Peugeot 205 XR
Discussion
CarlosV8 said:
The flywheel is bolted to the crankshaft, so by locking the flywheel you're also locking the crankshaft.
When trying to rotate the engine on the cam pulley was the locking pin still in the flywheel? If so the crankshaft would never rotate, so you could have caused the pulley to slip a tooth. Whatever you do don't force the cam pulley around with the flywheel locked, you don't want valves hitting pistons. I would suggest getting the belt off and carefully realign the cam pulley before putting the belt back on. Also check the belt isn't damaged.
Sorry i mean that the flywheel locking pin isn't visible so it isnt easy to see if it lines up.When trying to rotate the engine on the cam pulley was the locking pin still in the flywheel? If so the crankshaft would never rotate, so you could have caused the pulley to slip a tooth. Whatever you do don't force the cam pulley around with the flywheel locked, you don't want valves hitting pistons. I would suggest getting the belt off and carefully realign the cam pulley before putting the belt back on. Also check the belt isn't damaged.
No the flywheel and cam pulley were unlocked. Problem was rotating it by the cam pulley seemed to loosen off the tension on the belt and concerned it jumped a tooth as it was loose on the teeth of the pulley
If I take the belt off and align the cam pulley how do I make sure the crank is in the right place? I could possibly tighten up turn by crankshaft till cam pulley locking pin lines up then see if I can insert bolt into flywheel?
PrinceRupert said:
Sorry i mean that the flywheel locking pin isn't visible so it isnt easy to see if it lines up.
No the flywheel and cam pulley were unlocked. Problem was rotating it by the cam pulley seemed to loosen off the tension on the belt and concerned it jumped a tooth as it was loose on the teeth of the pulley
If I take the belt off and align the cam pulley how do I make sure the crank is in the right place? I could possibly tighten up turn by crankshaft till cam pulley locking pin lines up then see if I can insert bolt into flywheel?
Ah ok, I see what you mean now. I do remember it being a PITA to find the hole in the flywheel!No the flywheel and cam pulley were unlocked. Problem was rotating it by the cam pulley seemed to loosen off the tension on the belt and concerned it jumped a tooth as it was loose on the teeth of the pulley
If I take the belt off and align the cam pulley how do I make sure the crank is in the right place? I could possibly tighten up turn by crankshaft till cam pulley locking pin lines up then see if I can insert bolt into flywheel?
If you think its only jumped one tooth then yes, you could try rotating the crank very carefully to see if it still aligns. Definitely remove the spark plugs first (so it will be easier to turn) and don't force it or you could end up with bent valves!
Some good news - I tensioned the belt, removed the spark plugs and VERY SLOWLY turned the engine by hand (by the crankshaft this time!). It turned easily and I got it back to the camshaft locking position with no metal on metal contact. So I locked the camshaft and the flywheel and took the belt and tensioner off.
Two bits of bad news:
- It seems the crankshaft is not actually locked - can move it a little both directions with the belt off. So need to find the timing again.
- The belt was fouled with oil. The one I took off wasn't, so wonder if it got touched by oil when refitting (it is quite oily down there). I'm going to have to clean the engine up and try and find the source of the oil leak. Is it safe to liberally apply Gunk degreaser and/or brake cleaner, and then lightly hose it down?
From reading online, it seems that oil leaking from the head gasket on this side of the engine is very common on these engines. I really think a head gasket change may be beyond my skill set. If it is that, do you think cleaning it up and keeping an eye on oil levels would be okay for now? I don't think there was oil in the coolant, or coolant in the oil - will post up a pic of the drained coolant momentarily (it is a bit grotty but i think that will be from sitting in the car ten years rather than mixed with oil).
Two bits of bad news:
- It seems the crankshaft is not actually locked - can move it a little both directions with the belt off. So need to find the timing again.
- The belt was fouled with oil. The one I took off wasn't, so wonder if it got touched by oil when refitting (it is quite oily down there). I'm going to have to clean the engine up and try and find the source of the oil leak. Is it safe to liberally apply Gunk degreaser and/or brake cleaner, and then lightly hose it down?
From reading online, it seems that oil leaking from the head gasket on this side of the engine is very common on these engines. I really think a head gasket change may be beyond my skill set. If it is that, do you think cleaning it up and keeping an eye on oil levels would be okay for now? I don't think there was oil in the coolant, or coolant in the oil - will post up a pic of the drained coolant momentarily (it is a bit grotty but i think that will be from sitting in the car ten years rather than mixed with oil).
Is the flywheel locked with a snug fitting pin?
Was the belt contaminated with fresh oil or old oil? I know that area can get mucky with oil from a combination of weeps - not necessarily the head gasket, it could be from the rocker cover, cam oil seal, crank oil seal or sump. Because of the moving belts a few drops of oil can make a right mess!
Definitely worth a clean up whilst you're there, which will make any leak easier to track later on. I would think any engine degreaser would be ok, just go easy with using water as you don't want it getting in the electrics or in the engine!
Coolant doesn't look too bad if its been in there that long. A mayo type substance would indicate oil and coolant mixing. Have you renewed the water pump whilst the cambelt is off? Worth doing for peace of mind, especially after sitting for so long.
Was the belt contaminated with fresh oil or old oil? I know that area can get mucky with oil from a combination of weeps - not necessarily the head gasket, it could be from the rocker cover, cam oil seal, crank oil seal or sump. Because of the moving belts a few drops of oil can make a right mess!
Definitely worth a clean up whilst you're there, which will make any leak easier to track later on. I would think any engine degreaser would be ok, just go easy with using water as you don't want it getting in the electrics or in the engine!
Coolant doesn't look too bad if its been in there that long. A mayo type substance would indicate oil and coolant mixing. Have you renewed the water pump whilst the cambelt is off? Worth doing for peace of mind, especially after sitting for so long.
CarlosV8 said:
Is the flywheel locked with a snug fitting pin?
Was the belt contaminated with fresh oil or old oil? I know that area can get mucky with oil from a combination of weeps - not necessarily the head gasket, it could be from the rocker cover, cam oil seal, crank oil seal or sump. Because of the moving belts a few drops of oil can make a right mess!
Definitely worth a clean up whilst you're there, which will make any leak easier to track later on. I would think any engine degreaser would be ok, just go easy with using water as you don't want it getting in the electrics or in the engine!
Coolant doesn't look too bad if its been in there that long. A mayo type substance would indicate oil and coolant mixing. Have you renewed the water pump whilst the cambelt is off? Worth doing for peace of mind, especially after sitting for so long.
The flywheel is not presently locked, as the hole doesn't line up - think it got knocked out of time when I turned the engine by the camshaft and the belt jumped a few teeth. My plan is to get my better half to hold a 6mm drill bit through the hole with gentle pressure whilst I rock the crankshaft gently forward and back until it slots in. The camshaft is locked. Was the belt contaminated with fresh oil or old oil? I know that area can get mucky with oil from a combination of weeps - not necessarily the head gasket, it could be from the rocker cover, cam oil seal, crank oil seal or sump. Because of the moving belts a few drops of oil can make a right mess!
Definitely worth a clean up whilst you're there, which will make any leak easier to track later on. I would think any engine degreaser would be ok, just go easy with using water as you don't want it getting in the electrics or in the engine!
Coolant doesn't look too bad if its been in there that long. A mayo type substance would indicate oil and coolant mixing. Have you renewed the water pump whilst the cambelt is off? Worth doing for peace of mind, especially after sitting for so long.
The belt was contaminated with old oil, but during fitting I believe, as the old one was not contaminated when it came off. It is pretty oily on that side of the engine, there is a leak from somewhere. I am hoping it is not the headgasket - I know it is common on that side of the engine, but the engine is oily on the bottom on the other side as well, so possibly the rocker cover gasket. I understand the rocker cover gasket is a cheap and easy fix, so gonna clean up and try to find the leak. I have 10l of Gunk to apply liberally.
The water pump has been renewed, yes. There doesn't seem to be any evidence of mixing of coolant/oil, no mayo under the filler cap etc.
So the plan is to get it cleaned up, find the timing, fit the timing belt, fit the aux belt, pop the spark plugs back in, change the oil and filter and hopefully Bob's your auntie. Refill it with coolant, cross my fingers and turn the key...
The remaining parts - drive shafts, engine mounts, discs, pads - won't be going on until I know the engine is running smoothly!
Edited by PrinceRupert on Tuesday 8th December 11:01
So this morning I decided to remove the radiator to give better access to the hole to lock the flywheel. The radiator has seen better days:
So will need to order a replacement before I refit.
I have a bunch of random cables with connectors that are not connected to anything. Who knows what they are all for ...
Who rates my chances of getting it back together
Can anyone tell me what the name of the part is that covers the exhaust manifold and has the pipe running up to the air intake? It is looking pretty sorry for itself and I would like to replace it. EDIT: It is the exhaust manifold hot air shroud...but where to find one.
So will need to order a replacement before I refit.
I have a bunch of random cables with connectors that are not connected to anything. Who knows what they are all for ...
Who rates my chances of getting it back together
Can anyone tell me what the name of the part is that covers the exhaust manifold and has the pipe running up to the air intake? It is looking pretty sorry for itself and I would like to replace it. EDIT: It is the exhaust manifold hot air shroud...but where to find one.
Edited by PrinceRupert on Tuesday 8th December 15:11
PrinceRupert said:
So this morning I decided to remove the radiator to give better access to the hole to lock the flywheel. The radiator has seen better days:
So will need to order a replacement before I refit.
I have a bunch of random cables with connectors that are not connected to anything. Who knows what they are all for ...
Who rates my chances of getting it back together
Can anyone tell me what the name of the part is that covers the exhaust manifold and has the pipe running up to the air intake? It is looking pretty sorry for itself and I would like to replace it. EDIT: It is the exhaust manifold hot air shroud...but where to find one.
Could you make one? Or if you're like myself and have the fabrication skills of a tadpole, have one made? So will need to order a replacement before I refit.
I have a bunch of random cables with connectors that are not connected to anything. Who knows what they are all for ...
Who rates my chances of getting it back together
Can anyone tell me what the name of the part is that covers the exhaust manifold and has the pipe running up to the air intake? It is looking pretty sorry for itself and I would like to replace it. EDIT: It is the exhaust manifold hot air shroud...but where to find one.
Edited by PrinceRupert on Tuesday 8th December 15:11
So, great news - my engine is back in time! It turns out with the radiator out I could turn the crankshaft whilst pushing the bolt through the flywheel hole. The bolt is now snugly through the flywheel and the crank is locked. Woohoo!
Spent a bit of time degreasing with Gunk and water but suspect I might need something stronger.
I suspect fabricating anything is beyond my skill set The manifold itself is looking pretty rusty and I did think "hey maybe I'll replace it whilst I am in here" but if I take that approach I'll replace everything and I am not sure that's a sensible way of spending my money ...
Spent a bit of time degreasing with Gunk and water but suspect I might need something stronger.
I suspect fabricating anything is beyond my skill set
The manifold itself is looking pretty rusty and I did think "hey maybe I'll replace it whilst I am in here" but if I take that approach I'll replace everything and I am not sure that's a sensible way of spending my money ...Edited by PrinceRupert on Tuesday 8th December 18:26
[quote=PrinceRupert]The manifold itself is looking pretty rusty and I did think "hey maybe I'll replace it whilst I am in here"
It's likely to be a cast iron manifold so as long as its not cracked, a rusted one will work just as good as a new non rusty one - your choice of course but you also risk snapped studs in your cylinder head if you decide to replace it because they can be tough to get out in one piece.
It's likely to be a cast iron manifold so as long as its not cracked, a rusted one will work just as good as a new non rusty one - your choice of course but you also risk snapped studs in your cylinder head if you decide to replace it because they can be tough to get out in one piece.
ReverendCounter]rinceRupert said:
The manifold itself is looking pretty rusty and I did think "hey maybe I'll replace it whilst I am in here"
It's likely to be a cast iron manifold so as long as its not cracked, a rusted one will work just as good as a new non rusty one - your choice of course but you also risk snapped studs in your cylinder head if you decide to replace it because they can be tough to get out in one piece.
Noted - will be getting left well alone!It's likely to be a cast iron manifold so as long as its not cracked, a rusted one will work just as good as a new non rusty one - your choice of course but you also risk snapped studs in your cylinder head if you decide to replace it because they can be tough to get out in one piece.
Oil change today, took the grand total of about ten minutes to do, very easy - other than I couldn't find the bloody sump plug, spent twenty minutes looking for it ... it was in my bucket of old engine oil. Doh.
I also spent a bit of time attacking the engine with Gunk degreaser and powerwashing the bottom of the engine (staying as far away from any electrics as i could!). Looking a bit shinier.
Still not entirely clear where the engine coolant drain plug is ....
I also spent a bit of time attacking the engine with Gunk degreaser and powerwashing the bottom of the engine (staying as far away from any electrics as i could!). Looking a bit shinier.
Still not entirely clear where the engine coolant drain plug is ....
I thought today was going so well. Gave everything a good clean up, fitted belt, tensioned, turned it over a few times, still tight. Superb.
Reattaching crank pulley...
curse word! snapped bolt. Fml.
Plus the belt now doesn't seem to be tense. Wtf?!
Not sure what to do now...no idea why I can't seem to get the belt to stay tense, plus not particularly keen to try and drill that bolt out myself...
EDIT: A bit of googling suggests it can be normal for a timing belt to sit a bit loose when not turning ... is this right?
Reattaching crank pulley...
curse word! snapped bolt. Fml.
Plus the belt now doesn't seem to be tense. Wtf?!
Not sure what to do now...no idea why I can't seem to get the belt to stay tense, plus not particularly keen to try and drill that bolt out myself...
EDIT: A bit of googling suggests it can be normal for a timing belt to sit a bit loose when not turning ... is this right?
Edited by PrinceRupert on Sunday 13th December 15:18
Success!
Will now need to acquire some new bolts however. I can get three bolts for about 12 quid including delivery, or a whole new pulley for around 25 quid. Hmm.
On the belt itself, I am a bit stumped. As I said, the belt was tight, then it was loose between cam and crank. If I turn the crank a tiny bit, it tightens right up, and turns. See video of tension here: https://i.imgur.com/X8P5Lmy.mp4
The problem is this happens when I am turning it. Although I can turn it all the way round without losing time - it is sitting with the locking bolts in now, perfectly in time, having been turned a couple of times.
I assume this is not normal, but no idea how to sort it. There isn't slack to take out via the tensioner. It is almost as if the belt has too many teeth, but as far as I can see it has the right number. Stupidly I binned the old belt so cannot count and check.
Will now need to acquire some new bolts however. I can get three bolts for about 12 quid including delivery, or a whole new pulley for around 25 quid. Hmm.
On the belt itself, I am a bit stumped. As I said, the belt was tight, then it was loose between cam and crank. If I turn the crank a tiny bit, it tightens right up, and turns. See video of tension here: https://i.imgur.com/X8P5Lmy.mp4
The problem is this happens when I am turning it. Although I can turn it all the way round without losing time - it is sitting with the locking bolts in now, perfectly in time, having been turned a couple of times.
I assume this is not normal, but no idea how to sort it. There isn't slack to take out via the tensioner. It is almost as if the belt has too many teeth, but as far as I can see it has the right number. Stupidly I binned the old belt so cannot count and check.
ReverendCounter said:
If its definitely seated on the bottom pulley properly, then belt is the wrong pitch (distance between the centre point of two adjacent teeth, in comparison to the pitch of the pulley profile).
I think its definitely the wrong pitch without seeing the bottom pulley.
That last photo definitely makes it look you've got the wrong belt. I'd double-check the part numbers and dimensions.I think its definitely the wrong pitch without seeing the bottom pulley.
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