Peugeot 205 XR
Discussion
If you strip it down you'll still probably get charged the same - I would ask for an estimate first for him to do the full strip down and new gasket, and then ask if you can save a few quid by doing some of the work first. He might just want to do the full job for the correct amount, rather than half a job for half the money.
In addition, you have to establish if the head is warped which could only be done at a machine shop, really. It might be cheaper to just buy a known good replacement head so you don't have to get it skimmed.
But then you'd have to make sure you were getting exactly the right head for the right engine block, and that the 'new' head is sound and not warped. If your head is warped and you put a new gasket on, it will be all of that expense for nothing.
The head might have warped because the fans don't work, leading to overheating. Its not the end of the world but it looks like you do have some choices to make.
Incidentally try looking for a brown 3 pin plug/connector that isn't attached to anything but is part of the fan loom/wiring. That's the test connector which you can jump with a bit of wire I mentioned previously - from the middle pin to one side with a bit of wire will give you either 50% or 100% fan speed. If it doesn't activate the fan, you need a new fan, or the test connector wiring is kaput.
If badly corroded, cut the plug away, identify which is the middle wire and in turn, expose some wiring and touch the middle wire to the others in turn, should bypass the corrosion, unless the copper wire inside is all black.
In addition, you have to establish if the head is warped which could only be done at a machine shop, really. It might be cheaper to just buy a known good replacement head so you don't have to get it skimmed.
But then you'd have to make sure you were getting exactly the right head for the right engine block, and that the 'new' head is sound and not warped. If your head is warped and you put a new gasket on, it will be all of that expense for nothing.
The head might have warped because the fans don't work, leading to overheating. Its not the end of the world but it looks like you do have some choices to make.
Incidentally try looking for a brown 3 pin plug/connector that isn't attached to anything but is part of the fan loom/wiring. That's the test connector which you can jump with a bit of wire I mentioned previously - from the middle pin to one side with a bit of wire will give you either 50% or 100% fan speed. If it doesn't activate the fan, you need a new fan, or the test connector wiring is kaput.
If badly corroded, cut the plug away, identify which is the middle wire and in turn, expose some wiring and touch the middle wire to the others in turn, should bypass the corrosion, unless the copper wire inside is all black.
Edited by ReverendCounter on Tuesday 19th January 15:14
ReverendCounter said:
If you strip it down you'll still probably get charged the same - I would ask for an estimate first for him to do the full strip down and new gasket, and then ask if you can save a few quid by doing some of the work first. He might just want to do the full job for the correct amount, rather than half a job for half the money.
In addition, you have to establish if the head is warped which could only be done at a machine shop, really. It might be cheaper to just buy a known good replacement head so you don't have to get it skimmed.
But then you'd have to make sure you were getting exactly the right head for the right engine block, and that the 'new' head is sound and not warped. If your head is warped and you put a new gasket on, it will be all of that expense for nothing.
The head might have warped because the fans don't work, leading to overheating. Its not the end of the world but it looks like you do have some choices to make.
Okay. It sounds like testing whether the fans work is an important first step. Someone in this thread (may have been you, apologies if so!) offered a way of testing this. So sounds like I should try something first. In addition, you have to establish if the head is warped which could only be done at a machine shop, really. It might be cheaper to just buy a known good replacement head so you don't have to get it skimmed.
But then you'd have to make sure you were getting exactly the right head for the right engine block, and that the 'new' head is sound and not warped. If your head is warped and you put a new gasket on, it will be all of that expense for nothing.
The head might have warped because the fans don't work, leading to overheating. Its not the end of the world but it looks like you do have some choices to make.
By stripping down, I really just meant taking off crankshaft pulley / belts / covers etc. So might save an hour of his time ...
For some reason I can't upload pics at the moment - the brown plug on this fan loom in this thread is what you're looking for:
https://www.205gtidrivers.com/forums/topic/146699-...
https://www.205gtidrivers.com/forums/topic/146699-...
PrinceRupert said:
Sadly, I think I do have a problem with burning coolant. I took off the air filter housing this morning to inspect the carburettor and found a milky coolant/oil mixture inside the oil breather hose (plus still under the oil filter lid). The coolant level in the header tank appears to have dropped quite a bit. I also had quite a lot of oil on the cambelt side of the engine when I did the cambelt, which apparently may be from a headgasket leak. This plus steam apparently coming out of the engine does not seem good...
It's not unusual to find milky deposits around the breather hose's and filler cap. If you are losing coolant though, that doesn't sound so good. Of course if the coolant wasn't bled properly at the start, you may have dislodged some more air when you drove it and the thermostat opened. I would be inclined to fill it back you, run it up to temperature so all the old spilled oil and coolant burns off and see what happens. If it holds temperature, take it for a short drive. Keep an eye on the gauge and it might be worth taking a bottle of water with you, just in case.If it does turn out to be the head gasket, you really need to have a think about what you want to do and how much you want to spend. If you can do the cambelt, I really can't see you having much of a problem doing the head gasket. But it really comes down to cost.
Head gasket kit, compression test the head and have it skimmed, do these have stretch bolts? I agree with the above about the head. Mine was cracked on my 205 when I got it tested, I sourced a brand new head. I wouldn't fit a 2nd hand head without it being tested for warpage and a compression test.
A replacement engine from a known runner maybe a better bet. I assume the fuel injected cars can be retro fitted with a carb.
Edited by xstian on Tuesday 19th January 15:32
xstian said:
It's not unusual to find milky deposits around the breather hose's and filler cap. If you are losing coolant though, that doesn't sound so good. Of course if the coolant wasn't bled properly at the start, you may have dislodged some more air when you drove it and the thermostat opened. I would be inclined to fill it back you, run it up to temperature so all the old spilled oil and coolant burns off and see what happens. If it holds temperature, take it for a short drive. Keep an eye on the gauge and it might be worth taking a bottle of water with you, just in case.
If it does turn out to be the head gasket, you really need to have a think about what you want to do and how much you want to spend. If you can do the cambelt, I really can't see you having much of a problem doing the head gasket. But it really comes down to cost.
Head gasket kit, compression test the head and have it skimmed, do these have stretch bolts?
A replacement engine from a known runner maybe a better bet. I assume the fuel injected cars can be retro fitted with a carb.
That is a good point, perhaps I didn't properly bleed the system and therefore that is why the levels dropped. I am getting a lot of white smoke though. It was running okay when I bought it, was taken on a test drive, had an MOT ...If it does turn out to be the head gasket, you really need to have a think about what you want to do and how much you want to spend. If you can do the cambelt, I really can't see you having much of a problem doing the head gasket. But it really comes down to cost.
Head gasket kit, compression test the head and have it skimmed, do these have stretch bolts?
A replacement engine from a known runner maybe a better bet. I assume the fuel injected cars can be retro fitted with a carb.
If the head gasket is relatively straight forward, I am happy to give it a go. The bits aren't expensive. I'm just concerned that I won't know when its open if everything looks like it should. So the basic premise would be take head off, send it away somewhere to be compression tested and skimmed, put it back together?
PrinceRupert said:
Thank you! Found it. After a few false starts (possibly due to surface corrosion not allowing proper contact), I got a spark and a spinning fan. So good news, I guess!
That means the fans work, but it doesn't mean the temperature switch (which is more likely to fail) is working. Yes, good news on the fan - but if the head is warped, that will only be due to overheating. If the fan works, then maybe it hasn't been kicking in due to faulty coolant temp or coolant level sensor. The engine needs to run until the fans kick in - or the coolant temp sensor needs to be tested by itself, but the head needs to be inspected for warping otherwise it could all be for nothing.
When you say some time, do you mean 10mins, possibly a few more? It can take that long for the fans to kick in. As long as you've got oil and coolant in, there might be a bit of steam while it runs, but if you have a temp gauge on the dash, keep an eye while the engine is running. If it get to the top of the scale (like, just before red) and the fans don't kick in, it's probably the sensor.
At this point, where you're about to enter the red, jump the fan test connector manually on 100% and switch the engine off, otherwise your coolant will boil over when the water pump also stops, which it obviously will, and I would let the fan run for a couple of minutes.
At this point, where you're about to enter the red, jump the fan test connector manually on 100% and switch the engine off, otherwise your coolant will boil over when the water pump also stops, which it obviously will, and I would let the fan run for a couple of minutes.
Edited by ReverendCounter on Tuesday 19th January 16:33
ReverendCounter said:
When you say some time, do you mean 10mins, possibly a few more? It can take that long for the fans to kick in. As long as you've got oil and coolant in, there might be a bit of steam while it runs, but if you have a temp gauge on the dash, keep an eye while the engine is running. If it get to the top of the scale (like, just before red) and the fans don't kick in, it's probably the sensor.
At this point, where you're about to enter the red, jump the fan test connector manually on 100% and switch the engine off, otherwise your coolant will boil over when the water pump also stops, which it obviously will, and I would let the fan run for a couple of minutes.
Thanks. I may be being stupid, but if my temperature sensor isn't working, won't the temperature gauge on the dash not read accurately? At this point, where you're about to enter the red, jump the fan test connector manually on 100% and switch the engine off, otherwise your coolant will boil over when the water pump also stops, which it obviously will, and I would let the fan run for a couple of minutes.
Edited by ReverendCounter on Tuesday 19th January 16:33
You have could have three sensors relating to coolant -
the temperature switch - controls the fan
the coolant level sensor - sends a signal to the coolant level gauge
and the temperature sensor - a warning light on the dash, possibly 'STOP' or a coolant symbol in red, or perhaps the red warning light at the far end of the coolant temp gauge
- ACTUALLY I might have the second two mixed up - but regardless, they control the dash info rather than the fan.
You should see some movement in the coolant temperature gauge within the first couple/three minutes (perhaps more in very cold weather) then you can rely on that to keep on running the engine until the fans kick in, or the temp gauge goes to the red.
the temperature switch - controls the fan
the coolant level sensor - sends a signal to the coolant level gauge
and the temperature sensor - a warning light on the dash, possibly 'STOP' or a coolant symbol in red, or perhaps the red warning light at the far end of the coolant temp gauge
- ACTUALLY I might have the second two mixed up - but regardless, they control the dash info rather than the fan.
You should see some movement in the coolant temperature gauge within the first couple/three minutes (perhaps more in very cold weather) then you can rely on that to keep on running the engine until the fans kick in, or the temp gauge goes to the red.
Edited by ReverendCounter on Tuesday 19th January 18:13
So, little update.
First things - I don't actually have a temperature gauge ...
I do have a high temperature warning light, which has never come on.
I idled the car for about ten or fifteen minutes this afternoon, after topping up the coolant. It idles okay with the choke out a bit, but even after ten minutes it still bogs down if you put the choke fully in, and stalls with too much acceleration. The good news is, in that time the coolant level did not drop and after it warmed up a bit there wasn't much white smoke from the exhaust.
The bad news is it started steaming heavily - this time, because I left it long enough, it was very apparent the steam was coming from the radiator. So I turned it off at this point. The fans had not activated at this point. The lower radiator hose was still cold.
Perhaps faulty thermostat? Or could I still not have bled the system properly...?
First things - I don't actually have a temperature gauge ...
I do have a high temperature warning light, which has never come on. I idled the car for about ten or fifteen minutes this afternoon, after topping up the coolant. It idles okay with the choke out a bit, but even after ten minutes it still bogs down if you put the choke fully in, and stalls with too much acceleration. The good news is, in that time the coolant level did not drop and after it warmed up a bit there wasn't much white smoke from the exhaust.
The bad news is it started steaming heavily - this time, because I left it long enough, it was very apparent the steam was coming from the radiator. So I turned it off at this point. The fans had not activated at this point. The lower radiator hose was still cold.
Perhaps faulty thermostat? Or could I still not have bled the system properly...?
Might as well. On older machines, these are always failure points at one point or another in an old car's life, might as well kill many birds with one stone, and only have to refill the coolant once. Did you check if there was a particular bleeding process related to the 205? I know many manufacturers are self-bleeding but unsure if the 205 is.
PrinceRupert said:
Okay, in line with my trigger's broom approach so far I have ordered a new radiator (it desperately needs one, to be fair); a new thermostat (cheap); and a new fan switch (also cheap).
Bon courage!After I bought my Lancia Appia, for about a month I despaired and thought that I had conned myself into buying an utter lemon. The car had been standing in a collection for many years. It was unreliable in every way. It had been bodged in various ways.
The mobile mechanic that I hire painstakingly and patiently went through every system on the car, repairing and replacing, and now the car runs like a sewing machine.
Forza!
Moving away from the engine, today's job was 50% successful.
Successful
Defeated by a rusty rounded off bolt.
Cant quite work out why the bolt on one side looked brand new and on the other side is a rusty mess. Unless someone had the same problem previously....
I think I'll try cutting a slot into the head of the bolt and turning it with a screw driver.
Oh and I managed to take a chunk out the top of each thumb trying to get the bush into the mount...
Successful
Defeated by a rusty rounded off bolt.
Cant quite work out why the bolt on one side looked brand new and on the other side is a rusty mess. Unless someone had the same problem previously....
I think I'll try cutting a slot into the head of the bolt and turning it with a screw driver.
Oh and I managed to take a chunk out the top of each thumb trying to get the bush into the mount...
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