Alfa Romeo Spider 2000 Veloce

[courty]

BS9ider said:

Good effort. Before heading west I grew up around Maidstone. I remember there being some great roads south of Ashford down to Camber sands and the coast. But everywhere else was pretty busy..

That is still the case, there are some good roads across Romney Marsh which are off the beaten track.

[Castrol for a knave]

courty said:

Jhonno said:

Ah, so tolerance will be normal road spec though which will need less camber than track use.. So that would explain why they wear the outside on hard driving/trackdays.

Yes, I believe you are right. I think there may be adjustable rods available for "GTA" type set ups, but I haven't bothered on any mods yet.
On alpine driving there are many hairpins and understeer does come into play...hence Alfaholics were on about a thicker front sway bar.
edit: There is a large part of me though that just wants to enjoy the 1960's feel of the original set up with all the limitations.

Loving this thread and your car looks fantastic. Great to see it on the track - you've given me ideas (soon as I finish putting on my new rocker covers)

I agree with you that they are a car that gives good feedback. I have a 67 Duetto, and there's no snap oversteer, you just know it going to lose the back end, it's quite progressive.

I have not fitted any upgraded suspension parts. I got chatting to some of the guys over in the US on AlfaBB and they took a view that it is a bit too easy to stiffen up the suspension at the expense of the body, which then has to take an excessive amount of twist.

One thing people don't appreciate it that his was a superb engine for it's time, and is often overlooked in the "greatest engines" debate. This was alight and durable lump that even in my 1600 guise was putting out 105bhp in the mid 60's. Compare that to a lot of it's peers. Compare it to an XR3i or Cavalier SRi 20 years later - which were only just coming close.

The spider is a very underrated car, and I think it is just getting recognise for what it is/was.

[Hoofy]

courty said:

Hoofy said:

Irrelevant to my life but utterly fascinating nonetheless.

Also, I'd love to have a go on a track like Goodwood!

Are you going to attend a Goodwood Revival event with it?

I have been to the Lancia Motor Club track days at Goodwood. To race at Goodwood revival etc. is a very different ball game for race spec. cars and gentry lol.

Fair point!

Must have been pretty cool on the trackday, anyway.

[courty]

Castrol for a knave said:

Loving this thread and your car looks fantastic. Great to see it on the track - you've given me ideas (soon as I finish putting on my new rocker covers)

I agree with you that they are a car that gives good feedback. I have a 67 Duetto, and there's no snap oversteer, you just know it going to lose the back end, it's quite progressive.

I have not fitted any upgraded suspension parts. I got chatting to some of the guys over in the US on AlfaBB and they took a view that it is a bit too easy to stiffen up the suspension at the expense of the body, which then has to take an excessive amount of twist.

One thing people don't appreciate it that his was a superb engine for it's time, and is often overlooked in the "greatest engines" debate. This was alight and durable lump that even in my 1600 guise was putting out 105bhp in the mid 60's. Compare that to a lot of it's peers. Compare it to an XR3i or Cavalier SRi 20 years later - which were only just coming close.

The spider is a very underrated car, and I think it is just getting recognise for what it is/was.

That is some nice input, thank you, yes a lot of people don't realise that the Spiders are 105 cars very similar in set up to their Bertone GT Coupe cousins, albeit with a shorter wheelbase/longer overhangs and a bit more chassis flex. Classic Alfa do a track day at Goodwood, usually on the same weekend as Le Mans. However, I would recommend joining the Lancia Motor Club just for their track day at Goodwood (it's on this Saturday...tomorrow!!), as even with the membership cost it still comes out cheaper, and massively cheaper than to go through Goodwood directly.

[Little Bob]

courty said:

The two main issues with the car are: 1, The engine uses oil. I think it is mainly valve stem seals (the thermostat was in the glove box when I picked up the car, so it may well have overheated in the past).
2, The gearbox leaks oil. It actually was fine until I changed the oil to Redline 75w90.

I have put some Lucas leak stop in the engine for now...will see if the oil consumption eases.
I have ordered some Lucas gearbox stop leak...

Great thread, I have a soft spot for these and love that the Spider is being well used.

I've read through the thread, and apologies if I missed it, I didn't notice an update on the oil use/leaks - have they resolved themselves with the Lucas leak stop, or has more preventative maintenance been required?

[courty]

Little Bob said:

Great thread, I have a soft spot for these and love that the Spider is being well used.

I've read through the thread, and apologies if I missed it, I didn't notice an update on the oil use/leaks - have they resolved themselves with the Lucas leak stop, or has more preventative maintenance been required?

Well, the gearbox seals have pretty much healed up now it's running back on manufacturer spec. shell helix mineral 80w90, plus some lucas stop leak and Wynns seal softener for luck.
Before I went to Castle Coombe in May I changed the diff. oil again (the diff is limited slip and it got a very good work out coming out of the Snetterton hairpins. I noticed it had become a little noisy on slow maneuvers after that track day)...my! it was black after only about 15k miles. That now also has Shell Helix mineral 80w90 and has quietened down nicely.
I did a leak down test with compressed air on each engine cylinder on a warm engine. The air comes out of the dipstick, but the pressure loss is in the 'green' zone and evenly across all cylinders, so yeah, probably burns a bit through the piston rings.
I changed from cheap 20w50 mineral oil to Selenia HPX (semi-synthetic 20w50 for worn engines) and the oil use is noticeably less.
I have just changed the oil again ready for this euro trip and that is the last of the HPX as it seems it has been discontinued. I have some Valvoline VR1 20w50 to try on next change..and for top ups on this current useage.

[velocemitch]

I’ve always used Millers Classic Sport in mine. Should be available most decent stockists. It’s 20/50 semi synth.
My 1750 engine doesn’t seem to burn much, but I have persistent leak from the sump casing. My 2000 burns a bit, but doesn’t leak!
Can’t win.
Might experiment with the Lucas stuff for the leak, does it harm anything?

[psi310398]

Thanks for this thread.

A bittersweet read for me as I have recently had to get rid of my S4 2000 Veloce (also black), courtesy of the nice Mr Khan. (Highly amusing, not, that I have to lose the relatively clean fuel injected 2 litre engine but can keep a 4.2 litre E-type carburetted engine originally designed in the early forties without any issue.)

I really enjoyed that car and regularly drove to and from my house in Italy where it was well used on the mountain roads. I agree with the comments about the handling and the Nord is a lovely engine.

Apart from the flaky electrics, it was the S4 Bosch FI system that was the pain in the jacksie on this model, and I think the S3 also had its challenges, in this department. But, in general, running repairs were fairly straightforward with a fairly rudimentary tool kit and well chosen spares.
.

[Castrol for a knave]

courty said:

Little Bob said:

Great thread, I have a soft spot for these and love that the Spider is being well used.

I've read through the thread, and apologies if I missed it, I didn't notice an update on the oil use/leaks - have they resolved themselves with the Lucas leak stop, or has more preventative maintenance been required?

Well, the gearbox seals have pretty much healed up now it's running back on manufacturer spec. shell helix mineral 80w90, plus some lucas stop leak and Wynns seal softener for luck.
Before I went to Castle Coombe in May I changed the diff. oil again (the diff is limited slip and it got a very good work out coming out of the Snetterton hairpins. I noticed it had become a little noisy on slow maneuvers after that track day)...my! it was black after only about 15k miles. That now also has Shell Helix mineral 80w90 and has quietened down nicely.
I did a leak down test with compressed air on each engine cylinder on a warm engine. The air comes out of the dipstick, but the pressure loss is in the 'green' zone and evenly across all cylinders, so yeah, probably burns a bit through the piston rings.
I changed from cheap 20w50 mineral oil to Selenia HPX (semi-synthetic 20w50 for worn engines) and the oil use is noticeably less.
I have just changed the oil again ready for this euro trip and that is the last of the HPX as it seems it has been discontinued. I have some Valvoline VR1 20w50 to try on next change..and for top ups on this current useage.

I have Redline 80/90 in my box and it seems a little weepy. Also comments in Alfa world that it can be a bit aggressive for the bright metal. Will follow your lead and swap for Helix.

I use VR1. High ZDDP content is good for the cams. 928 owners swear by it, stops dry rattly start ups on both my Alfa and 928. Not had any leaks from it.

[courty]

velocemitch said:

I’ve always used Millers Classic Sport in mine. Should be available most decent stockists. It’s 20/50 semi synth.
My 1750 engine doesn’t seem to burn much, but I have persistent leak from the sump casing. My 2000 burns a bit, but doesn’t leak!
Can’t win.
Might experiment with the Lucas stuff for the leak, does it harm anything?

I don't think it will help with engine gasket leaks. To be honest it was a year or two back when I had the gearbox oil leak, this was caused by using redline synthetic 75w90 and rectified by going back to mineral 80w90 plus some Wynns and Lucas additives. For the engine I put in Lucas oil conditioner ( although this time I have just put HPX as I forgot, and it isn't using much so far).

[courty]

Castrol for a knave said:

I have Redline 80/90 in my box and it seems a little weepy. Also comments in Alfa world that it can be a bit aggressive for the bright metal. Will follow your lead and swap for Helix.

I use VR1. High ZDDP content is good for the cams. 928 owners swear by it, stops dry rattly start ups on both my Alfa and 928. Not had any leaks from it.

That is good to hear about the VR1, I will see how it goes...if not then the Millers Classic, but it is pricey.

[courty]

Photo taken from a Fiat Dino in France today.

[Mr Tidy]

courty said:

Photo taken from a Fiat Dino in France today.

70s Spiders just look so stunning.

But wow, a Fiat Dino - I'd love to see a photo of that too!

[courty]

Mr Tidy said:

70s Spiders just look so stunning.

But wow, a Fiat Dino - I'd love to see a photo of that too!

[courty]

[courty]

As promised here is some update from our three-week euro-tour mega trip just completed.

We left on Sunday 27th August and returned Saturday 16th September, We covered 3,800 miles (according to the Spider odometer) at average 29mpg. Of this only 3.5 hours were motorways (from Genoa to Brescia, and Arras to Calais), the rest were mainly rural roads. Some days we saw many more motorcycles than cars!

I will post a few pictures just to break it down a bit. My wife (of 30-odd years) said that she felt very safe in the Spider, but she certainly is very involved as a passenger and at times (when I wanted to press on) she wasn't happy with my driving; i.e. overtaking maneuvers and driving style through corners. Suffice to say, these trips are better done without nervous passengers, or with a mr plod driving style but hey-ho I think our marriage will survive lol. Our best day was travelling through the Vosges, where there was no other traffic and I took it extremely relaxed. I did offer her to drive, but the second gear has a very slow/ineffective synchromesh. She has driven the Spider on occasion, but doesn't really like to drive it, so she declined.

We did rural roads all the way down to Troyes in the Champagne. However, I would recommend peage for the northern France until closer to Reims as the D-roads in northern France a very tedious due to the population density. I think we spent more time in 30kmp/h with speed-humps...village after village. However, once into the interior of France the D-roads are very good. A proper map is required, otherwise the Sat-nav will put you on the main routes, which are busy with traffic. So a combo of map and sat-nav works well, with "way-points" to force the nav. to take the route you want.

First stop, south of Troyes and we met up with some, "12 in 12 Challenge" friends. This is an informal Alpine challenge organised by Tony Calo, and is great fun. Those travelling down from the north (Brits, Belgians etc.) meet up in the Champagne and take two days to travel down to Italy via the best driving roads. (Photo by Tony Calo around the Dijon area, from a Fiat Dino)

Edited by courty on Tuesday 19th September 16:20

Edited by courty on Tuesday 19th September 16:21

[courty]

After completing the, "Hanniball Run", a route down from the Champange to Italy which was interrupted by snow, so unfortunately we had to miss out Galibier, Isoard and Agnello passes (the highlights of the route) and make do with Mont Cenis (one can see from the photo is scenic enough) and Sestriere (complete waste of time due to traffic). Then on 30th August the "12 in 12 Challenge" , an informal jaunt across the French/Italian alps 300 miles of alpine cols in one day...brilliant!

[courty]

From there with our 12-in-12 friends we did a driving tour of Sardinia and Corsica.
Sardinia had much better roads (in the interior they are amazing with very little traffic) but Corsica has the scenery. Some of the Corsican coastal roads are incredibly twisty; mile after endless miles of turns! Sardinia:

[courty]

Corsica:

[courty]

Before we left I have messed around with the front toe setting, setting it to neutral toe. By Sardinia the inner edges of the front tyres were wearing, so I extended the outer steering arms by half a turn. This, in effect, due to the 105 cars having steering rods was too much, and so the rest of the trip the toe-in was way too much (5mm) and the outer edges wore out! Since returning home (and having access to my laser) I have reset the toe to 3mm overall).
Picture from a small village on Cap Corse, north of Bastia.

Edited by courty on Tuesday 19th September 16:57