No.39 - 1995 BMW E34 M5 UK Limited Edition #39/50
Discussion
G-P said:
Great work James, in every project you hit the point of why did I start this but it’s always worth it when you see it out!
Thanks! Yeah I must say one of the worst parts I remember was when I was drilling out some of the corroded fluid line bracket screws on a cold day in on and off rain, several broken drill bits, lying on my back getting cold and soaked. I remember looking at the corroded old parts that sit above the subframe and thinking christ what have I started...! Rather than think of it as one big challenge I just broke it down and gradually worked through loads of little challenges. Doesn't put me off doing it again though!RS Grant said:
Enjoying all the E34 content here, saw a late E34 M5 a year or so ago, just pedalling round an industrial estate normally and it still looked amazing. I've fully missed the boat on these due to price, but I'm happy to live vicariously through threads like this. 
Hopefully I'll keep you entertained with updates!Gad-Westy said:
Jonny-Jimbo said:
I do love an E34, 'the thinking mans E30'. Honestly I think they handle better than the E30, and with a decent engine are much, much faster.
Of course it's more comfortable too for long continental runs. I did a 'under-shell' rebuild on my 540i/6 a few years back after it had been laid up by the previous owner for 10 years or so. Two days after finishing the build me and a mate drove it to Austria, non-stop in 26 hours. Pretty good on fuel too, 39.9mpg at 85mph+.
Done a few track day etc too, plus a few visits to the ring, well worth it!
I'd like an M5, but as has been said, the values now are going mental, and I don't think I could justify an M5 and a 540...
That’s a lovely car. Great colour. Of course it's more comfortable too for long continental runs. I did a 'under-shell' rebuild on my 540i/6 a few years back after it had been laid up by the previous owner for 10 years or so. Two days after finishing the build me and a mate drove it to Austria, non-stop in 26 hours. Pretty good on fuel too, 39.9mpg at 85mph+.
Done a few track day etc too, plus a few visits to the ring, well worth it!
I'd like an M5, but as has been said, the values now are going mental, and I don't think I could justify an M5 and a 540...
But 40mpg at 85mph+.... is that a typo?!
I wouldn’t get near that even in 6 cylinder BMW’s. My v8 e39 would have been mid 20’s at best at that sort of pace!
There is something about the E34. To me it is an absolute design high point for BMW. The proportions are perfect. I love the e30 but it has a slight look of flimsiness about it compared to the e34. The e34 loses none of the classic detail but looks taught and solid.
That sounds like an awesome trip, I'd love to do something like that one day, maybe head down to the Italian lakes. I must say I thought that economy figure was a typo as well, impressive! I used to average about 23mpg in the M5 which I thought was poor until I bought an XJ40 4.0 and barely scraped 19mpg...!
Completely agree also on the styling, the E30 is a little dainty and delicate looking for my taste, still a great looking car but the E34 and even more so the E32 have a certain 'substantialness' about them.
Jonny-Jimbo said:
Aye, it's Orient Blue with bison leather interior.
We did genuinely get that, at least on the in-car computer. When we left home it was saying 12MPG, and it gradually ticket up as we cruised. It wouldn't break the 39.9 though. Once in Austria and running the mountain roads it soon dropped again!
Agreed, E34s are very good value overall when you consider how much an E30 M3 costs, an E34 M5 is still pence.
Orient is great, I had an E46 in that. Such a lovely deep colour, very classy.We did genuinely get that, at least on the in-car computer. When we left home it was saying 12MPG, and it gradually ticket up as we cruised. It wouldn't break the 39.9 though. Once in Austria and running the mountain roads it soon dropped again!
Agreed, E34s are very good value overall when you consider how much an E30 M3 costs, an E34 M5 is still pence.
True, the E30 M3 to me seems poor value comparatively, but then to be fair if I could afford it I would be straight down to Classic Heroes to buy that low mileage 850csi, I think it was last advertised at £130,000. So much more car than an E30 M3, but very different and for a different kind of driver. The 850csi to me is the ultimate BMW, I think the only one I could consider changing my M5 for.
Aluminati said:
James Hay said:
Aluminati said:
Looks great, I much prefer them with a boot spoiler, hoping to fit one to mine at some point.
I believe I know of this car, a father & son owned/still own it?
Saw a mint one a couple of years ago up for 35k !
I suppose if there was a low mileage one say under 75,000 miles with great paperwork then yeah £35,000 I don't think would be out of the question!
Jonny-Jimbo said:
Aye, the 8-Series is quite something. I found an old issue of Practical Classics magazine whilst tidying some boxes of junk from my parents house a few months back, with an advert in for an 850, converted to manual. 10 months MOT AND Tax, and the advert said 'Due to not selling quickly price is reduced from £2500 to £1750...
I'd guess that the magazine was between 15 and 18 years old.
I do love a tidy E31 but I'd heard that some repair costs can be astronomical, although so can elements of an E34 M5...!I'd guess that the magazine was between 15 and 18 years old.
Ah the good old days when you either got a bit of tax with the car, or if not use that as a negotiation factor.
Under £2,000 wow, I suppose that must have been the time at which they were at their lowest. Bargains.
Jonny-Jimbo said:
Yes indeed, it would have been when they were rock bottom and 'just old cars' and not considered classics. Most of the cars in the mag were cheap by today's standards, Escorts, 911s etc. Thing is some things like XJ40s etc have stayed about the same!
The costs etc dont put me off having one, but they certainly mean I cant go and just buy one with the money down the back of the sofa!
Nobody at the time had any idea that this era of cars was viewed by a lot as the pinnacle. Funny you mention XJ40s...The costs etc dont put me off having one, but they certainly mean I cant go and just buy one with the money down the back of the sofa!
When I put the M5 into storage for a few months I bought this off a friend as I needed a 'sensible winter daily' so obviously I thought this would be absolutely ideal considering I was doing upwards of 18,000 miles per year at barely 19mpg... A beautiful car though, and compared to a lot I've since seen this one was in extremely good condition. To be honest I should have held onto it as it meant more to me than the amount of money I sold it for, but it wouldn't have had a purpose.
Edited by James Hay on Thursday 17th December 21:00
Last week I went to move No.39 out the garage and the clutch pedal wouldn't spring back and sat on the floor. I must say I should've investigated earlier as occasionally it would need an extra pump or two when manoeuvring as pressure would gradually slip away, and it was getting worse. There's always been enough fluid in the reservoir so I thought it unlikely air had been drawn through but a nice little puddle under the car confirmed my suspicions of a leak.
Fortunately the master cylinder hasn't leaked into the cabin which makes me 90% sure the slave cylinder has burst it's seals. I've ordered a rebuilt kit from AutoDoc but will inspect all parts of the clutch hydraulics when I refurb the slave. The only other cause could be corroded metal line or split flexihose which I doubt, but we'll see!
Update to follow once the weather gets to a reasonable temperature in Cambridge!
Fortunately the master cylinder hasn't leaked into the cabin which makes me 90% sure the slave cylinder has burst it's seals. I've ordered a rebuilt kit from AutoDoc but will inspect all parts of the clutch hydraulics when I refurb the slave. The only other cause could be corroded metal line or split flexihose which I doubt, but we'll see!
Update to follow once the weather gets to a reasonable temperature in Cambridge!
e28525e said:
As if you needed an excuse to rip the front end of the car off and replace everything with shiny stuff..
I reckon you should fix the clutch slave and do some driving!
I reckon you should fix the clutch slave and do some driving!
Thing is...I'm pretty sure it needs front springs for the MOT, if I'm doing springs it would be dumb not to do dampers, and to do the lower arms the dampers need to come off the little carrier plate thing. So, if I'm doing all that I might as well strip off and refurb the ensure front axle/steering/subframe
Leins said:
Fabulous car James, love these LEs. Keep the updates coming please
I had a 5-speed 3.8 for a number of years, and still miss taking that car into work every Friday when the traffic was a bit lighter. Still my favourite BMW engine I think, but that car always seemed to need attention. Funnily enough the last fault I had fixed on it was the clutch pedal on the floor due to the slave too
Thanks, will do!I had a 5-speed 3.8 for a number of years, and still miss taking that car into work every Friday when the traffic was a bit lighter. Still my favourite BMW engine I think, but that car always seemed to need attention. Funnily enough the last fault I had fixed on it was the clutch pedal on the floor due to the slave too
I can't wait to get it back on the road, hoping to be able to enjoy it this summer. Yes they're of that age now aren't they where there's always something, I'm hoping that with all the work I'm doing it will be trouble free but I'm yet to have the biggest thing looked over...that engine. It's got 18 service stamps throughout it's 26 years and 127,000 miles so it seems to have been well cared for and felt strong when I was using it as my daily.
James Hay said:
Last week I went to move No.39 out the garage and the clutch pedal wouldn't spring back and sat on the floor. I must say I should've investigated earlier as occasionally it would need an extra pump or two when manoeuvring as pressure would gradually slip away, and it was getting worse. There's always been enough fluid in the reservoir so I thought it unlikely air had been drawn through but a nice little puddle under the car confirmed my suspicions of a leak.
Fortunately the master cylinder hasn't leaked into the cabin which makes me 90% sure the slave cylinder has burst it's seals. I've ordered a rebuilt kit from AutoDoc but will inspect all parts of the clutch hydraulics when I refurb the slave. The only other cause could be corroded metal line or split flexihose which I doubt, but we'll see!
Update to follow once the weather gets to a reasonable temperature in Cambridge!
Good news, the clutch slave reseal kit finally arrived this afternoon. I'll be getting on with this job as soon as possible although typically it's forecast to rain most of this week! Fortunately the master cylinder hasn't leaked into the cabin which makes me 90% sure the slave cylinder has burst it's seals. I've ordered a rebuilt kit from AutoDoc but will inspect all parts of the clutch hydraulics when I refurb the slave. The only other cause could be corroded metal line or split flexihose which I doubt, but we'll see!
Update to follow once the weather gets to a reasonable temperature in Cambridge!
...how much I envy people with proper workshops.AutoDoc shows these as the correct parts linked to my VIN although I've not done this job before so I can't be 100% sure until I've pulled the old one apart;
Update to follow!
James Hay said:
Good news, the clutch slave reseal kit finally arrived this afternoon. I'll be getting on with this job as soon as possible although typically it's forecast to rain most of this week! ...how much I envy people with proper workshops.
AutoDoc shows these as the correct parts linked to my VIN although I've not done this job before so I can't be 100% sure until I've pulled the old one apart;
Update to follow!
After removing the slave cylinder it was clear to see that my suspicions were confirmed with a leak... ...how much I envy people with proper workshops.AutoDoc shows these as the correct parts linked to my VIN although I've not done this job before so I can't be 100% sure until I've pulled the old one apart;
Update to follow!
The dust boot seemed to have become rather deformed over time, I assume by the rod operating at an angle and therefore distorting the 'memory' of the rubber which then lead to it not sealing on the shaft anymore. I believe this let clutch dust and other foreign bodies through to the outer side of the piston. The colour of the clutch fluid also backed up my assumption of a lack of fluid changes (shame on me for not doing a flush in my nearly five years of ownership
) which encouraged a build up of contaminants and general crap within the fluid which then all gathered at the lowest point in the system...the slave cylinder!In order to remove the piston I employed the use of a bicycle pump which worked just as well as when I refurbished the rear callipers. Proper job! Removal of the piston revealed the horror within, a worrying amount of sludge and grit, nasty, and to be honest I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did.
It's also clear to see the flat spot that had been worn into the seal by all the crap, and the difference in profile between the new and old seals.
After removing all the crap and clearing the feed line I carefully used some 1200 grit wet and dry to smooth the inside of the bore as much as possible being careful to rub 'across' the movement of the piston as opposed to along it. I then used a soft wire brush attachment on my dremel to clean up the outside and the feed line, then went over the whole thing with some good old satin black Hammerite.
If I can put up with the minus temperatures this week I might be able to get it back on the car!
Edited by James Hay on Monday 8th February 22:32
Another_James said:
Excellent work on a very deserving car!
Such an awesome colour Orinoco metallic. Going to use this as a shameless excuse for a pic of my old E36 in the same colour.
Very cool that looks awesome!Such an awesome colour Orinoco metallic. Going to use this as a shameless excuse for a pic of my old E36 in the same colour.
I do love the E36, I had a couple of 328i Sport Coupes and at the time I bought the M5 there was one of the 50 E36 M3 GT2s available but I thought no I've already experienced an E36 (though of course not an M model), but I have wondered several times if I should have gone for it. I must say I do prefer the E36 interior and driving position.
Another_James said:
Thanks!
I stumbled across an Imola individual at a 2nd hand car dealer in Peterborough around 2009. S reg with a number plate ending EBC. Up for £7k and he offered me £2k for my 328i sport. Turned it down as I thought mine was worth more than that! Seen that car trade hands for many times that since!
Finally got the M3 pictured in 2013 and absolutely loved it. Unfortunately it span a rod bearing for the 2nd time despite the engine having a very expensive full rebuild at BMW specialist CPC 2 years and 7k miles previous. Was looking to buy a house at the time and couldn’t really justify the expense of putting it right so sold it to a chap on the E36 coupe forum who put an S54 in it. Had a E46 M3 a couple of years later but I much preferred the E36 despite it being an objectively better car.
Never driven any E34’s of any flavour and can’t remember the last time I even saw one let alone an M5. Very special car you have there. That big straight six must sound incredible.
Wow £7,000 is well priced but then it was at the bottom of the depreciation curve around then. I must say my first 328i Sport I got in 2012 for an absolutely steal at £2,250 with just 68,000 miles the clock, Montreal Blue with cream leather and various options including Cruise Control it was a really lovely car. That was from a private seller however who I don't think really knew quite how desirable it was, one of those 'once in a lifetime' finds. That condition of car would be worth well over £5,000 by now or potentially even more considering the silly money people are asking for high milage tatty automatics.I stumbled across an Imola individual at a 2nd hand car dealer in Peterborough around 2009. S reg with a number plate ending EBC. Up for £7k and he offered me £2k for my 328i sport. Turned it down as I thought mine was worth more than that! Seen that car trade hands for many times that since!
Finally got the M3 pictured in 2013 and absolutely loved it. Unfortunately it span a rod bearing for the 2nd time despite the engine having a very expensive full rebuild at BMW specialist CPC 2 years and 7k miles previous. Was looking to buy a house at the time and couldn’t really justify the expense of putting it right so sold it to a chap on the E36 coupe forum who put an S54 in it. Had a E46 M3 a couple of years later but I much preferred the E36 despite it being an objectively better car.
Never driven any E34’s of any flavour and can’t remember the last time I even saw one let alone an M5. Very special car you have there. That big straight six must sound incredible.
Oh dear that is very bad luck having it happen twice...!
I'm familiar with CPC, they did a lot of work on my M5 back in 2012 prior to my ownership. Do you know what the cause of the bearing failure was? One of the jobs I want to get done on mine is the bearings, as well as timing chain and guides/tensioner. Coincidentally I'm also hoping to buy a house soon so progress on refurbishing my front axle along with all the other work I want to do is very far from the top of the list.Yes it's not too bad...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuiMPIjSND0
Another_James said:
The first time it spun no2 rod bearing due to stretched rod bolts which is a fairly common failure on S50’s at higher mileages. This happened to the previous owner and he had CPC do a full rebuild for about £4.5k if memory serves. He then did around 4K miles over 18 months in it before selling.
I then did around 3k miles in it before it again spun a rod bearing on no2 cylinder. I don’t know for certain the exact cause but the other bearings were in good shape and the ARP rod bolts hadn’t stretched. As a part of the rebuild it had the crank reground and the effected rod replaced. I suspect the bearing clearance was incorrect which caused the bearing to wear out but I can’t know for sure. I know it was never over revved or run low on oil in my ownership but the previous owner possibly could have although it seems unlikely considering the money he’d put into the car and the meticulous records he kept.
CPC didn’t want to know as it’d had been 2yrs and the car had changed hands. I don’t know if the quality of the rebuild was at fault but I will say that they had billed for parts such as the water pump and a whole bunch of breather hoses that upon inspection had clearly never been replaced.
From what you've said I was thinking exactly the same in that the crank may have been ground too much for a standard bearing, but like you say, not possible to be sure.I then did around 3k miles in it before it again spun a rod bearing on no2 cylinder. I don’t know for certain the exact cause but the other bearings were in good shape and the ARP rod bolts hadn’t stretched. As a part of the rebuild it had the crank reground and the effected rod replaced. I suspect the bearing clearance was incorrect which caused the bearing to wear out but I can’t know for sure. I know it was never over revved or run low on oil in my ownership but the previous owner possibly could have although it seems unlikely considering the money he’d put into the car and the meticulous records he kept.
CPC didn’t want to know as it’d had been 2yrs and the car had changed hands. I don’t know if the quality of the rebuild was at fault but I will say that they had billed for parts such as the water pump and a whole bunch of breather hoses that upon inspection had clearly never been replaced.
I'm quite surprised at the water pump/hoses, they generally have a great reputation.
Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff