Jaguar XJ-S V12 from the opposite end of Britain and a MG
Discussion
My wife, two daughters and I drove our 127,000 mile 2005 3.0 X-Type, bought when my 11 year old daughter was a baby as a stop-gap family car which we never got round to selling, 600 miles south to view and subsequently buy my first V12 on Saturday.
It hasn't had much use at all recently - having covered only 500 miles in the last 4 years and only 5000 miles since around 2003. It's in pretty good condition, but not perfect and was priced accordingly. I bought it. We stayed in a Premier Inn overnight and set off home with 2 cars yesterday morning.
Knowing these cars enjoy an unenviable reputation for reliability, coupled with the fact that it has seen very limited use recently and knowing there's often a good reason for that, I was perhaps a bit pessimistic about getting home under my own power. Indeed 8 years ago when I bought a TVR Cerbera 4.5 (another dream car of mine) I lost my clutch slave cylinder on the way home and arrived many hours overdue on the back of an AA lorry.
I stopped for fuel at a service station and felt great disappointment at having broken down when I saw the AA parked outside, then realised I hadn't called them and they weren't here for me like some automotive Grim Reaper.
Still, it felt like the vultures were circling. I'm pretty sure I was down a cylinder or perhaps 2 on the left bank. My wife told me it gave more visible eject from the left exhaust under power, and idling I could feel the gentlest little kick from the engine as it ran. The fuel gauge would only go up to 3/4 at first, but improved along the journey each top up, making its way up to 9/10s by Perth when I topped up for the final time.
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However, I made it home under my own power, and the car seemed to get better the further I drove.
It hasn't had much use at all recently - having covered only 500 miles in the last 4 years and only 5000 miles since around 2003. It's in pretty good condition, but not perfect and was priced accordingly. I bought it. We stayed in a Premier Inn overnight and set off home with 2 cars yesterday morning.
Knowing these cars enjoy an unenviable reputation for reliability, coupled with the fact that it has seen very limited use recently and knowing there's often a good reason for that, I was perhaps a bit pessimistic about getting home under my own power. Indeed 8 years ago when I bought a TVR Cerbera 4.5 (another dream car of mine) I lost my clutch slave cylinder on the way home and arrived many hours overdue on the back of an AA lorry.
I stopped for fuel at a service station and felt great disappointment at having broken down when I saw the AA parked outside, then realised I hadn't called them and they weren't here for me like some automotive Grim Reaper.
Still, it felt like the vultures were circling. I'm pretty sure I was down a cylinder or perhaps 2 on the left bank. My wife told me it gave more visible eject from the left exhaust under power, and idling I could feel the gentlest little kick from the engine as it ran. The fuel gauge would only go up to 3/4 at first, but improved along the journey each top up, making its way up to 9/10s by Perth when I topped up for the final time.
However, I made it home under my own power, and the car seemed to get better the further I drove.
Edited by jamieduff1981 on Monday 14th March 08:42
Edited by jamieduff1981 on Monday 14th March 08:45
Northbrook said:
Looks nice!
How many petrol stops?!
Thanks! I think we did five in total but apart from the first the rest were top ups in. The seller said he'd put £20 in already but the orange light flickered on under acceleration or braking. The first fillup cost £97 to brim which was about 75 litres.How many petrol stops?!
The gauge only went up to 3/4 and I had no real idea what it was drinking so we stopped again on the M40 after an hour and a bit to have breakfast and after 80 miles I got another 20 litres in to the 2-clicks. We drove another 123 miles and stopped somewhere in the Manchesterish sort of lattitudes and this time it took 30 litres to top off. At Carlisle we stopped again for lunch and I topped it off again. I think it took about 45 litres that time. We had to stop once more at Perth because our youngest needed the toilet and I got something like 35 litres in. Obviously it would have gone much further on a tank but with such limited use previously I thought the vacuum advance in the distributor is probably seized and mpg might be down to 15-16 in the cruise and since most of these cars are concentrated in the south and east of England where population density and hence road congestion is really bad compared to my usage I had wildly varying figures for what to expect. Also - I'm 40 now so can't drive a whole tankfull without needing a toilet break!
I'm not exactly sure why but my fuel consumption is usually very good when I go for a cruise. I think I'm fairly good at reading the road ahead and avoiding wasting energy. Nevertheless, I couldn't get near the book figure for a 56mph cruise. Not a chance!
Edited by jamieduff1981 on Monday 24th May 11:19
Edited by jamieduff1981 on Monday 14th March 08:47
Brave man .... !!
If you have not seen it, Harry's Garage on Youtube is a good source of knowledge for various cars: he currently has an XJ12C with a manual conversion in for restoration at a Jag specialist, and of more relevance to you, he has the V12 engine at another specialist for a rebuild ( apparently they prepare race engines !)
Harry also has done a European drive down to Monaco via The Route Napoleon in his XJS which is fascinating ( to me anyway as I have driven part of it !)
The videos are worth watching anyway ....but you may find the engine one more interesting.
Also there is The Car Wizard on US YouTube, who has a variety of cars, but he is transplanting a Jag V12 into an American 'classic' Chevy Nova (IIRC not entirely sure about that one !)
Anyway, that may be of interest as well.
Good luck with your Jag, that engine bay always looks daunting in photos with all the pipes etc on view.....very far from the 'shaved engine bay' that seem to be popular in eg KindigCustomIT retromods !!!
I am sure they V12 is not as complex as they seem.... but it looks a bit more involved that the 1970 Lotus Elan Ford Twincam that I had for about 12 years !!
Looking forward to the journey and keep the photos coming !
If you have not seen it, Harry's Garage on Youtube is a good source of knowledge for various cars: he currently has an XJ12C with a manual conversion in for restoration at a Jag specialist, and of more relevance to you, he has the V12 engine at another specialist for a rebuild ( apparently they prepare race engines !)
Harry also has done a European drive down to Monaco via The Route Napoleon in his XJS which is fascinating ( to me anyway as I have driven part of it !)
The videos are worth watching anyway ....but you may find the engine one more interesting.
Also there is The Car Wizard on US YouTube, who has a variety of cars, but he is transplanting a Jag V12 into an American 'classic' Chevy Nova (IIRC not entirely sure about that one !)
Anyway, that may be of interest as well.
Good luck with your Jag, that engine bay always looks daunting in photos with all the pipes etc on view.....very far from the 'shaved engine bay' that seem to be popular in eg KindigCustomIT retromods !!!
I am sure they V12 is not as complex as they seem.... but it looks a bit more involved that the 1970 Lotus Elan Ford Twincam that I had for about 12 years !!
Looking forward to the journey and keep the photos coming !
Thanks both of you!
I have been half-way planning this for months and watch the above mentioned channels as well as a useful one called "Living With A Classic" where the host gives lots of really useful practical tutorials on things like how to set up the throttles correctly or how to replace the injector hoses and seals. I already had a deposit on the car above when Harry's video showing the sealing face of his cylinder heads showed up and I was sat on the sofa thinking "What have you done Jamie?". Still, I'll burn that bridge when I come to it...
I'm away to go order a set of Teflon replacement throttle linkage spindle bushes which work properly and don't need gaskets to be disturbed to replace as well as a set of fuel injector hoses and seals. They're good at catching fire, these, when the old rubber hoses turn brittle and rupture. Common on TVRs too. In fact I dodged a bullet with my Cerbera when I happened to spot the tiniest little nick in a fuel hose above the engine just starting to weep fuel - I didn't drive it that day! Come to think of it, anyone driving an older car with rubber fuel hoses really ought to think about renewing them if they don't want a fire.
I have been half-way planning this for months and watch the above mentioned channels as well as a useful one called "Living With A Classic" where the host gives lots of really useful practical tutorials on things like how to set up the throttles correctly or how to replace the injector hoses and seals. I already had a deposit on the car above when Harry's video showing the sealing face of his cylinder heads showed up and I was sat on the sofa thinking "What have you done Jamie?". Still, I'll burn that bridge when I come to it...
I'm away to go order a set of Teflon replacement throttle linkage spindle bushes which work properly and don't need gaskets to be disturbed to replace as well as a set of fuel injector hoses and seals. They're good at catching fire, these, when the old rubber hoses turn brittle and rupture. Common on TVRs too. In fact I dodged a bullet with my Cerbera when I happened to spot the tiniest little nick in a fuel hose above the engine just starting to weep fuel - I didn't drive it that day! Come to think of it, anyone driving an older car with rubber fuel hoses really ought to think about renewing them if they don't want a fire.
Excellent choice of car! Not surprised it started improving over use, these do like to be used and they normally improve with use if they've been laid up. Worth checking if your injectors are all working, if you're going to change all the hoses etc. Mr Injector refurbs the lot including the fuel rail and its not chap but worth doing. Overall these are just lovely cars to drive and enjoy.
Lovely job.
I once took my XJ-S V12 (1988) from Somerset to Banff and back over a weekend. Fabulous way to travel and it made 20mpg on the whole run!
Check all your vacuum hoses and plug gaps, I also would have a look under the bonnet with the engine running at night.
If it looks like New Years Eve firework display your HT lead insulation is breaking down, simple job to replace all the HT leads and makes a huge difference to how they run.
Good luck with it, I'll be following this thread and living vicariously through you!
I once took my XJ-S V12 (1988) from Somerset to Banff and back over a weekend. Fabulous way to travel and it made 20mpg on the whole run!
Check all your vacuum hoses and plug gaps, I also would have a look under the bonnet with the engine running at night.
If it looks like New Years Eve firework display your HT lead insulation is breaking down, simple job to replace all the HT leads and makes a huge difference to how they run.
Good luck with it, I'll be following this thread and living vicariously through you!
Thanks everyone! I'll give an update on the car later today but in the mean time, if anyone has a lot of time to burn, for example if you're a passenger on a 600 mile drive today, here are two short videos my daughter recorded on our trip home on Sunday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS9cC3wIgP4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZRdCBfIG38
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oS9cC3wIgP4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZRdCBfIG38
Righto,
Confession time. My drive home was as stated about 600 miles long. I managed the first 599.5 of them but did ground out on a bump near home and I assumed it was the exhaust.
My dad came to see the car yesterday and we took it out for a drive, then I did it again (I'm a bit thick, apparently). Last night we took it out as a family and it started to get a bit loud and droney when running at constant speed, so I had a look underneath. The intermediate pipe for the right bank has a sleeve joint with a couple of clamps on it, and it's now hanging down, bent and blowing. Oops - but I can't find this sleeve joint on anyone else's exhaust photographs nor photos of replacement parts so I surmise it's been a minimum-cost repair which I've undone. That needs sorted because it's loud in a bad way.
Next, in keeping with the often-observed pattern of cars mostly getting money spent on them by new owners, I went on a spending spree. First up was a set of fuel injector hoses, seals, filters and end caps.
The Youtube channel "Living With a Classic" gives a good tutorial on how to fit these - specifically the injector parts themselves.
Next, I ordered a set of 12 spark plugs. The Jaguar part number ebc4021 nets the right ones.
I'd determined that the throttle linkages were all to pot also due to the common issue of spindle bushes falling apart. I've bought aftermarket items made from Teflon and which are of a tophat design retained by a clip. These can be fitted in seconds without having to dismantle the throttle linkages and disturbing gasket joints etc. They are quite expensive at 36Euro posted from the guy in Lithuania who makes them, but unlike the OE parts they should actually work properly and last a long time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv09DdZynZM
Lastly, whilst I've found that dim instrument cluster lights are a common complaint, I had none. Nothing whatsoever. Last night I removed the cluster, found the bulbs intact, verified that the fuses were all intact then turned my attention to the rheostat which dims the lights. These are truely bad items which excel only at varying resistance from somewhere between high and "may as well be open-circuit". Nevertheless I got my multimeter ready, unplugged the red/blue connection to the rheostat which is supposed to be the 12v supply to it, turned on the sidelights in preparation for testing the wire and the dashboard lit up. I haven't quite figured out what's going on there yet...
Confession time. My drive home was as stated about 600 miles long. I managed the first 599.5 of them but did ground out on a bump near home and I assumed it was the exhaust.
My dad came to see the car yesterday and we took it out for a drive, then I did it again (I'm a bit thick, apparently). Last night we took it out as a family and it started to get a bit loud and droney when running at constant speed, so I had a look underneath. The intermediate pipe for the right bank has a sleeve joint with a couple of clamps on it, and it's now hanging down, bent and blowing. Oops - but I can't find this sleeve joint on anyone else's exhaust photographs nor photos of replacement parts so I surmise it's been a minimum-cost repair which I've undone. That needs sorted because it's loud in a bad way.
Next, in keeping with the often-observed pattern of cars mostly getting money spent on them by new owners, I went on a spending spree. First up was a set of fuel injector hoses, seals, filters and end caps.
The Youtube channel "Living With a Classic" gives a good tutorial on how to fit these - specifically the injector parts themselves.
Next, I ordered a set of 12 spark plugs. The Jaguar part number ebc4021 nets the right ones.
I'd determined that the throttle linkages were all to pot also due to the common issue of spindle bushes falling apart. I've bought aftermarket items made from Teflon and which are of a tophat design retained by a clip. These can be fitted in seconds without having to dismantle the throttle linkages and disturbing gasket joints etc. They are quite expensive at 36Euro posted from the guy in Lithuania who makes them, but unlike the OE parts they should actually work properly and last a long time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv09DdZynZM
Lastly, whilst I've found that dim instrument cluster lights are a common complaint, I had none. Nothing whatsoever. Last night I removed the cluster, found the bulbs intact, verified that the fuses were all intact then turned my attention to the rheostat which dims the lights. These are truely bad items which excel only at varying resistance from somewhere between high and "may as well be open-circuit". Nevertheless I got my multimeter ready, unplugged the red/blue connection to the rheostat which is supposed to be the 12v supply to it, turned on the sidelights in preparation for testing the wire and the dashboard lit up. I haven't quite figured out what's going on there yet...
Edited by jamieduff1981 on Monday 14th March 08:50
They do like to catch their exhausts over bigger bumps (or on bumpy roads when the suspension bushes/shocks are getting a bit soft). You can get some lovely stainless exhaust parts for them though, and less restrictive ones which do sound very nice. The exhaust 'repair' on yours isn't quite normal spec as you know, but there is always a chance to upgrade a bit whilst you're there 
The dashboard lights will never be excellent, but its quite nice to drive at night without loads of bright lights, and one of the reasons why I've not converted one to LEDs as some people seem to.
The dashboard lights will never be excellent, but its quite nice to drive at night without loads of bright lights, and one of the reasons why I've not converted one to LEDs as some people seem to.
LanceRS said:
On my list of all time favourite cars and they drive surprisingly well given their age.
Run some of this stuff through it, works wonders on clearing through cars that have not been used.
Thanks! I agree about the drive. I set my expectations very low and thought this car was mostly just about ticking off a V12 from my list, but it has surprised me with just how bad it isn't to drive. I've got a bottle of Redex in the tank right now just to see if they help with the misfire (and the misfire is, I think, getting a little better).Run some of this stuff through it, works wonders on clearing through cars that have not been used.
Here's a short update covering the exhaust issues and noting that my instrument binnacle now lights up for confusing reasons!
https://youtu.be/x2QKt3bVz2Y
For those not inclined to click amateurish Youtube links, I seem to have a loud, boomy back box on the left side which I'd thought was being caused by the obvious blow on that dodgy joint on the right side.
I removed the instrument cluster to check out the non-functioning lights. The bulbs seemed good and the green plastic filters were still a nice green rather than brown shade. Having checked the fuses, I turned my attention to the rheostat which I've recently learned is a common problem source, I unplugged the red/blue 12v cable from it to test for power with my multimeter. As soon as I turned on the sidelights in this condition, the instruments lit up. No, I don't understand that either...
The wipers have, touch wood, been ok since that drive home. I've lubricated the door window runners with silicone as the glass stuck once or twice and they've been better since.
This morning I took the car to Turriff Tyres, a Powerflow exhaust centre to ask them what they could offer as a comparison with online pricing for stuff I'd have to then fit myself. The price for a stainless system seemed attractive but I hadn't planned to spend that yet so instead I'm going for their initial suggestion of "making the current exhaust better" by doing a proper job of those sleeved joints. It's being dropped off on Saturday morning for that and I can carry on with Plan A (Amended) of just giving it a proper service and re-set up and drive it for about a year and see how the car goes.
I have been studying the paperwork that came with the car including a letter by a previous owner (who's obituary we found online - he passed away 2 years ago aged 80). The car did almost all of its milage with few owners early on, and was acquired by a chap when its lady registered keeper and her husband emigrated to Canada 20 years ago. This chap then spent some money on the car, kept it in a heated garage but mostly kept it on SORN until 2016. The elderly gentleman who wrote this history was a personal acquaintance of heated-garage-man and, upon hearing that the owner had lost interest in the Jaguar and bought a big Harley Davidson which was to take pride of place in said heated garage, relegating the Jaguar to sit outside in the rain, bought the car mostly to prevent that happening but without any intention of using it being 77 years old himself at that point. He paid for some minimal recommissioning work, got an MOT on the car and offered it up for auction in 2017. It covered 500 miles since then.
Having now been under the car, the condition of it underneath is far better than I'd dared to hope given how this car was priced compared to others for sale. That's not to say there will not be expense along the way, but I am quite happy that my car is a pretty fair example and that I paid lower-end money for it that is otherwise what one would pay for an okay-ish 3.6 AJ6 example or a rougher 4.0 AJ16.
This morning I took the car to Turriff Tyres, a Powerflow exhaust centre to ask them what they could offer as a comparison with online pricing for stuff I'd have to then fit myself. The price for a stainless system seemed attractive but I hadn't planned to spend that yet so instead I'm going for their initial suggestion of "making the current exhaust better" by doing a proper job of those sleeved joints. It's being dropped off on Saturday morning for that and I can carry on with Plan A (Amended) of just giving it a proper service and re-set up and drive it for about a year and see how the car goes.
I have been studying the paperwork that came with the car including a letter by a previous owner (who's obituary we found online - he passed away 2 years ago aged 80). The car did almost all of its milage with few owners early on, and was acquired by a chap when its lady registered keeper and her husband emigrated to Canada 20 years ago. This chap then spent some money on the car, kept it in a heated garage but mostly kept it on SORN until 2016. The elderly gentleman who wrote this history was a personal acquaintance of heated-garage-man and, upon hearing that the owner had lost interest in the Jaguar and bought a big Harley Davidson which was to take pride of place in said heated garage, relegating the Jaguar to sit outside in the rain, bought the car mostly to prevent that happening but without any intention of using it being 77 years old himself at that point. He paid for some minimal recommissioning work, got an MOT on the car and offered it up for auction in 2017. It covered 500 miles since then.
Having now been under the car, the condition of it underneath is far better than I'd dared to hope given how this car was priced compared to others for sale. That's not to say there will not be expense along the way, but I am quite happy that my car is a pretty fair example and that I paid lower-end money for it that is otherwise what one would pay for an okay-ish 3.6 AJ6 example or a rougher 4.0 AJ16.
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