Inspired or idiotic? "Cheap" V8 Vantage
Discussion
This is how bad a rear subframe can get - both Bamford Rose and DAE have said it is one of the worst they've seen....
The good news appears to be that everything has come off the subframe without snapping / shearing / falling apart. My Bamford Rose quote included replacing just about everything that was attached to the subframe, but it looks like I've got away with a few nuts and bolts.
The Nitron shocks re-use the OE springs, top mounts and dust covers, but annoyingly, one of my front springs is cracked. I was faced with adding another £1k+ to the bill with Velocity AP progressive-wound springs, but PH has answered a call for help and I've located a decent pair of secondhand springs, so that's a few hundred that can be held back for the clutch replacement.
The good news appears to be that everything has come off the subframe without snapping / shearing / falling apart. My Bamford Rose quote included replacing just about everything that was attached to the subframe, but it looks like I've got away with a few nuts and bolts.
The Nitron shocks re-use the OE springs, top mounts and dust covers, but annoyingly, one of my front springs is cracked. I was faced with adding another £1k+ to the bill with Velocity AP progressive-wound springs, but PH has answered a call for help and I've located a decent pair of secondhand springs, so that's a few hundred that can be held back for the clutch replacement.
You are going to love the Nitrons. I did a trip up to Wales in mine last week and it reaffirmed everything I love about how it drives on that suspension. I don’t feel like it’s compromised it’s cruising abilities at all but when you get to fun section of twisting and undulating roads it’s fantastic.
HeWhoDaresRoy said:
Is this just a case of cleaning it up and protecting or does it need an actual repair?
Surprisingly, I'm told it will be fine after a bead blast and powder coating. Although it looks awful, the majority of the flaking is simply the old paint / powder coating. The metal underneath is solid, but clearly quite brown...olv said:
You are going to love the Nitrons. I did a trip up to Wales in mine last week and it reaffirmed everything I love about how it drives on that suspension. I don’t feel like it’s compromised it’s cruising abilities at all but when you get to fun section of twisting and undulating roads it’s fantastic.
I can't fail to be impressed - the old shocks were pretty bad - they wallowed quite badly when 'making progress' and they really struggled over sharp bumps. Even cats eyes would sometimes get a shudder from the chassis as the minimal damping struggled to control the wheels.One side of me wanted to go for the progressive-wound springs, as well as the Nitron dampers, but I need to control the costs. Thanks to IainWhy, I've just kept the bill down by about £800, which is very welcome. I never felt the spring rates were particularly wrong on the car, it was just the awful damping control.
Well, this is going to hurt a bit....
If you care to look back at my OP, you'll see that I went in with my eyes open, but my fingers crossed. I knew the rear subframe was a bit flaky and I knew it was on its original dampers (which by all accounts, were a bit rubbish even when they were new).
I was quite prepared for £1k+ a year general maintenance (on top of tax, insurance and fuel) and I was ready for a big bill to cover the suspension and subframe. I had put £10k to one side, 'just in case', so I wouldn't have to resort to borrowing when the inevitable 'big one' arrived.
I've had very nearly two years of relatively cheap Aston ownership and this has lulled me into a comfort zone where I thought I'd got away with it. However a recent service pointed out that I absolutely hadn't got away with it and the work needed doing - NOW. I thought I already knew what needed doing, so I thought I was ready...
The plan was a subframe removal and refurb, together with new Nitron road shocks, re-using my original springs and topmounts in order to save a few quid. Expected bill about £6.5k to £7k. However, I hadn't bargained on finding other bits as the work progressed:
So now I'm looking at the thick end of £10k to put the car right which is going to empty the 'just in case' cash reserve. I'll be honest, I thought (briefly) about cutting my losses and selling it. It's probably worth £20k in bits, so even with some big jobs required, I reckon I could have got up to £25k for it, which would have meant I'd paid £5k for two years driving in an Aston - not too bad.
I thought that throwing the sale proceeds of the car, plus the £10k reserve fund would get me into a newer, faster 4.7, but I was warned that buying a newer car was no guarantee of it being in wonderful condition. Even a car that was five years younger and with half the miles could still need a clutch, suspension and subframe.
The thing is, I really like the car, so I've decided its a keeper and its worth chucking the money at. The huge bill now will probably mean no more biggies for another few years (other than maybe the clutch, but I can deal with that when / if it happens).
So - after the nasty piccies above, something a little easier on the eye:
Refurbed subframe:
New springs:
If you care to look back at my OP, you'll see that I went in with my eyes open, but my fingers crossed. I knew the rear subframe was a bit flaky and I knew it was on its original dampers (which by all accounts, were a bit rubbish even when they were new).
I was quite prepared for £1k+ a year general maintenance (on top of tax, insurance and fuel) and I was ready for a big bill to cover the suspension and subframe. I had put £10k to one side, 'just in case', so I wouldn't have to resort to borrowing when the inevitable 'big one' arrived.
I've had very nearly two years of relatively cheap Aston ownership and this has lulled me into a comfort zone where I thought I'd got away with it. However a recent service pointed out that I absolutely hadn't got away with it and the work needed doing - NOW. I thought I already knew what needed doing, so I thought I was ready...
The plan was a subframe removal and refurb, together with new Nitron road shocks, re-using my original springs and topmounts in order to save a few quid. Expected bill about £6.5k to £7k. However, I hadn't bargained on finding other bits as the work progressed:
- Top rear wishbones bushes are shot - £600-ish for PU bushes, or just under £1k for new OE wishbones
- One front spring was cracked and I couldn't find any secondhand replacements, so I'm having new Nitron springs too - another £700
- All the gearbox oil cooler pipes are rusty - another £1k
- Rear discs are beyond saving, so that's new rear discs and pads - another £900 (although to be fair, I've gone for two-piece discs to match the fronts - I could probably have saved a few hundred by going for aftermarket one-piece)
So now I'm looking at the thick end of £10k to put the car right which is going to empty the 'just in case' cash reserve. I'll be honest, I thought (briefly) about cutting my losses and selling it. It's probably worth £20k in bits, so even with some big jobs required, I reckon I could have got up to £25k for it, which would have meant I'd paid £5k for two years driving in an Aston - not too bad.
I thought that throwing the sale proceeds of the car, plus the £10k reserve fund would get me into a newer, faster 4.7, but I was warned that buying a newer car was no guarantee of it being in wonderful condition. Even a car that was five years younger and with half the miles could still need a clutch, suspension and subframe.
The thing is, I really like the car, so I've decided its a keeper and its worth chucking the money at. The huge bill now will probably mean no more biggies for another few years (other than maybe the clutch, but I can deal with that when / if it happens).
So - after the nasty piccies above, something a little easier on the eye:
Refurbed subframe:
New springs:
Good to hear you';re sticking wiht it - I'm a firm beliver in better the devil you know when it comes to cars!
Thanks for posting the costs and details up, threads like yours have been nudging me into considering this type of car (not Aston specifically, but era and 2 seater sportiness...) and I just think I'll have to hold off for now, and live vicariously through you.
The next two years should be good! Any further rustproofing or treatment on the cards once its all back together?
Thanks for posting the costs and details up, threads like yours have been nudging me into considering this type of car (not Aston specifically, but era and 2 seater sportiness...) and I just think I'll have to hold off for now, and live vicariously through you.
The next two years should be good! Any further rustproofing or treatment on the cards once its all back together?
Spinakerr said:
Any further rustproofing or treatment on the cards once its all back together?
There's some corrosion on the bottom edge of the (aluminium) door that I'll get sorted at some point, but it can't be seen from the outside, so it's not urgent.One side of me wants to put it away in the garage and keep it away from the rain, but it just isn't pristine enough to be treated like that. I'm just going to drive it and enjoy it.
Edited by Nigel_O on Sunday 15th October 00:16
busengineer said:
Plus, as you said you knew the suspension was tired when you bought it so you should feel a mini transformation too
On smooth roads, driving at 7/10 or less, it was fairly acceptable. The weight distribution and mechanical grip (running PS4S) meant that it went round corners pretty well. However, as soon as I went above 7/10 or threw in a few bumps or undulations (or even a catseye), it got quite unruly, kicking back and jumping off line. It was bad enough that on a particularly entertaining trip across North Wales on a mountain road I'd never driven before, I couldn't shake off a very well-pedalled VW Golf (not an R), whose driver clearly knew the roads intimately.I'm hoping that the car will still be tolerable in 'GT mode' - just wafting around at under 5/10, but it will now be able to cope with 10/10 without threatening to spit me into the scenery.
Hitch said:
There must come a time when these turn the corner and start to appreciate. They look so good, are completely visceral and have a proper manual driving experience.
Hopefully the work you are doing now should see you into that curve and reduce future risk.
The "problem" is that they were too good in some ways. One of the most wonderful designs of modern times, the Aston badge on the nose, useable boot and comfortable enough to be a great day to day car, enough performance and "that" sound. All at a reasonable price. They sold too many for it to ever see anything more than a modest uptick IMHO.Hopefully the work you are doing now should see you into that curve and reduce future risk.
Nigel_O said:
I'm hoping that the car will still be tolerable in 'GT mode' - just wafting around at under 5/10, but it will now be able to cope with 10/10 without threatening to spit me into the scenery.
It absolutely will be fine, better if anything because bumps or holes in the road surface are dealt with much better. So even if it is a little stiffer overall (mine are at 50%, the DAE recommended) the whole car is just more composed. I don’t find it tiresome at all for cruising about. It’s the weight of the clutch and steering that I find make it a more tiresome GT when you can’t really be bothered! It will also look miles better with a little drop in the ride height. Obviously the bill is going to sting, it’s a lot of cash relative to the value, but some of these things are consumables and other bits are once every 15+ years, you’re just the unfortunate (or fortunate) custodian of it at the moment. I agree with your approach though, it could be a 997 and need an engine, or a plethora of other exotica that could throw a big bill or two. I think you’ll be pleased to have it back knowing you’ve got a lovely solid car that’s a totally known entity to you
Damn - best-laid plans and all that....
I was due to collect the car from DAE next Wednesday - I've booked my little Panda 4x4 into a bodyshop in Birmingham on the same day, so I can jump straight on the train to Taunton.
However, the alloy bells for the new two-piece rear discs haven't come back from the anodisers, so they probably won't get to DAE in time to be fitted before I collect. No problem, I thought - I'll get DAE to re-fit the old discs and pads just to get me home, then I'll fit the new discs when they turn up.
Turns out the old discs were an absolute 'mare to get off and had to be persuaded with a big hammer. There's no way they are going back on, so the car is stranded until the discs get there. Ar$e.... I've got next week off work to enjoy some Aston driving with shiny new bits - looks like I'll be cleaning windows and painting woodwork instead..
Talking of shiny bits - refurbed subframe fitted, with new gearbox oil cooler pipes:
New suspension fitted
I was due to collect the car from DAE next Wednesday - I've booked my little Panda 4x4 into a bodyshop in Birmingham on the same day, so I can jump straight on the train to Taunton.
However, the alloy bells for the new two-piece rear discs haven't come back from the anodisers, so they probably won't get to DAE in time to be fitted before I collect. No problem, I thought - I'll get DAE to re-fit the old discs and pads just to get me home, then I'll fit the new discs when they turn up.
Turns out the old discs were an absolute 'mare to get off and had to be persuaded with a big hammer. There's no way they are going back on, so the car is stranded until the discs get there. Ar$e.... I've got next week off work to enjoy some Aston driving with shiny new bits - looks like I'll be cleaning windows and painting woodwork instead..
Talking of shiny bits - refurbed subframe fitted, with new gearbox oil cooler pipes:
New suspension fitted
Andy665 said:
Absolutely the right decision to spend (invest) in what you already have - you know what you are working with and could not guarantee the same would be waiting for you with a younger 4.7
That was exactly the point that James Appleby made to me. Using my car-fixing fund, I could spend £40k or even £50k (with some borrowing) on a much newer and much lower mileage 4.7 and STILL need a subframe, clutch and suspension within 12 months (although the latter would be less likely with a 4.7 on OE Billies). I also know its extremely rare, but I hear more stories of 4.7 engine problems than I do about 4.3s.I can now drive around until I'm too old to get in or out of the car in the knowledge that it's basically sound underneath. I'm sure some other bits will wear out or break, but that's just incidental stuff.
I just want it back so that I can drive it a bit - I've done 200 miles since it went to Bamford Rose in mid August and I'm getting a bit bored of 60bhp of Panda 4x4...
Edited by Nigel_O on Sunday 15th October 00:18
Shame car is delayed, but it’ll be lovely when you get it back.
Did you consider BC Racing coilovers at all instead of the Nitrons? They seem to be more popular state-side, I’ve noticed and are a fair bit cheaper. I’ve had Nitrons on a TVR Cerbera and thought they were great, but also have BC Racing on car currently and like those too. Nitron seem to be the go-to for aftermarket Aston suspension - just wondering if there’s a specific reason.
Did you consider BC Racing coilovers at all instead of the Nitrons? They seem to be more popular state-side, I’ve noticed and are a fair bit cheaper. I’ve had Nitrons on a TVR Cerbera and thought they were great, but also have BC Racing on car currently and like those too. Nitron seem to be the go-to for aftermarket Aston suspension - just wondering if there’s a specific reason.
HeWhoDaresRoy said:
Did you consider BC Racing coilovers at all instead of the Nitrons?
Yes, I did. I particularly like that ride height is independent to spring preload and I also liked that they were only about £1400, rather than the near-£3k I’ve spent on Nitrons.I wasn’t sure about increased NVH due to the solid top mounts though- the Nitrons re-use the OE top mounts.
However, I haven’t read any feedback on BC from Aston owners and I’ve had LOTS of positive feedback on the Nitrons. I can’t afford to do this twice, so I played safe.
Edited by Nigel_O on Saturday 23 September 09:35
Nigel_O said:
Yes, I did. I particularly like that ride height is independent to spring preload and I also liked that they were only about £1400, rather than the near-£3k I’ve spent on Nitrons.
I wasn’t sure about increased NVH due to the solid top mounts though- the Nitrons re-use the OE top mounts.
However, I haven’t read any feedback on BC from Aston owners and I’ve had LOTS of positive feedback on the Nitrons. I can’t afford to do this twice, so I played safe.
Nice one, thanks for the insight. Completely understand you’d want to get it right first time!I wasn’t sure about increased NVH due to the solid top mounts though- the Nitrons re-use the OE top mounts.
However, I haven’t read any feedback on BC from Aston owners and I’ve had LOTS of positive feedback on the Nitrons. I can’t afford to do this twice, so I played safe.
Edited by Nigel_O on Saturday 23 September 09:35
Enjoy the car when you get it back!
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