Purchased/Looking after a 2012 Insignia - WCPGW
Discussion
If anyone wants to know what happens to the oil when this poxy seal fails this video show it rather well
https://youtu.be/WAo5ODRTx-c
In a nut shell if the seal starts to fail the oil pump gets to suck in air instead of oil (easier of course) - the oil pressure stays the same (or near enough) but with huge amounts of air in the oil it doesn't take much imagination to work out that the job of keeping moving parts apart is compromised - especially in high load areas like big end bearings and cam shafts
If the seal had been below the oil level it wouldn't be a problem (pump would have choice of oil from the strainer or oil from the sump past the seal) but as it's right at the top of the sump it is
https://youtu.be/WAo5ODRTx-c
In a nut shell if the seal starts to fail the oil pump gets to suck in air instead of oil (easier of course) - the oil pressure stays the same (or near enough) but with huge amounts of air in the oil it doesn't take much imagination to work out that the job of keeping moving parts apart is compromised - especially in high load areas like big end bearings and cam shafts
If the seal had been below the oil level it wouldn't be a problem (pump would have choice of oil from the strainer or oil from the sump past the seal) but as it's right at the top of the sump it is
ZX10R NIN said:
Good job you changed it when you did.
Yeah no early warning signs of failure on this one (apparently on cold winter starts they register a low oil pressure alarm - owners who turn off and restart say it clears the problem - I'm not so sure on that as it's likely to be this poxy seal allowing the oil pump to drain back to the sump overnight)PS the bits of the seal were in the mesh of the pick up pipe - thanks for the earlier tip
Edited by B'stard Child on Wednesday 5th May 23:21
ACCYSTAN said:
Looked long and hard locally for a decent Insignia, gave up after many wasted trips.
My mate had a similar experience recently and ended up going for an Astra estate instead.
A good 10 year plus Insignia is a rarity.
I must admit the search for this one wasn't exactly easy - a heck of a lot of dross out there.My mate had a similar experience recently and ended up going for an Astra estate instead.
A good 10 year plus Insignia is a rarity.
I'm not sure I'd classify it as good anymore - it's already picked up a few scrapes - The Niece really is a bit of a car killer!!!
OllieJolly said:
I would highly suggest you have the oil pickup o-ring replaced in that, if you can't do it yourself.
It may be fine, but for the price and short amount of pain of having it done, you may save a lot of grief.
I would have preferred the 1.8, personally.
I wouldn't buy a car with the 2.0 CDTI myself, my partner's Astra had the seal start to go and I changed it (took me 2 days) but it was too late. The top end had started rattling and tapping, and then by the time I did the next oil change it started knocking from the bottom end, too.
That's aside from the DMF, EGR and DPF issues that can quite easily occur if you're not careful.
The suggestion of the 1.8 being slow annoys me.
138bhp in a car the size/weight of the Insignia is absolutely adequate.
I had a brand new 1.8 petrol in 2009 and it was fine, felt very long legged on the Motorway.It may be fine, but for the price and short amount of pain of having it done, you may save a lot of grief.
I would have preferred the 1.8, personally.
I wouldn't buy a car with the 2.0 CDTI myself, my partner's Astra had the seal start to go and I changed it (took me 2 days) but it was too late. The top end had started rattling and tapping, and then by the time I did the next oil change it started knocking from the bottom end, too.
That's aside from the DMF, EGR and DPF issues that can quite easily occur if you're not careful.
The suggestion of the 1.8 being slow annoys me.
138bhp in a car the size/weight of the Insignia is absolutely adequate.
OK, it was no Ferrari, but perfectly adequate, don't know what the fuss was about.
Wacky Racer said:
I had a brand new 1.8 petrol in 2009 and it was fine, felt very long legged on the Motorway.
OK, it was no Ferrari, but perfectly adequate, don't know what the fuss was about.
Back in the late 80's I had a 1986 Vauxhall Carlton 1.8Li - one of the best cars I have ever owned and it got me into Carltons and Senators - superb carsOK, it was no Ferrari, but perfectly adequate, don't know what the fuss was about.
White one like this - normally I'd post a picture of my car but well Photobucket f
ked the internet didn't they!!!
B'stard Child said:
Yeah no early warning signs of failure on this one (apparently on cold winter starts they register a low oil pressure alarm - owners who turn off and restart say it clears the problem - I'm not so sure on that as it's likely to be this poxy seal allowing the oil pump to drain back to the sump overnight)
PS the bits of the seal were in the mesh of the pick up pipe - thanks for the earlier tip
No problem that's what PH is for.
PS the bits of the seal were in the mesh of the pick up pipe - thanks for the earlier tip
No problem that's what PH is for.
Edited by B'stard Child on Wednesday 5th May 23:21
Gordon - it's alive
Finished putting it all back together - no fixings left over (well except for the undertray which I didn't fit till I'm sure there are no leaks)
New Filter (who ever said that was in an awkward place was right)
4.5 Litres of suitable oil and it started straight up - oil pressure light went out quickly and it settled down in the typical dag dag dag dag idle
Ran up to temp no oil leaks that I can see but will check it out properly at the weekend
The area above the driveshaft, subframe and undertray were covered in grease and I wondered if it had a driveshaft gaiter split but the driveshaft is new (ish) so I reckon it's old grease from a split boot and whoever fitted the driveshaft never bothered to clean up anything.
Finished putting it all back together - no fixings left over (well except for the undertray which I didn't fit till I'm sure there are no leaks)
New Filter (who ever said that was in an awkward place was right)
4.5 Litres of suitable oil and it started straight up - oil pressure light went out quickly and it settled down in the typical dag dag dag dag idle
Ran up to temp no oil leaks that I can see but will check it out properly at the weekend
The area above the driveshaft, subframe and undertray were covered in grease and I wondered if it had a driveshaft gaiter split but the driveshaft is new (ish) so I reckon it's old grease from a split boot and whoever fitted the driveshaft never bothered to clean up anything.
So I followed a guide from Car Mechanics Magazine (March 2021 issue) where they did the Oil Seal replacement on a Saab 9-3 1.9 TTid
I won't break copyright by posting it up here but it's available as back issue order
(or it might be out there on the internet if you look really hard)
Here is my comments related to doing the job on an insipid following the articles number step by step process
1 - dipstick remove
2 - undertray remove (all of it )
3 - Disconnect exhaust pipe at three bolt flange - tricky but it will wiggle free - it's then in the way so rather than tie it up I disconnected it at the midbox two bolt flange and then supported the mid box with a jack stand
4 - unbolt the DPF supports from the sump
5 - Not applicable the turbo drain on insignia goes to the block not the sump
6 - Not Applicable - AC Compressor Mount is not mounted to the sump
7 - Driveshaft support bracket - remove the 3 bolts holding the bearing in first - then the three bolts holding the bracket to the sump (one is an utter cow because it fouls the driveshaft before fully removed - hence why the 3 bolts holding support bearing need to be done first as it gives you a few more mm wiggle room and ratchet strap to chassis brace to keep it all out of the way
8 - Breather drain - pops out it doesn't have a long hose to the bottom of the sump & disconnect oil level sensor
9 - Not Applicable
10 - Two Gearbox to bell housing bolts to remove
11 - Drain oil
12 - hidden sump bolts - the flywheel cutouts are incredibly hard to spot but once you find them you need a torx with a min of 125mm length and a magnetic wand to get them out once undone
13 - all the other sump bolts are easy
14 - break sump free - hide hammer and chose impact points carefully
15 - It won't come out so skip steps 16-22 as they aren't needed
23 - remove airbox
24 - undo three bolts that hold engine mount to shell (two long and one short) put the long one in the short hole and that will stop you from raising the height of the engine more than you need and act as a guide to making sure the engine mount goes back in same place
25 - Sump out (26 and 27 not applicable)
28 - strip out sump baffle, oil pick up tube and clean well and remove all traces of old sealant
29 & 30 - remove seal
31 - replace seal
32 - snot up sump with suitable sealant
Reassembly is all of the above in reverse
I won't break copyright by posting it up here but it's available as back issue order
(or it might be out there on the internet if you look really hard)
Here is my comments related to doing the job on an insipid following the articles number step by step process
1 - dipstick remove
2 - undertray remove (all of it )
3 - Disconnect exhaust pipe at three bolt flange - tricky but it will wiggle free - it's then in the way so rather than tie it up I disconnected it at the midbox two bolt flange and then supported the mid box with a jack stand
4 - unbolt the DPF supports from the sump
5 - Not applicable the turbo drain on insignia goes to the block not the sump
6 - Not Applicable - AC Compressor Mount is not mounted to the sump
7 - Driveshaft support bracket - remove the 3 bolts holding the bearing in first - then the three bolts holding the bracket to the sump (one is an utter cow because it fouls the driveshaft before fully removed - hence why the 3 bolts holding support bearing need to be done first as it gives you a few more mm wiggle room and ratchet strap to chassis brace to keep it all out of the way
8 - Breather drain - pops out it doesn't have a long hose to the bottom of the sump & disconnect oil level sensor
9 - Not Applicable
10 - Two Gearbox to bell housing bolts to remove
11 - Drain oil
12 - hidden sump bolts - the flywheel cutouts are incredibly hard to spot but once you find them you need a torx with a min of 125mm length and a magnetic wand to get them out once undone
13 - all the other sump bolts are easy
14 - break sump free - hide hammer and chose impact points carefully
15 - It won't come out so skip steps 16-22 as they aren't needed
23 - remove airbox
24 - undo three bolts that hold engine mount to shell (two long and one short) put the long one in the short hole and that will stop you from raising the height of the engine more than you need and act as a guide to making sure the engine mount goes back in same place
25 - Sump out (26 and 27 not applicable)
28 - strip out sump baffle, oil pick up tube and clean well and remove all traces of old sealant
29 & 30 - remove seal
31 - replace seal
32 - snot up sump with suitable sealant
Reassembly is all of the above in reverse
Arrived home from work to find an Insignia parked outside - turns out to be a social call
but seeing as it was here I checked the usual1. Tyres for tread depth, pressure and condition - all four wheel trims present and correct
2. Brake fluid for level and water content - needs a change before winter I reckon
3. Oil level spot on no top ups have been required (she probably hasn't checked it either)
Jobs/parts to add to the list for procurement
The washer bottle has lost it's cap
The corners have a few more giffer rubs than before but the bumpers are still attached
I think it needs a new mid box still
Overall it's done well to survive this long it's not exactly my cup of tea car wise but I've always lent on the side of "prevention is better than cure" so I have a vested interest in making sure those little acorns (those problems or faults which are ignored) don't end up being giant oak trees (things I have to fix that are massive jobs) in a short space of time.
I am pretty sure that she is checking tyre pressures on a regular basis (they were a smidge higher than the pressure I set them too last time) so that's a start if I can add checking oil and other fluid levels I'll call that progress.
Of course I am totally realistic that it won't help the car when she buries it in roadside furniture but at least it's less likely to expire with it's engine internals spread all over the road and a cloud of steam or smoke pouring out of the bonnet
If you were being paid she'd keep you in business! Have to say they are an utter bargain if you can fix them, loads here for a grand or so. Wouldn't have the cojones, hence buying a 2.0 Mondeo which seems to be the reliability benchmark in the size of car. How did she end up being such an utterly abysmal driver, and how has she still got a license - hitting things, where I live, tends to have cops involved and you'd lose your license quickly for sure.
mercedeslimos said:
If you were being paid she'd keep you in business!
Business I'd rather not have but "Mrs BC's family" 
mercedeslimos said:
Have to say they are an utter bargain if you can fix them, loads here for a grand or so. Wouldn't have the cojones, hence buying a 2.0 Mondeo which seems to be the reliability benchmark in the size of car.
Probably the sensible option but you didn't specify if it was an oil burner or petrol - the oil burners I think have a wet belt driving the oil pump that kills engines when it goes - so also need a bit of prevention activity??? 
mercedeslimos said:
How did she end up being such an utterly abysmal driver, and how has she still got a license - hitting things, where I live, tends to have cops involved and you'd lose your license quickly for sure.
Std answer from me - she was taught to pass a test and hasn't learnt to drive yet 
If I thought she'd actually listen and take on board some constructive critisism I'd try to raise her std of driving but well I think I'd be on a the losing side
Police were involved both times one involved court - not sure how many points she has - I find it's better if I don't ask
She's had also incidents with "exocets" and "rhinos" (Pheasants and Deer) which are a daily risk round these parts - it seems anticipation of stuff is not her strong suit - the exocets cause minor damage but the "rhinos" are proper killers for cheap cars
B'stard Child said:
mercedeslimos said:
If you were being paid she'd keep you in business!
Business I'd rather not have but "Mrs BC's family" mercedeslimos said:
Have to say they are an utter bargain if you can fix them, loads here for a grand or so. Wouldn't have the cojones, hence buying a 2.0 Mondeo which seems to be the reliability benchmark in the size of car.
Probably the sensible option but you didn't specify if it was an oil burner or petrol - the oil burners I think have a wet belt driving the oil pump that kills engines when it goes - so also need a bit of prevention activity??? mercedeslimos said:
How did she end up being such an utterly abysmal driver, and how has she still got a license - hitting things, where I live, tends to have cops involved and you'd lose your license quickly for sure.
Std answer from me - she was taught to pass a test and hasn't learnt to drive yet If I thought she'd actually listen and take on board some constructive critisism I'd try to raise her std of driving but well I think I'd be on a the losing side
Police were involved both times one involved court - not sure how many points she has - I find it's better if I don't ask
She's had also incidents with "exocets" and "rhinos" (Pheasants and Deer) which are a daily risk round these parts - it seems anticipation of stuff is not her strong suit - the exocets cause minor damage but the "rhinos" are proper killers for cheap cars
B'stard Child said:
The washer bottle has lost it's cap
Seeing as I'd sourced one I fitted it today - usual checks everything looking good - still hasn't used a drop of oilIt is however making a funny noise - something in the brakes area but she's taken it to a garage and they can't find anything wrong........
To be honest I'm actually really impressed she took it to a garage - normally her cars get taken there as a last resort when they are completely broken rather than just making a funny noise
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