Fiesta ST stage 3 build
Discussion
Scobblelotcher said:
Thanks, twin scroll turbos in the right application can spool faster and create more power at lower and high rev ranges.
The thread you shared makes for interesting reading, twin scroll seems to work well with the Fiesta motor.
Ultimately peak power doesn’t matter as much if you fit a large turbo that doesn’t say get going until high in the rev range and leaves the car flat until high revs. When people talk about high power numbers with small/medium sized engines I always wonder how laggy they are and how usable the engine is running a big turbo.
Certainly is interesting as I hadn't really considered twin scroll before for the Fiesta. The S280 is known to be a bit 'laggy' compared to the likes of the X47R but in turn when the s280 kicks in apparently it pulls a lot harder than the x47r, so I guess it's down to preference really, me personally, I quite like a quick spool rather than a big kick at the end of the revs The thread you shared makes for interesting reading, twin scroll seems to work well with the Fiesta motor.
Ultimately peak power doesn’t matter as much if you fit a large turbo that doesn’t say get going until high in the rev range and leaves the car flat until high revs. When people talk about high power numbers with small/medium sized engines I always wonder how laggy they are and how usable the engine is running a big turbo.
Dylanaledhall said:
Scobblelotcher said:
Thanks, twin scroll turbos in the right application can spool faster and create more power at lower and high rev ranges.
The thread you shared makes for interesting reading, twin scroll seems to work well with the Fiesta motor.
Ultimately peak power doesn’t matter as much if you fit a large turbo that doesn’t say get going until high in the rev range and leaves the car flat until high revs. When people talk about high power numbers with small/medium sized engines I always wonder how laggy they are and how usable the engine is running a big turbo.
Certainly is interesting as I hadn't really considered twin scroll before for the Fiesta. The S280 is known to be a bit 'laggy' compared to the likes of the X47R but in turn when the s280 kicks in apparently it pulls a lot harder than the x47r, so I guess it's down to preference really, me personally, I quite like a quick spool rather than a big kick at the end of the revs The thread you shared makes for interesting reading, twin scroll seems to work well with the Fiesta motor.
Ultimately peak power doesn’t matter as much if you fit a large turbo that doesn’t say get going until high in the rev range and leaves the car flat until high revs. When people talk about high power numbers with small/medium sized engines I always wonder how laggy they are and how usable the engine is running a big turbo.
The car which you previously said you were considering, M135/40i’s main trick is a larger engine with a smaller (twin scroll) turbo that delivers peak torque at 1300rpm which gives it that muscular power delivery and gives it a very wide power band. In comparison I have a friend with a 512bhp Impreza (2.0) that runs a large turbo and it’s as flat as a pancake below 4.5k revs when suddenly it delivers a lot of power to its redline (approx 6.5k) which just means for the road it just isn’t as usable for the road.
Scobblelotcher said:
I always think it depends on application, if you want a fast road car you want a wide power band with a decent proportion of power/torque arriving early(ish) in the rev range whereas if it’s a track car then it may not be so much of an issue.
The car which you previously said you were considering, M135/40i’s main trick is a larger engine with a smaller (twin scroll) turbo that delivers peak torque at 1300rpm which gives it that muscular power delivery and gives it a very wide power band. In comparison I have a friend with a 512bhp Impreza (2.0) that runs a large turbo and it’s as flat as a pancake below 4.5k revs when suddenly it delivers a lot of power to its redline (approx 6.5k) which just means for the road it just isn’t as usable for the road.
Yeah that's the thing with me, I'm not the type of person that has a fun car and a daily car, I want a car I can use every day and still provide some thrill. A big part of that for me is usable and efficient power. My ST at the moment at stage 2 is quick enough but I'm just wanting a bit more power. Like I've said, I think 400bhp in this application would be a bit overkill and drivability would probably go out the window The car which you previously said you were considering, M135/40i’s main trick is a larger engine with a smaller (twin scroll) turbo that delivers peak torque at 1300rpm which gives it that muscular power delivery and gives it a very wide power band. In comparison I have a friend with a 512bhp Impreza (2.0) that runs a large turbo and it’s as flat as a pancake below 4.5k revs when suddenly it delivers a lot of power to its redline (approx 6.5k) which just means for the road it just isn’t as usable for the road.
WCZ said:
nice!
do you have any recomendations of where to find these spare parts? I've been looking but it seems people seem to sell their cars modified and dont bother paying to have the original turbo put back on etc as it's a fair bit of work
do you have any recomendations of where to find these spare parts? I've been looking but it seems people seem to sell their cars modified and dont bother paying to have the original turbo put back on etc as it's a fair bit of work
This just popped up on marketplace, apparently comes with a couple of boost hoses and a decat pipe. Really good price to be honest, just not too sure if I personally am ready to stick a second hand turbo onto the car. I've got nothing against second hand parts, it's just the second hand stuff obviously won't be as reliable and who knows what kind of life this turbo has had previously
Dylanaledhall said:
Scobblelotcher said:
I always think it depends on application, if you want a fast road car you want a wide power band with a decent proportion of power/torque arriving early(ish) in the rev range whereas if it’s a track car then it may not be so much of an issue.
The car which you previously said you were considering, M135/40i’s main trick is a larger engine with a smaller (twin scroll) turbo that delivers peak torque at 1300rpm which gives it that muscular power delivery and gives it a very wide power band. In comparison I have a friend with a 512bhp Impreza (2.0) that runs a large turbo and it’s as flat as a pancake below 4.5k revs when suddenly it delivers a lot of power to its redline (approx 6.5k) which just means for the road it just isn’t as usable for the road.
Yeah that's the thing with me, I'm not the type of person that has a fun car and a daily car, I want a car I can use every day and still provide some thrill. A big part of that for me is usable and efficient power. My ST at the moment at stage 2 is quick enough but I'm just wanting a bit more power. Like I've said, I think 400bhp in this application would be a bit overkill and drivability would probably go out the window The car which you previously said you were considering, M135/40i’s main trick is a larger engine with a smaller (twin scroll) turbo that delivers peak torque at 1300rpm which gives it that muscular power delivery and gives it a very wide power band. In comparison I have a friend with a 512bhp Impreza (2.0) that runs a large turbo and it’s as flat as a pancake below 4.5k revs when suddenly it delivers a lot of power to its redline (approx 6.5k) which just means for the road it just isn’t as usable for the road.
Its not all win/win, Ford knew what they were dong, and the Stage 2 stuff adds to that, they are generally very driveable. The hybrids/bigger turbos you do feel like you lose something in terms of the low down torque in favour of charging round to 7500 rpm, there are more scenarios where a Stage 2 car is suitable than one with a bigger turbo, but when you do get to deploy it, its pretty vivid.
I went to Collins as its a safe package, CP4 felt like a bit of a cop out, can go to CP5, or there are other tuners who do bigger peak numbers but on the road it never feels lacking, that's the problem when reading about it, its all about more and faster but in the real world its a properly rapid little car.
If you go for say 340 bhp, thats 280 ish bhp/tonne, have a look at cars with a similar power to weight, about the same as an F10 M5.
J4CKO said:
Dont need 400 bhp, I went for the TT 270 and its fast enough for a 1200 kilo Fiesta, can obviously go further and on open roads it could handle more but you are soon into ban territory at that power level (300 ish allegedly) and it almost feels a bit too much on the country lanes if I am honest.
Its not all win/win, Ford knew what they were dong, and the Stage 2 stuff adds to that, they are generally very driveable. The hybrids/bigger turbos you do feel like you lose something in terms of the low down torque in favour of charging round to 7500 rpm, there are more scenarios where a Stage 2 car is suitable than one with a bigger turbo, but when you do get to deploy it, its pretty vivid.
I went to Collins as its a safe package, CP4 felt like a bit of a cop out, can go to CP5, or there are other tuners who do bigger peak numbers but on the road it never feels lacking, that's the problem when reading about it, its all about more and faster but in the real world its a properly rapid little car.
If you go for say 340 bhp, thats 280 ish bhp/tonne, have a look at cars with a similar power to weight, about the same as an F10 M5.
Yep, certainly won't hang about. I'm quite happy with my Collins map so far (CP2E) , I am very tempted with CP5 but it's all about weighing up my options. I think I may focus on getting the car to look how I want (spitter kit all around, lowering springs, different wheels and possibly some spacers??) But that will be the focus after Christmas Its not all win/win, Ford knew what they were dong, and the Stage 2 stuff adds to that, they are generally very driveable. The hybrids/bigger turbos you do feel like you lose something in terms of the low down torque in favour of charging round to 7500 rpm, there are more scenarios where a Stage 2 car is suitable than one with a bigger turbo, but when you do get to deploy it, its pretty vivid.
I went to Collins as its a safe package, CP4 felt like a bit of a cop out, can go to CP5, or there are other tuners who do bigger peak numbers but on the road it never feels lacking, that's the problem when reading about it, its all about more and faster but in the real world its a properly rapid little car.
If you go for say 340 bhp, thats 280 ish bhp/tonne, have a look at cars with a similar power to weight, about the same as an F10 M5.
Dylanaledhall said:
J4CKO said:
Dont need 400 bhp, I went for the TT 270 and its fast enough for a 1200 kilo Fiesta, can obviously go further and on open roads it could handle more but you are soon into ban territory at that power level (300 ish allegedly) and it almost feels a bit too much on the country lanes if I am honest.
Its not all win/win, Ford knew what they were dong, and the Stage 2 stuff adds to that, they are generally very driveable. The hybrids/bigger turbos you do feel like you lose something in terms of the low down torque in favour of charging round to 7500 rpm, there are more scenarios where a Stage 2 car is suitable than one with a bigger turbo, but when you do get to deploy it, its pretty vivid.
I went to Collins as its a safe package, CP4 felt like a bit of a cop out, can go to CP5, or there are other tuners who do bigger peak numbers but on the road it never feels lacking, that's the problem when reading about it, its all about more and faster but in the real world its a properly rapid little car.
If you go for say 340 bhp, thats 280 ish bhp/tonne, have a look at cars with a similar power to weight, about the same as an F10 M5.
Yep, certainly won't hang about. I'm quite happy with my Collins map so far (CP2E) , I am very tempted with CP5 but it's all about weighing up my options. I think I may focus on getting the car to look how I want (spitter kit all around, lowering springs, different wheels and possibly some spacers??) But that will be the focus after Christmas Its not all win/win, Ford knew what they were dong, and the Stage 2 stuff adds to that, they are generally very driveable. The hybrids/bigger turbos you do feel like you lose something in terms of the low down torque in favour of charging round to 7500 rpm, there are more scenarios where a Stage 2 car is suitable than one with a bigger turbo, but when you do get to deploy it, its pretty vivid.
I went to Collins as its a safe package, CP4 felt like a bit of a cop out, can go to CP5, or there are other tuners who do bigger peak numbers but on the road it never feels lacking, that's the problem when reading about it, its all about more and faster but in the real world its a properly rapid little car.
If you go for say 340 bhp, thats 280 ish bhp/tonne, have a look at cars with a similar power to weight, about the same as an F10 M5.
t Bond film.Dont rush it, get it done properly and enjoy it .
My son sold his Golf R, he is home this weekend and will be taking this back to Scotland for a coupel of weeks.
Couldn’t agree more Jacko. I’d imagine between 250-270 is the sweet spot where the car delivers useful power that can be exploited. I can’t imagine that traction will be any good much beyond that.
The big numbers are good for pub talk and forums but if all you end up doing is trying to manage traction and waiting to get on boost, then you’ve probably ruined the car, not that most would admit so after spending a lot to get there.
Over the years, one thing I’ve noticed with different cars is many want the big numbers and when they get there end up selling their cars. Too heavy clutch (to take the power), too much fuel usage, too many things constantly needing maintenance, too raw/noisy etc.
Also as you’ve mentioned if the car gets so fast, it’s power can’t really be exploited without going dangerously fast or risking losing your license. My motorbike is in this category, it’s a BMW S1000RR and makes a bit more than 200bhp, in standard form it will do 0-60 in 2.6s, 0-100 in 5s and other pointless stuff for the road like 96mph in first gear. Sounds exciting but really for me, it’s a lesson in futility since I need my license and can’t afford to get banned. I do love the way it looks, sounds and rides but 100bhp is more than enough for the road.
The big numbers are good for pub talk and forums but if all you end up doing is trying to manage traction and waiting to get on boost, then you’ve probably ruined the car, not that most would admit so after spending a lot to get there.
Over the years, one thing I’ve noticed with different cars is many want the big numbers and when they get there end up selling their cars. Too heavy clutch (to take the power), too much fuel usage, too many things constantly needing maintenance, too raw/noisy etc.
Also as you’ve mentioned if the car gets so fast, it’s power can’t really be exploited without going dangerously fast or risking losing your license. My motorbike is in this category, it’s a BMW S1000RR and makes a bit more than 200bhp, in standard form it will do 0-60 in 2.6s, 0-100 in 5s and other pointless stuff for the road like 96mph in first gear. Sounds exciting but really for me, it’s a lesson in futility since I need my license and can’t afford to get banned. I do love the way it looks, sounds and rides but 100bhp is more than enough for the road.
J4CKO said:
Dylanaledhall said:
J4CKO said:
Dont need 400 bhp, I went for the TT 270 and its fast enough for a 1200 kilo Fiesta, can obviously go further and on open roads it could handle more but you are soon into ban territory at that power level (300 ish allegedly) and it almost feels a bit too much on the country lanes if I am honest.
Its not all win/win, Ford knew what they were dong, and the Stage 2 stuff adds to that, they are generally very driveable. The hybrids/bigger turbos you do feel like you lose something in terms of the low down torque in favour of charging round to 7500 rpm, there are more scenarios where a Stage 2 car is suitable than one with a bigger turbo, but when you do get to deploy it, its pretty vivid.
I went to Collins as its a safe package, CP4 felt like a bit of a cop out, can go to CP5, or there are other tuners who do bigger peak numbers but on the road it never feels lacking, that's the problem when reading about it, its all about more and faster but in the real world its a properly rapid little car.
If you go for say 340 bhp, thats 280 ish bhp/tonne, have a look at cars with a similar power to weight, about the same as an F10 M5.
Yep, certainly won't hang about. I'm quite happy with my Collins map so far (CP2E) , I am very tempted with CP5 but it's all about weighing up my options. I think I may focus on getting the car to look how I want (spitter kit all around, lowering springs, different wheels and possibly some spacers??) But that will be the focus after Christmas Its not all win/win, Ford knew what they were dong, and the Stage 2 stuff adds to that, they are generally very driveable. The hybrids/bigger turbos you do feel like you lose something in terms of the low down torque in favour of charging round to 7500 rpm, there are more scenarios where a Stage 2 car is suitable than one with a bigger turbo, but when you do get to deploy it, its pretty vivid.
I went to Collins as its a safe package, CP4 felt like a bit of a cop out, can go to CP5, or there are other tuners who do bigger peak numbers but on the road it never feels lacking, that's the problem when reading about it, its all about more and faster but in the real world its a properly rapid little car.
If you go for say 340 bhp, thats 280 ish bhp/tonne, have a look at cars with a similar power to weight, about the same as an F10 M5.
t Bond film.Dont rush it, get it done properly and enjoy it .
My son sold his Golf R, he is home this weekend and will be taking this back to Scotland for a coupel of weeks.
J4CKO said:
CP2E is ace, it should be enough but suspect you are like me where enough is never quite enough, which sounds like a st Bond film.
Dont rush it, get it done properly and enjoy it .
My son sold his Golf R, he is home this weekend and will be taking this back to Scotland for a coupel of weeks.
Yeah it's not bad at all, not had it on a dyno so no idea of figures but to be honest all dynos are different so the only reason I'd take the car to one is now at stage 2 and then at stage 3 to see the difference.t Bond film.Dont rush it, get it done properly and enjoy it .
My son sold his Golf R, he is home this weekend and will be taking this back to Scotland for a coupel of weeks.
I aim to keep this car for a while. So I'm in no rush at all
I'll second what Scobble said, any reason why he sold it? Just because I'm a big Golf R fan and want to know if he liked it or not
Edited by Dylanaledhall on Sunday 31st October 20:35
He seemed a bit nonplussed about it, he was offered my M135i and he used it for a month, took it back up to Scotland where he works and came back, didnt want it and decided on a Golf R.
We went and got a nice Blue Manual one with the Pretoria alloys, good looking car. I drive it a couple of times and wondered what the fuss was about, we have a diesel DSG one and most of the time I would forget which one I was in. He did the resonator delete to get a bit more noise from it but didnt want to map it or anything as the manuals will just kill their clutch the minute you map it. He had to top it up with oil, well within spec but that put him off it a bit I think and there was a little leak into the cabin which he sorted.
Think he loved the idea of it, the look of it and had some fun but just didnt really engage enough, plus he had the opportunity to get out of it and be slightly up on the deal. So he now has the balance in the bank as he paid mostly in cash, I lent him some and he paid me back. We went of a car hunt and turned up a Merc CLK 220 CDI locally so we grabbed that as needed something quick, seems ok, he quite likes it and says he hasnt missed the Golf R, maybe the lack of any kind of noise other than the Dumptruck soundtrack of the Merc 4 banger diesel.
He has played a blinder, sold me his FIesta, has now stuck cash back in the bank and is now insured on the Fiesta again, but this time its had all the mods he would have done I am going to have the Merc for a bit and he can take mine back up to Sconny Botland for a bit.
The Golf and the BMW were good cars, plenty fast but neither really hit the spot as a drivers car for us.
I reckon he will do a while with the old Merc and then, when prices normalise a bit go for something else.
We went and got a nice Blue Manual one with the Pretoria alloys, good looking car. I drive it a couple of times and wondered what the fuss was about, we have a diesel DSG one and most of the time I would forget which one I was in. He did the resonator delete to get a bit more noise from it but didnt want to map it or anything as the manuals will just kill their clutch the minute you map it. He had to top it up with oil, well within spec but that put him off it a bit I think and there was a little leak into the cabin which he sorted.
Think he loved the idea of it, the look of it and had some fun but just didnt really engage enough, plus he had the opportunity to get out of it and be slightly up on the deal. So he now has the balance in the bank as he paid mostly in cash, I lent him some and he paid me back. We went of a car hunt and turned up a Merc CLK 220 CDI locally so we grabbed that as needed something quick, seems ok, he quite likes it and says he hasnt missed the Golf R, maybe the lack of any kind of noise other than the Dumptruck soundtrack of the Merc 4 banger diesel.
He has played a blinder, sold me his FIesta, has now stuck cash back in the bank and is now insured on the Fiesta again, but this time its had all the mods he would have done
I am going to have the Merc for a bit and he can take mine back up to Sconny Botland for a bit.The Golf and the BMW were good cars, plenty fast but neither really hit the spot as a drivers car for us.
I reckon he will do a while with the old Merc and then, when prices normalise a bit go for something else.
J4CKO said:
He seemed a bit nonplussed about it, he was offered my M135i and he used it for a month, took it back up to Scotland where he works and came back, didnt want it and decided on a Golf R.
We went and got a nice Blue Manual one with the Pretoria alloys, good looking car. I drive it a couple of times and wondered what the fuss was about, we have a diesel DSG one and most of the time I would forget which one I was in. He did the resonator delete to get a bit more noise from it but didnt want to map it or anything as the manuals will just kill their clutch the minute you map it. He had to top it up with oil, well within spec but that put him off it a bit I think and there was a little leak into the cabin which he sorted.
Think he loved the idea of it, the look of it and had some fun but just didnt really engage enough, plus he had the opportunity to get out of it and be slightly up on the deal. So he now has the balance in the bank as he paid mostly in cash, I lent him some and he paid me back. We went of a car hunt and turned up a Merc CLK 220 CDI locally so we grabbed that as needed something quick, seems ok, he quite likes it and says he hasnt missed the Golf R, maybe the lack of any kind of noise other than the Dumptruck soundtrack of the Merc 4 banger diesel.
He has played a blinder, sold me his FIesta, has now stuck cash back in the bank and is now insured on the Fiesta again, but this time its had all the mods he would have done I am going to have the Merc for a bit and he can take mine back up to Sconny Botland for a bit.
The Golf and the BMW were good cars, plenty fast but neither really hit the spot as a drivers car for us.
I reckon he will do a while with the old Merc and then, when prices normalise a bit go for something else.
I feel exactly the same way you do about the M135i and Golf R. Both decent cars but ultimately I didn't click with either. I am, however super impressed by you creating a new generation of petrol heads! We went and got a nice Blue Manual one with the Pretoria alloys, good looking car. I drive it a couple of times and wondered what the fuss was about, we have a diesel DSG one and most of the time I would forget which one I was in. He did the resonator delete to get a bit more noise from it but didnt want to map it or anything as the manuals will just kill their clutch the minute you map it. He had to top it up with oil, well within spec but that put him off it a bit I think and there was a little leak into the cabin which he sorted.
Think he loved the idea of it, the look of it and had some fun but just didnt really engage enough, plus he had the opportunity to get out of it and be slightly up on the deal. So he now has the balance in the bank as he paid mostly in cash, I lent him some and he paid me back. We went of a car hunt and turned up a Merc CLK 220 CDI locally so we grabbed that as needed something quick, seems ok, he quite likes it and says he hasnt missed the Golf R, maybe the lack of any kind of noise other than the Dumptruck soundtrack of the Merc 4 banger diesel.
He has played a blinder, sold me his FIesta, has now stuck cash back in the bank and is now insured on the Fiesta again, but this time its had all the mods he would have done
I am going to have the Merc for a bit and he can take mine back up to Sconny Botland for a bit.The Golf and the BMW were good cars, plenty fast but neither really hit the spot as a drivers car for us.
I reckon he will do a while with the old Merc and then, when prices normalise a bit go for something else.
I like bits about each but in the end I just drove them as transport devices and never felt the need to go and have a fun drive with either. The M135i is fine as a GT car until you start to push it and find it's not very well sorted. The Golf R is very well sorted but sadly quite boring to drive, the noise is average and the levels of grip just make it feel totally planted without any drama. The Golf R is also very dead from a steering, feedback perspective and I don't really like the DSG as it has some weird quirks.
I think AWD cars can feel dull unless they are at a wild level of tune but the problem is when they get to that level they become very expensive to own/maintain and pushing them results in license losing speeds. My old Impreza (1999) was 255bhp from the factory (@1150kg) but didn't feel fun until it was tuned over 330bhp (I finished with it at 394 or 373 on normal fuel) and it would move around under hard acceleration and felt alive but again you'd have to drive it hard to really enjoy it. Otherwise it was noisy, heavy clutch and responded poorly below 3.5k revs.
This for me is the genius of cars like the Fiesta ST that are nimble, provide feedback, quick enough for the road and cheap to run.
Honestly, I've driven a lot of new performance cars and very few (like the Fiesta ST) are fun anymore, they are very fast, heavy and hugely competent but not fun and engaging.
I think it's one of the reasons I went back to having fun on motorbikes, the thrill factor is just massive compared to cars and they are super cheap to buy and own, plus for me it allows me to beat the heavy city traffic by being able to filter.
Edited by Scobblelotcher on Monday 1st November 15:02
Scobblelotcher said:
I feel exactly the same way you do about the M135i and Golf R. Both decent cars but ultimately I didn't click with either. I am, however super impressed by you creating a new generation of petrol heads!
I like bits about each but in the end I just drove them as transport devices and never felt the need to go and have a fun drive with either. The M135i is fine as a GT car until you start to push it and find it's not very well sorted. The Golf R is very well sorted but sadly quite boring to drive, the noise is average and the levels of grip just make it feel totally planted without any drama. The Golf R is also very dead from a steering, feedback perspective and I don't really like the DSG as it has some weird quirks.
I think AWD cars can feel dull unless they are at a wild level of tune but the problem is when they get to that level they become very expensive to own/maintain and pushing them results in license losing speeds. My old Impreza (1999) was 255bhp from the factory (@1150kg) but didn't feel fun until it was tuned over 330bhp (I finished with it at 394 or 373 on normal fuel) and it would move around under hard acceleration and felt alive but again you'd have to drive it hard to really enjoy it. Otherwise it was noisy, heavy clutch and responded poorly below 3.5k revs.
This for me is the genius of cars like the Fiesta ST that are nimble, provide feedback, quick enough for the road and cheap to run.
Honestly, I've driven a lot of new performance cars and very few (like the Fiesta ST) are fun anymore, they are very fast, heavy and hugely competent but not fun and engaging.
I think it's one of the reasons I went back to having fun on motorbikes, the thrill factor is just massive compared to cars and they are super cheap to buy and own, plus for me it allows me to beat the heavy city traffic by being able to filter.
Dammit I like bits about each but in the end I just drove them as transport devices and never felt the need to go and have a fun drive with either. The M135i is fine as a GT car until you start to push it and find it's not very well sorted. The Golf R is very well sorted but sadly quite boring to drive, the noise is average and the levels of grip just make it feel totally planted without any drama. The Golf R is also very dead from a steering, feedback perspective and I don't really like the DSG as it has some weird quirks.
I think AWD cars can feel dull unless they are at a wild level of tune but the problem is when they get to that level they become very expensive to own/maintain and pushing them results in license losing speeds. My old Impreza (1999) was 255bhp from the factory (@1150kg) but didn't feel fun until it was tuned over 330bhp (I finished with it at 394 or 373 on normal fuel) and it would move around under hard acceleration and felt alive but again you'd have to drive it hard to really enjoy it. Otherwise it was noisy, heavy clutch and responded poorly below 3.5k revs.
This for me is the genius of cars like the Fiesta ST that are nimble, provide feedback, quick enough for the road and cheap to run.
Honestly, I've driven a lot of new performance cars and very few (like the Fiesta ST) are fun anymore, they are very fast, heavy and hugely competent but not fun and engaging.
I think it's one of the reasons I went back to having fun on motorbikes, the thrill factor is just massive compared to cars and they are super cheap to buy and own, plus for me it allows me to beat the heavy city traffic by being able to filter.
Edited by Scobblelotcher on Monday 1st November 15:02
that's annoyed me because I really like both the M135i and Golf R. I think if I had a Golf R I'd be going stage 2 on it and then ultimately making my way towards stage 3. For a 2.0 the tuning capabilities are immense ( I know this isn't everyone's cup of tea). M135i's are really good value for money in my opinion, but barely anyone pushes them past the 400bhp mark, couple of 500bhp builds here in the UK but not many compared to the likes of the M140i which seems to have been the tuner's choice when it comes to hot hatches. I think as long as you sort out the handling on the m lites I think they're ok. May book a test drive in both an M135i and a Golf R in the new year, just to see if they'll impress me enough to become a future project
J4CKO said:
He seemed a bit nonplussed about it, he was offered my M135i and he used it for a month, took it back up to Scotland where he works and came back, didnt want it and decided on a Golf R.
We went and got a nice Blue Manual one with the Pretoria alloys, good looking car. I drive it a couple of times and wondered what the fuss was about, we have a diesel DSG one and most of the time I would forget which one I was in. He did the resonator delete to get a bit more noise from it but didnt want to map it or anything as the manuals will just kill their clutch the minute you map it. He had to top it up with oil, well within spec but that put him off it a bit I think and there was a little leak into the cabin which he sorted.
Think he loved the idea of it, the look of it and had some fun but just didnt really engage enough, plus he had the opportunity to get out of it and be slightly up on the deal. So he now has the balance in the bank as he paid mostly in cash, I lent him some and he paid me back. We went of a car hunt and turned up a Merc CLK 220 CDI locally so we grabbed that as needed something quick, seems ok, he quite likes it and says he hasnt missed the Golf R, maybe the lack of any kind of noise other than the Dumptruck soundtrack of the Merc 4 banger diesel.
He has played a blinder, sold me his FIesta, has now stuck cash back in the bank and is now insured on the Fiesta again, but this time its had all the mods he would have done I am going to have the Merc for a bit and he can take mine back up to Sconny Botland for a bit.
The Golf and the BMW were good cars, plenty fast but neither really hit the spot as a drivers car for us.
I reckon he will do a while with the old Merc and then, when prices normalise a bit go for something else.
On the 2.1d's a replacement K&N & a map make them not only better on fuel they also run better, does it have the 5 or 7 speed box? We went and got a nice Blue Manual one with the Pretoria alloys, good looking car. I drive it a couple of times and wondered what the fuss was about, we have a diesel DSG one and most of the time I would forget which one I was in. He did the resonator delete to get a bit more noise from it but didnt want to map it or anything as the manuals will just kill their clutch the minute you map it. He had to top it up with oil, well within spec but that put him off it a bit I think and there was a little leak into the cabin which he sorted.
Think he loved the idea of it, the look of it and had some fun but just didnt really engage enough, plus he had the opportunity to get out of it and be slightly up on the deal. So he now has the balance in the bank as he paid mostly in cash, I lent him some and he paid me back. We went of a car hunt and turned up a Merc CLK 220 CDI locally so we grabbed that as needed something quick, seems ok, he quite likes it and says he hasnt missed the Golf R, maybe the lack of any kind of noise other than the Dumptruck soundtrack of the Merc 4 banger diesel.
He has played a blinder, sold me his FIesta, has now stuck cash back in the bank and is now insured on the Fiesta again, but this time its had all the mods he would have done
I am going to have the Merc for a bit and he can take mine back up to Sconny Botland for a bit.The Golf and the BMW were good cars, plenty fast but neither really hit the spot as a drivers car for us.
I reckon he will do a while with the old Merc and then, when prices normalise a bit go for something else.
Dylanaledhall said:
Scobblelotcher said:
I feel exactly the same way you do about the M135i and Golf R. Both decent cars but ultimately I didn't click with either. I am, however super impressed by you creating a new generation of petrol heads!
I like bits about each but in the end I just drove them as transport devices and never felt the need to go and have a fun drive with either. The M135i is fine as a GT car until you start to push it and find it's not very well sorted. The Golf R is very well sorted but sadly quite boring to drive, the noise is average and the levels of grip just make it feel totally planted without any drama. The Golf R is also very dead from a steering, feedback perspective and I don't really like the DSG as it has some weird quirks.
I think AWD cars can feel dull unless they are at a wild level of tune but the problem is when they get to that level they become very expensive to own/maintain and pushing them results in license losing speeds. My old Impreza (1999) was 255bhp from the factory (@1150kg) but didn't feel fun until it was tuned over 330bhp (I finished with it at 394 or 373 on normal fuel) and it would move around under hard acceleration and felt alive but again you'd have to drive it hard to really enjoy it. Otherwise it was noisy, heavy clutch and responded poorly below 3.5k revs.
This for me is the genius of cars like the Fiesta ST that are nimble, provide feedback, quick enough for the road and cheap to run.
Honestly, I've driven a lot of new performance cars and very few (like the Fiesta ST) are fun anymore, they are very fast, heavy and hugely competent but not fun and engaging.
I think it's one of the reasons I went back to having fun on motorbikes, the thrill factor is just massive compared to cars and they are super cheap to buy and own, plus for me it allows me to beat the heavy city traffic by being able to filter.
Dammit I like bits about each but in the end I just drove them as transport devices and never felt the need to go and have a fun drive with either. The M135i is fine as a GT car until you start to push it and find it's not very well sorted. The Golf R is very well sorted but sadly quite boring to drive, the noise is average and the levels of grip just make it feel totally planted without any drama. The Golf R is also very dead from a steering, feedback perspective and I don't really like the DSG as it has some weird quirks.
I think AWD cars can feel dull unless they are at a wild level of tune but the problem is when they get to that level they become very expensive to own/maintain and pushing them results in license losing speeds. My old Impreza (1999) was 255bhp from the factory (@1150kg) but didn't feel fun until it was tuned over 330bhp (I finished with it at 394 or 373 on normal fuel) and it would move around under hard acceleration and felt alive but again you'd have to drive it hard to really enjoy it. Otherwise it was noisy, heavy clutch and responded poorly below 3.5k revs.
This for me is the genius of cars like the Fiesta ST that are nimble, provide feedback, quick enough for the road and cheap to run.
Honestly, I've driven a lot of new performance cars and very few (like the Fiesta ST) are fun anymore, they are very fast, heavy and hugely competent but not fun and engaging.
I think it's one of the reasons I went back to having fun on motorbikes, the thrill factor is just massive compared to cars and they are super cheap to buy and own, plus for me it allows me to beat the heavy city traffic by being able to filter.
Edited by Scobblelotcher on Monday 1st November 15:02
that's annoyed me because I really like both the M135i and Golf R. I think if I had a Golf R I'd be going stage 2 on it and then ultimately making my way towards stage 3. For a 2.0 the tuning capabilities are immense ( I know this isn't everyone's cup of tea). M135i's are really good value for money in my opinion, but barely anyone pushes them past the 400bhp mark, couple of 500bhp builds here in the UK but not many compared to the likes of the M140i which seems to have been the tuner's choice when it comes to hot hatches. I think as long as you sort out the handling on the m lites I think they're ok. May book a test drive in both an M135i and a Golf R in the new year, just to see if they'll impress me enough to become a future project
I think some go from the ST to one and love it as they are posher, comfier and have more power but its not a win/win, guarantee you will miss the Fiesta in some respects.
It leaves me a bit confused as to what to go for next, not that I am looking .
ZX10R NIN said:
J4CKO said:
He seemed a bit nonplussed about it, he was offered my M135i and he used it for a month, took it back up to Scotland where he works and came back, didnt want it and decided on a Golf R.
We went and got a nice Blue Manual one with the Pretoria alloys, good looking car. I drive it a couple of times and wondered what the fuss was about, we have a diesel DSG one and most of the time I would forget which one I was in. He did the resonator delete to get a bit more noise from it but didnt want to map it or anything as the manuals will just kill their clutch the minute you map it. He had to top it up with oil, well within spec but that put him off it a bit I think and there was a little leak into the cabin which he sorted.
Think he loved the idea of it, the look of it and had some fun but just didnt really engage enough, plus he had the opportunity to get out of it and be slightly up on the deal. So he now has the balance in the bank as he paid mostly in cash, I lent him some and he paid me back. We went of a car hunt and turned up a Merc CLK 220 CDI locally so we grabbed that as needed something quick, seems ok, he quite likes it and says he hasnt missed the Golf R, maybe the lack of any kind of noise other than the Dumptruck soundtrack of the Merc 4 banger diesel.
He has played a blinder, sold me his FIesta, has now stuck cash back in the bank and is now insured on the Fiesta again, but this time its had all the mods he would have done I am going to have the Merc for a bit and he can take mine back up to Sconny Botland for a bit.
The Golf and the BMW were good cars, plenty fast but neither really hit the spot as a drivers car for us.
I reckon he will do a while with the old Merc and then, when prices normalise a bit go for something else.
On the 2.1d's a replacement K&N & a map make them not only better on fuel they also run better, does it have the 5 or 7 speed box? We went and got a nice Blue Manual one with the Pretoria alloys, good looking car. I drive it a couple of times and wondered what the fuss was about, we have a diesel DSG one and most of the time I would forget which one I was in. He did the resonator delete to get a bit more noise from it but didnt want to map it or anything as the manuals will just kill their clutch the minute you map it. He had to top it up with oil, well within spec but that put him off it a bit I think and there was a little leak into the cabin which he sorted.
Think he loved the idea of it, the look of it and had some fun but just didnt really engage enough, plus he had the opportunity to get out of it and be slightly up on the deal. So he now has the balance in the bank as he paid mostly in cash, I lent him some and he paid me back. We went of a car hunt and turned up a Merc CLK 220 CDI locally so we grabbed that as needed something quick, seems ok, he quite likes it and says he hasnt missed the Golf R, maybe the lack of any kind of noise other than the Dumptruck soundtrack of the Merc 4 banger diesel.
He has played a blinder, sold me his FIesta, has now stuck cash back in the bank and is now insured on the Fiesta again, but this time its had all the mods he would have done
I am going to have the Merc for a bit and he can take mine back up to Sconny Botland for a bit.The Golf and the BMW were good cars, plenty fast but neither really hit the spot as a drivers car for us.
I reckon he will do a while with the old Merc and then, when prices normalise a bit go for something else.
J4CKO said:
Its a 5 speeder, 2005, he does seem to like it though has nicked my Fiesta to go out tonight, been dying to get his hands on it.
If it hasn't been done in a while then a fluid & filter change will make a significant difference to it's shift & it'll adapt itself to his driving style.J4CKO said:
I think at 400 bhp or more its labouring a point for road use anyway, its pretty cool to have mega power but not really necessary, the M140i is more suitable for big power engine wise, but not sure they need it, rude not to do a map and some bits but when you are in 500 plus that is a serious amount of power.
I think some go from the ST to one and love it as they are posher, comfier and have more power but its not a win/win, guarantee you will miss the Fiesta in some respects.
It leaves me a bit confused as to what to go for next, not that I am looking .
I might miss it when I finally move on, one bonus about a fiesta is you can buy them for around 5-6k so if I fancy going back I can I think some go from the ST to one and love it as they are posher, comfier and have more power but its not a win/win, guarantee you will miss the Fiesta in some respects.
It leaves me a bit confused as to what to go for next, not that I am looking .
. I know someone who had a stage 3 ST, he then went to an A45 ( stage 2 ), then he went back to an ST again because he missed it. I guess there's something about fiestas that always has our heart for some reason. Edited by Dylanaledhall on Monday 1st November 20:52
Dylanaledhall said:
I might miss it when I finally move on, one bonus about a fiesta is you can buy them for around 5-6k so if I fancy going back I can . I know someone who had a stage 3 ST, he then went to an A45 ( stage 2 ), then he went back to an ST again because he missed it. I guess there's something about fiestas that always has our heart for some reason.
You have to be sure, easy to get swayed by posher badges, shiny new things, 4wd and more power etc, after the initial novelty does it get under your skin ? Dont want to over eulogise the Fiesta ST as its not perfect, the ride is crap, people think you are a bit of a knob and they get nicked all the time but it just has something that not all cars do, but we dont all like the same things. . I know someone who had a stage 3 ST, he then went to an A45 ( stage 2 ), then he went back to an ST again because he missed it. I guess there's something about fiestas that always has our heart for some reason. ZX10R NIN said:
If it hasn't been done in a while then a fluid & filter change will make a significant difference to it's shift & it'll adapt itself to his driving style.
Yeah its on the list for when he comes back for Christmas, just getting some miles on it to see if its worth it, had to top the oil up today, took a litre and he has done 700 miles but doesnt know when it last had some, prob the service in May and its done 5/6 k since then, probably an aged turbo.J4CKO said:
Dylanaledhall said:
I might miss it when I finally move on, one bonus about a fiesta is you can buy them for around 5-6k so if I fancy going back I can . I know someone who had a stage 3 ST, he then went to an A45 ( stage 2 ), then he went back to an ST again because he missed it. I guess there's something about fiestas that always has our heart for some reason.
You have to be sure, easy to get swayed by posher badges, shiny new things, 4wd and more power etc, after the initial novelty does it get under your skin ? Dont want to over eulogise the Fiesta ST as its not perfect, the ride is crap, people think you are a bit of a knob and they get nicked all the time but it just has something that not all cars do, but we dont all like the same things. . I know someone who had a stage 3 ST, he then went to an A45 ( stage 2 ), then he went back to an ST again because he missed it. I guess there's something about fiestas that always has our heart for some reason. ZX10R NIN said:
If it hasn't been done in a while then a fluid & filter change will make a significant difference to it's shift & it'll adapt itself to his driving style.
Yeah its on the list for when he comes back for Christmas, just getting some miles on it to see if its worth it, had to top the oil up today, took a litre and he has done 700 miles but doesnt know when it last had some, prob the service in May and its done 5/6 k since then, probably an aged turbo.The thefts, while an issue, it's the same story for many other cars such as Golf Rs, Audi S3s/ RS3s, RS4s, M3s/M4s, SVRs, RS6s etc etc so as long as you're willing to fork out on extra security it'll give you a better piece of mind. it won't stop anyone from stealing it ( I've always known if they want the car, they'll take it) And to be honest, I'd rather them just take it over potentially breaking into my house threatening myself or my family just to find the keys. I personally do have added security but if someone really wanted it, they'd easily take it.
I think overall, it is just a very fun, affordable package. Yes there are so many "better cars" for the money, as you've said, we don't all like the same thing. But when I started driving I always lusted after an ST. Now at 21 I finally own what is a dream car of mine, some people dream of Lamborghinis and Ferraris but I'm just happy with my little Fiesta. I think my next "dream" car would either be an M3/M4 or an Evo
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