Peugeot 205 XR
Discussion
Some videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXoyNDm-HWk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxdX2OApJ1Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL3fjkN8t6E
I'd have said the valve is fully open when the cam lobe is at it's lowest point and fully closed when the cam lobe is at it's highest point.
When the cam lobe is lowest it's pushing against the valve springs onto the end of the valve stem and pushing the valve stem fully down seems right to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXoyNDm-HWk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxdX2OApJ1Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL3fjkN8t6E
I'd have said the valve is fully open when the cam lobe is at it's lowest point and fully closed when the cam lobe is at it's highest point.
When the cam lobe is lowest it's pushing against the valve springs onto the end of the valve stem and pushing the valve stem fully down seems right to me.
carinaman said:
It's annoying when things don't go to plan.
The learning experience is it's the baffle plate not your valve adjustments? You wouldn't have known it was the baffle plate without removing the cam cover.
I've bodged the baffle plate with some nuts and it's still clattering so it is my adjustments. I think I first did it with the relevant valve fully closed rather than fully open, so redid it and it is definitely quieter but still way louder than it was. So it is still not right. Ugh.The learning experience is it's the baffle plate not your valve adjustments? You wouldn't have known it was the baffle plate without removing the cam cover.
Okay so did it for a third time and it is now running okay...maybe louder than it was before...hard to tell.
http://imgur.com/a/zaJKhsd (tappety but cold)
The cover is however leaking oil probably because my bodged spacers are the wrong size...
http://imgur.com/a/zaJKhsd (tappety but cold)
The cover is however leaking oil probably because my bodged spacers are the wrong size...
Cascade360 said:
Really stupid question
Is the valve fully open when the rocker cover arm is at its highest point or lowest point?
Haynes doesn't make sense to me
http://www.peugeot205.ru/peugeot205-73.htmlIs the valve fully open when the rocker cover arm is at its highest point or lowest point?
Haynes doesn't make sense to me
"It is important that the clearance of each valve is checked and adjusted only when the valve is fully closed, with the rocker arm resting on the heel of the cam (directly opposite the peak)."
If the valve is being pushed down (opened) by the rocker arm, you won't be able to get your feeler gauges in. You want to rotate the engine until the peak of the cam lobe is pointing 180 degrees away from the rocker arm, then take your measurements and adjust if necessary.
The video you posted may just be too close to the engine, but to me it sounded quite significantly tappety so I think you may need to double check the clearances.
Edited by Mr Happy on Thursday 16th September 19:19
Mr Happy said:
http://www.peugeot205.ru/peugeot205-73.html
"It is important that the clearance of each valve is checked and adjusted only when the valve is fully closed, with the rocker arm resting on the heel of the cam (directly opposite the peak)."
If the valve is being pushed down (opened) by the rocker arm, you won't be able to get your feeler gauges in. You want to rotate the engine until the peak of the cam lobe is pointing 180 degrees away from the rocker arm, then take your measurements and adjust if necessary.
The video you posted may just be too close to the engine, but to me it sounded quite significantly tappety so I think you may need to double check the clearances.
I did read that in Haynes, I just didnt understand it very well "It is important that the clearance of each valve is checked and adjusted only when the valve is fully closed, with the rocker arm resting on the heel of the cam (directly opposite the peak)."
If the valve is being pushed down (opened) by the rocker arm, you won't be able to get your feeler gauges in. You want to rotate the engine until the peak of the cam lobe is pointing 180 degrees away from the rocker arm, then take your measurements and adjust if necessary.
The video you posted may just be too close to the engine, but to me it sounded quite significantly tappety so I think you may need to double check the clearances.
Guess I can check them again, though ive done it the right way twice now. Third times a charm...
You should only feel slight drag on the feeler gauge when moving it across the top of the valve when you adjust the adjustment nut as well, you shouldn't have to force the blade in, nor should it flop around like a sausage in a tunnel.
This kind of thing is very hard to accurately explain by text, as it's something you get by feel. I guess as long as your feeler gauge blade is the correct thickness, you should be alright.
What clearances were you aiming for, 0.15mm intake and 0.30mm exhaust +/- 0.07mm is what I've found for the TU3 and TU5 engines.
This kind of thing is very hard to accurately explain by text, as it's something you get by feel. I guess as long as your feeler gauge blade is the correct thickness, you should be alright.
What clearances were you aiming for, 0.15mm intake and 0.30mm exhaust +/- 0.07mm is what I've found for the TU3 and TU5 engines.
Mr Happy said:
You should only feel slight drag on the feeler gauge when moving it across the top of the valve when you adjust the adjustment nut as well, you shouldn't have to force the blade in, nor should it flop around like a sausage in a tunnel.
This kind of thing is very hard to accurately explain by text, as it's something you get by feel. I guess as long as your feeler gauge blade is the correct thickness, you should be alright.
What clearances were you aiming for, 0.15mm intake and 0.30mm exhaust +/- 0.07mm is what I've found for the TU3 and TU5 engines.
Haynes said 0.15 to 0.25 for intake and 0.35 to 0.45 for exhaust. I used feelers of just over 0.2 for intake and just over 0.4mm for exhaust (stupid imperial feelers). The technique I did third time was tighten each down onto feeler and loosen it off till the feeler just came out.This kind of thing is very hard to accurately explain by text, as it's something you get by feel. I guess as long as your feeler gauge blade is the correct thickness, you should be alright.
What clearances were you aiming for, 0.15mm intake and 0.30mm exhaust +/- 0.07mm is what I've found for the TU3 and TU5 engines.
Cascade360 said:
Mr Happy said:
You should only feel slight drag on the feeler gauge when moving it across the top of the valve when you adjust the adjustment nut as well, you shouldn't have to force the blade in, nor should it flop around like a sausage in a tunnel.
This kind of thing is very hard to accurately explain by text, as it's something you get by feel. I guess as long as your feeler gauge blade is the correct thickness, you should be alright.
What clearances were you aiming for, 0.15mm intake and 0.30mm exhaust +/- 0.07mm is what I've found for the TU3 and TU5 engines.
Haynes said 0.15 to 0.25 for intake and 0.35 to 0.45 for exhaust. I used feelers of just over 0.2 for intake and just over 0.4mm for exhaust (stupid imperial feelers). The technique I did third time was tighten each down onto feeler and loosen it off till the feeler just came out.This kind of thing is very hard to accurately explain by text, as it's something you get by feel. I guess as long as your feeler gauge blade is the correct thickness, you should be alright.
What clearances were you aiming for, 0.15mm intake and 0.30mm exhaust +/- 0.07mm is what I've found for the TU3 and TU5 engines.
You never really want to nip the feeler gauge in place.
Also ignore the 0.15/0.30 readings - I've checked again and they're for the TUD diesel engine, not the TU petrol engine which you are correct is 0.20mm intake / 0.40mm exhaust +/- 0.05mm
Did it again, took extra care and followed the suggested method above. Still very tappy.
http://imgur.com/a/pDlXzMB
Might just be how it is gonna be? Convinced it is louder than it was before. Getting bored of fiddling tbh. I have got bodged spacers in there now a bit shorter than standard as it leaked with longer ones but i dont think the baffle plate is hitting the rocker arms...
At least the fourth time took a lot less time than the first time
http://imgur.com/a/pDlXzMB
Might just be how it is gonna be? Convinced it is louder than it was before. Getting bored of fiddling tbh. I have got bodged spacers in there now a bit shorter than standard as it leaked with longer ones but i dont think the baffle plate is hitting the rocker arms...
At least the fourth time took a lot less time than the first time
Edited by Cascade360 on Friday 17th September 17:09
t. Close to throwing in the towel tbh.carinaman said:
Has it served it's purpose as a learning experience?
There are better things to be doing with your time than home mechanics?
Tbh I quite enjoy it when things go right but given i dont think i can trust it anymore and cant get it running right not so funThere are better things to be doing with your time than home mechanics?
Have learned a lot though
Got a friend who knows what he is doing to come round and check the valve clearances
Still got the paint job to finish which is good practice but im sure is going to look terrible
Might get rid after that and buy something else
You just need to come back to it after a bit of a break - at least this isn't your only mode of transport!
A top end gasket set and a few hours with a mechanically-minded mate would probably see it ticking along half decently, but I sympathise with the chucking in the towel feeling. I had the same kind of feeling when I exploded the diff on my 205 GTI - I bought a reconditioned gearbox, along with a new valeo clutch kit, borrowed a hoist to fit it as I was working on my back in a fairly tight back yard. Me and a mate struggled for a few hours to get the old box out, swapped the clutch, got the new box in and filled, as well as fitting a set of lowering springs then the next day took it out for its maiden fixed voyage.
Couldn't get 1st at all, so had to start it in 2nd (not the best way to bed in a new clutch!). I chucked in the towel with it and took it to a gearbox specialist, they took the box out and stripped it, finding that one of the synchros had been fitted backwards, so not only did I have a reconditioned "reconditioned" box, I also had a 300 quid bill I wasn't expecting. 2 or 3 months later, put my foot down accelerating up a hill to a bang and a complete loss of drive - except this time the centre of the clutch friction plate was torn out which was down to the gearbox company not refitting the lower bolt that holds the gearbox to the engine correctly.
It got fixed though, it just takes a bit of headspace (and in my case, another £300 bill!)
A top end gasket set and a few hours with a mechanically-minded mate would probably see it ticking along half decently, but I sympathise with the chucking in the towel feeling. I had the same kind of feeling when I exploded the diff on my 205 GTI - I bought a reconditioned gearbox, along with a new valeo clutch kit, borrowed a hoist to fit it as I was working on my back in a fairly tight back yard. Me and a mate struggled for a few hours to get the old box out, swapped the clutch, got the new box in and filled, as well as fitting a set of lowering springs then the next day took it out for its maiden fixed voyage.
Couldn't get 1st at all, so had to start it in 2nd (not the best way to bed in a new clutch!). I chucked in the towel with it and took it to a gearbox specialist, they took the box out and stripped it, finding that one of the synchros had been fitted backwards, so not only did I have a reconditioned "reconditioned" box, I also had a 300 quid bill I wasn't expecting. 2 or 3 months later, put my foot down accelerating up a hill to a bang and a complete loss of drive - except this time the centre of the clutch friction plate was torn out which was down to the gearbox company not refitting the lower bolt that holds the gearbox to the engine correctly.
It got fixed though, it just takes a bit of headspace (and in my case, another £300 bill!)
Mr Happy said:
You just need to come back to it after a bit of a break - at least this isn't your only mode of transport!
A top end gasket set and a few hours with a mechanically-minded mate would probably see it ticking along half decently, but I sympathise with the chucking in the towel feeling. I had the same kind of feeling when I exploded the diff on my 205 GTI - I bought a reconditioned gearbox, along with a new valeo clutch kit, borrowed a hoist to fit it as I was working on my back in a fairly tight back yard. Me and a mate struggled for a few hours to get the old box out, swapped the clutch, got the new box in and filled, as well as fitting a set of lowering springs then the next day took it out for its maiden fixed voyage.
Couldn't get 1st at all, so had to start it in 2nd (not the best way to bed in a new clutch!). I chucked in the towel with it and took it to a gearbox specialist, they took the box out and stripped it, finding that one of the synchros had been fitted backwards, so not only did I have a reconditioned "reconditioned" box, I also had a 300 quid bill I wasn't expecting. 2 or 3 months later, put my foot down accelerating up a hill to a bang and a complete loss of drive - except this time the centre of the clutch friction plate was torn out which was down to the gearbox company not refitting the lower bolt that holds the gearbox to the engine correctly.
It got fixed though, it just takes a bit of headspace (and in my case, another £300 bill!)
Sounds painful! Particularly if it was your only car. I can at least leave the 205 sitting in a huff for a few months!A top end gasket set and a few hours with a mechanically-minded mate would probably see it ticking along half decently, but I sympathise with the chucking in the towel feeling. I had the same kind of feeling when I exploded the diff on my 205 GTI - I bought a reconditioned gearbox, along with a new valeo clutch kit, borrowed a hoist to fit it as I was working on my back in a fairly tight back yard. Me and a mate struggled for a few hours to get the old box out, swapped the clutch, got the new box in and filled, as well as fitting a set of lowering springs then the next day took it out for its maiden fixed voyage.
Couldn't get 1st at all, so had to start it in 2nd (not the best way to bed in a new clutch!). I chucked in the towel with it and took it to a gearbox specialist, they took the box out and stripped it, finding that one of the synchros had been fitted backwards, so not only did I have a reconditioned "reconditioned" box, I also had a 300 quid bill I wasn't expecting. 2 or 3 months later, put my foot down accelerating up a hill to a bang and a complete loss of drive - except this time the centre of the clutch friction plate was torn out which was down to the gearbox company not refitting the lower bolt that holds the gearbox to the engine correctly.
It got fixed though, it just takes a bit of headspace (and in my case, another £300 bill!)
Annoying thing is with the potential valve damage a repair would involve proper expense and given the bodywork is average it is probably not worth the expenditure. Im probably about 2k in over the last year but this was never about making money so I wouldnt be too upset about it. Next time ill buy something super cheap so if i break it i care less! Or something that needs less done so i just fix things as they break...
It is the sunk cost fallacy...would probably rather get rid and spend money experiencing something else than chuck lots of cash at this.
Plus i can always take the tvr out for fun drives and use the rover for schlepping about so even when working it doesnt have a specific role!
Plus it is due an mot next month...
Cascade360 said:
Sounds painful! Particularly if it was your only car. I can at least leave the 205 sitting in a huff for a few months!
Annoying thing is with the potential valve damage a repair would involve proper expense and given the bodywork is average it is probably not worth the expenditure. Im probably about 2k in over the last year but this was never about making money so I wouldnt be too upset about it. Next time ill buy something super cheap so if i break it i care less! Or something that needs less done so i just fix things as they break...
It is the sunk cost fallacy...would probably rather get rid and spend money experiencing something else than chuck lots of cash at this.
Plus i can always take the tvr out for fun drives and use the rover for schlepping about so even when working it doesnt have a specific role!
Plus it is due an mot next month...
It wasn't the finest few months, but I still maintain that was the best car I ever owned, even if it was only on the road 50% of the time!Annoying thing is with the potential valve damage a repair would involve proper expense and given the bodywork is average it is probably not worth the expenditure. Im probably about 2k in over the last year but this was never about making money so I wouldnt be too upset about it. Next time ill buy something super cheap so if i break it i care less! Or something that needs less done so i just fix things as they break...
It is the sunk cost fallacy...would probably rather get rid and spend money experiencing something else than chuck lots of cash at this.
Plus i can always take the tvr out for fun drives and use the rover for schlepping about so even when working it doesnt have a specific role!
Plus it is due an mot next month...
See what comes of your tinkering time with your mate I guess! Worst case it can go on ebay and be out of your hair by the next weekend!
We re did the valve clearances and a few were a touch out. It is quieter now - tappy, but comparing against tu3 videos online not too tappy, and my friends view was it sounds fine and if there was any terminal screw damage it would be running much worse. So that is good. Drove about a bit today and it was driving okay again.
Did the painting today. Did not turn out good
The square on the tailgate looks worse...
Try to flat it back mask a bigger area off and try to blend better...?
Did the painting today. Did not turn out good
The square on the tailgate looks worse...
Try to flat it back mask a bigger area off and try to blend better...?
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