isn't really an electric motor thatmight cause the nausea. It'll be all the gubbins mandated by the EU
that would directly interfere with the sheer fun this car instils. Apart
from its rudimentary AEI, there is no computer control of anything
and the steering is heavy with no power assistance. So, it's you, the
turbo-lagged throttle, raw suspension and heavy steering. Fantastic!
Anyway, by the time that the designers had finished, the new R5GTT
would probably be a tad bloated (à le Mini) and also have its power to
weight ratio interfered with. It's the car's lightness which causes the
rear wheel to behave the way it does on corners, so I doubt that Jean
Ragnotti could do his 360s @ 90 mph either.
I was surprised at how well the car stood its ground amongst the
newer machinery. I bought the car following a magic spell in a
Renault 11 Turbo so thought of this as a step backwards in my car
acquisition history. It's undeniable that it has become an icon though.
What is probably not clear from the thread is that we abandoned the
progress made with installing power assisted steering due to problems
associated with the major delays. Let's just say there was some petty
behaviour which forced our hand. However, from our exploits so far,
we know there is space to achieve this in the future.
Regards,
Steve
Captain_Morgan said:
I believe on other projects folks have used electric ps pumps from A-class mercs or Vauxhall corsa’s when retro fitting ps. It might be an option?
Ta, we have an electric pump out of a Citroen Saxo, I believe,which will fit nicely inside the well on the opposite side of the
battery. It's a case of machining some parts to attach to the
rack and creating the plumbing.
We're going to attempt to completely clear the snag list first.
As ever with these cars, it's the bedevilling carburettor set-up.
Then another rolling road session to get classy tickover. There's
an issue with a weep from the petrol tank, despite 2 attempts to
cure it. The turbo itself is the untouched original, and although
its bearings seem sound for their age, that might go out for an
overhaul too.
So, the PS will probably need to wait until next year at this rate.
Regards,
Steve
LowiePete said:
Thanks for your kind comments. It isn't really an electric motor that
might cause the nausea. It'll be all the gubbins mandated by the EU
that would directly interfere with the sheer fun this car instils. Apart
from its rudimentary AEI, there is no computer control of anything
and the steering is heavy with no power assistance. So, it's you, the
turbo-lagged throttle, raw suspension and heavy steering. Fantastic!
Anyway, by the time that the designers had finished, the new R5GTT
would probably be a tad bloated (à le Mini) and also have its power to
weight ratio interfered with. It's the car's lightness which causes the
rear wheel to behave the way it does on corners, so I doubt that Jean
Ragnotti could do his 360s @ 90 mph either.
I was surprised at how well the car stood its ground amongst the
newer machinery. I bought the car following a magic spell in a
Renault 11 Turbo so thought of this as a step backwards in my car
acquisition history. It's undeniable that it has become an icon though.
What is probably not clear from the thread is that we abandoned the
progress made with installing power assisted steering due to problems
associated with the major delays. Let's just say there was some petty
behaviour which forced our hand. However, from our exploits so far,
we know there is space to achieve this in the future.
Regards,
Steve
Hi Steve,might cause the nausea. It'll be all the gubbins mandated by the EU
that would directly interfere with the sheer fun this car instils. Apart
from its rudimentary AEI, there is no computer control of anything
and the steering is heavy with no power assistance. So, it's you, the
turbo-lagged throttle, raw suspension and heavy steering. Fantastic!
Anyway, by the time that the designers had finished, the new R5GTT
would probably be a tad bloated (à le Mini) and also have its power to
weight ratio interfered with. It's the car's lightness which causes the
rear wheel to behave the way it does on corners, so I doubt that Jean
Ragnotti could do his 360s @ 90 mph either.
I was surprised at how well the car stood its ground amongst the
newer machinery. I bought the car following a magic spell in a
Renault 11 Turbo so thought of this as a step backwards in my car
acquisition history. It's undeniable that it has become an icon though.
What is probably not clear from the thread is that we abandoned the
progress made with installing power assisted steering due to problems
associated with the major delays. Let's just say there was some petty
behaviour which forced our hand. However, from our exploits so far,
we know there is space to achieve this in the future.
Regards,
Steve
Great work on the car.
I went through a similar process back in 2012 when I purchased a tungsten grey 1991 GT Turbo from its first owner - a lady who had bought it new as her first car when she was 17!
Despite having sat on her driveway from 2005-2012, it was in remarkably good order but had covered just 42,000 miles.
You are probably aware but I believe the Monaco edition Renault 5 came with power steering so might be possible to still source the required parts.
I decided to keep mine 100% original right down to the exhaust and boost pressure which had never been adjusted.
If you need a Renault 5 GT Turbo carb expert, I know a man who could help.
He rebuilt mine when I purchased it due to the time it had been sat with old fuel which had turned to jelly. With a very thorough clean and the new seal kit you bought, fuelling adjusted, the car ran perfectly (incl. idle) from then on, running it daily for two years as my company car!
LowiePete said:
Hi A,
Cheers for your reply. :agree:
Someone on the Detailing World Forum suggested that I get _all_ my spares from Mike
at GT Turbo Spares, including the brake parts. Sounds like a simple solution. It would
certainly save me hours and hours of chasing my tail on t'interweb...
Regards,
Steve
His ££ parts prices are ludicrous. Ive had probably 25 5 GT Turbos, i bought my first in 91. I finally got out of 5 Turbos in 2017, simply because nearly all OE body panels and trim parts are almost impossible to find ( I was offered a rear 1/4 for £500 quid, guy thought he was doing me a favour, by selling it cheaply ! ) and when they do come up, they are ££ taxed to the hilt. Cheers for your reply. :agree:
A said:
Steve - I popped some EBC yellows up front and Exceliums at the rear and both grip well. If you're not tracking her I'd go with the exceliums all round, cheap and effective stopping (too effective in my case :sad2
Do you have a link?Someone on the Detailing World Forum suggested that I get _all_ my spares from Mike
at GT Turbo Spares, including the brake parts. Sounds like a simple solution. It would
certainly save me hours and hours of chasing my tail on t'interweb...
Regards,
Steve
You can still buy service parts etc from the major factors out there and save yourself £££.
For anything 5 specific, I bought most of my parts from CGB. A great guy, Very easy to deal with and great £ prices and knowledge of these cars.
Edited by neutral 3 on Monday 20th April 00:30
Edited by neutral 3 on Monday 20th April 00:51
Well, parts for the R5GTT have always had a premium. Mike at GT
Spares has been useful for some obscure parts. There's a guy on
Facebook who is fleecing all and sundry with prices that are eye-
wateringly stupid; yet people will pay and be very defensive of their
claimed purchasing nouse! This on a group intended for members to
help each other easily find parts.
I left the OE FB Group simply because it was nothing more than
owners' willie-waving, trying to turn owning the car from a load of
fun into a boring cheque-book sport. They're only creating replicas
as fewer and fewer non-service parts of the car were actually
attached at the factory. Also, doesn't it kinda destroy the idea of OE?
I've not had much luck with CGB, they wanted to charge me £11
postage for a set of caliper kits, that weigh about the same as a
Mars bar. As it happened, I managed to buy them from the dealer,
with change to spare. Prices from Mike & CGB are more or less
comparable these days as the captive market starts to dwindle
and encourage higher prices.
On my car, one of CGB's "uprated" engine mounts has already given
up, with the others compromised as a result. When you have parts
ready to use hanging about for many months before they are fitted,
guarantees are often exhausted first. My experience with the seals,
as a once regular customer of theirs, has put me off anyway. I'm not
impressed either by a charge of £22 for 10 salvaged clips that cost
30p each from Renault dealers.
In my opinion, there are still too many R5GTTs extant to support
a continued rise in value. What is not known is the number of
unmolested examples and whether the demand for OE will be
continuing. I could not afford to start from scratch these days!
When you can buy parts for an Aston Martin at a fraction of those
I've seen asked, it's a good job that resale values of the R5GTT are
climbing. Even so, asking North of 20 grand drives away those in the
originally intended buying market into the arms of "investors" who
simply want to dry-store the car while it gathers even more monetary
value. Luckily, I'm soon able to distinguish their intentions and I'm
inured to their withering looks as I slowly shake my head in refusal.
If after a few minutes the word "fun" is not uttered...
Regards,
Steve
Spares has been useful for some obscure parts. There's a guy on
Facebook who is fleecing all and sundry with prices that are eye-
wateringly stupid; yet people will pay and be very defensive of their
claimed purchasing nouse! This on a group intended for members to
help each other easily find parts.
I left the OE FB Group simply because it was nothing more than
owners' willie-waving, trying to turn owning the car from a load of
fun into a boring cheque-book sport. They're only creating replicas
as fewer and fewer non-service parts of the car were actually
attached at the factory. Also, doesn't it kinda destroy the idea of OE?
I've not had much luck with CGB, they wanted to charge me £11
postage for a set of caliper kits, that weigh about the same as a
Mars bar. As it happened, I managed to buy them from the dealer,
with change to spare. Prices from Mike & CGB are more or less
comparable these days as the captive market starts to dwindle
and encourage higher prices.
On my car, one of CGB's "uprated" engine mounts has already given
up, with the others compromised as a result. When you have parts
ready to use hanging about for many months before they are fitted,
guarantees are often exhausted first. My experience with the seals,
as a once regular customer of theirs, has put me off anyway. I'm not
impressed either by a charge of £22 for 10 salvaged clips that cost
30p each from Renault dealers.
In my opinion, there are still too many R5GTTs extant to support
a continued rise in value. What is not known is the number of
unmolested examples and whether the demand for OE will be
continuing. I could not afford to start from scratch these days!
When you can buy parts for an Aston Martin at a fraction of those
I've seen asked, it's a good job that resale values of the R5GTT are
climbing. Even so, asking North of 20 grand drives away those in the
originally intended buying market into the arms of "investors" who
simply want to dry-store the car while it gathers even more monetary
value. Luckily, I'm soon able to distinguish their intentions and I'm
inured to their withering looks as I slowly shake my head in refusal.
If after a few minutes the word "fun" is not uttered...
Regards,
Steve
Edited by LowiePete on Sunday 26th April 19:25
Well, ahead of taxing the car, even if I can't get out while I'm out and about,
I've been giving the 5th gear jumping some thought. The car is going back to
Karl because we have a 3rd time leak from the fuel bung. This time the tank is
coming out!
So, I've been doing some research and this site looks very interesting...
AUXAL French manufacturers and providers of rare parts... this includes a few other rarities from that country.
and in particular, these...
R5GTT Engine Mounts
They also have these...
Gear lever return spring kits
and these...
Clutch Pedal repair kits
If I remember correctly, the bonnet insulation pad came from this manufacturer, so
there won't be an issue over quality. This seems a bargain to the prices I've seen
asked for one of these...
Radiator Top Hose with bleed valve
So mebbe time to spend, spend, spend!
Regards,
Steve
I've been giving the 5th gear jumping some thought. The car is going back to
Karl because we have a 3rd time leak from the fuel bung. This time the tank is
coming out!
So, I've been doing some research and this site looks very interesting...
AUXAL French manufacturers and providers of rare parts... this includes a few other rarities from that country.
and in particular, these...
R5GTT Engine Mounts
They also have these...
Gear lever return spring kits
and these...
Clutch Pedal repair kits
If I remember correctly, the bonnet insulation pad came from this manufacturer, so
there won't be an issue over quality. This seems a bargain to the prices I've seen
asked for one of these...
Radiator Top Hose with bleed valve
So mebbe time to spend, spend, spend!
Regards,
Steve
So, back to 2020...
Here's the replacement engine mounts. I'm a bit mystified because one of them is
clearly marked as being made by MapCo. Nowhere on the Auxal site does it tell us
this. They seem to give the air that it's them who manufacture rather than sell other
manufacturers' items. Has anyone got any experience of MapCo creations - are
they any good?
Now these were quite a find! When Karl came to collect them, he queried whether they
were ever fitted to the GTT - with the view that perhaps these were only made for the
Monaco. My question to him being would they make them in 2 colours; I had a thought
in the back of my mind there were two part numbers. Nevertheless, after many years of
searching they're going to be painted in flat grey and going in place...
Sorry, I forgot to mention that they are trims to clip onto the face of the rear seat
squab brackets.
Coming next and last of the major expenses is the actual T2 turbo rebuild. A really
expensive time in lockdown, but it's very exciting nonetheless. I have sent two to
be rebuilt. The original one off the car, which is in good nick, will be mothballed for
the time, if ever, when the car becomes a museum or showroom piece.
Being as the intention is to drive the car and the T2 turbo is becoming a bit of a rarity,
I'm having one rebuilt to put on the car, so that completes the car's fettling, and I'll
have another for spare as a key component. This to join other parts I have put aside.
I've had my quote back from the rebuilders and they're taking some stage photos of
their process for me. Watch this space
Yet again, some excitement generated by this car, though I can't wait to go out
hooning in it, sooner rather than later...
Regards,
Steve
Here's the replacement engine mounts. I'm a bit mystified because one of them is
clearly marked as being made by MapCo. Nowhere on the Auxal site does it tell us
this. They seem to give the air that it's them who manufacture rather than sell other
manufacturers' items. Has anyone got any experience of MapCo creations - are
they any good?
Now these were quite a find! When Karl came to collect them, he queried whether they
were ever fitted to the GTT - with the view that perhaps these were only made for the
Monaco. My question to him being would they make them in 2 colours; I had a thought
in the back of my mind there were two part numbers. Nevertheless, after many years of
searching they're going to be painted in flat grey and going in place...
Sorry, I forgot to mention that they are trims to clip onto the face of the rear seat
squab brackets.
Coming next and last of the major expenses is the actual T2 turbo rebuild. A really
expensive time in lockdown, but it's very exciting nonetheless. I have sent two to
be rebuilt. The original one off the car, which is in good nick, will be mothballed for
the time, if ever, when the car becomes a museum or showroom piece.
Being as the intention is to drive the car and the T2 turbo is becoming a bit of a rarity,
I'm having one rebuilt to put on the car, so that completes the car's fettling, and I'll
have another for spare as a key component. This to join other parts I have put aside.
I've had my quote back from the rebuilders and they're taking some stage photos of
their process for me. Watch this space
Yet again, some excitement generated by this car, though I can't wait to go out
hooning in it, sooner rather than later...
Regards,
Steve
Edited by LowiePete on Wednesday 17th June 05:42
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