Finance to Freedom. Dacia Content, Viewer Discretion Advised
Discussion
bulldong said:
The biggest, and most successful lie that’s been spun to the majority of the population in the last 10-15 years is that financed cars make financial sense. Young people have been particularly caught out by it. If a 21 year old graduate takes out a £300/month lease and does that for 10 years, they’ve lost out on easy financial security in their 30s (earnings dependent).
£550 a month into mortgages or savings/investments is no small amount.
I’ve got no problem with financing when people have their finances in order but I cringe when I see what most people are financing and for how much every month.
Good choice op.
Yep agree. Recently a relative passed away on my wife's side of the family. He left a 2001 Vauxhall Corsa he bought new and put just 11,000 miles on. It's been garaged all its life. Within my wife's extended family the car was offered to all of the young drivers but none of them wanted it - they wanted new fiestas etc on their £xxx monthlies. £550 a month into mortgages or savings/investments is no small amount.
I’ve got no problem with financing when people have their finances in order but I cringe when I see what most people are financing and for how much every month.
Good choice op.
The executor knew I liked cars (i have 6 oldies haha) and gave it to me for free. I'm selling my 182k Mk4 Golf Tdi and will use this instead. I was pretty shocked that the 5 or 6 young adults in the family didn't want the car.
Edited by _Mja_ on Wednesday 16th June 16:09
_Mja_ said:
Yep agree. Recently a relative passed away on my wife's side of the family. He left a 2001 Vauxhall Corsa he bought new and put just 11,000 miles on. It's been garaged all its life. Within my wife's extended family the car was offered to all of the young drivers but none of them wanted it - they wanted new fiestas etc on their £xxx monthlies.
The executor knew I liked cars (i have 6 oldies haha) and gave it to me for free. I'm selling my 182k Mk4 Golf Tdi and will use this instead. I was pretty shocked that the 5 or 6 young adults in the family didn't want the car.
I'd jump at that chance, I'd run it for years. Incredible, isn't it? A vehicle is a vehicle!The executor knew I liked cars (i have 6 oldies haha) and gave it to me for free. I'm selling my 182k Mk4 Golf Tdi and will use this instead. I was pretty shocked that the 5 or 6 young adults in the family didn't want the car.
Edited by _Mja_ on Wednesday 16th June 16:09
bulldong said:
The biggest, and most successful lie that’s been spun to the majority of the population in the last 10-15 years is that financed cars make financial sense. Young people have been particularly caught out by it. If a 21 year old graduate takes out a £300/month lease and does that for 10 years, they’ve lost out on easy financial security in their 30s (earnings dependent).
£550 a month into mortgages or savings/investments is no small amount.
I’ve got no problem with financing when people have their finances in order but I cringe when I see what most people are financing and for how much every month.
Good choice op.
Totally agree.£550 a month into mortgages or savings/investments is no small amount.
I’ve got no problem with financing when people have their finances in order but I cringe when I see what most people are financing and for how much every month.
Good choice op.
I admire the OP's sensibilities and identify personally with a lot of what's being covered in the general conversation here. Cheaper and / or more basic motoring is just another sort of pleasure in the hobby we're fond of.
I wanted to put in a word, too, for long-term ownership - not necessarily of cheap vehicles. These could in fact be quite expensive to begin with, but when run for a long time spread the costs to a very reasonable level.
One such example is our VW Transporter with a camper conversion in unique spec, converted at 3 years old and now at 8.5 years. It was a major upfront cost - albeit from cash savings, not financed - and has since had no expense spared in maintenance and upgrades. If we were to sell today it would have cost us an average of £250 per month, which seems very reasonable for what it is in relation to an average lease deal.
I have also done the cheap motoring thing twice with superficially great older cars (11 & 12 years old at the time). Unfortunately neither were a great success, despite being very satisfying to renovate. I have since resolved that the long-term buy and hold model works best for me, albeit I've been fairly unsuccessful at doing this with cars in the past because I've swapped them too soon. Fingers crossed for my current cash-bough Audi S3, which I can at least say is a sort of car I return to a lot.
So, good on you OP with the new approach. I do wonder whether the novelty may wear of though... (I predict at least one more exciting car enters the collection within 12 months).
I wanted to put in a word, too, for long-term ownership - not necessarily of cheap vehicles. These could in fact be quite expensive to begin with, but when run for a long time spread the costs to a very reasonable level.
One such example is our VW Transporter with a camper conversion in unique spec, converted at 3 years old and now at 8.5 years. It was a major upfront cost - albeit from cash savings, not financed - and has since had no expense spared in maintenance and upgrades. If we were to sell today it would have cost us an average of £250 per month, which seems very reasonable for what it is in relation to an average lease deal.
I have also done the cheap motoring thing twice with superficially great older cars (11 & 12 years old at the time). Unfortunately neither were a great success, despite being very satisfying to renovate. I have since resolved that the long-term buy and hold model works best for me, albeit I've been fairly unsuccessful at doing this with cars in the past because I've swapped them too soon. Fingers crossed for my current cash-bough Audi S3, which I can at least say is a sort of car I return to a lot.
So, good on you OP with the new approach. I do wonder whether the novelty may wear of though... (I predict at least one more exciting car enters the collection within 12 months).
The Cardinal said:
I wanted to put in a word, too, for long-term ownership - not necessarily of cheap vehicles. These could in fact be quite expensive to begin with, but when run for a long time spread the costs to a very reasonable level.
Absolutely. It's invariably time, money and hassle changing cars. Best to take the buy right and buy once approach.I've had my current XJ8 for nearly 12 years and more than doubled the mileage on it. Apart from MOTs and a couple of alignment checks it's never been anywhere near a garage in all that time and cost me nothing except consumables and a couple of sets of second hand tyres.
Values of good examples are on a gentle upward slope now it's come into the younger end of the Classic market and looking at asking prices and auction results I could certainly sell it for more than I paid for it.
I think my point was more about the irresponsible nature of it and that nobody thinks twice about £300-500 month car payments and the damage it can do early on to ones financial future.
I’ll admit that one of our cars was bought with a loan but I can afford to write a cheque for it multiple times over if I want to and the bank gave me a good rate so why not?
I’m not against anyone doing what they want with their cash, that’s up to them. But it’s the 21-35 year old, not got a pot to piss in after expenses, living in a rental house, unable to create wealth because he’s tied to “only” £300-500 a month for a car that he doesn’t even look back at when he gets out of it and walks away, that makes me cringe.
£300/month turns quickly into £50k over ten years - which coming into your 30s you should aim to have that minimum.
You’re not going to avoid depreciation unless you drive sheds, which brings with it a whole new level of pain up the ass.
Buying a transporter for cash, or an XJ8 for cash suggests a certain level of financial maturity - those are not the people I’m talking about.
As I said, people are entitled to do what they like with their own money but if you want my advice, until your mortgage is paid off, don’t lease a car. If you need to finance a car, get a loan and buy it.
I’m 34, if that’s worth anything, and I leased a car in my 20s once when I had a huge salary. Never ever again.
I’ll admit that one of our cars was bought with a loan but I can afford to write a cheque for it multiple times over if I want to and the bank gave me a good rate so why not?
I’m not against anyone doing what they want with their cash, that’s up to them. But it’s the 21-35 year old, not got a pot to piss in after expenses, living in a rental house, unable to create wealth because he’s tied to “only” £300-500 a month for a car that he doesn’t even look back at when he gets out of it and walks away, that makes me cringe.
£300/month turns quickly into £50k over ten years - which coming into your 30s you should aim to have that minimum.
You’re not going to avoid depreciation unless you drive sheds, which brings with it a whole new level of pain up the ass.
Buying a transporter for cash, or an XJ8 for cash suggests a certain level of financial maturity - those are not the people I’m talking about.
As I said, people are entitled to do what they like with their own money but if you want my advice, until your mortgage is paid off, don’t lease a car. If you need to finance a car, get a loan and buy it.
I’m 34, if that’s worth anything, and I leased a car in my 20s once when I had a huge salary. Never ever again.
croyde said:
Just done that calculation on my e36 that I bought in 1999 and sold earlier this year only due to the expanded ULEZ.
Shame as it was still working hard as my daily and a pleasure to drive.
On purchase and selling price only, it has lost me £70 a month.
That is still £18.5k without fuel insurance repairs, etc.Shame as it was still working hard as my daily and a pleasure to drive.
On purchase and selling price only, it has lost me £70 a month.
I don't think that's anything to write home about. For instance I bought a 2001 Volvo V70 in 2009 for £1500. It would sell easily for £500 today. Or if you prefer £6.95 depreciation a month based on your maths.
Tyre Smoke said:
croyde said:
Just done that calculation on my e36 that I bought in 1999 and sold earlier this year only due to the expanded ULEZ.
Shame as it was still working hard as my daily and a pleasure to drive.
On purchase and selling price only, it has lost me £70 a month.
That is still £18.5k without fuel insurance repairs, etc.Shame as it was still working hard as my daily and a pleasure to drive.
On purchase and selling price only, it has lost me £70 a month.
I don't think that's anything to write home about. For instance I bought a 2001 Volvo V70 in 2009 for £1500. It would sell easily for £500 today. Or if you prefer £6.95 depreciation a month based on your maths.
I bought a 1999 Mercury Grand Marquis for £3k, owned it a year and sold it for £4500. Thus including insurance, tax and petrol at 12mpg it cost me £0 a month
ETA My worst was a brand new Disco 3. Lost over £20k in 3.5 years.
£500 a month not including fuel, insurance etc. That was back starting 2005.
Edited by croyde on Thursday 17th June 15:39
Financing is indeed corrosive, unless used appropriately. We had the money to buy our second car but chose to finance as we wanted to keep that cash back for other things, our monthly disposable income is good enough for the repayments and we're still saving monthly on top.
It's the poor beautician that my wife sees occasionally who still lives with her parents but has financed her second had Pug 208, that has been sold a lie. Better a cheap runabout than something nearly new which ties you into a cycle of not being able to save, and therefore having to rely on constant refinancings.
Love the Dacia, great work OP. I love a good honest machine like that and respect the approach to finding joy in anything automotive - anything with an engine can be fun (except my old 1998 1.8 Audi A4, that was a joyless boring box).
It's the poor beautician that my wife sees occasionally who still lives with her parents but has financed her second had Pug 208, that has been sold a lie. Better a cheap runabout than something nearly new which ties you into a cycle of not being able to save, and therefore having to rely on constant refinancings.
Love the Dacia, great work OP. I love a good honest machine like that and respect the approach to finding joy in anything automotive - anything with an engine can be fun (except my old 1998 1.8 Audi A4, that was a joyless boring box).
With both cars ticking along nicely, I popped the kettle on and watched as my mechanic changed a snapped coilover spring on the black fiesta. A really nice chap on a Facebook group posted me a spare spring for shipping cost only. It is such a great wee car but unfortunately it does need rust repair. It has had a fair bit of money spent on it during my ownership such as AP coilovers, Milltek exhaust and Focus ST170 brakes.
I know the right thing to do is sell it as even when it had MOT, the car spent a large amount of time gathering dust at the bottom of the drive. I do wonder what I would be best to do, sell as is on ebay, or split the parts and sell separately then scrap the shell? Scrapping it does seem a shame as apart from the rust and bodywork, it runs, handles and stops well.
It has 4 new Avon tyres which I will be swapping onto my wife's silver fiesta this week.
Opinions welcome on what I should do with it.
My daughter decided to abandon some orange juice on the rear seats. Just the excuse I needed to give the Sandero a quick hoover and a going over with the carpet cleaner. The seats came up great and certainly smell a lot better.
I know the right thing to do is sell it as even when it had MOT, the car spent a large amount of time gathering dust at the bottom of the drive. I do wonder what I would be best to do, sell as is on ebay, or split the parts and sell separately then scrap the shell? Scrapping it does seem a shame as apart from the rust and bodywork, it runs, handles and stops well.
It has 4 new Avon tyres which I will be swapping onto my wife's silver fiesta this week.
Opinions welcome on what I should do with it.
My daughter decided to abandon some orange juice on the rear seats. Just the excuse I needed to give the Sandero a quick hoover and a going over with the carpet cleaner. The seats came up great and certainly smell a lot better.
Depends what you want out of the fiesta - is it a car you want to keep and enjoy or is it best out of your hair. I note you had a mechanic change a coil spring so assume the welding work is not going to be done by yourself and therefore quite costly?Bodywork is pricey.
Alternatively, and this is what I would do, if you want to truly immerse yourself out of finance and into the world of older cars you do need mechanical skills. This car is perfect to learn those and it's always useful to have a spare car if you're working on one of your other cars. Less pressure = more enjoyment. You can pick MOT failure bargains that only needed some brakes and a small patch of welding. You can even fix and flip them back for a profit - a car with MOT is worth a lot more than one without. Most people see a car with MOT as a bench mark that a car is good which is great if you want to flip it to joe public however to me it is an absolute minimum standard.
Mechanically i've learnt to do everything except rebuild an engine at this stage. I've also learnt to weld and am confidence working on floor pans etc. I am about to embark on the most challenging resto soon which is a mk2 golf that will need arches, valances, scuttle i.e. bits that your can actually see.
Alternatively, and this is what I would do, if you want to truly immerse yourself out of finance and into the world of older cars you do need mechanical skills. This car is perfect to learn those and it's always useful to have a spare car if you're working on one of your other cars. Less pressure = more enjoyment. You can pick MOT failure bargains that only needed some brakes and a small patch of welding. You can even fix and flip them back for a profit - a car with MOT is worth a lot more than one without. Most people see a car with MOT as a bench mark that a car is good which is great if you want to flip it to joe public however to me it is an absolute minimum standard.
Mechanically i've learnt to do everything except rebuild an engine at this stage. I've also learnt to weld and am confidence working on floor pans etc. I am about to embark on the most challenging resto soon which is a mk2 golf that will need arches, valances, scuttle i.e. bits that your can actually see.
l've enjoyed reading this for several reasons.
First is I admire the fact that you (OP) have given in and just decided to sell up and buy what you can for cash without any finance.
The second reason is that I would love to do something like this myself but I'm torn between having a newish reliable car for long journeys or running the risk of having no dept but perhaps in a less reliable car. I like keeping my cars clean and tidy but I'm not a home mechanic.
I drive over 20k miles a year so for me the reliability is the key thing but do I really need a 6 series? I know the answer to that and do wish I had kept my 330d Touring.
My wife has a Q5 which we bought when it was 5 months old and is now paid for. They only thing that she would change it for is an X3 M40i so it will stay for a while, at least until the 6 series is paid for.
Keep posting as I would like to know how you get on with your new cars.
First is I admire the fact that you (OP) have given in and just decided to sell up and buy what you can for cash without any finance.
The second reason is that I would love to do something like this myself but I'm torn between having a newish reliable car for long journeys or running the risk of having no dept but perhaps in a less reliable car. I like keeping my cars clean and tidy but I'm not a home mechanic.
I drive over 20k miles a year so for me the reliability is the key thing but do I really need a 6 series? I know the answer to that and do wish I had kept my 330d Touring.
My wife has a Q5 which we bought when it was 5 months old and is now paid for. They only thing that she would change it for is an X3 M40i so it will stay for a while, at least until the 6 series is paid for.
Keep posting as I would like to know how you get on with your new cars.
_Mja_ said:
Depends what you want out of the fiesta - is it a car you want to keep and enjoy or is it best out of your hair. I note you had a mechanic change a coil spring so assume the welding work is not going to be done by yourself and therefore quite costly?Bodywork is pricey.
Alternatively, and this is what I would do, if you want to truly immerse yourself out of finance and into the world of older cars you do need mechanical skills. This car is perfect to learn those and it's always useful to have a spare car if you're working on one of your other cars. Less pressure = more enjoyment. You can pick MOT failure bargains that only needed some brakes and a small patch of welding. You can even fix and flip them back for a profit - a car with MOT is worth a lot more than one without. Most people see a car with MOT as a bench mark that a car is good which is great if you want to flip it to joe public however to me it is an absolute minimum standard.
Mechanically i've learnt to do everything except rebuild an engine at this stage. I've also learnt to weld and am confidence working on floor pans etc. I am about to embark on the most challenging resto soon which is a mk2 golf that will need arches, valances, scuttle i.e. bits that your can actually see.
Thank you for the reply. I don't have a burning desire to get too hands on with my cars. I am comfortable with a minor service and giving them a clean. I am also happy to pay a fair price to my local mechanic, knowing it is keeping him ticking over instead of some corporate, glass fronted garage. Alternatively, and this is what I would do, if you want to truly immerse yourself out of finance and into the world of older cars you do need mechanical skills. This car is perfect to learn those and it's always useful to have a spare car if you're working on one of your other cars. Less pressure = more enjoyment. You can pick MOT failure bargains that only needed some brakes and a small patch of welding. You can even fix and flip them back for a profit - a car with MOT is worth a lot more than one without. Most people see a car with MOT as a bench mark that a car is good which is great if you want to flip it to joe public however to me it is an absolute minimum standard.
Mechanically i've learnt to do everything except rebuild an engine at this stage. I've also learnt to weld and am confidence working on floor pans etc. I am about to embark on the most challenging resto soon which is a mk2 golf that will need arches, valances, scuttle i.e. bits that your can actually see.
I helped a friend to weld some areas on his barn. That was enough of a taster for me.
I am leaning towards a no reserve ebay and hope a normal person will take it on instead of breaking it. Finding normal people bidding on ebay is a challenge of its own I imagine.
curvature said:
l've enjoyed reading this for several reasons.
First is I admire the fact that you (OP) have given in and just decided to sell up and buy what you can for cash without any finance.
The second reason is that I would love to do something like this myself but I'm torn between having a newish reliable car for long journeys or running the risk of having no dept but perhaps in a less reliable car. I like keeping my cars clean and tidy but I'm not a home mechanic.
I drive over 20k miles a year so for me the reliability is the key thing but do I really need a 6 series? I know the answer to that and do wish I had kept my 330d Touring.
My wife has a Q5 which we bought when it was 5 months old and is now paid for. They only thing that she would change it for is an X3 M40i so it will stay for a while, at least until the 6 series is paid for.
Keep posting as I would like to know how you get on with your new cars.
For me it wasn't out of any sort of impending financial doom so it took a bit of pondering. My Focus had all sorts of issues with suspension, a leaking front window and other annoying things. I was paying over £300 a month for something that wasn't without fault. First is I admire the fact that you (OP) have given in and just decided to sell up and buy what you can for cash without any finance.
The second reason is that I would love to do something like this myself but I'm torn between having a newish reliable car for long journeys or running the risk of having no dept but perhaps in a less reliable car. I like keeping my cars clean and tidy but I'm not a home mechanic.
I drive over 20k miles a year so for me the reliability is the key thing but do I really need a 6 series? I know the answer to that and do wish I had kept my 330d Touring.
My wife has a Q5 which we bought when it was 5 months old and is now paid for. They only thing that she would change it for is an X3 M40i so it will stay for a while, at least until the 6 series is paid for.
Keep posting as I would like to know how you get on with your new cars.
Now I can be more at peace paying for ongoing car repairs as the cars are paid for and I don't have that frustration of new and supposedly reliable cars throwing issues.
Another positive has been not worrying about the car getting stolen, vandalised or damaged in car parks. Being Mr invisible is actually quite nice. I initially struggled with the perceived image issue, not having a 'cool' car. Now I have had time to think about it, I used to have an orange car, everybody must have thought I was a prat anyway.
Once the 6 series is paid for, you will have two really nice cars owned outright. Just pause before heading out to the forecourts. I imagine when I pay off my mortgage, I won't rush out to immediately get another mortgage for a newer house. For 15 years I have been on that rinse and repeat with my cars.
Good read OP, not only about the cars but also your monthly savings going from finance to owning cars albeit used models. I have bought a couple of new cars in the past and paid them off on HP which at the time seemed the best way to go, with prices of cars being so high now the amount you'd pay to own the car is way more than 10 or so years ago.
One thing my partner and I have both steered towards is older but high spec models that we can own. I drive a 2008 S Class as my daily car and my other half has a 2011 ML. Older cars but great condition and lovely to drive without a monthly expense. Although I can't claim my S is entirely sensible for running costs.
In reference to to some of the comments about younger drivers, my cousin is a perfect example. At 21 he 'bought' his first car, a brand new Seat Ibiza. He hadn't passed his test at the time but was definitely nearly there. Nearly three years later having injured himself, his theory test expiring and Covid he's been paying for a car which has done about 500 miles and he'll hand back at four years old. What an absolute waste of money.
Anyway OP, I like your choice of cars and I'm loving the Puma powered ZS! I did quite a lot of driving in a 2001 ZS back in about 2003-2005 and it was excellent fun. Big fan of them.
One thing my partner and I have both steered towards is older but high spec models that we can own. I drive a 2008 S Class as my daily car and my other half has a 2011 ML. Older cars but great condition and lovely to drive without a monthly expense. Although I can't claim my S is entirely sensible for running costs.
In reference to to some of the comments about younger drivers, my cousin is a perfect example. At 21 he 'bought' his first car, a brand new Seat Ibiza. He hadn't passed his test at the time but was definitely nearly there. Nearly three years later having injured himself, his theory test expiring and Covid he's been paying for a car which has done about 500 miles and he'll hand back at four years old. What an absolute waste of money.
Anyway OP, I like your choice of cars and I'm loving the Puma powered ZS! I did quite a lot of driving in a 2001 ZS back in about 2003-2005 and it was excellent fun. Big fan of them.
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