As 2020 hasn't been awful enough yet = my £750 Citroen C6!
Discussion
Chris x said:
Standard evening on eBay - Cars, nearest first and auction...this popped up and thought of this thread. Then read the description and thought of this post!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Citroen-C6-2-7HDI-Exclu...
Flol. Snap.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Citroen-C6-2-7HDI-Exclu...
P5BNij said:
Ah but.... but.... in some ways, the C6 is exactly what PH is all about..... 
Oh, I agree! But the majority think speed and power are everything.SVX said:
What a thing! Always been a fan of the styling and Gallic quirkiness of these, didn't realise the Auto transmission was a Japanese unit, for some reason I thought it was ZF. After following your BX threads, I'm sure you'll be able to work through your job list - enjoy!
Cheers. I didn't realise it was, either! I knew it was Aisin, but I didn't know Aisin was Asian. I can be quite slow to pick things up.
littlebasher said:
Magnificent
I'm in
Didn't realise I left it unlocked again, get out! I'm in
CarlosV8 said:
Awesome work, as always! Before seeing the whole thread title I was expecting an Avantime though
Did I say I was getting one at Beaulieu? Can't remember now. boyse7en said:
C6 has been on my radar since the last of my XMs finally died.
They were too expensive then, but i may well be tempted if I can get something similar to yours. I like a project, and a big Cit is nearly always a project.
This is the biggest Citroen I've ever owned. Previous biggest was a Xantia 1.9TD estate. This is a bit different to that, in a million electronic ways. They were too expensive then, but i may well be tempted if I can get something similar to yours. I like a project, and a big Cit is nearly always a project.
bqf said:
I understand this poor guy has had to put it up for sale on eBay. I really feel for him, because he took a gamble and it didn't pay off. That's brave though right? I think he's a legend.
Yeah, it is me
Ha! I respect anybody for having a punt, and not being put off. It didn't work out, but no doubt next time it will, and come your final days you'll look back and smile when you think about how many more risks did come off than the ones that didn't...unless the risks don't pay off at all, in which case your final days may arrive more quickly and in a more self-inflicted way than you'd have hoped. If my C6 goes Pete Tong....comin' to a bridge near you: Me!Yeah, it is me
Well, as you probably all guessed, things have not been well with the big Citroen. I pressed it into a week's service (because that's how much MoT was left on it) in which I was effectively giving it a chance to show me everything that isn't right with it.
And, as I think we all assumed, the week wasn't without issue. I knew this was a risk, and that it was a risk that could bite me in the arse. And my arse has been well and truly bitten! Didn't think it would happen in the first WEEK, though!
You'll all judge, sure. You'll all tell me that you saw something like this coming. Well, I can't say I blame you. Perhaps I'm the fool in all this?
OK, so what's happened? Well, there's this little piece of rubber underneath the bumper, kind of like an air deflector. And, well....look at it!
Seems that when I parked that big long noise over a kerb, I forgot the car would drop itself after I got out! It raises when you open the door, too, before lowering again when you start the engine (unless you're on uneven terrain). This bit of trim was getting squashed and pulled and squashed again. I had to lay on the floor to push it back together! Disaster!
Wow! I hope I don't get any more issues like that, otherwise I'm going to start believing all the big French luxo-barge horror stories to be true!
And, as I think we all assumed, the week wasn't without issue. I knew this was a risk, and that it was a risk that could bite me in the arse. And my arse has been well and truly bitten! Didn't think it would happen in the first WEEK, though!
You'll all judge, sure. You'll all tell me that you saw something like this coming. Well, I can't say I blame you. Perhaps I'm the fool in all this?
OK, so what's happened? Well, there's this little piece of rubber underneath the bumper, kind of like an air deflector. And, well....look at it!
Seems that when I parked that big long noise over a kerb, I forgot the car would drop itself after I got out! It raises when you open the door, too, before lowering again when you start the engine (unless you're on uneven terrain). This bit of trim was getting squashed and pulled and squashed again. I had to lay on the floor to push it back together! Disaster!
Wow! I hope I don't get any more issues like that, otherwise I'm going to start believing all the big French luxo-barge horror stories to be true!
Big Citroen’s are great... Always fancied one of these but having an aversion to diesel there are probably about 5 to choose from and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a petrol for sale!
I’ve often wondered how hard it would be to buy a cheap 407 coupe With the 3.0 V6 and swap the engine / gearbox over - they are very similar cars from what I understand but switching fuels perhaps not straightforward?
Would make a great basis for a EV conversion also I think - like it’s grandfather the DS which is Also somewhat let down by the powerplant.
I’ve often wondered how hard it would be to buy a cheap 407 coupe With the 3.0 V6 and swap the engine / gearbox over - they are very similar cars from what I understand but switching fuels perhaps not straightforward?
Would make a great basis for a EV conversion also I think - like it’s grandfather the DS which is Also somewhat let down by the powerplant.
CharlesdeGaulle said:
Yeah, see... we all told you... no, wait...
I really like these. I know they're old now but are such refreshingly different cars from the mainstream.
Old? It's the newest car I own! I really like these. I know they're old now but are such refreshingly different cars from the mainstream.
S100HP said:
Change those screws on the plate please!
Those are quite far down on my list of pressing issues, to be fair.MEames said:
Big Citroen’s are great... Always fancied one of these but having an aversion to diesel there are probably about 5 to choose from and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a petrol for sale!
I’ve often wondered how hard it would be to buy a cheap 407 coupe With the 3.0 V6 and swap the engine / gearbox over - they are very similar cars from what I understand but switching fuels perhaps not straightforward?
Would make a great basis for a EV conversion also I think - like it’s grandfather the DS which is Also somewhat let down by the powerplant.
I'm not particularly swayed one way of the other, fuel-wise. The engine in this is smooth and grunty, but to be honest it's almost immaterial how it's powered, as the engine isn't the centre piece, it's just the means of moving everything else around.I’ve often wondered how hard it would be to buy a cheap 407 coupe With the 3.0 V6 and swap the engine / gearbox over - they are very similar cars from what I understand but switching fuels perhaps not straightforward?
Would make a great basis for a EV conversion also I think - like it’s grandfather the DS which is Also somewhat let down by the powerplant.
You could try switching it to a 3.0 V6, but being that the petrol engine is weedier than the diesel, it'd be a silly idea what with all the work involved. The diesel suits it pretty well, in fairness.
Would make a good EV, I agree.
Mezzanine said:
God, I hope you and your family are alright after that horrendous incident?
The counselling is helping, thanks.Shadow R1 said:
Shouldn't you be taking to youtube and telling the whole world about this failed oem part. 
No, because people would just leave a comment saying "Yeh wel what do u expcet its a fRench car there s
t" While having not watched any of the video at all.You're right, though. I could have been killed!
carinaman said:
Only one of them needs sorting.
See, this is my thinking!robsco said:
Mezzanine said:
I saw a white C6 earlier today.
Surely a rarity?
Couldn’t get a picture
They are like hen’s teeth, there is one in the midlands that I know of which is used by a chap who specialises in C6s. I nearly bought one from him last month but it was just a shade too expensive.Surely a rarity?
Couldn’t get a picture
hidetheelephants said:
Do you have to get special trousers tailored to accommodate your very large testicles? Respect is due. I'd like one of these but I'm not brave/stupid enough.
Regular Matalan stuff is fine!Seriously though, it's no more risky than a 5-series of the same era, IMO.
I suppose I should probably give a quick update of the barge of despair. Luckily there haven't been any further disasters like the one under the front bumper, but time is pressing on, and I wanted to have this on the road early November. So far, I've done nothing to make that happen, except spend money on parts.
The first thing to note is that the £750 C6 is no longer really a £750 C6. This is no surprise, though the car did actually work when I bought it, and it did have an MoT, ergo it would qualify for the 'Shed Of The Week' column on PH (do they still do that?!) However, in order to make it a nice C6 that works properly, it was always going to need some expenditure. With fully sorted C6s still sitting in the £5-6k region, my aim is to keep my total spend under £2k. I have seen a C6 advertised for £1800 in the past; The guy wanted a quick sale, but there's no guarantee it wouldn't have needed all the other bits that this one does.
Still compared with what it would have cost new, it's an absolute steal
:
And that was in 2006!
Well, I've been on the hunt for parts, both old and new. My costs have included
Most of that was stuff I chose to buy, rather than what HAD to be bought (perhaps the boot struts were a neccessity, actually - it's a heavy bootlid, and it hurts) In terms of what the car actually needed, I've now sourced:
So far, my C6 is a £1649.04 car
The gearbox was quite a big purchase, but it seemed like a no-brainer. The issue with my current one is that although it might be resolved with a hundred oil changes, or even just a new valve block, it might also...not. The car has been to one C6 specialist prior to my owning it, who informed the owner that it could be the valve block, the box itself, or the torque converter causing the issue, so when a known-good 110,000 mile unit came up for sale in Bournemouth (complete with torque converter) it seemed silly not to just bite the bullet. Yes, it's a lot of work, but I can change the whole thing and hopefully be done with the issue. The car it came off was broken for spares by an established C6 forum member, and he'd run the car around for three months, so could vouch for its operational...goodness.
The other advantage was that I could raid this other C6 for a couple of other parts, chief among which was the handbrake mechanism, which is realistically the main component this is preventing the car from getting an MoT again. I'm on a crash course learning C6 handbrakes (well, C6 everything, to be honest!) and have made a prediction that, if I'm lucky, all the car needs is new handbrake cables, because I suspect that what has happened, is that one of the cables has seized, and that the motor has either had a duckfit trying to operate it, or the motor did indeed tension the cable, but it wouldn't release. Whatever happened, the N/S/R cable had been cut to allow the car to continue being used, but until I had a new cable, I couldn't test it.
So why didn't I just buy one from Citroen? Well, for two reasons. Firstly, they're backordered until such&such-a-date, and secondly they're THREE-HUNDRED AND FIFTY fkING POUNDS!! Which is nearly half the cost of the car, so no. I'm not doing that.
I could buy a new handbrake unit, but those are only a few quid more, at...oh, no, they're a grand. Sod. That.
With all this firmly bared in mind, the below seemed like a sensible purchase:
A new floor might be my second sensible purchase...
That's the box which houses the handbrake motor. There are two wheel cables, and one emergency release cable (I was trying to suss out how that would apply the handbrake - turns out it doesn't, it's purely a mechanical release in the event of a failure or flat battery).
Now, because of the coding of the unit (and the fact you can't re-code the unit) switching the entire assembly wasn't an option. Therefore, my plan was to remove the cover of the unit, learn how it works inside, and then harvest the cables from it.
Quite a clever little device, and actually quite simple in its design. Basically, the offside cable is fixed, with a nipple (lol) on either end; The nearside has a nipple at the caliper end as per normal, but it has a threaded insert on the motor end. The motor (labelled "Johnson" (lol)) rotates the bronze-coloured barrel, which is threaded internally, and when this winds, it draws the end of the nearside cable in, effectively pulling the handbrake on.
As it does so, the offside cable gets drawn in by the whole assembly trying to shift to the left, and this in turn pulls on the cable. Once the tension is taken up, the pull to both sides is equalises and they just continue to pull until the sensor (white plastic with a barcode and ribbon cable going to it) detects the maximum torque load has been reached, and shuts down the motor, locking it in the process.
When you release the park, the motor winds in the opposite direction, releasing the cable until the sensor decides it's slack enough to stop.
On my car, the nearside cable has been cut. I think this is because the cable had seized in the outer sleeve, which means either one of the following is the likely cause:
With this theory, I conducted some research and found that others had also mentioned the seized cable issue. I also decided to check my used replacements, and, low & behold, they're very stiff (lol).
So, before I did anything with the car, I had to see if these cables would come back to life.
I decided on a combination of tipping them up one way, and filling the end with penetrating fluid. Satisfaction is watching the bubbles come up with streams of brown rust in each one, as the level drops. Eventually, it stopped dropping - that'll be the seized bit, then!
To aid the process, I flipped them the other way around, squirted them (lol) from the opposite end, and watched all the brown drizzle out the hole (lol). Then, I used a drill set to screw (lol) speed to spin the cables around inside, while thrusting (lol) them in and out. This had the desired affect.
Then, I blew the penetrating oil out, and trialled some very sticky LSD oil I use in TVRs, to see if that would act as a good lubricant (lo.......alright, I'll stop now) for the cables.
This was the gloopiest, stickiest stuff I could pour down the cable, but it's still not really slippy-enough (because it's limited-slip? lololololololololLLLO!O!11!!!!)
Problem is, getting grease in there is pretty difficult. In the end, I used a syringe to inject grease alongside the cable, while the drill rotated. It drew enough in that the cable now moves nice and free, and now all I really need is a protective rubber sleeve to go over the end of the nipple, and keep the grease from coming out. The absence of that sleeve is likely what caused the seizure in the first place.
Now I had my two substitute cables ready to rock, I set about removing the remains of the old ones. Although only one had been cut, I figured the other one wouldn't be far behind it in terms of corrosion and wear; I was right!
This car has been used a lot, and not really loved a lot. I don't mean from an emotional POV, as the fella before me clearly was very fond of it, but in terms of maintenance and mechanical sympathy, it's looking pretty sorry underneath. Nothing that can't be put right, though!
Eventually I managed to free the offside cable off, and remove it, but the nearside proved to be more fun, for a while. I mean, ever needed a laptop to remove a handbrake cable before?
Well, if you've got a C6, you probably will do! Though hopefully, you won't have as old a laptop as me with a hooky copy of DiagBox that is jammed in French and requires a translator app on my phone to decipher, because I can't go back in time to 1997 and listen more in my school French lessons.
However, all was not well! Computer says no (in French):
What I was attempting to do was put it in maintenance mode, where the mechanism will fully extend and allow the removal of the cables. Would have made the offside much easier, too, but them's the brakes.
At this point I was scratching my head, until I remembered my emergency release cable. I exposed it, gave it a tug and heard a buzzing noise, followed by the sound of something dropping onto the floor:
That's the remainder of the nearside cable - result! Now all I need to do is fit me new ones.
The first thing to note is that the £750 C6 is no longer really a £750 C6. This is no surprise, though the car did actually work when I bought it, and it did have an MoT, ergo it would qualify for the 'Shed Of The Week' column on PH (do they still do that?!) However, in order to make it a nice C6 that works properly, it was always going to need some expenditure. With fully sorted C6s still sitting in the £5-6k region, my aim is to keep my total spend under £2k. I have seen a C6 advertised for £1800 in the past; The guy wanted a quick sale, but there's no guarantee it wouldn't have needed all the other bits that this one does.
Still compared with what it would have cost new, it's an absolute steal
:And that was in 2006!
Well, I've been on the hunt for parts, both old and new. My costs have included
- Pair of genuine new repeater lamps (old ones look old) £13.78
- LED no plate lamps (old ones are all old and dim) £11
- x2 Washer jets (old ones look broken) £13.84ea
- Service kit (for when I do it next) about £65
- Boot lifters £24.99
Most of that was stuff I chose to buy, rather than what HAD to be bought (perhaps the boot struts were a neccessity, actually - it's a heavy bootlid, and it hurts) In terms of what the car actually needed, I've now sourced:
- Front brake discs and pads £100
- Rear brake discs and pads (unique to a C6, which made finding them more fun than the Peugeot 407/C5 items I'd assumed I'd need) £97.47
- Front wheel bearing (I think the O/S is noisy) £24.12 This one is the same as a 407!
- Used C5 door mirror glass £15
- Used gearbox (complete), handbrake mech, front axle sensors and engine cover £520
So far, my C6 is a £1649.04 car
The gearbox was quite a big purchase, but it seemed like a no-brainer. The issue with my current one is that although it might be resolved with a hundred oil changes, or even just a new valve block, it might also...not. The car has been to one C6 specialist prior to my owning it, who informed the owner that it could be the valve block, the box itself, or the torque converter causing the issue, so when a known-good 110,000 mile unit came up for sale in Bournemouth (complete with torque converter) it seemed silly not to just bite the bullet. Yes, it's a lot of work, but I can change the whole thing and hopefully be done with the issue. The car it came off was broken for spares by an established C6 forum member, and he'd run the car around for three months, so could vouch for its operational...goodness.
The other advantage was that I could raid this other C6 for a couple of other parts, chief among which was the handbrake mechanism, which is realistically the main component this is preventing the car from getting an MoT again. I'm on a crash course learning C6 handbrakes (well, C6 everything, to be honest!) and have made a prediction that, if I'm lucky, all the car needs is new handbrake cables, because I suspect that what has happened, is that one of the cables has seized, and that the motor has either had a duckfit trying to operate it, or the motor did indeed tension the cable, but it wouldn't release. Whatever happened, the N/S/R cable had been cut to allow the car to continue being used, but until I had a new cable, I couldn't test it.
So why didn't I just buy one from Citroen? Well, for two reasons. Firstly, they're backordered until such&such-a-date, and secondly they're THREE-HUNDRED AND FIFTY f
kING POUNDS!! Which is nearly half the cost of the car, so no. I'm not doing that.I could buy a new handbrake unit, but those are only a few quid more, at...oh, no, they're a grand. Sod. That.
With all this firmly bared in mind, the below seemed like a sensible purchase:
A new floor might be my second sensible purchase...
That's the box which houses the handbrake motor. There are two wheel cables, and one emergency release cable (I was trying to suss out how that would apply the handbrake - turns out it doesn't, it's purely a mechanical release in the event of a failure or flat battery).
Now, because of the coding of the unit (and the fact you can't re-code the unit) switching the entire assembly wasn't an option. Therefore, my plan was to remove the cover of the unit, learn how it works inside, and then harvest the cables from it.
Quite a clever little device, and actually quite simple in its design. Basically, the offside cable is fixed, with a nipple (lol) on either end; The nearside has a nipple at the caliper end as per normal, but it has a threaded insert on the motor end. The motor (labelled "Johnson" (lol)) rotates the bronze-coloured barrel, which is threaded internally, and when this winds, it draws the end of the nearside cable in, effectively pulling the handbrake on.
As it does so, the offside cable gets drawn in by the whole assembly trying to shift to the left, and this in turn pulls on the cable. Once the tension is taken up, the pull to both sides is equalises and they just continue to pull until the sensor (white plastic with a barcode and ribbon cable going to it) detects the maximum torque load has been reached, and shuts down the motor, locking it in the process.
When you release the park, the motor winds in the opposite direction, releasing the cable until the sensor decides it's slack enough to stop.
On my car, the nearside cable has been cut. I think this is because the cable had seized in the outer sleeve, which means either one of the following is the likely cause:
- The cable seized as the motor tried to pull it on, and the maximum torque load was reached before the brakes were fully applied, due to the resistance in the seized cable. The handbrake ECU (yes...really) had a duckfit, because the car could still move and went into OMGweHAzApHale mode, locking everything up and refusing to come out of park.
- The mechanism applied the handbrake, but the seized cable wouldn't release, and the sensor prevented the motor from unwinding further as it wasn't detecting as much slack on the cable as it was expecting. This meant the cable had to be cut, which released the wheel, and eventually allowed the opposing side to free-off.
With this theory, I conducted some research and found that others had also mentioned the seized cable issue. I also decided to check my used replacements, and, low & behold, they're very stiff (lol).
So, before I did anything with the car, I had to see if these cables would come back to life.
I decided on a combination of tipping them up one way, and filling the end with penetrating fluid. Satisfaction is watching the bubbles come up with streams of brown rust in each one, as the level drops. Eventually, it stopped dropping - that'll be the seized bit, then!
To aid the process, I flipped them the other way around, squirted them (lol) from the opposite end, and watched all the brown drizzle out the hole (lol). Then, I used a drill set to screw (lol) speed to spin the cables around inside, while thrusting (lol) them in and out. This had the desired affect.
Then, I blew the penetrating oil out, and trialled some very sticky LSD oil I use in TVRs, to see if that would act as a good lubricant (lo.......alright, I'll stop now) for the cables.
This was the gloopiest, stickiest stuff I could pour down the cable, but it's still not really slippy-enough (because it's limited-slip? lololololololololLLLO!O!11!!!!)
Problem is, getting grease in there is pretty difficult. In the end, I used a syringe to inject grease alongside the cable, while the drill rotated. It drew enough in that the cable now moves nice and free, and now all I really need is a protective rubber sleeve to go over the end of the nipple, and keep the grease from coming out. The absence of that sleeve is likely what caused the seizure in the first place.
Now I had my two substitute cables ready to rock, I set about removing the remains of the old ones. Although only one had been cut, I figured the other one wouldn't be far behind it in terms of corrosion and wear; I was right!
This car has been used a lot, and not really loved a lot. I don't mean from an emotional POV, as the fella before me clearly was very fond of it, but in terms of maintenance and mechanical sympathy, it's looking pretty sorry underneath. Nothing that can't be put right, though!
Eventually I managed to free the offside cable off, and remove it, but the nearside proved to be more fun, for a while. I mean, ever needed a laptop to remove a handbrake cable before?
Well, if you've got a C6, you probably will do! Though hopefully, you won't have as old a laptop as me with a hooky copy of DiagBox that is jammed in French and requires a translator app on my phone to decipher, because I can't go back in time to 1997 and listen more in my school French lessons.
However, all was not well! Computer says no (in French):
What I was attempting to do was put it in maintenance mode, where the mechanism will fully extend and allow the removal of the cables. Would have made the offside much easier, too, but them's the brakes.
At this point I was scratching my head, until I remembered my emergency release cable. I exposed it, gave it a tug and heard a buzzing noise, followed by the sound of something dropping onto the floor:
That's the remainder of the nearside cable - result! Now all I need to do is fit me new ones.
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