Inspired or idiotic? "Cheap" V8 Vantage

Inspired or idiotic? "Cheap" V8 Vantage

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Shnozz

27,478 posts

271 months

Wednesday 27th September 2023
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Jhonno said:
Megaflow said:
Nigel_O said:
As I expected, there were a few extras on the invoice. A couple of snapped ARB bracket bolts, requiring the chassis to be helicoiled (£380), a rear toe arm had to be cut out of the subframe (£476), differential oil breather and filter (filter not done by BR when they changed the diff oil… - £430). Rear wishbone bushes were knackered, so replaced with Powerflex (£475). Gearbox oil cooler pipes were another big ‘extra’ (£960). Handbrake pads were crumbling (£60), geo setup is £175 and a whole host of brackets, nuts, bolts, springs, clips and general sundries - another £380. That’s almost £2.5k on stuff I wasn’t fully expecting. It’s really scary just how quickly ‘extras’ mount up.

All in, a rather hefty £9,263.76.

On top of that, I have to pay the government to be allowed to spend my own money, so VAT takes it to £11,116.51. What’s REALLY worrying is that I had £11,150 in my ‘Aston big bills’ account - how did DAE know?…..

To soften the blow very slightly, I’ll have a couple of bits to sell. The OE rear springs were powder coated before we realised I couldn’t find any replacement fronts and we would have to fit Nitron springs. I’ve also asked DAE to fit a pair of Brembo rear discs, as my BR Rotors two-piece discs didn’t turn up in time - the Brembos will be removed as soon as I get the two-piece discs, so someone will get a bargain.

I’ve surprised myself at just how relaxed I am about it. I knew the work would need doing eventually when I bought the car, and I had the money set aside. I had hoped to get away with it for a bit longer, and my research into the costs of suspension and subframe was clearly flawed, as I thought I’d get away with £3k for suspension and £2k for the subframe. Anyone that’s been reading this thread from the start will remember that I’m not ‘well-off’, so £11k is not something that can just be shrugged off easily. I’ll have to start saving again to rebuild the emergency fund.

I guess the thread title needs to change - “cheap” no longer seems to fit the description. That said, I now have a warm glow of satisfaction that the car is absolutely sorted.

Until the next bill…..
Fcensoredking Hell!!!

That bill is making me question my plans to buy one and scratch my itch next year...

scratchchin
I would imagine there is a fair bit of labour in there..
And also broadly the same as the cost my mate had to sort the bore scoring on a cayman S a few years back at Hartech…

S1-NOS

114 posts

76 months

Wednesday 27th September 2023
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This thread brings back memories of my 56 plate Vantage….

Car was mint. Had a very pampered life, 34k on the clock. Drove without fault. Was due a 3rd service in my ownership so took it to BR expecting a £700 bill. Battery failed when it was there so that was another £200 straight away. Then I got presented with the faults… rear damper leaking, £1k each and you need a pair. Wishbone bushes worn, couldn’t get replacement bushes back then (2 yrs ago), so quoted for 8 replacement bushes starting at £350 each, plus fitting, plus geo. Call it £4K. A/C condenser leaking, £800. Corrosion around door handle, couple of £k to sort. Drove home £900 lighter knowing it would take £10k to make my car perfect and thought “nah”. Was sold the next month. Shame as the part prices kind of ruined the experience but until that point it cost me nothing other than regular servicing.

Fair play for sticking with it Nigel. Hope it gives you many trouble free years now!

Nigel_O

Original Poster:

2,890 posts

219 months

Thursday 28th September 2023
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When I collected the car yesterday, all I did was 150 motorway miles to get home. It was grey and drizzly, as well as hitting rush hour around Birmingham as it got dark. Not the best conditions to be exploring the capabilities of new suspension.

Today was warm-ish and dry and I needed to travel to Uttoxeter to collect some bike bits. This involves one of my favourite twisty roads - the B5013 from Rugeley, across Blithfield reservoir, then on from Abbots Bromley to Uttoxeter. The first section to the reservoir is narrow, very bumpy and off-camber in places. Previously, I had to drive this at under 5/10, as the damping was quickly overwhelmed and the spring rate just couldn't cope with the repeated bumps. If I tried to make better progress, I could feel the rear wheels chattering across the tarmac toward the verge, as the damping couldn't keep up. The second section from Abbots Bromley to Uttoxeter is more open, very flowing, well-surfaced, but its a bit undulating. I used to be able to drive it at up to 7/10, but there were a few tricky corners, with crests just before or after that demanded respect.

Don't get me wrong - 5/10 in a Vantage is still making pretty good progress compared with other traffic, but I never felt like the car could go any faster without needing a couple of brave pills.

Today was a revelation - I was clearing bumpy bends at 5/10 as though they were smooth. It was definitely still bumpy, but the wheels were simply sticking to the surface. When I got to the more open section, the speed increased a bit (OK, a lot...) but it just felt planted and in control.

I guess its not surprising really - upgrading to brand new Nitrons from 16 year old Dynamics with a broken spring was always going to yield good results and I knew it was going to feel a lot better, but I wasn't ready for the scale of the improvement.

So - no great surprise, but it's a big thumbs up for Nitron suspension. I guess Billies might have been even better, but I suspect there's a law of diminishing returns at play, so I wasn't willing to throw £7+k at the suspension when I got away with 'only' £4k-ish

Sofa

429 posts

92 months

Friday 29th September 2023
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Nigel_O said:
My neighbour has recently bought a nearly-new T-Roc R, which I estimate will have been £30k - £35k. I'm sure its very nice to drive, will do 30+ mpg, won't cost a £1k+ a year in basic servicing and it will probably be ultra-reliable compared with a 16 year old Aston. It almost certainly won't throw a five-figure bill any time soon. However, it's a modestly-quick four-pot VW mini-SUV and in ten years time, it will be worth half of its current value (if that). I just couldn't do it...
To add some belated salve to the wound of a near £12k bill... you say your neighbour's T-Roc R is presumably nice to drive but I've driven one and it was ste. It also wasn't very good on fuel- on a fairly economical motorway run it returned the nearly the same mpg as my 3.0 125i would've with some 'enthusiastic' driving on the same route.

Wonderful, wonderful car, and with the sorted rear subframe and suspension bits it must be a cracking drive. Always loved these Vantages, they seem like a good balance between having some character but also being a genuinely good car to drive- and probably the peak of Aston Martin design since the DB5.

IainWhy

278 posts

152 months

Friday 29th September 2023
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Nigel_O said:
As I expected, there were a few extras on the invoice. A couple of snapped ARB bracket bolts, requiring the chassis to be helicoiled (£380), a rear toe arm had to be cut out of the subframe (£476), differential oil breather and filter (filter not done by BR when they changed the diff oil… - £430). Rear wishbone bushes were knackered, so replaced with Powerflex (£475). Gearbox oil cooler pipes were another big ‘extra’ (£960). Handbrake pads were crumbling (£60), geo setup is £175 and a whole host of brackets, nuts, bolts, springs, clips and general sundries - another £380. That’s almost £2.5k on stuff I wasn’t fully expecting. It’s really scary just how quickly ‘extras’ mount up.

All in, a rather hefty £9,263.76.

On top of that, I have to pay the government to be allowed to spend my own money, so VAT takes it to £11,116.51. What’s REALLY worrying is that I had £11,150 in my ‘Aston big bills’ account - how did DAE know?…..

To soften the blow very slightly, I’ll have a couple of bits to sell. The OE rear springs were powder coated before we realised I couldn’t find any replacement fronts and we would have to fit Nitron springs. I’ve also asked DAE to fit a pair of Brembo rear discs, as my BR Rotors two-piece discs didn’t turn up in time - the Brembos will be removed as soon as I get the two-piece discs, so someone will get a bargain.

I’ve surprised myself at just how relaxed I am about it. I knew the work would need doing eventually when I bought the car, and I had the money set aside. I had hoped to get away with it for a bit longer, and my research into the costs of suspension and subframe was clearly flawed, as I thought I’d get away with £3k for suspension and £2k for the subframe. Anyone that’s been reading this thread from the start will remember that I’m not ‘well-off’, so £11k is not something that can just be shrugged off easily. I’ll have to start saving again to rebuild the emergency fund.

I guess the thread title needs to change - “cheap” no longer seems to fit the description. That said, I now have a warm glow of satisfaction that the car is absolutely sorted.

Until the next bill…..
Some of those to me look odd.

1 filter in gearbox is just a mesh, you can just wash it.
2 the breather is just 30mm of steel tube (i replaced mine with a john guest fitting)
3 the Arb mounts to the subframe, not the chassis, being that this is the case, they should be helicoiled, they should have a new nut, if its the front, then yes that are in the front subframe, but are helicoled as standard so just put another one in? i had to when i had mine apart, took minutes, cost pennies.
4 cutting the toe arms? its just a bolt, Its absolutely a thing but a 500 quid thing, not so much.

Anyway glad your sorted but i would be questioning some of those costs tbh.

Nigel_O

Original Poster:

2,890 posts

219 months

Friday 29th September 2023
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IainWhy said:
Some of those to me look odd.

1 filter in gearbox is just a mesh, you can just wash it.
2 the breather is just 30mm of steel tube (i replaced mine with a john guest fitting)
3 the Arb mounts to the subframe, not the chassis, being that this is the case, they should be helicoiled, they should have a new nut, if its the front, then yes that are in the front subframe, but are helicoled as standard so just put another one in? i had to when i had mine apart, took minutes, cost pennies.
4 cutting the toe arms? its just a bolt, Its absolutely a thing but a 500 quid thing, not so much.

Anyway glad your sorted but i would be questioning some of those costs tbh.
Fair observations - my answers:

1) The diff oil filter housing was cracked (missed by BR, despite them changing the diff oil) - the replacement cost inclued the filter and the plastic housing - OE parts, obviously.
2) The diff oil breather sometimes seizes in the gearbox housing. If it comes out cleanly, its a £35 part. If it seizes, it's still a £35 part, but it takes 2+ hours of labour
3) My mistake - I mis-read James' message. It was the front ARB mounting bolts seized into the front subframe - they needed drilling out and helicoiling
4) The bolt was seized solid in the rear toe arm bush. Cutting the bolt gets the arm out of the subframe, but I still needed a new toe arm, plus new nut & bolt.

I agree that £380 + VAT to drill out a couple of bolts and insert new helicoils is a bit strong, but I have no idea how long it took I guess it could easily be 1 - 2 hours per side. I only know it would have taken me a LOT longer and I would probably have ended up scrapping the subframe....

Nigel_O

Original Poster:

2,890 posts

219 months

Monday 16th October 2023
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Back in January 2022, after a couple of months of ownership, I wrote this in my opening post:

a delusional Nigel_O said:
I have a feeling it is going to break my heart (and my wallet) at some point, with a hefty unexpected bill. I'm budgeting £1k a year for maintenance and I have a decent reserve for the inevitable big bill....
Last weekend saw the second anniversary of me buying the car and it rewarded me with a failed windscreen washer pump. RRP is close to £200 but I’ve got it down to ‘only’ £44. I fully expect to find a FoMoCo or Volvo symbol on the pump when it arrives, which means I should have been able to get it for <£20.

Also, seeing as I’ve just had my second anniversary of owning the car, I thought I’d own up to the expenditure.

Prior to the ‘big refurb’, I was doing OK at about £8k total expenditure. A lot of this was voluntary, for example spending £275 on mats, £180 on a boot carpet and £800 on a big-disc conversion at the front, instead of £400 on OE one-piece discs.

However, ‘the inevitable big bill’ was the suspension and subframe, which by the time I’d fitted two-piece discs at the rear, turned into a £12k job.

That takes the spend to a gnat’s over £20k in two years, or a little over £800 a month….

There’s no way to make that sound any better - I’ve spent £20k on a £30k car and I’ll be lucky if it’s worth much more than I paid for it.

However - the plus points….

1) I could have spent £800pm on a lease car - it would have been a fairly special car for that much, but in another 12 months, I’d be giving it back with nothing to show for the outlay.

2) The car is now much more future-proof. I’m hoping I’ll be here in 12 months saying I’ve only spent another few hundred on it, which would bring the average annual costs down by about a third.

3) The car now drives REALLY well - handling is spot-on and I have the warm glow that everything underneath is shiny black, not flaky brown.

My quote above was partly right and partly wrong. Yes, it broke my wallet and emptied my reserve account. I was hopelessly optimistic about the £1k pa. Even without the optional spends and the big refurb, I’d still be looking at £2k - £3k pa.However, I just don’t care - my heart still soars every time I go for a drive in it - I’m as smitten now as I was the day I collected it, but now I’m smitten AND broke…



adean22

247 posts

30 months

Monday 16th October 2023
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Just come across this and what a great thread and what a lovely car. I'm happy to see the car has had lots of work done to it regardless of cost.

I find the last post particularly interesting as I weighed up on of these instead of my 911 . Without your optional spends and refurb it would sit the maintenance cost similar to the maintenance costs of my car (both are the same age) . Which isn't too bad for the Aston considering it was a fair chunk dearer than a 911 when both were new.

Jhonno

5,774 posts

141 months

Monday 16th October 2023
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Nigel_O said:
1) I could have spent £800pm on a lease car - it would have been a fairly special car for that much, but in another 12 months, I’d be giving it back with nothing to show for the outlay.

2) The car is now much more future-proof. I’m hoping I’ll be here in 12 months saying I’ve only spent another few hundred on it, which would bring the average annual costs down by about a third.

3) The car now drives REALLY well - handling is spot-on and I have the warm glow that everything underneath is shiny black, not flaky brown.

My quote above was partly right and partly wrong. Yes, it broke my wallet and emptied my reserve account. I was hopelessly optimistic about the £1k pa. Even without the optional spends and the big refurb, I’d still be looking at £2k - £3k pa.However, I just don’t care - my heart still soars every time I go for a drive in it - I’m as smitten now as I was the day I collected it, but now I’m smitten AND broke…
2 of the most important points you made there..

Having just had a large outlay (comparative) for the 85% refresh of my E46 chassis, I can relate. It cost me 2-3 lease payments on a new car, and it drives so well after it puts a smile on my face. Something a modern car has never done for me.

Aluminati

2,504 posts

58 months

Monday 16th October 2023
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Nigel_O said:
- I’m as smitten now as I was the day I collected it, but now I’m smitten AND broke…
You only live once. Enjoy .

JJJ.

1,247 posts

15 months

Monday 16th October 2023
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Nigel_O said:
There’s no way to make that sound any better - I’ve spent £20k on a £30k car and I’ll be lucky if it’s worth much more than I paid for it.
It's all relative. If you're 'comfortable' spending on it, what the hell. I've done similar, admittedly not 20k in two years. And as you mentioned, without any major expenditure over the next couple years it's not near as bad as it seems. The lease comparison is a fair point to a degree but a more relevant point is the journey with the car in the sense of buying, maintaining, upgrading and obviously driving. Hard to put a price on that from an enthusiasts view point.
Keep on rocking! thumbup


Tom4398cc

257 posts

34 months

Tuesday 17th October 2023
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“There’s no way to make that sound any better - I’ve spent £20k on a £30k car and I’ll be lucky if it’s worth much more than I paid for it.”

Does it help, Nigel-O, to know that there are people out there who are much worse at car economics? I think I might be able to claim the Village Idiot title for spending £20k on repairs and maintenance over 5 years on a car I bought for £4,500 and is now worth maybe £1,000 (ahem, if it has a full tank of V Power).

Vsix and Vtec

629 posts

18 months

Tuesday 17th October 2023
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The price of love, Nij. I'm trying to ignore the fact my post-purchase spend is creeping towards a similar margin on my XK. four new tyres, four new brake hoses, gearbox oil filter, a proper service, front and rear pads and discs, plus i've been advised i need about £2k spending on the rear suspension arms and bushes. Admittedly the pads,discs and tyres are my choice rather than a real need, but I want it right for the winter. I can console myself it only cost me £13k on the First place I suppose.

But. It's the car I wanted. It's nothing like making back the outlay, it's a big V8 petrol coupe, the value of it is only going to get less. That doesn't stop me looking back at it when I've parked, or getting heads turning when I arrive at an event or party. I dare say it's much the same I not more so in your gorgeous Aston.

Nigel_O

Original Poster:

2,890 posts

219 months

Sunday 22nd October 2023
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I guess it’s the same with any car - there are times when you’re trying to do something without possession of quite enough knowledge to do the job. Learning as you go is all part of the voyage of discovery and I normally enjoy learning about how stuff works as I tinker with a car.

So this morning, I set about checking what I suspected would be a disconnected connector or chopped wire to the windscreen washer pump - I mean, how hard can it be?

Trolley jack out, offside front wheel off, faffed around with various torx bolts and screws and eventually got the wheel arch liner out of the way. Wiring looked OK, so I tested the voltage at the pump connector - zero volts. Hmmm - at least that suggests that it’s not the pump that’s dead (just as well at £180+)

Next - check the voltage at the fuse (the fuse was blown when I checked it, so there has definitely been voltage there. Still zero volts. I’m running out of ideas and patience now, so I put a post in the Aston sub-forum of PH and then put everything back together.

A couple of hours later, I check for answers to my post and find out a simple, but important fact that might have helped - none of the windscreen wiper functions (including the screen wash) work when the bonnet is open…..

Explains the zero volts then!

I’ll try again tomorrow….

Waitey

878 posts

222 months

Monday 23rd October 2023
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What spring rates did you go for?

Court_S

12,946 posts

177 months

Monday 23rd October 2023
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Good to hear that the suspension refresh was worth it….a big bill, but it sounds like it’s bought a good improvement to the car. Yes, you won’t get the money back at sale time, but there’s no guarantee that a newer car for £50k isn’t going to bite you in the arse either. Hopefully that’ll be it for a while which will then bring down the yearly running average.

Stuff like M3’s, RS6’s etc can chuck up some massive bills too.

I don’t think you’re a million miles away from me given the roads that you mention.

Nigel_O

Original Poster:

2,890 posts

219 months

Monday 23rd October 2023
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Waitey said:
What spring rates did you go for?
No idea - I just went with DAE’s recommendations. It rides fairly firmly, but quite acceptable.

MTW

448 posts

40 months

Tuesday 24th October 2023
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Great read, it’s great to get a real insight into owning one of these. I have always had my eye on these in the classifieds over the years and thought “what a lovely car for not much money” but you forget about parts prices and their ability to throw a big bill at you.

But it seems now with all the suspension and underside work done you will have a very well sorted example! Enjoy!

Mr-B

3,780 posts

194 months

Tuesday 24th October 2023
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MTW said:
Great read, it’s great to get a real insight into owning one of these. I have always had my eye on these in the classifieds over the years and thought “what a lovely car for not much money” but you forget about parts prices and their ability to throw a big bill at you.

But it seems now with all the suspension and underside work done you will have a very well sorted example! Enjoy!
Ditto.

Thanks for the insight to ownership, a manual V8S is still on my wishlist, one day.

irish boy

3,535 posts

236 months

Wednesday 25th October 2023
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Missed this thread the first time round, Great effort and a superb looking car!