Triumph Herald 13 60 - Loud and rusty
Discussion
witko999 said:
I'd reccommend putting proper air filters on it. Those strainer type generally do a crap job of filtering anything and also apparently often lose a chunk of power.
Interesting point. I got them cos they look awesome, maybe they're not the best though. I do have a proper filter. Will investigate cheersNice write up.
I had a Wedgewood Blue 13/60 convertible as my main car after I finished Dundee Uni. Bought it from a pal.
I then bought an additional white 13/60 convertible that was an MOT failure due to the rusty out riggers. Managed to take all the good bits from the spare one and made a decent blue one: the bonnet alone was worth more that I paid for the white car ( £48 IIRC but that had some road tax to cash so quite a bargain at the time in 1981 !)
It had cross ply tyres on when I bought the blue one...not very much grip with those on !
Couple of thoughts :
Those yellow headlight covers may cause you a few issues as they convert the beam onto the wrong side of the road...but you probably know that !
And IIRC there was a conversion for the rear leaf spring that runs transversely across the axle; I think is was convex/concave ....one or the other anyway !!
Apparently Heralds have a tendency to tuck the outer rear wheel under the car when cornering in extremis, and IIRC the modified spring was supposed to counteract this.
Not sure if I got all that correct, but it was a long time ago ... so do not quote me !!
Much later on I ran a Lotus Elan DHC, which had a lot of Triumph Herald/Spitfire bits: front suspension, steering rack ( but the Elan had a lock limit on for safety reasons), steering column/ wiper & indicator stalks, cooling system etc etc.
In fact, mine was a 1970 S4 Elan, and because Triumph fitted a smaller radiator to the 13/60 as compared to the previous 1250 Herald, my Stromberg engine was always on the limit cooling wise. I eventually sourced a Spitfire rad that I fitted with some difficulty, but at least the car ran much cooler !
By the way, I am sure that you are aware, but on the Lotus the lower front trunnions had to be lubricated with gear oil ( not grease) as part of regular maintenance.
Keep up the good work and the photos !
I had a Wedgewood Blue 13/60 convertible as my main car after I finished Dundee Uni. Bought it from a pal.
I then bought an additional white 13/60 convertible that was an MOT failure due to the rusty out riggers. Managed to take all the good bits from the spare one and made a decent blue one: the bonnet alone was worth more that I paid for the white car ( £48 IIRC but that had some road tax to cash so quite a bargain at the time in 1981 !)
It had cross ply tyres on when I bought the blue one...not very much grip with those on !
Couple of thoughts :
Those yellow headlight covers may cause you a few issues as they convert the beam onto the wrong side of the road...but you probably know that !
And IIRC there was a conversion for the rear leaf spring that runs transversely across the axle; I think is was convex/concave ....one or the other anyway !!
Apparently Heralds have a tendency to tuck the outer rear wheel under the car when cornering in extremis, and IIRC the modified spring was supposed to counteract this.
Not sure if I got all that correct, but it was a long time ago ... so do not quote me !!
Much later on I ran a Lotus Elan DHC, which had a lot of Triumph Herald/Spitfire bits: front suspension, steering rack ( but the Elan had a lock limit on for safety reasons), steering column/ wiper & indicator stalks, cooling system etc etc.
In fact, mine was a 1970 S4 Elan, and because Triumph fitted a smaller radiator to the 13/60 as compared to the previous 1250 Herald, my Stromberg engine was always on the limit cooling wise. I eventually sourced a Spitfire rad that I fitted with some difficulty, but at least the car ran much cooler !
By the way, I am sure that you are aware, but on the Lotus the lower front trunnions had to be lubricated with gear oil ( not grease) as part of regular maintenance.
Keep up the good work and the photos !
Love these.
I had a Mk1 Vitesse while at Uni. Also Wedgewood blue. Bought from a mate £300.
Adding to PaulS4's thoughts:
If you lock up going into a corner, they can go 'full-lock' ripping the steering wheel out of your hands. Skid marks not just on the road!
Never had the 'wheel tuck' thing but was aware of the possibility so knew to never push it too far.
Great memories unbolting and removing the roof (7 bolts to undo) for a drive out in summer sunshine.
Used to leave the roof in the carpark to save my space.
I had a Mk1 Vitesse while at Uni. Also Wedgewood blue. Bought from a mate £300.
Adding to PaulS4's thoughts:
If you lock up going into a corner, they can go 'full-lock' ripping the steering wheel out of your hands. Skid marks not just on the road!
Never had the 'wheel tuck' thing but was aware of the possibility so knew to never push it too far.
Great memories unbolting and removing the roof (7 bolts to undo) for a drive out in summer sunshine.
Used to leave the roof in the carpark to save my space.
Paul S4 said:
Nice write up.
I had a Wedgewood Blue 13/60 convertible as my main car after I finished Dundee Uni. Bought it from a pal.
I then bought an additional white 13/60 convertible that was an MOT failure due to the rusty out riggers. Managed to take all the good bits from the spare one and made a decent blue one: the bonnet alone was worth more that I paid for the white car ( £48 IIRC but that had some road tax to cash so quite a bargain at the time in 1981 !)
It had cross ply tyres on when I bought the blue one...not very much grip with those on !
Couple of thoughts :
Those yellow headlight covers may cause you a few issues as they convert the beam onto the wrong side of the road...but you probably know that !
And IIRC there was a conversion for the rear leaf spring that runs transversely across the axle; I think is was convex/concave ....one or the other anyway !!
Apparently Heralds have a tendency to tuck the outer rear wheel under the car when cornering in extremis, and IIRC the modified spring was supposed to counteract this.
Not sure if I got all that correct, but it was a long time ago ... so do not quote me !!
Much later on I ran a Lotus Elan DHC, which had a lot of Triumph Herald/Spitfire bits: front suspension, steering rack ( but the Elan had a lock limit on for safety reasons), steering column/ wiper & indicator stalks, cooling system etc etc.
In fact, mine was a 1970 S4 Elan, and because Triumph fitted a smaller radiator to the 13/60 as compared to the previous 1250 Herald, my Stromberg engine was always on the limit cooling wise. I eventually sourced a Spitfire rad that I fitted with some difficulty, but at least the car ran much cooler !
By the way, I am sure that you are aware, but on the Lotus the lower front trunnions had to be lubricated with gear oil ( not grease) as part of regular maintenance.
Keep up the good work and the photos !
Cheers very much! Love hearing other people's herald stories!I had a Wedgewood Blue 13/60 convertible as my main car after I finished Dundee Uni. Bought it from a pal.
I then bought an additional white 13/60 convertible that was an MOT failure due to the rusty out riggers. Managed to take all the good bits from the spare one and made a decent blue one: the bonnet alone was worth more that I paid for the white car ( £48 IIRC but that had some road tax to cash so quite a bargain at the time in 1981 !)
It had cross ply tyres on when I bought the blue one...not very much grip with those on !
Couple of thoughts :
Those yellow headlight covers may cause you a few issues as they convert the beam onto the wrong side of the road...but you probably know that !
And IIRC there was a conversion for the rear leaf spring that runs transversely across the axle; I think is was convex/concave ....one or the other anyway !!
Apparently Heralds have a tendency to tuck the outer rear wheel under the car when cornering in extremis, and IIRC the modified spring was supposed to counteract this.
Not sure if I got all that correct, but it was a long time ago ... so do not quote me !!
Much later on I ran a Lotus Elan DHC, which had a lot of Triumph Herald/Spitfire bits: front suspension, steering rack ( but the Elan had a lock limit on for safety reasons), steering column/ wiper & indicator stalks, cooling system etc etc.
In fact, mine was a 1970 S4 Elan, and because Triumph fitted a smaller radiator to the 13/60 as compared to the previous 1250 Herald, my Stromberg engine was always on the limit cooling wise. I eventually sourced a Spitfire rad that I fitted with some difficulty, but at least the car ran much cooler !
By the way, I am sure that you are aware, but on the Lotus the lower front trunnions had to be lubricated with gear oil ( not grease) as part of regular maintenance.
Keep up the good work and the photos !
I ran a spitfire on old tyres, big cross ply but agree it can be hairy despite not loads of power.
Yep aware of the tuck, some seem to worry about it more than others. Slamming it to the floor will help, I used a 1 inch lowering block and extended studs where the diff attaches to the spring (used block studs, suggestion from the tssc bunch).
Was looking at a camber compensator but they're hard to get and make it even lower, don't think it would clear the exhaust as it currently sits.
Cheers!
Edit: aware the yellow lights are a bit dodge but I've never driven it at night yet and I think they look cool so gonna run them for now!
JimPD said:
Love these.
I had a Mk1 Vitesse while at Uni. Also Wedgewood blue. Bought from a mate £300.
Adding to PaulS4's thoughts:
If you lock up going into a corner, they can go 'full-lock' ripping the steering wheel out of your hands. Skid marks not just on the road!
Never had the 'wheel tuck' thing but was aware of the possibility so knew to never push it too far.
Great memories unbolting and removing the roof (7 bolts to undo) for a drive out in summer sunshine.
Used to leave the roof in the carpark to save my space.
Ha, my dad had a herald and tore the front axel clean off when he went full lock, mounting points had rusted to dust. I had a Mk1 Vitesse while at Uni. Also Wedgewood blue. Bought from a mate £300.
Adding to PaulS4's thoughts:
If you lock up going into a corner, they can go 'full-lock' ripping the steering wheel out of your hands. Skid marks not just on the road!
Never had the 'wheel tuck' thing but was aware of the possibility so knew to never push it too far.
Great memories unbolting and removing the roof (7 bolts to undo) for a drive out in summer sunshine.
Used to leave the roof in the carpark to save my space.
A few jobs today, put the fog light back on at the front (took it off as it was getting caught/damaged when I put the car on a flat bed).
Is an original lucas lamp with yellow bulb, not sure what from originally. Aware it's right near the road and will get smashed (and I try to avoid driving at night anyway) so also got an original lucas cover for it off ebay.
I know its impractical but!
Still getting very rough running on throttle over 2k, so worked to sort it. Possibly fuel isn't getting in and the pump was old, so replaced the fuel pump.
before.
new shiny one.
new one!
Had previously replaced the fuel lines with lines covered in braid off ebay. I was warned that they suck, you can't see when the rubber is splitting etc. Should have listened!
A brand new line split when I moved it a bit, complete junk, sprayed fuel all over the place. Promptly took it off and out some temporary line just while I worked on the car. Have ordered new original design fuel lines to replace them all with.
Also replaced the fuel filter, which had previously broken and wasn't filtering at all.
Then went about getting the rpm to a decent level, using my air flow meter (great tool!). Once warmed up, you stick it over the carb air inlet and get the flow of each carb at the same level. Revs now sit at about 900 rpm which I'm ok with for now.
Hasn't fixed the issue, and plenty of fuel is getting to the carbs (plus I cleared out the fuel lines of crud).
Not all cylinders are firing all the time, so have bought new ht leads, new plugs and distributor cap/rotor arm (£40 all in, bargain!) so we'll see if that helps.
Edit: spelling
Is an original lucas lamp with yellow bulb, not sure what from originally. Aware it's right near the road and will get smashed (and I try to avoid driving at night anyway) so also got an original lucas cover for it off ebay.
I know its impractical but!
Still getting very rough running on throttle over 2k, so worked to sort it. Possibly fuel isn't getting in and the pump was old, so replaced the fuel pump.
before. new shiny one. new one!Had previously replaced the fuel lines with lines covered in braid off ebay. I was warned that they suck, you can't see when the rubber is splitting etc. Should have listened!
A brand new line split when I moved it a bit, complete junk, sprayed fuel all over the place. Promptly took it off and out some temporary line just while I worked on the car. Have ordered new original design fuel lines to replace them all with.
Also replaced the fuel filter, which had previously broken and wasn't filtering at all.
Then went about getting the rpm to a decent level, using my air flow meter (great tool!). Once warmed up, you stick it over the carb air inlet and get the flow of each carb at the same level. Revs now sit at about 900 rpm which I'm ok with for now.
Hasn't fixed the issue, and plenty of fuel is getting to the carbs (plus I cleared out the fuel lines of crud).
Not all cylinders are firing all the time, so have bought new ht leads, new plugs and distributor cap/rotor arm (£40 all in, bargain!) so we'll see if that helps.
Edit: spelling
Edited by jiggawhat2k on Saturday 25th April 20:41
Fond Memories of the Herald
My Grandad had one in the mid 70's. White or Cream I think.
He and my Nan used to take my Cousin and me out to the Pubs in the Reading/Henley area, We would have been under 10. I used to have a Shandy made from proper Beer.
Vague recollections of my rather large Nan having to get out and walk up steep Hills !!
My Grandad had one in the mid 70's. White or Cream I think.
He and my Nan used to take my Cousin and me out to the Pubs in the Reading/Henley area, We would have been under 10. I used to have a Shandy made from proper Beer.
Vague recollections of my rather large Nan having to get out and walk up steep Hills !!
Have to say, as one who has owned one of these in the past.....
Not a fan of that front fog light, it just spoils the whole front end and would probably be useless in the fog anyway.
Also I would change the number plate back to a horizontal one to be more symmetrical...
But that is just IMHO of course !
Not a fan of that front fog light, it just spoils the whole front end and would probably be useless in the fog anyway.
Also I would change the number plate back to a horizontal one to be more symmetrical...
But that is just IMHO of course !
I've had a few Heralds over the years... does the dizzy shaft have some play in it side to side? Also, where did you buy your ignition kit from? There's a lot of s
te out there, I always replace the rotor arm etc with parts from Dizzy Doctor and they are much better made, if a bit more expensive than the generic ebay tat.
te out there, I always replace the rotor arm etc with parts from Dizzy Doctor and they are much better made, if a bit more expensive than the generic ebay tat.I l've always disliked about the Herald accelerator pedal, the one in mine is old and wobbly and its hard to feel anything going on. Plus no heal toe possible.
Bought a Spitfire pedal and mechanism and fitted it today. Pretty simple swap! Find the right position for the pedal, bolt it to the back of the footwell, fit the throttle cable and adjust until it's where I want it. Done!
the spitfire pedal.
working out where to put it
roughly positioned. Classic British Leyland, it only needs 2 bolts in the back of the footwell and its fitted!
You just position the throttle cable more in or out of the footwell by loosening the uclamp and sliding it up. Nice and easy.
To make sure the throttle cable doesn't get stretched or it damages the throttle mechanism on the carbs, I adjusted the cable to be at max throttle at the point that the pedal is flat to the floor. Simply did this by moving the throttle cable up or down within the uclamp, then tighten it up once its right.
Feels much better, more progressive and modern plus with a bit of practice heal toe may even be possible (I've put the pedal much closer to the brake than you'd find in a Herald or a Spitfire).
Bought a Spitfire pedal and mechanism and fitted it today. Pretty simple swap! Find the right position for the pedal, bolt it to the back of the footwell, fit the throttle cable and adjust until it's where I want it. Done!
the spitfire pedal. working out where to put it roughly positioned. Classic British Leyland, it only needs 2 bolts in the back of the footwell and its fitted!You just position the throttle cable more in or out of the footwell by loosening the uclamp and sliding it up. Nice and easy.
To make sure the throttle cable doesn't get stretched or it damages the throttle mechanism on the carbs, I adjusted the cable to be at max throttle at the point that the pedal is flat to the floor. Simply did this by moving the throttle cable up or down within the uclamp, then tighten it up once its right.
Feels much better, more progressive and modern plus with a bit of practice heal toe may even be possible (I've put the pedal much closer to the brake than you'd find in a Herald or a Spitfire).
As a wise forum person said (witko999), my shiny trumpets are probably sucking in all types of sh**e so I popped a couple of socks on the carbs.
It was running really rough so changed the plugs, leads, distributor cap and point arm (red one), its running as it should now. Needs more fiddling but got a decent run in it.
old plugs look rough...
Have it another tune with the Colortune and it wasn't happy at the top end so I swapped the needles for the ones I had on my 1500 spitfire (AAR needles) and it ran much better so I'll keep those for now.
It was running really rough so changed the plugs, leads, distributor cap and point arm (red one), its running as it should now. Needs more fiddling but got a decent run in it.
old plugs look rough...Have it another tune with the Colortune and it wasn't happy at the top end so I swapped the needles for the ones I had on my 1500 spitfire (AAR needles) and it ran much better so I'll keep those for now.
I honestly don’t think you have to worry about blinding anyone with Herald headlights 
I’ve always wondered about the removable roof thing - my sisters boyfriend used to take the roof off his in the summer but I just assumed it was because he was a bellend. Was it actually designed to be driven with the roof off?
I’ve always wondered about the removable roof thing - my sisters boyfriend used to take the roof off his in the summer but I just assumed it was because he was a bellend. Was it actually designed to be driven with the roof off?
Jonny-Jimbo said:
I've had a few Heralds over the years... does the dizzy shaft have some play in it side to side? Also, where did you buy your ignition kit from? There's a lot of ste out there, I always replace the rotor arm etc with parts from Dizzy Doctor and they are much better made, if a bit more expensive than the generic ebay tat.
Heya, my shaft has no play in it side to side but s little up and down, seems fine though. It's still got points but using a Lucas Ignition coil which seems to work OK too, my previous spitfire 1500 has proper electronic ignition, was an lumenition unit and coil with no points, that worked much more smoothly across the revs and I had less trouble with it generally. Not cheap you're right but you geg what you pay for I guess! te out there, I always replace the rotor arm etc with parts from Dizzy Doctor and they are much better made, if a bit more expensive than the generic ebay tat.Been a long time since posting so thought I'd do a bit of an update! I've been using the car a lot and working on it a lot too. It's proven to be a very unreliable, very fussy old beast which I enjoy a lot. When the projects work, I don't know how to fill my time.
I've forgotten what I've posted here so the full spec is now:
Engine
- Spitfire 1300 swap
- 421 manifold and home build exhaust
- Twin SU HS4 carbs with big ol trumpets so it can suck in maximum dirt (I like how it looks so who cares about being practical)
- Oil cooler
- Big radiator and twin fans on electric thermostat
- Giant high power WASP starter motor
- Electronic ignition
- New fuse box (Triumph didn't care about fuses)
- Late 1500 mechanical fuel pump to allow big spacers (stop fuel vaporisation)
Drivetrain
- Blackline viscous differential (a Quaife copy, still cost a bl**dy fortune) - total overkill but fun to build
- Spitfire 3.89 crown swap (from 4.11)
- Rebuilt diff while it was apart
- New UJs everywhere in the car, new bearings
Wheels
- Wellers with decent tyres
- Gaz gold adjustable coilovers up front
- Leaf spring with Gaz Gold adjustable shocks on rear
- 1 inch lowering block with extended bolts
- 1 leaf removed for extra impractical lowness
Interior
- MGF half alcantara seats
- Caged laser half cage - fully welded cage but bolted in on custom mounting plates
- Stereo, speaks and sub in the boot
Bodywork
- LOL
I've had the old lad to a few shows including the pistonheads Merc one which was fun. It was in the Adam C video leaving which I was very pleased with because I'm a loser https://youtu.be/9MTsyBTKKfE
Also had it displayed with some much nicer cars than mine at the PetrolHedonism Underground show at Wembley on the weekend, on the Auto Anonymous stand (probably the friendliest car club ever with a lovely range of cars).
The Herald really showed it's true colours by breaking down on the way there and the way home too. Great stuff.
It's now sat on the drive waiting for a carb rebuild because carbs are irritating sometimes.
That's it really! Thanks
I've forgotten what I've posted here so the full spec is now:
Engine
- Spitfire 1300 swap
- 421 manifold and home build exhaust
- Twin SU HS4 carbs with big ol trumpets so it can suck in maximum dirt (I like how it looks so who cares about being practical)
- Oil cooler
- Big radiator and twin fans on electric thermostat
- Giant high power WASP starter motor
- Electronic ignition
- New fuse box (Triumph didn't care about fuses)
- Late 1500 mechanical fuel pump to allow big spacers (stop fuel vaporisation)
Drivetrain
- Blackline viscous differential (a Quaife copy, still cost a bl**dy fortune) - total overkill but fun to build
- Spitfire 3.89 crown swap (from 4.11)
- Rebuilt diff while it was apart
- New UJs everywhere in the car, new bearings
Wheels
- Wellers with decent tyres
- Gaz gold adjustable coilovers up front
- Leaf spring with Gaz Gold adjustable shocks on rear
- 1 inch lowering block with extended bolts
- 1 leaf removed for extra impractical lowness
Interior
- MGF half alcantara seats
- Caged laser half cage - fully welded cage but bolted in on custom mounting plates
- Stereo, speaks and sub in the boot
Bodywork
- LOL
I've had the old lad to a few shows including the pistonheads Merc one which was fun. It was in the Adam C video leaving which I was very pleased with because I'm a loser https://youtu.be/9MTsyBTKKfE
Also had it displayed with some much nicer cars than mine at the PetrolHedonism Underground show at Wembley on the weekend, on the Auto Anonymous stand (probably the friendliest car club ever with a lovely range of cars).
The Herald really showed it's true colours by breaking down on the way there and the way home too. Great stuff.
It's now sat on the drive waiting for a carb rebuild because carbs are irritating sometimes.
That's it really! Thanks
Edited by jiggawhat2k on Thursday 20th April 13:42
Jhonno said:
Brilliant.. Love this.
Would a single 40 Weber/Dellorto work better?
Almost certainly yes, a Weber conversion would help you're right. Current issue is one of the SU carb jets is blocked (for the 2nd time!) I believe by a bit of rubber from a fuel hose bought from ebay that is 'ethanol safe' which definitely is not ethanol safe. Hose now replaced but the repercussions continue. Thing is SUs are so easy to tune and play with though, I do enjoy them. Would a single 40 Weber/Dellorto work better?
One day I'll convert to fuel injection but currently don't have the time, money or skills to do it
Cheers!Passed my driving test in a Triumph Courier, the van version of the 1200 Herald. The examiner asked me to turn the car around on a pretty wide road...so I applied full lock and parked up facing the opposite direction.
' I've a clever bugger here' the examiner said. ' Take the next left and repeat the exercise.'
This was a very much narrower street needing around a 6 point turn.
'Hummph' the examiner said, ' Back to the test centre!'
I passed!
' I've a clever bugger here' the examiner said. ' Take the next left and repeat the exercise.'
This was a very much narrower street needing around a 6 point turn.
'Hummph' the examiner said, ' Back to the test centre!'
I passed!
JB99 said:
Passed my driving test in a Triumph Courier, the van version of the 1200 Herald. The examiner asked me to turn the car around on a pretty wide road...so I applied full lock and parked up facing the opposite direction.
' I've a clever bugger here' the examiner said. ' Take the next left and repeat the exercise.'
This was a very much narrower street needing around a 6 point turn.
'Hummph' the examiner said, ' Back to the test centre!'
I passed!
' I've a clever bugger here' the examiner said. ' Take the next left and repeat the exercise.'
This was a very much narrower street needing around a 6 point turn.
'Hummph' the examiner said, ' Back to the test centre!'
I passed!
love it. the turning circle is brilliant!When I bought it my dad suggested not to turn it on full lock as he had a convertible that broke in half at the chassis when turning aggressively on full lock back in the 70s (rusty chassis)
Mikebentley said:
Didn’t Fuzz fit a fuel injection system and supercharger to one? Glad you are still rocking the old Triumph. My Vitesse is sleeping in the garage.
It's time to pull the old girl out of the garage!Will look for fuzz for inspiration/motivation, didn't know he did that. ta!
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