The Worlds Slowest Track Day Car - Fiat Seicento S
Discussion
Okay, so full disclosure, this first post is taken from my 'Back to the Shed' thread, but it's dominating it a bit, so I thought I'd give it it's own thread. It's also the project getting the most attention at the moment too.
A friend and I have thought about doing one of these banger rallies or similar, and so we went shopping. On the internet. Always a good idea.
We wanted something that had no real redeemable features, so it couldn't be fast, fun, driftable. Ideally limited tuning options so we could use our motorsport engineering knowledge to good measure rather than just buying off the shelf. Above all though it had to be cheap. So cheap.
What we have ended up with is this Fiat Seicento S 1100 in what I would describe as 'f**king orange'.
- Side Bar - I worked in Land Rover SVO paint shop for a while, and someone ordered an XJR in a very vivid shade of orange, and it was a big car. Upon walking out of the office and seeing this car someone exclaimed 'That's f**king orange!' it tickled me a bit so I started coming up with amusing colour names, although sadly none were taken on officially. Others include Hearing Aid Beige Metallic, Surrender White and Medicinal Jade... I think we had a 'Hardcore Buttercup' too.
Anyway, the Fiat has no MOT, so we got it cheap enough, £123.50. The seller wouldn't knock off 5p to make it a better number. Plans are a bit vague still we'll see if the MOT throws up any horror stories,
As this could end up being a bit of a 'build' it may have it's own thread started... we shall see. - IT HAS
So, here is the orange turd.
I've always wanted an orange car. I've never wanted a Seicento. How the FK did this happen??
Fairly low mileage. What an exciting lump of excrement.
A friend and I have thought about doing one of these banger rallies or similar, and so we went shopping. On the internet. Always a good idea.
We wanted something that had no real redeemable features, so it couldn't be fast, fun, driftable. Ideally limited tuning options so we could use our motorsport engineering knowledge to good measure rather than just buying off the shelf. Above all though it had to be cheap. So cheap.
What we have ended up with is this Fiat Seicento S 1100 in what I would describe as 'f**king orange'.
- Side Bar - I worked in Land Rover SVO paint shop for a while, and someone ordered an XJR in a very vivid shade of orange, and it was a big car. Upon walking out of the office and seeing this car someone exclaimed 'That's f**king orange!' it tickled me a bit so I started coming up with amusing colour names, although sadly none were taken on officially. Others include Hearing Aid Beige Metallic, Surrender White and Medicinal Jade... I think we had a 'Hardcore Buttercup' too.
Anyway, the Fiat has no MOT, so we got it cheap enough, £123.50. The seller wouldn't knock off 5p to make it a better number. Plans are a bit vague still we'll see if the MOT throws up any horror stories,
As this could end up being a bit of a 'build' it may have it's own thread started... we shall see. - IT HAS
So, here is the orange turd.
I've always wanted an orange car. I've never wanted a Seicento. How the FK did this happen??
Fairly low mileage. What an exciting lump of excrement.
My friend that has bought the Seicento with me has made a walk around video of it literally just as it was delivered. He is quite an amusing and excitable chap, so worth the nearly 9 minutes of orange glory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCduKwOVw-U
Whilst the Fiat is stranded at James' I have not been able to even see it with my own eyes yet, however, he has given it a polish up and it looks pretty tidy.
I can't help but think if the seller had gone to the effort of cleaning the car they may have got a bit more for it!
James even gave the tip a polish... (Just the tip...)
Unfortunately James has also found some rust too. It looks repairable though, and we were probably going to strip the axles etc out of the car anyway during the prep for it, so it won't be the end of the world, if a trifle annoying.
We're also on the look out for a set of wheels with at least half decent tyres. We're hoping to stick with 13s but maybe go an inch or two wider, Alloys or steels, doesn't matter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCduKwOVw-U
Whilst the Fiat is stranded at James' I have not been able to even see it with my own eyes yet, however, he has given it a polish up and it looks pretty tidy.
I can't help but think if the seller had gone to the effort of cleaning the car they may have got a bit more for it!
James even gave the tip a polish... (Just the tip...)
Unfortunately James has also found some rust too. It looks repairable though, and we were probably going to strip the axles etc out of the car anyway during the prep for it, so it won't be the end of the world, if a trifle annoying.
We're also on the look out for a set of wheels with at least half decent tyres. We're hoping to stick with 13s but maybe go an inch or two wider, Alloys or steels, doesn't matter.
I've finally made some progress on the Seicento, with a fair bit of help from my friend I bought the car with.
I don't have photos of all of it... anyway, James took it for MOT, and it had a few failures;
Both jacking points rotten on the front rot had gone through
Subframe rotten (which we knew about)
Front Indicator not working
The indicator was an easy fix, someone had fitted a replacement bulb at some point with all the finesse of Mr Trump. Refitting correctly and she was in.
Next I attacked the floors with the grinder. The rot on the floor itself wasn't too bad, but I cut it well back as long term we may fit a cage, so want to make sure there is good metal there.
I cut the rot out, and found another few bits in the process, so it's all getting done in one go.
Finally we gave it a zap of primer.
We then pulled the old subframe off and it was a lot crustier than we thought! James pooped himself a bit when he saw that as he'd given it a thrash on the way back from MOT!
We picked up a replacement subframe from down in Hove, it was nice to see the sea for a bit, and had an ice cream on the sea front. Having grown up in Warwickshire we pretty much only get to see it on holiday!
Anyway, once back in Warwickshire we gave it a good clean up and a lick of black paint.
As we had everything off the car we did a few more jobs too;
New hard lines on the rear arms
New braided lines on the rear (fronts will be fitted soon)
Gave the underside of the car a good scrub to get rid of the muck
Whilst we had the interior out we chucked in one of my race seats to see if it would fit and it was absolutely bob on! Just one mounting point needs some modification, the others all line up nicely!
James was happy!
James took her for MOT today and she passed. There were a few advisories but we will deal with them down the line on teardown. Now we know she is not useless we are going to order a full set of engine service parts, make a new back box, wire in a tach, fit the race seats, a set of decent pads, then off to a track day.
We just need to decide on a track that suits a 'momentum' car, but is also fun... Having said that, she isn't totally timid, a quick spin round the lanes on the farm and she was lighting up the tyres on dry tarmac... TBC.
I don't have photos of all of it... anyway, James took it for MOT, and it had a few failures;
Both jacking points rotten on the front rot had gone through
Subframe rotten (which we knew about)
Front Indicator not working
The indicator was an easy fix, someone had fitted a replacement bulb at some point with all the finesse of Mr Trump. Refitting correctly and she was in.
Next I attacked the floors with the grinder. The rot on the floor itself wasn't too bad, but I cut it well back as long term we may fit a cage, so want to make sure there is good metal there.
I cut the rot out, and found another few bits in the process, so it's all getting done in one go.
Finally we gave it a zap of primer.
We then pulled the old subframe off and it was a lot crustier than we thought! James pooped himself a bit when he saw that as he'd given it a thrash on the way back from MOT!
We picked up a replacement subframe from down in Hove, it was nice to see the sea for a bit, and had an ice cream on the sea front. Having grown up in Warwickshire we pretty much only get to see it on holiday!
Anyway, once back in Warwickshire we gave it a good clean up and a lick of black paint.
As we had everything off the car we did a few more jobs too;
New hard lines on the rear arms
New braided lines on the rear (fronts will be fitted soon)
Gave the underside of the car a good scrub to get rid of the muck
Whilst we had the interior out we chucked in one of my race seats to see if it would fit and it was absolutely bob on! Just one mounting point needs some modification, the others all line up nicely!
James was happy!
James took her for MOT today and she passed. There were a few advisories but we will deal with them down the line on teardown. Now we know she is not useless we are going to order a full set of engine service parts, make a new back box, wire in a tach, fit the race seats, a set of decent pads, then off to a track day.
We just need to decide on a track that suits a 'momentum' car, but is also fun... Having said that, she isn't totally timid, a quick spin round the lanes on the farm and she was lighting up the tyres on dry tarmac... TBC.
Further work on the Seicento; all the tar pads have been scraped off the floors now, so that's about 5kg saved. We also have cut the back box out and straight piped it (because why not, we are under no illusion... we do not think it is going to gain us any power), cutting the back box out has saved a few kg too, and it sounded pretty rattly, so I assume it was rotten. We have kept the awesome chrome tip though!
I've also welded up all the body pressing holes in the floor, of which there are 5 each side. I found a hole in the inner sill, which I cut out and plated over, and whilst I was about it I also boxed in the seat mounts for better support too.
Tomorrow will be removing the rear wiper, headlining and so forth.
Then, OMP buckets in, and service the engine ready for the track day!
I've also welded up all the body pressing holes in the floor, of which there are 5 each side. I found a hole in the inner sill, which I cut out and plated over, and whilst I was about it I also boxed in the seat mounts for better support too.
Tomorrow will be removing the rear wiper, headlining and so forth.
Then, OMP buckets in, and service the engine ready for the track day!
We hope to get two track days in this year if we can, one as she currently is, and one with at least a set of updated springs. We are currently investigating options for more power. These range from a full rebuild of the standard engine with a funky cam, through to finding a smashed up Abarth 595 and trying to swap the running gear over.
I'll do a quick write up of where we are now with the Seicento.
Main thing is, the interior has gone, and so has the sound deadening pads. This saved at least 7kg just from removing the tar. We have also removed the radio and speakers etc. When we take the dash out for fitting the cage we'll lighten it more too.
I also made up a new towing eye mount, tig welded up with a machined threaded bung, a short offset of CDS roll cage material and some 3mm plate. This bolts in to some pre-existing holes in the chassis rail.
And in position on the car...
I also gave the engine a full service whilst the bumper was off the car, easy access. The radiator was also cleaned and flushed a few times. Plugs changed, and a new alternator belt went on too.
I then bolted the seats in, the drivers one on runners as we may let some friends have a go. James and I have the same driving position, although I am a bit taller I prefer sitting closer to the wheel.
As we have not got a cage in, we're still on the standard 3 point seat belts, but threaded through the buckets.
I borrowed a pair of Borbet alloys off a friend which I was repairing his Uno, to check fitting larger wheels. They clear on the back, just by 8mm, but they hit the track rod arm on the front, so if we go larger we will need deeper dishes... which is no bad thing. Tucked up, ready for the first track day!
I'll do a quick write up of where we are now with the Seicento.
Main thing is, the interior has gone, and so has the sound deadening pads. This saved at least 7kg just from removing the tar. We have also removed the radio and speakers etc. When we take the dash out for fitting the cage we'll lighten it more too.
I also made up a new towing eye mount, tig welded up with a machined threaded bung, a short offset of CDS roll cage material and some 3mm plate. This bolts in to some pre-existing holes in the chassis rail.
And in position on the car...
I also gave the engine a full service whilst the bumper was off the car, easy access. The radiator was also cleaned and flushed a few times. Plugs changed, and a new alternator belt went on too.
I then bolted the seats in, the drivers one on runners as we may let some friends have a go. James and I have the same driving position, although I am a bit taller I prefer sitting closer to the wheel.
As we have not got a cage in, we're still on the standard 3 point seat belts, but threaded through the buckets.
I borrowed a pair of Borbet alloys off a friend which I was repairing his Uno, to check fitting larger wheels. They clear on the back, just by 8mm, but they hit the track rod arm on the front, so if we go larger we will need deeper dishes... which is no bad thing. Tucked up, ready for the first track day!
Back at the start of October we had our first track day...
Some time was spent spanner checking, fluid, tyre pressures etc... and adding a mount for a tablet too to act as a digital display for things like rev counter, engine temp etc. This is all run from the OBD port.
The track day started off wet and cold, by lunch the track was almost dry, but unfortunately it rained again over lunch and never really let off.
We got a few overtakes in, mostly on small stuff like 2CVs, Citroen C1s etc. We did manage to carry better corner speed than many other cars, including a Nissan GTR. Fast on the straights but the driver wasnt quick on the corners.
Just before the sighting laps...
Overall, it was a good day, and good fun. Few minor issues, found out we blew a shock. Also once we were down to a quarter of a tank we were getting really bad fuel starvation.
However, we managed to carry good corner speed. Getting around 80mph round Gerards isn't bad for a totally stock crapbox. Used the sidewalls a bit too!
So next for the Seicento will be new springs and dampers, full service again, and look at some kind of external swirlpot.
Some time was spent spanner checking, fluid, tyre pressures etc... and adding a mount for a tablet too to act as a digital display for things like rev counter, engine temp etc. This is all run from the OBD port.
The track day started off wet and cold, by lunch the track was almost dry, but unfortunately it rained again over lunch and never really let off.
We got a few overtakes in, mostly on small stuff like 2CVs, Citroen C1s etc. We did manage to carry better corner speed than many other cars, including a Nissan GTR. Fast on the straights but the driver wasnt quick on the corners.
Just before the sighting laps...
Overall, it was a good day, and good fun. Few minor issues, found out we blew a shock. Also once we were down to a quarter of a tank we were getting really bad fuel starvation.
However, we managed to carry good corner speed. Getting around 80mph round Gerards isn't bad for a totally stock crapbox. Used the sidewalls a bit too!
So next for the Seicento will be new springs and dampers, full service again, and look at some kind of external swirlpot.
And to bring us up to date with the car...
She is now sitting 60mm lower all round! We used proper lowering springs, and we also have replaced the dampers with new Sachs items. Hopefully the working dampers and stiffer, lower springs will negate some of the understeer we suffered before. We were meant to be next out at Mallory with Javelin track days on the 14th November, but obviously the new lockdown put paid to that idea.
We may leave the car as is over winter, or we may make some other changes... currently the list looks like;
- fabricate an upper and lower strut brace for the front
- Drop the subframes, fuel tank and give the floor a good clean and paint
- Fabricate and install a rear anti-roll bar
We may do the roll cage this winter, or we may do it next year now when it's easier / legal for two of us to work on the car at the same time.
We also found that our wheel catches one of the replacement front dampers too. We had a suspicion that it was out of round, but the fact it was jamming solid proved it. We bought another set of Sporting alloys with nearly new tyres from Rotherham which we will get once lock down is over.
Here is a few clips of the Seicento at Mallory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EyzppEYlkI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omACruW9-lo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTRtbWzHjZI
She is now sitting 60mm lower all round! We used proper lowering springs, and we also have replaced the dampers with new Sachs items. Hopefully the working dampers and stiffer, lower springs will negate some of the understeer we suffered before. We were meant to be next out at Mallory with Javelin track days on the 14th November, but obviously the new lockdown put paid to that idea.
We may leave the car as is over winter, or we may make some other changes... currently the list looks like;
- fabricate an upper and lower strut brace for the front
- Drop the subframes, fuel tank and give the floor a good clean and paint
- Fabricate and install a rear anti-roll bar
We may do the roll cage this winter, or we may do it next year now when it's easier / legal for two of us to work on the car at the same time.
We also found that our wheel catches one of the replacement front dampers too. We had a suspicion that it was out of round, but the fact it was jamming solid proved it. We bought another set of Sporting alloys with nearly new tyres from Rotherham which we will get once lock down is over.
Here is a few clips of the Seicento at Mallory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EyzppEYlkI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omACruW9-lo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTRtbWzHjZI
Haha, I wouldn't say we 'screamed passed' the BMW, but I guess we did haha. At first we got a lot of wary looks from people in their very expensive track toys. I think our entire car cost less than a set of wheelnuts for some of the cars there! However, we knew we were slow, and kept out of the way and didn't get out of shape on the corners much... There were a few Clio 182s that hit the barriers hard though! After a few sessions we had people coming past us in very potent MX5 race cars, etc giving us devil horns as they came past, and a few thumbs up too.
We have not got a weight on it, although a friend has a set of corner scales, so we may try sticking it on them at some point to get an idea of weight. The rear seat of the Seicento is surprisingly heavy actually, as it's a large steel pressing, as it's also the rear bulkhead. Losing that alone will drop us about 20kg!
We have not got a weight on it, although a friend has a set of corner scales, so we may try sticking it on them at some point to get an idea of weight. The rear seat of the Seicento is surprisingly heavy actually, as it's a large steel pressing, as it's also the rear bulkhead. Losing that alone will drop us about 20kg!
Edited by Jonny-Jimbo on Thursday 24th June 10:49
Yup, we'll get some in car footage, and maybe some better quality external too.
Yes, I think that in terms of BHP to lap time we were up there, although of course that graph would not be a straight line! There was also a 2CV there that was seriously quick, and very well sorted, zero body roll and 100% dedication on tip-in.
Yes, I think that in terms of BHP to lap time we were up there, although of course that graph would not be a straight line! There was also a 2CV there that was seriously quick, and very well sorted, zero body roll and 100% dedication on tip-in.
. I too work at JLR
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