Peugeot 205 XR
Discussion
CarlosV8 said:
Is the flywheel locked with a snug fitting pin?
Was the belt contaminated with fresh oil or old oil? I know that area can get mucky with oil from a combination of weeps - not necessarily the head gasket, it could be from the rocker cover, cam oil seal, crank oil seal or sump. Because of the moving belts a few drops of oil can make a right mess!
Definitely worth a clean up whilst you're there, which will make any leak easier to track later on. I would think any engine degreaser would be ok, just go easy with using water as you don't want it getting in the electrics or in the engine!
Coolant doesn't look too bad if its been in there that long. A mayo type substance would indicate oil and coolant mixing. Have you renewed the water pump whilst the cambelt is off? Worth doing for peace of mind, especially after sitting for so long.
The flywheel is not presently locked, as the hole doesn't line up - think it got knocked out of time when I turned the engine by the camshaft and the belt jumped a few teeth. My plan is to get my better half to hold a 6mm drill bit through the hole with gentle pressure whilst I rock the crankshaft gently forward and back until it slots in. The camshaft is locked. Was the belt contaminated with fresh oil or old oil? I know that area can get mucky with oil from a combination of weeps - not necessarily the head gasket, it could be from the rocker cover, cam oil seal, crank oil seal or sump. Because of the moving belts a few drops of oil can make a right mess!
Definitely worth a clean up whilst you're there, which will make any leak easier to track later on. I would think any engine degreaser would be ok, just go easy with using water as you don't want it getting in the electrics or in the engine!
Coolant doesn't look too bad if its been in there that long. A mayo type substance would indicate oil and coolant mixing. Have you renewed the water pump whilst the cambelt is off? Worth doing for peace of mind, especially after sitting for so long.
The belt was contaminated with old oil, but during fitting I believe, as the old one was not contaminated when it came off. It is pretty oily on that side of the engine, there is a leak from somewhere. I am hoping it is not the headgasket - I know it is common on that side of the engine, but the engine is oily on the bottom on the other side as well, so possibly the rocker cover gasket. I understand the rocker cover gasket is a cheap and easy fix, so gonna clean up and try to find the leak. I have 10l of Gunk to apply liberally.
The water pump has been renewed, yes. There doesn't seem to be any evidence of mixing of coolant/oil, no mayo under the filler cap etc.
So the plan is to get it cleaned up, find the timing, fit the timing belt, fit the aux belt, pop the spark plugs back in, change the oil and filter and hopefully Bob's your auntie. Refill it with coolant, cross my fingers and turn the key...
The remaining parts - drive shafts, engine mounts, discs, pads - won't be going on until I know the engine is running smoothly!
Edited by PrinceRupert on Tuesday 8th December 11:01
So this morning I decided to remove the radiator to give better access to the hole to lock the flywheel. The radiator has seen better days:
So will need to order a replacement before I refit.
I have a bunch of random cables with connectors that are not connected to anything. Who knows what they are all for ...
Who rates my chances of getting it back together
Can anyone tell me what the name of the part is that covers the exhaust manifold and has the pipe running up to the air intake? It is looking pretty sorry for itself and I would like to replace it. EDIT: It is the exhaust manifold hot air shroud...but where to find one.
So will need to order a replacement before I refit.
I have a bunch of random cables with connectors that are not connected to anything. Who knows what they are all for ...
Who rates my chances of getting it back together
Can anyone tell me what the name of the part is that covers the exhaust manifold and has the pipe running up to the air intake? It is looking pretty sorry for itself and I would like to replace it. EDIT: It is the exhaust manifold hot air shroud...but where to find one.
Edited by PrinceRupert on Tuesday 8th December 15:11
So, great news - my engine is back in time! It turns out with the radiator out I could turn the crankshaft whilst pushing the bolt through the flywheel hole. The bolt is now snugly through the flywheel and the crank is locked. Woohoo!
Spent a bit of time degreasing with Gunk and water but suspect I might need something stronger.
I suspect fabricating anything is beyond my skill set The manifold itself is looking pretty rusty and I did think "hey maybe I'll replace it whilst I am in here" but if I take that approach I'll replace everything and I am not sure that's a sensible way of spending my money ...
Spent a bit of time degreasing with Gunk and water but suspect I might need something stronger.
I suspect fabricating anything is beyond my skill set
The manifold itself is looking pretty rusty and I did think "hey maybe I'll replace it whilst I am in here" but if I take that approach I'll replace everything and I am not sure that's a sensible way of spending my money ...Edited by PrinceRupert on Tuesday 8th December 18:26
ReverendCounter]rinceRupert said:
The manifold itself is looking pretty rusty and I did think "hey maybe I'll replace it whilst I am in here"
It's likely to be a cast iron manifold so as long as its not cracked, a rusted one will work just as good as a new non rusty one - your choice of course but you also risk snapped studs in your cylinder head if you decide to replace it because they can be tough to get out in one piece.
Noted - will be getting left well alone!It's likely to be a cast iron manifold so as long as its not cracked, a rusted one will work just as good as a new non rusty one - your choice of course but you also risk snapped studs in your cylinder head if you decide to replace it because they can be tough to get out in one piece.
Oil change today, took the grand total of about ten minutes to do, very easy - other than I couldn't find the bloody sump plug, spent twenty minutes looking for it ... it was in my bucket of old engine oil. Doh.
I also spent a bit of time attacking the engine with Gunk degreaser and powerwashing the bottom of the engine (staying as far away from any electrics as i could!). Looking a bit shinier.
Still not entirely clear where the engine coolant drain plug is ....
I also spent a bit of time attacking the engine with Gunk degreaser and powerwashing the bottom of the engine (staying as far away from any electrics as i could!). Looking a bit shinier.
Still not entirely clear where the engine coolant drain plug is ....
I thought today was going so well. Gave everything a good clean up, fitted belt, tensioned, turned it over a few times, still tight. Superb.
Reattaching crank pulley...
curse word! snapped bolt. Fml.
Plus the belt now doesn't seem to be tense. Wtf?!
Not sure what to do now...no idea why I can't seem to get the belt to stay tense, plus not particularly keen to try and drill that bolt out myself...
EDIT: A bit of googling suggests it can be normal for a timing belt to sit a bit loose when not turning ... is this right?
Reattaching crank pulley...
curse word! snapped bolt. Fml.
Plus the belt now doesn't seem to be tense. Wtf?!
Not sure what to do now...no idea why I can't seem to get the belt to stay tense, plus not particularly keen to try and drill that bolt out myself...
EDIT: A bit of googling suggests it can be normal for a timing belt to sit a bit loose when not turning ... is this right?
Edited by PrinceRupert on Sunday 13th December 15:18
Success!
Will now need to acquire some new bolts however. I can get three bolts for about 12 quid including delivery, or a whole new pulley for around 25 quid. Hmm.
On the belt itself, I am a bit stumped. As I said, the belt was tight, then it was loose between cam and crank. If I turn the crank a tiny bit, it tightens right up, and turns. See video of tension here: https://i.imgur.com/X8P5Lmy.mp4
The problem is this happens when I am turning it. Although I can turn it all the way round without losing time - it is sitting with the locking bolts in now, perfectly in time, having been turned a couple of times.
I assume this is not normal, but no idea how to sort it. There isn't slack to take out via the tensioner. It is almost as if the belt has too many teeth, but as far as I can see it has the right number. Stupidly I binned the old belt so cannot count and check.
Will now need to acquire some new bolts however. I can get three bolts for about 12 quid including delivery, or a whole new pulley for around 25 quid. Hmm.
On the belt itself, I am a bit stumped. As I said, the belt was tight, then it was loose between cam and crank. If I turn the crank a tiny bit, it tightens right up, and turns. See video of tension here: https://i.imgur.com/X8P5Lmy.mp4
The problem is this happens when I am turning it. Although I can turn it all the way round without losing time - it is sitting with the locking bolts in now, perfectly in time, having been turned a couple of times.
I assume this is not normal, but no idea how to sort it. There isn't slack to take out via the tensioner. It is almost as if the belt has too many teeth, but as far as I can see it has the right number. Stupidly I binned the old belt so cannot count and check.
You can see the part number in the picture, 94256 - https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/dayco-222103.html - 108 teeth, 17mm wide, fits TU3A, TU3A1, TU3TR engine. OEM number 81644 - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Timing-Belt-81644-For-C... - same spec. My engine is marked "K1G", which you can see from this is TU3 - http://www.205gti.com/wp/codenummers/. From here - https://www.205gtidrivers.com/forums/topic/116719-... - TU3A.
So in short...it should be the right belt. Could it just be a crap one?
So in short...it should be the right belt. Could it just be a crap one?
ReverendCounter said:
You said in your first post that it may have had an engine change, or some engine work. Maybe you've bought the correct belt for the original engine which has since been swapped, or maybe it has a different cylinder head on it (its not unheard of).
Basically I think you need to definitely determine whether the engine is modded with a different cylinder head.
It is marked K1G on the block, which is TU3. Not sure how one would check if the head has been changed...Basically I think you need to definitely determine whether the engine is modded with a different cylinder head.
Engine number - 9602257310
VIN - VF320CK1223869330
Engine code = CK1
Block is stamped K1G not CK1, though both are TU3
This eBay listing - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RECONDITIONED-CYLINDER-... - is a cylinder head from a 1.1l, with the same engine number. Though this is from a 1.4 and has the same engine number - https://www.xdalys.lt/en/peugeot-205-14-8v-head-96... Possibly used the same heads?
VIN - VF320CK1223869330
Engine code = CK1
Block is stamped K1G not CK1, though both are TU3
This eBay listing - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RECONDITIONED-CYLINDER-... - is a cylinder head from a 1.1l, with the same engine number. Though this is from a 1.4 and has the same engine number - https://www.xdalys.lt/en/peugeot-205-14-8v-head-96... Possibly used the same heads?
According to the site linked below, the K1G is 70bhp.
http://www.suzukituning.com/PSA/TU3Tuning/TU3Tunin...
Not sure if CK1 = TU3, and K1G = type of TU3?
http://www.suzukituning.com/PSA/TU3Tuning/TU3Tunin...
Not sure if CK1 = TU3, and K1G = type of TU3?
ReverendCounter said:
Yes, it seems you *may* have a slightly different engine.
Looks like TU3 come in certain versions like TU3M, TU3JP + TU3F, also a TU3.2 (there are one or two more) - BUT some of these are fuel injected and some carbs - is yours carbed, seeing as it has a manual choke?
Yes, single carb.Looks like TU3 come in certain versions like TU3M, TU3JP + TU3F, also a TU3.2 (there are one or two more) - BUT some of these are fuel injected and some carbs - is yours carbed, seeing as it has a manual choke?
ReverendCounter said:
OK, so the carbed versions of the TU3 engine seem to be TU3-K1A, TU3-K1D, TU3S-K2A + TU3S-K2B.
Those last two are 80hp, the first are 60hp. Seems yours fits in with the K1 designation, so the next thing is to find out if the cambelt is correct for the K1G engine. If it is, then it looks like you might have a different cylinder head.
Regarding fitting the cam belt, if you put pressure on it at the 12 o'clock position, then 11, 10 and 9, it it possible to force the belt teeth into the pulley, or do they just not fit at all?
My Google seemed to suggest the K1G had 5hp more than the early TU3 i.e. 65hp, not sure why it doesn't appear in the engine lists. Those last two are 80hp, the first are 60hp. Seems yours fits in with the K1 designation, so the next thing is to find out if the cambelt is correct for the K1G engine. If it is, then it looks like you might have a different cylinder head.
Regarding fitting the cam belt, if you put pressure on it at the 12 o'clock position, then 11, 10 and 9, it it possible to force the belt teeth into the pulley, or do they just not fit at all?
I can get the belt totally in the pulley, and tight. It is only when I turn the engine does it seem to loosen off. Perhaps I do need to get the tensioner tighter ...
http://www.peugeot206cc.co.uk/repair-206/206/info/...
This suggests K1G = TU3A/K
Which appears to be 69bhp
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA_TU_engine
This suggests K1G = TU3A/K
Which appears to be 69bhp
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA_TU_engine
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